ATi 4870/4850 Review Thread

[lopri]

You still need to connect both 6-pin adapters. NV used to give warning years ago with GeForce 6 series ("insufficient power to the graphics card..."), but these days you can't boot the system without connecting all the required power. (Both for AMD and NV) Sometimes a card will beep incredibly loud if it's not getting all the power it wants.

 

[NullSubroutine]

Not all 2.0 cards require all the pins to be attached because the 2.0 slot provides more power than the 1.1. The question is whether this is the same for the 4870 only requiring 1 6 pin, not 2 when in the 2.0 slot.

Using hypothetical math numbers here.

1.1 slots give 50 watts of power
2.0 gives 100 wats of power
4870 needs 150 watts of power
6 pin gives 75 watts of power

in 1.1 you need 2 6 pins to supply the 150
in 2.0 you need 1 6 pin to supply the 150

I don't know what the numbers are and AMD isn't going to release a card that will only work with 2.0 boards (thus only having 1 6 pin) they have to include 2 for people who use it in a 1.1 board. I just don't know how much the 2.0 provides, the exact number the 4870 uses, or if the 2.0 even provides enough power to NOT need the 2nd 6 pin adapter. Or it might be like with the 2900 XT that if you put 2 6 pins the card works, but with 1 6 pin and 1 8 pin you can overclock. Then again, it was only 1.1 spec.

Hence why I asked if you need both 6 pins in PCI-E 2.0 boards.

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: NullSubroutine
Does anyone know if you put it in a PCI-E 2.0 slot if both 6 pin connectors are required or if its just one? (Since the 2.0 delivers more power than the 1.1 slots do)

Yes you need 2 connectors regardless.

I had a similar train of thought up until a few weeks ago when I forget who it was (sorry!) that pointed this out to me but it looks like PCI-E 2.0 is capable of 150w from the slot (there are news articles supporting this if you do a quick google search) but in practice I don't think it actually does and that nobody has implemented it. Have a looks at PCI Sig's documentation in particular Q11. Nowhere does it allude or state that 150w from the slot is officially part of PCI-E 2.0.

No matter, most PSU's have at least 2 6 Pin connectors and if not the cards come with Molex adapters anyway (since both Molex and 6 pin PCI-E provide 75 watts).

 

[Elcs]

Not wanting the create a new thread, how do these 4870's compare to the 8800GT for noise?

My BFG 8800GT OC is audible over my system @ 40% fan speed so i set it at 39%. Also, what is it like for heat output compared to a single 8800GT?

My understanding is that it will run cooler and my system in generally will be neglibly cooler due to the bigger fan and 2 slot exhaust design.

Finally, I have an HDMI TV and currently hook up my 8800GT via DVI to HDMI. Would migration to a 4870 be easy by way of cleaning drivers and the communication between the 4870 and the TV being auto-sensed?

 

[NullSubroutine]

Originally posted by: Sylvanas

Originally posted by: NullSubroutine
Does anyone know if you put it in a PCI-E 2.0 slot if both 6 pin connectors are required or if its just one? (Since the 2.0 delivers more power than the 1.1 slots do)

Yes you need 2 connectors regardless.

I had a similar train of thought up until a few weeks ago when I forget who it was (sorry!) that pointed this out to me but it looks like PCI-E 2.0 is capable of 150w from the slot (there are news articles supporting this if you do a quick google search) but in practice I don't think it actually does and that nobody has implemented it. Have a looks at PCI Sig's documentation in particular Q11. Nowhere does it allude or state that 150w from the slot is officially part of PCI-E 2.0.

No matter, most PSU's have at least 2 6 Pin connectors and if not the cards come with Molex adapters anyway (since both Molex and 6 pin PCI-E provide 75 watts).

Well with my PSU I wouldnt have a problem supplying the power to a card let alone two. The problem is I only have 1 6 pin, and 1 6+2 (8 pin) pin. I was trying to decide if I should wait for the R700 or get a new board and do CF. However, if you need 4 6 pin connectors I can't physically do it as I only have 2. And since I just bought this 140 dollar PSU last Sept. I dont really want to spend another 170 dollars so I can get 2 more 6 pins.

If it really requires 2 6 pins (4 for CF) in 2.0 boards then I will have to wait for the R700 and just use my 6 pin and 8 pin to provide power.

 

[Aberforth]

nullsubroutine, why not use a 4pin to 6pin adapter?

 

[NullSubroutine]

Originally posted by: Aberforth
nullsubroutine, why not use a 4pin to 6pin adapter?

Would a 4 pin supply enough power?

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: NullSubroutine

Originally posted by: Aberforth
nullsubroutine, why not use a 4pin to 6pin adapter?

Would a 4 pin supply enough power?

Well, no harm in trying.

http://www.ncix.com/products/i...-4M&manufacture=Others

 

[NullSubroutine]

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: NullSubroutine

Originally posted by: Aberforth
nullsubroutine, why not use a 4pin to 6pin adapter?

Would a 4 pin supply enough power?

Well, no harm in trying.

http://www.ncix.com/products/i...-4M&manufacture=Others

I don't really want to buy a CF motherboard, a new cpu, and 2 4870s then come to find out it wont work...

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: NullSubroutine

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: NullSubroutine

Originally posted by: Aberforth
nullsubroutine, why not use a 4pin to 6pin adapter?

Would a 4 pin supply enough power?

Well, no harm in trying.

http://www.ncix.com/products/i...-4M&manufacture=Others

I don't really want to buy a CF motherboard, a new cpu, and 2 4870s then come to find out it wont work...

Maybe your PSU is not designed for two 4870's, one would probably work- I don't know for sure, never used a adpater myself but many say it works.

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: NullSubroutine

Originally posted by: Sylvanas

Originally posted by: NullSubroutine
Does anyone know if you put it in a PCI-E 2.0 slot if both 6 pin connectors are required or if its just one? (Since the 2.0 delivers more power than the 1.1 slots do)

Yes you need 2 connectors regardless.

I had a similar train of thought up until a few weeks ago when I forget who it was (sorry!) that pointed this out to me but it looks like PCI-E 2.0 is capable of 150w from the slot (there are news articles supporting this if you do a quick google search) but in practice I don't think it actually does and that nobody has implemented it. Have a looks at PCI Sig's documentation in particular Q11. Nowhere does it allude or state that 150w from the slot is officially part of PCI-E 2.0.

No matter, most PSU's have at least 2 6 Pin connectors and if not the cards come with Molex adapters anyway (since both Molex and 6 pin PCI-E provide 75 watts).

Well with my PSU I wouldnt have a problem supplying the power to a card let alone two. The problem is I only have 1 6 pin, and 1 6+2 (8 pin) pin. I was trying to decide if I should wait for the R700 or get a new board and do CF. However, if you need 4 6 pin connectors I can't physically do it as I only have 2. And since I just bought this 140 dollar PSU last Sept. I dont really want to spend another 170 dollars so I can get 2 more 6 pins.

If it really requires 2 6 pins (4 for CF) in 2.0 boards then I will have to wait for the R700 and just use my 6 pin and 8 pin to provide power.

In you're case I'd wait for the R700 and just use that with 1x 6pin and 1x 8pin, instead of buying a new mobo/PSU etc. Keep in mind that all ATI cards come with Molex to 6pin adapters (molex and 6pin pci-e are both 75watts).

 

[BFG10K]

did you guys see the 8XAA performance at firing squad,

Yep, and it's yet another example of a situation where things can't possibly be CPU limited.

With 8xMSAA the 4870 is faster in HL2, Oblivion and Quake Wars. Granted it's not a huge amount (and the GTX200 is a lot faster in CoH) but it's still amazing given the 4870?s $300 price point compared to the GTX280?s $650 price point.

 

[NullSubroutine]

Well I plan on buying a new Mobo/CPU but I don't want to buy a new power supply as well. It's not really in my budget. I already know the R700 has 1 6 pin + 1 8 pin connector (you can see the pics with the black PCB) and you can see the person running it with 2 6 pins instead and it works. The R700 would probably be cheaper as I can get a P45 board for single PCI-E 2.0 @ 16x where as if I went for CF I would have to get a X38 board to get 2.0 x 2 @ 16x (not 16x/8x in the P45).

I was just hoping that I wouldnt have to wait for the R700 in Aug and could get a 4870 in CF isntead. Oh well, I guess good things come to those who wait? Maybe we will see it perform better than CF?

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

did you guys see the 8XAA performance at firing squad,

Yep, and it's yet another example of a situation where things can't possibly be CPU limited.

With 8xMSAA the 4870 is faster in HL2, Oblivion and Quake Wars. Granted it's not a huge amount (and the GTX200 is a lot faster in CoH) but it's still amazing given the 4870?s $300 price point compared to the GTX280?s $650 price point.

BFG,

I am curious, do you plan on upgrading this round? If so, what card are you going to be going for? I know you love single card performance, but it sure seems to me that the current price of the 280GTX is just like throwing money away. Maybe if it drops to $500...

Myself, I plan on waiting for the 4870 1GB variant, that will also give time for these prices to settle a bit. I made a huge mistake purchasing what I thought would be a difficult card to obtain, the 8800GTS 512MB. In a matter of 2 months my purchase went from $350 worth to $200. I hate when that happens.

 

[flexy]

it's irony how my G92 8800GTS, which i just bought in february, now in summer looks like some ancient garbage.

It's also irony that i am drooling over the 4870, although i dont really have a "real life" need...so i could very well keep the 8800GTS and play literally everything w/ decent speed (except crysis)..but i am just digging the card since its so incredible cheap..and its good to know to have reserves

The biggest factor for me is that i still think AMD/Ati has an edge in IQ...since i never saw the "greatly improved" AA modi/quality as many say the 8800 series has, as opposed to ATI. But even with 4x, 6x, 8x AA modi on the NV card i have occasional jaggies and just dont think that their AA is that great...while on my old Radeon 850 all it took was 4xAA and the image qualtiy was just better overall.

Will see whether i get weak and get one..right now i am literally just playing WoW

 

[*kjm]

Null you could always look into something like
This

or This

 

[JPB]

R700 to get black

Looks cool

We've seen R700, but we were asked not to take the pictures of the card. The card itself looks almost identical to many reference-based Radeon HD 3870 X2 cards as the cooler looks very similar. The cooler is a bit more efficient, but you can expect that as the new chips are getting a bit hotter than the old RV670.


The only big change is that the PCB is black this time around, and that makes the card look a bit fancier. The card with its current driver can run Crysis at some very high resolution but, of course, the final driver will be available at the launch and we can suggest that R700 support should appear in Catalyst 8.8 or even 8.9.

Radeon HD 4850 and 4870 both just launched and the dual card is supposed to follow in six to eight weeks. Top notch AMD people have already said that they expect it to win against Geforce GTX 280 and the pressure is really on Nvidia.

I may be just waiting on this

 

[JPB]

IceQ HD 4800 coming next month

End of July

According to our sources, HIS's IceQ version of the HD 4800 series should be launched at the end of July.

HIS will probably do both HD 4850 and HD 4870, as they both heat up to around 80+ degrees when under load and IceQ should do a pretty good job in keeping the temps at bay. HIS is working hard on the IceQ cooling for the new series, and it is still not certain if they are going to do a new IceQ version or if we are still going to see the good old IceQ 3, the same one that has cooled the HD 3870 card.

HIS probably isn't the only AIB partner that's working on non-reference HD 4800 series cards and more partners should follow, but for now we won't see these before the end of July.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

*sigh*

One of the things that bothers me about fudzilla is how he keeps stating the obvious... One 4870 comes very close and in some cases already surpasses the GTX 280, OF COURSE 2 OF THEM WILL LEAVE THE GTX 280 IN THE DUST... *facepalm*

What an idiot

 

[JPB]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
*sigh*

One of the things that bothers me about fudzilla is how he keeps stating the obvious... One 4870 comes very close and in some cases already surpasses the GTX 280, OF COURSE 2 OF THEM WILL LEAVE THE GTX 280 IN THE DUST... *facepalm*

What an idiot

:thumbsup:

 

[BFG10K]

I am curious, do you plan on upgrading this round? If so, what card are you going to be going for? I know you love single card performance, but it sure seems to me that the current price of the 280GTX is just like throwing money away.

I?m definitely upgrading but I haven't decided what to yet. The GTX280's price isn't a problem, it's nVidia's piss-poor driver support.

175.19 finally fixes the UT2004 stuttering and the UO slowdowns, which is great. The issue I have is why were the drivers just happened to be released when ATi started looking competitive, and why the hell weren't they released sooner during the 18 month period I was afflicted with the problem?

I'm leaning towards getting a 4870 and then picking up a 55 nm GT200 if I'm not happy with ATi.

 

[JPB]

Grabs a piece of the HD 4800 pie

Gainward goes ATI


The green loving Gainward has ditched the Nvidia exclusivity and has prepped its HD 4800 series graphics cards. The reason is probably as simple as it can be; DAAMIT has great products with its HD 4800 series and Gainward simply wants to be a part of it.

Gainward is going to announce reference designed HD 4850 and HD 4870 cards. We have seen this happen when Nvidia launched its 8-series cards, and this time it's the other way around. Let's just hope, for Nvidia's sake, that Gainward is the only "Nvidia exclusive" partner that will announce the HD 4800 series.

Gainward's mothership a big graphic company that starts with a P has been doing ATI for a while and since Gainward is now run by ex ATI chap from Taiwan, it kind of make sense that this will happen.

So Gainward finally went DAAMIT leaving only few to be Nvidia only.

 

[Gikaseixas]

I'm leaning towards getting a 4870 and then picking up a 55 nm GT200 if I'm not happy with ATi.

Good logic there. I'm still debating if i go 4850 CF or single 4870.

 

[AmberClad]

Originally posted by: JPB
Gainward's mothership a big graphic company that starts with a P has been doing ATI for a while and since Gainward is now run by ex ATI chap from Taiwan, it kind of make sense that this will happen.

Which P would that be? Powercolor? I thought Powercolor/Tul already owned a NV subsidiary (Zogis). Can't be PNY. Palit, then?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: JPB
Grabs a piece of the HD 4800 pie

Gainward goes ATI


The green loving Gainward has ditched the Nvidia exclusivity and has prepped its HD 4800 series graphics cards. The reason is probably as simple as it can be; DAAMIT has great products with its HD 4800 series and Gainward simply wants to be a part of it.

Gainward is going to announce reference designed HD 4850 and HD 4870 cards. We have seen this happen when Nvidia launched its 8-series cards, and this time it's the other way around. Let's just hope, for Nvidia's sake, that Gainward is the only "Nvidia exclusive" partner that will announce the HD 4800 series.

Gainward's mothership a big graphic company that starts with a P has been doing ATI for a while and since Gainward is now run by ex ATI chap from Taiwan, it kind of make sense that this will happen.

So Gainward finally went DAAMIT leaving only few to be Nvidia only.

I'd love an EVGA KO SSC whatever 4870 with a stepup.

JPB, nice sig.