Athlon XP2200+ $143 OEM 0.13 process

[SimMike2]

http://vcool.occludo.net/ Here is the correct link for the cooler program. I have always been disappointed that something like CPU Idle never worked with my T-bird. With Intel chips it was always dramatic, lowering the CPU during idle by at least 10 C.

Just tried it and it works! Temperature dropped from 49C to 42C in a couple of minutes. I think it will even go lower. This is an excellent free program that actually can replace something like Motherboard monitor because it puts a temp icon in your system tray. Nice find!!!!!!!

I decided to overclock my 1.2 to 1.33 and right now after settling down for a little while, my temp is 39C which is a wopping 10 degrees less and the CPU is overclocked.

BTW, it says limited support for AMD 761, which is what I have, but it works fine.

 

[Vic]

Do NOT run Vcool or any other temp cooling (aka Halt code) program with your AMD cpus.
All it does is reduce your idle temps dramatically while your load temps stay the same. Because of this, it causes a drastic difference between the two temps that is WAY outside AMD spec and actually will damage your cpu over time. This is why AMD purposefully designed their cpus to have a less than 10C difference between idle and load temps. By using Vcool (or similar program), you are actually shortening the life of your processor.
The important part of your AMD cpu temps is not necessarily that they are low. I have seen old Tbirds running consistenly and strong at 60C for 2 years going now (and Tbirds themselves are only 2 years old). As long as the temps stay less than AMD's recommended of 70C and the cpu is stable, then the only important thing is that the cpu temps are consistent. It is dramatically changing temps that will damage your cpu.
Let's be clear about this, most of you have no clue of what you are talking about (for example the only time an aircooled AMD cpu runs at 24C is when it is off). Your AMD cpu was designed to run for at least 10 years while at 100% load and a core temp of 70C. That is the spec that AMD uses. If you're OC'ing, you might want to be a little more careful about temps, but anything under 50C and 1.85v is generally safe for extended usage and a relatively long life.

As for the Hot Deal, I suggest waiting until you know that the cpu will be the new Tbred "B"

 

[may]

Originally posted by: PSYWVic
Do NOT run Vcool or any other temp cooling (aka Halt code) program with your AMD cpus. All it does is reduce your idle temps dramatically while your load temps stay the same. Because of this, it causes a drastic difference between the two temps that is WAY outside AMD spec and actually will damage your cpu over time. This is why AMD purposefully designed their cpus to have a less than 10C difference between idle and load temps. By using Vcool (or similar program), you are actually shortening the life of your processor. The important part of your AMD cpu temps is not necessarily that they are low. I have seen old Tbirds running consistenly and strong at 60C for 2 years going now (and Tbirds themselves are only 2 years old). As long as the temps stay less than AMD's recommended of 70C and the cpu is stable, then the only important thing is that the cpu temps are consistent. It is dramatically changing temps that will damage your cpu. Let's be clear about this, most of you have no clue of what you are talking about (for example the only time an aircooled AMD cpu runs at 24C is when it is off). Your AMD cpu was designed to run for at least 10 years while at 100% load and a core temp of 70C. That is the spec that AMD uses. If you're OC'ing, you might want to be a little more careful about temps, but anything under 50C and 1.85v is generally safe for extended usage and a relatively long life. As for the Hot Deal, I suggest waiting until you know that the cpu will be the new Tbred "B"

That is interesting. Do you have any articles from AMD or Intel to backup your point?

 

[Kelvrick]

Those are some hot temperatures. My CPU runs at about 32c idle and 36-57c full load. I'm runnin an Athlon XP1800 with a coolermaster HHC-001 heatpipe with an 80mm fan adaptor and a 65cfm fan on there. I have an aluminum case with a total of 80cfm intake, 60cfm outtake and a variable speed 92mm fan in addition to the outtake. I have 1 80gb seagate 7200, 1 45gb maxtor 7200, 1 16x dvd, 1 12x cd-rw.

Before, when I had a total of 120cfm intake, I've had a cpu temp of 32c and a system temp of 32c. On full load, 34c and a system temp of 32c. :Q

<== cool cpu monkey dance

EDIT: Oh yea, the guy with the t-bird 1.4. That's the hottest running athlon out there. If you're not upgrading because you're afraid of heat, then you're waiting for the wrong reason.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: may
That is interesting. Do you have any articles from AMD or Intel to backup your point?

From AMD Thermal, Mechanical, and Chassis Cooling Design Guide White Paper (right click, Save As if necessary), page 36 (at the bottom):

"Maintain a Delta T <= 7C"

edit: AFAIK, maintaining a low Delta between idle and load temps is an AMD issue only. Why would anyone want to brag about idle temps anyway?? Low load temps are what is important.
Kelvrick, yes those are high temps I used as examples. They were several older Gateway 800-1100MHz Athlon systems I worked on that were built way outside AMD thermal spec (i.e. inadequate HSF, case airflow, PSU blowing hot air INTO the case, etc). My point was that Athlons can run consistenly for very extended periods at very hot temps (up to 70C per AMD) without damage and still remain stable.

 

[onelove]

Originally posted by: yumyum
I have a 60 mm fan on. After reading all the messages on this post, I am pretty sure the sensor on my motherboard is defective.

you might want to check & see if the little sensor under the chip is bent over too far to make contact. (careful not to break those thin wires in the process) Might also consider slapping some thermal grease on the sensor- I did this & nothing died. Also see if the bios is giving you different readings for temp between sensors - might give you a clue what's up.

Please somebody speak up if the above is a bad idea.

 

[LordSnailz]

any suggestions on whether to go with the nwd 1.6a and overclock to 2.5 or get the xp2200, prices are comparable.
tia!

 

[hasu]

From AMD Thermal, Mechanical, and Chassis Cooling Design Guide White Paper (right click, Save As if necessary), page 36 (at the bottom):
"Maintain a Delta T <= 7C"

But what is delta T?

On Page 33 there is a diagram depicting the normal airflow within a vertical ATX case. External ambient temperature is denoted as T1 and local ambient temperature (around CPU) is denoted as T2. Delta T = T2-T1. It does not seem to have anything to do with the time variation of CPU temperature itself.

Since the CPU is going into low power mode and full power mode (almost alternatively?) in periods of the order of milli seconds or micro seconds, it might not have any effect on thermal expansion of the die or other circuits large enough to cause any physical damage. Any clock cycles within a digital ckt itself will drive current (and hence heat) between 0 and max.

BTW, I am using vcool since I read the first post about it and my otherwise hot t-bird (1.4) is running 10-12 deg lower during normal operation. "Idle loop" is not enabled when not throttling. I tried various things like playing and recording audio, capturing digital video thru firewire etc to find any effect. So far so good.. I have not faced ANY problem. I am VERY happy with vcool. I dont care even if my CPU fails because of that.. that'll give me a good reason to go for 2200XP ;-) AMD rocks!!!

(Edit: This is just to share my thoughts and experience with vcool. I do not advice anybody to use vcool or otherwise)

 

[Mage]

These probably won't OC worth crap if they're not the recently released "Revision B"....

 

[Vic]

hasu, Delta T (my work comp won't do the greek delta symbol, or triangle), means change in temperature.

Essentially, AMD is stating that the difference in temps between idle and load should be less than or equal to 7 degrees C. Thermal expansion and contraction in the die is probably the biggest reason for this. Also, going from a pure STPGNT idle (vCool style) to instant full load can cause issues with some parts of the proc heating up faster than others, sudden voltage changes (depending on mobo and power supply), etc. So in addition to possibly shortening the life of your cpu because of thermal expansion/contraction issues, it also makes your cpu less stable. This is why vCool's forums are littered with people complaining of lockups, bugs, incompatibility, and lower performance.
AMD purposefully designed your cpu the way they did for a reason. This isn't like cars and blenders with "engineered obsolesence." AMD and Intel want their cpus to last as long as possible because: (1) people don't buy new cpus because the old one died, they buy new cpus in order to "upgrade," (2) ANY lack of reliability could cause a customer to switch to the competiting brand.

Getting low load temps in order to get that fastest OC is one thing. Shortening your cpus life and damaging its performance and stability in order to get low idle temps (while your load temps stay the same) is just plain stupid.

 

[shortnugly]

Originally posted by: Mage
These probably won't OC worth crap if they're not the recently released "Revision B"....

How do you know this?

And how would you tell if they're the revision B?

 

[cheapgoose]

I thought only the 2400xp, 2600xp and beyond will be rev B.

 

[yumyum]

I agree with PSYWVic.

Having cool temperature at cpu idle means nothing. The important temperature is at load.

It's like me getting something for my car to cool it down during idle speed. It doesn' do jack!!!

 

[hasu]

(Though, we are discussing this in wrong forum)

Delta T (my work comp won't do the greek delta symbol, or triangle), means change in temperature.
Essentially, AMD is stating that the difference in temps between idle and load should be less than or equal to 7 degrees C.

Definition of delta T as per the AMD doc is different.

Getting low load temps in order to get that fastest OC is one thing. Shortening your cpus life and damaging its performance and stability in order to get low idle temps (while your load temps stay the same) is just plain stupid.

I have more of scientific interest in it and my intention is to know the fact rather than a debate. I do not know much about CPU or thin-film technology.
It would be great if anybody knowledgeable/experieced in the relevant field can comment on it.