ATI 4850 TEMPERATURE discussion

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Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
18
81
Originally posted by: Mucker
think about it, a fanless S1 is dead quiet for one and quiet is a great thing for HTPC. And crossfire with 2 noiseless S1's in the living room is a huge plus.

I'll take running a loaded gpu at 55C over 90C any day of the week.

But otherwise you are correct, if it works for you, no need to bother.

I wasn't trying to be a smartass. I just figure with the warranty it isn't much of an issue. I agree that the quiet factor could be awesome and I am actually thinking about it more for the noise reduction than the cooling. I am just not sure if I want to void the warranty on the card, especially if I decide to pick up another one for crossfire....once I figure out exactly how that works and if it is or any real benefit to me. I am old...you have to give me a while to catch up.
 

RamIt

Senior member
Nov 12, 2001
777
186
116
Originally posted by: Ronstang
If the card is VisionTek and comes with a lifetime guarantee and is performing flawlessly why should I give a hoot about the temp?

Because it got to 101* here yesterday and was 95* in the house.
The card crashed 3 times because of the heat. If you live in an ac'ed environmment then you wont have a problem.

Sucks I have to use aftermarket cooling but I do have a Zalman vf700 to try on it. Just got to get the PWM areas figured out first.

 

Hauk

Platinum Member
Nov 22, 2001
2,806
0
0
Thanks Mucker for posting the S1 info! I like the PWM heatsink mod. Fishing the CF bridges through the S1 was a nice trick too. I was thinking a long bridge cable would be required.

You mentioned using existing thermal pads for the ram sinks. Won't the ram sinks fall off?
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
Originally posted by: SteelSix
Originally posted by: shangshang

Curious to know why ATI engineers decided to run it at low fan speed? The engineers MUST have their reason, right? I pray they did enough testing so we don't become their field test subjects down the road. Somehow, I feel very uneasy about this.

A few reasons, cost being the primary one. Consider too, the GPU is the same as found on the 4870. Funny how there are no shader or fan speed adjustments, and CCC is limited to 700 core. You want the card to perform, but not to compete with the 4870. If you look at all the variables, it's obvious they want the card to perform but not to encroach.

Even with aftermarket cooling, you're gonna have to dick with third party software to get a nice oc. Heat plays a major role in where this card is positioned. They're not stupid, it's not an oversight. It's by design...

I think you are right on with this. Isn't it interesting how much people can get the temps to drop by putting on after market cooling? I have never heard of such drastic drops in temps before.
 

Hauk

Platinum Member
Nov 22, 2001
2,806
0
0
Originally posted by: RamIt
Sucks I have to use aftermarket cooling but I do have a Zalman vf700 to try on it. Just got to get the PWM areas figured out first.

Use the ramsinks on the PWM's instead. The memory will be cooled sufficiently with the air blowing from the VF700. Many cards with DDR3 don't even have sinks installed on the memory.

You should be able to use 1 each mem sink for each of the light grey dudes, and arrange the rest so they cover all the little black PWM's.

MAKING SURE RAMSINKS STICK THE FIRST TIME AROUND:
People clean and clean the memory surfaces and still can't understand why the sinks fall off. It's the thermal tape. First time it gets warm it softens and that's when real bonding begins. Unfortunalty that's also when card is upside down in your PC. Solution, heat them up!

Apply ramsinks a couple at a time. With hairdryer, blow some heat on them to get the adhesive nice and warm, then press down on them for a couple minutes in which the adhesive will cool and bond.

Repeat procedure for the next couple. Why only a couple at a time? Because you can only press down on so many as you're holding the card, and you have to press down on them as soon as you remove the heat. Hope that makes sense.

After you've applied all ramsinks, let sit for an hour, then give them all some heat again. This time just press each one for a couple seconds, alternating until the sinks are cool again. Let adhesive cure for 3-4 hours then apply GPU heatsink. You should be good to go.

It's time consuming but worth the trouble..
 

Hauk

Platinum Member
Nov 22, 2001
2,806
0
0
Originally posted by: spittledip
Originally posted by: SteelSix
Originally posted by: shangshang

Curious to know why ATI engineers decided to run it at low fan speed? The engineers MUST have their reason, right? I pray they did enough testing so we don't become their field test subjects down the road. Somehow, I feel very uneasy about this.

A few reasons, cost being the primary one. Consider too, the GPU is the same as found on the 4870. Funny how there are no shader or fan speed adjustments, and CCC is limited to 700 core. You want the card to perform, but not to compete with the 4870. If you look at all the variables, it's obvious they want the card to perform but not to encroach.

Even with aftermarket cooling, you're gonna have to dick with third party software to get a nice oc. Heat plays a major role in where this card is positioned. They're not stupid, it's not an oversight. It's by design...

I think you are right on with this. Isn't it interesting how much people can get the temps to drop by putting on after market cooling? I have never heard of such drastic drops in temps before.

I forgot to mention voltage. Deprive it of the power needed for high clock speeds on one board, supply it with that power on another board. Same GPU on steroids..
 

Mucker

Platinum Member
Apr 28, 2001
2,833
0
0
Originally posted by: SteelSix
Thanks Mucker for posting the S1 info! I like the PWM heatsink mod. Fishing the CF bridges through the S1 was a nice trick too. I was thinking a long bridge cable would be required.

You mentioned using existing thermal pads for the ram sinks. Won't the ram sinks fall off?

Well, i wondered about that to begin with but the pads seem to be pretty sticky. I pressed down on each sink for about 30 seconds and they don't seem to want to move. I'll check them over the next week, but as of now they don't seem to be going anywhere.

I am not too worried about the memory temperature. I may use adhesive epoxy on them (after I purchase some), the warranty is obviously shot with the hackage.

The mod is well worth the risk for me though.

It baffles me why ATI doesn't push more air through the stock sink. Since I have 2 cards, I can watch the one without the Accelero building up heat to its' max idle temp of 80C over a period of 5 minutes. The one with the Accelero builds to 38C in about 15 seconds and just stays there.

The stock cooler is nothing but a passive cooler with an red spinning impostor onboard.
 

Mucker

Platinum Member
Apr 28, 2001
2,833
0
0
Originally posted by: SteelSix
Fishing the CF bridges through the S1 was a nice trick too. I was thinking a long bridge cable would be required.

Do they even make a long crossfire bridge? I know AC has a long SLI available but I could have swore I read on their site a while back that they couldn't supply them because of copyright infringement with ATI.

It's obvious ATI discourages 3rd party cooling with this tactic and warranty policies. So yeah, the theory of limiting this cards performance may in fact be true.
 

PG

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 1999
3,426
44
91
Originally posted by: Mucker
Originally posted by: SteelSix
Fishing the CF bridges through the S1 was a nice trick too. I was thinking a long bridge cable would be required.

Do they even make a long crossfire bridge? I know AC has a long SLI available but I could have swore I read on their site a while back that they couldn't supply them because of copyright infringement with ATI.

It's obvious ATI discourages 3rd party cooling with this tactic and warranty policies. So yeah, the theory of limiting this cards performance may in fact be true.
Long crossfire bridges are not necessary. Somebody on another forum had pictures of how he ran one between the fins for his crossfire setup.



 

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
6,298
23
81
Two questions about the S1.

First, you saw temps drop from 78C to 38C without using a fan on this thing at all?

Second, how high above the card does the S1 stand once mounted?

I want to make sure it'll clear the side of my case before I buy one. Or, I might just return my 4850 and wait for the 4870, we'll see.

Thanks!
 

ChronoReverse

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,562
31
91
One thing I like about the GFxchilla is that it's very compact. With it you won't have to worry about clearance.
 

Mucker

Platinum Member
Apr 28, 2001
2,833
0
0
Originally posted by: Denithor
Two questions about the S1.

First, you saw temps drop from 78C to 38C without using a fan on this thing at all?

Second, how high above the card does the S1 stand once mounted?

I want to make sure it'll clear the side of my case before I buy one. Or, I might just return my 4850 and wait for the 4870, we'll see.

Thanks!

Yes, 40C without a fan. I know it's hard to believe but it's true. I saw similiar results with a 3870 and the stock cooler on that was much better than the 4850.

The 3870 with stock idled at 52C.

Load temp 3870 with fanless Accelero was 47C. The S1 has been that good for me.

Thickness is nearly the same as any double slotted HSF, and height of 1+7/8 inches from the edge of the card. About 3/4" to 1" from the side door of my Antec 900. Length shorter than card.

I actually picked up a second one for my other card fro SVC for $30 shipped: http://www.svc.com/fan-acces1.html
 

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
6,298
23
81
Yeah, I found the one at SVC also, haven't ordered yet as I have to make sure the top will clear the case door. I also haven't really made up my mind yet about keeping this 4850 vs getting a 4870 instead...

But thanks indeed for the mini-guide to modding the card to mount the S1, will be quite helpful if I decide to go this route!
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
Adding to that, it has a completely different PCB layout at the back to accomodate the new GDDR5s. Lovely stuff. Some of those components are very high quality. Could end up expensive but we will see about that.
 

masterosok

Member
Apr 30, 2003
140
1
81
I see the cooler comes with both ramsink and 2 Regulator Heat Spreaders. Will these suffice for the HD 4850.... does anyone have their HD 4850 successfully equipped with these. I have heard on other other forums that you need an additional set of ramsinks/heat spreaders for the PWMs however I do not want to have to order anything else unless I have too.
 

BigMoosey74

Member
Dec 18, 2007
92
0
0
Originally posted by: WiKiD
I haven't received my 4850 yet but i ordered a Zalman VF1000 along with it in case. There is a thread over on hardforums (http://www.hardforum.com/showt...58&highlight=accelero) that shows an Accelero dropping it from 73 to 32 idle and and 88 to 39 load. Don't know the other circumstances of the case it is in but that is pretty impressive.

I think fan control will make quite a difference though. Some people are modding the fan to go 100% and it is dropping the GPU to 61C load.


What? That is an insane temp drop. 7C difference from idle to load?....that doesn't look right......



EDIT:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1261100

Well....I take that back. Just about the same results for the 8800GT with the S1.
 

IQJUMPuw

Senior member
Feb 6, 2002
761
0
0
I'm starting to get worried about my 4850's temperature...
I know it has a lifetime warranty but it's too much of a hassle in case something happens to the video card. Not only do you have to ship the video card to them, you have to wait until they "repair" it or send you a replacement card during which you are left with no video card. I'm thinking about just returning it at BestBuy. 4850 gave me quiet a bit of an improvement over the 8800GT but the card idles at 82C and goes over 90C under heavy load. When I play Age of Conan, there are artifacts during certain scenes.
What should I do? I was so excited about this card and I was amazed at what $150 card could do but the heat problem is really bad. It's like having a heater in my room.
 

Hauk

Platinum Member
Nov 22, 2001
2,806
0
0
Originally posted by: IQJUMPuw
I'm starting to get worried about my 4850's temperature...
I know it has a lifetime warranty but it's too much of a hassle in case something happens to the video card. Not only do you have to ship the video card to them, you have to wait until they "repair" it or send you a replacement card during which you are left with no video card. I'm thinking about just returning it at BestBuy. 4850 gave me quiet a bit of an improvement over the 8800GT but the card idles at 82C and goes over 90C under heavy load. When I play Age of Conan, there are artifacts during certain scenes.
What should I do? I was so excited about this card and I was amazed at what $150 card could do but the heat problem is really bad. It's like having a heater in my room.

The tough part emotionally is that this is a mid level $150 graphics card. Many find it hard to spend aftermarket money money on a budget card. Defeats the whole bang for your buck thing. Overclockers in particular are looking for the cheapest solution that gets the job done. It's part of the process, part of the bragging right with this stuff is how much (or little) you paid.

That mental obstacle becomes less an issue when you're dealing with a $600 graphics card, an investment. The desire to keep it cool becomes a major factor. I was quite comfortable investing in the most expensive cooler available for my old 8800 GTX.

You've already mentioned your first option. The second option, realize that this card is worth every penny you paid and then some. Is it worth investing in an aftermarket cooler? That's completly up to you. Lots of people will give you their two cents; but at the end of the day it's what makes you happy. Personally, I think it's worth the $25 bucks of an S1 cooler. I want a smaller profile cooler however and will probably have to pay a little more.

The final point to this heat matter is tricky to explain but here goes. When you put your hand near the exaust ports of the stock cooler you can feel hot air coming from it. That hot air quickly builds in the case at a rate usually quicker than most exaust systems can contend with. The result, warmer air being exausted. Take the same same card and impliment a highly efficient cooler, one that's able to make the heat exchange rapidly, effectively. The result is a cooler that feels almost cool to the touch, with much cooler air coming off it. No heat buildup you see, the improved cooling solution is more efficient. It can do it's job much more effectively than the stock solution.

You'll often hear people saying, "but I don't want all that heat dumping into my case." Here's what's tricky to understand until you've experienced it, the more effective cooler prevents a heat buildup so the air feels cooler coming off it. It's steady and even, given the case airflow is sufficient. What's sufficient? These days a case with at least three 120mm fans spinning at 1200rpm or better.

This card will feel like a different animal with a better cooling cooling solution. It may tolerate the temps associated with the stock cooler, but clearly with limitations. And for how long? Everything manmade that has moving parts or electronics lasts longer when kept cooler...
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: 9nines
Is the 4870 supposed to have a better heat sink in reference design?

Temps seem just as high on the 4870 ,link. (page 15)

We'll just have to wait for the better cooling solutions coming for the overclocked 4580+ cards etc..unless you want to mod a card yourself with a better cooling option,also once we can change fan speed on the cards that'll help a lot too.
 
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