Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: jaredpace
Wow, ATi is really giving it to Nvidia this time. Looks like HD4870X2 has the performance crown. I can't believe AMD/ATi actually got back on top, wonder how long it will last before retaliation?
Well sort of anyway.
Do they have the top performing anything today? No.
Will they have the top performing single GPU card in a month(?) when the 4870X2 launches? No.
Will they have the top performing AFR card in a month(?)? Looks that way.
Will two of their AFR cards beat three GTX280s? Tough to say.
So if your definition of "ATi got back on top" is "It looks like in a month they'll have the best performing AFR card", you are technically correct. (although we also have no idea what the market will look like next month)
Do they own Nvidia in the price/performance race?
Yep.
Do you like the Rumsfeld method of asking questions and then answering them?
Apparently
Do you appear to be in damage control overtime?
Undoubtedly
Can Tri-Sli beat quad X-Fire?
Now you're just getting dirty.
Originally posted by: Ariste
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: jaredpace
Wow, ATi is really giving it to Nvidia this time. Looks like HD4870X2 has the performance crown. I can't believe AMD/ATi actually got back on top, wonder how long it will last before retaliation?
Well sort of anyway.
Do they have the top performing anything today? No.
Will they have the top performing single GPU card in a month(?) when the 4870X2 launches? No.
Will they have the top performing AFR card in a month(?)? Looks that way.
Will two of their AFR cards beat three GTX280s? Tough to say.
So if your definition of "ATi got back on top" is "It looks like in a month they'll have the best performing AFR card", you are technically correct. (although we also have no idea what the market will look like next month)
They have the best price/performance right now. The 4870X2 beats a single GTX280 in pretty much every benchmark, and sometimes even beats GTX280 SLI.
In other words, it costs an nVidia customer $1000 to consistently beat ATI's $500 card.
ATI wins this round. Period.
You forgot IQ quality,personally I find AMD/ATI tend to offer slight better IQ, that's my personal experience going back and forth between Nvidia and ATi.
Originally posted by: CP5670
You forgot IQ quality,personally I find AMD/ATI tend to offer slight better IQ, that's my personal experience going back and forth between Nvidia and ATi.
Nvidia actually has better AF these days, and AA is pretty much equal. Although the differences are not big enough to worry about.
Originally posted by: extra
Originally posted by: Ariste
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: jaredpace
Wow, ATi is really giving it to Nvidia this time. Looks like HD4870X2 has the performance crown. I can't believe AMD/ATi actually got back on top, wonder how long it will last before retaliation?
Well sort of anyway.
Do they have the top performing anything today? No.
Will they have the top performing single GPU card in a month(?) when the 4870X2 launches? No.
Will they have the top performing AFR card in a month(?)? Looks that way.
Will two of their AFR cards beat three GTX280s? Tough to say.
So if your definition of "ATi got back on top" is "It looks like in a month they'll have the best performing AFR card", you are technically correct. (although we also have no idea what the market will look like next month)
They have the best price/performance right now. The 4870X2 beats a single GTX280 in pretty much every benchmark, and sometimes even beats GTX280 SLI.
In other words, it costs an nVidia customer $1000 to consistently beat ATI's $500 card.
ATI wins this round. Period.
No.
Customers win this round. Period.
Nvidia frantically dropping 2xx series prices. Ati's cards delivering awesome value at every segment and currently kicking nvidia's butt in value...
I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of summer mid 200's will pick you up a gt260 (maybe after rebate).
I am so excited about the build i'm going to do this christmas-ish. God it's going to rock so hard.
Currently ati's cards seem like the ones to get unless you only play crysis or something. However if nvidia gets even more aggressive and goes nuts in an all out price war, that could change. This rocks, is all I have to say. I was expecting the 4800 series to suck i'm so glad it didn't.
Originally posted by: nRollo
Hmmmm what I was replying to is "I can't believe ATi/AMD actually got back on top", and what I said is factual.
For those who were unclear on my prior post, here's what I consider "on top"
What is the undisputed highest performing single GPU video card available? GTX280
What is the undisputed highest performing dual GPU video card available? 9800GX2
What is the undisputed highest performing multi GPU video card set available? GTX280 3way
At the end of the day, the above are all I care about for "on top". I don't care if ATi offers a card that offers 8800GTS level performance for $3.88, to me that won't mean they're "on top".
When Ati can say they have a card in one of the three slots above, they can make a valid claim to being "on top".
I imagine for some people bang for buck is their definition of "on top", but for me, and most of the review sites, performance in the present tense is that definition. Nobody says Intel's current fastest isn't "on top" because their Q9550 offers 85% of the performance, or Phenoms offer "good value".
For that matter, I wonder if when the X850XTX was competing against a 6800GT dual GPU card, and the X1950XTX competed against a 7950GX2, if some of the people posting here were posting "Curses! NVIDIA got back on top!" a month(?) before those parts launched.
Food for thought.
Originally posted by: toslat
@nRollo
You should check your own X2 v GTX280 poll thread where approx 50% of respondents said they will buy the X2 as opposed to only 15% for the GTX280 (even with price cuts).
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: toslat
@nRollo
You should check your own X2 v GTX280 poll thread where approx 50% of respondents said they will buy the X2 as opposed to only 15% for the GTX280 (even with price cuts).
Like I said, that poll is far from scientific. If you cant tell by the posts over the last month, id say a far majority on this site are extremely bias towards ATi. They arent just happy to have competition, they actually dont like NV...some of the comments you would only expect to find on some AMD fan site. (An example is the F*** Nvidia post a few posts up)
I think it has to do with "going against the man", kind of like all the college kids with thier Mac's.....
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: toslat
@nRollo
You should check your own X2 v GTX280 poll thread where approx 50% of respondents said they will buy the X2 as opposed to only 15% for the GTX280 (even with price cuts).
Like I said, that poll is far from scientific. If you cant tell by the posts over the last month, id say a far majority on this site are extremely bias towards ATi. They arent just happy to have competition, they actually dont like NV...some of the comments you would only expect to find on some AMD fan site. (An example is the F*** Nvidia post a few posts up)
I think it has to do with "going against the man", kind of like all the college kids with thier Mac's.....
Originally posted by: dadach
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: toslat
@nRollo
You should check your own X2 v GTX280 poll thread where approx 50% of respondents said they will buy the X2 as opposed to only 15% for the GTX280 (even with price cuts).
Like I said, that poll is far from scientific. If you cant tell by the posts over the last month, id say a far majority on this site are extremely bias towards ATi. They arent just happy to have competition, they actually dont like NV...some of the comments you would only expect to find on some AMD fan site. (An example is the F*** Nvidia post a few posts up)
I think it has to do with "going against the man", kind of like all the college kids with thier Mac's.....
posted by Ocguy31:
"I cant wait to trash those cards when they come out for not even touching the GTX280."
you were saying?...
Originally posted by: toslat
@nRollo
You should check your own X2 v GTX280 poll thread where approx 50% of respondents said they will buy the X2 as opposed to only 15% for the GTX280 (even with price cuts).
Of interest though is your assertion that the 9800GX2 tops the 4870X2 in dual GPU single slot solutions - would like to see some links please.
On multi-GPU performance, most likely the dual 4870X2 will beat a tri SLI GTX280, given that a single 4870X2 trades blows with a GTX280 SLI. Dual 4870X2 doubles the potential of the 4870X2 while a tri-SLI gives only a 50% potential increase. Of course scaling will have the final say on this.
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
If NV could figure out a way to put two GT200 chips on one PCB, it would destroy a X2.
I don't think this is true- GTX280 SLi doesn't destroy a 4870X2, so a "9900GX2" wouldn't either at current spec.
IDK rollo...the one thing the GT200 has right now is the OC ability......a quality cooling solution (usually from the better partners, i.e. EVGA) and you can crank the crap out of the core of GT200....I dont think you could say the same for the new ATi cards...at least not yet. Maybe some of the better ATi partners will provide the cooling that will allow the DDR5 to stretch its OCing legs......they sure havent done it on the 4850 and 4870 in thier infancy (unless ive missed something)? ??
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: toslat
@nRollo
You should check your own X2 v GTX280 poll thread where approx 50% of respondents said they will buy the X2 as opposed to only 15% for the GTX280 (even with price cuts).
Of interest though is your assertion that the 9800GX2 tops the 4870X2 in dual GPU single slot solutions - would like to see some links please.
On multi-GPU performance, most likely the dual 4870X2 will beat a tri SLI GTX280, given that a single 4870X2 trades blows with a GTX280 SLI. Dual 4870X2 doubles the potential of the 4870X2 while a tri-SLI gives only a 50% potential increase. Of course scaling will have the final say on this.
I think you should re-read my posts, and keep the concepts of "present" and "future" in mind.
Anyway, I'm done here.
I say "When ATi releases a first place card, I'll consider them in first place."
You say "ATi is going to release a first place card in the future, so they're in first place now."
Two different ways to look at it, you're welcome to your opinion.
Originally posted by: nkdesistyle
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
I think the non-shared memory pool, and the so-so reviews have put a damper on the red-team.
Call me an NV guy all you want, but I have no problem saying ATI has the best single-card solution as of actual launch day. Thats a good thing. This will wake up NV...just like the 8 series woke up ATi. I dont know why thats a big deal for some people to admit, I love competition. I dont have stock in either one, but some people here act like they do.....
If NV could figure out a way to put two GT200 chips on one PCB, it would destroy a X2. However, im not positive they can do that and still make a nice margin.......even @ 55nm.
I agree with everything you said until you came to your point of if there were 2 gt 200 on one pcb it would distroy x2, yes it would beat it in some games and lose in others as review say it, but destroying the x2 is out of question, when it scales this card beats the gtx 280 50/90% depending on the game and resolution so gtx 280 dual chip card would certainly match up and trade blows but I don't think I would say that it would destroy the x2.
Originally posted by: ginfest
Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Like I said before at the same or similar pricepoint there is NO reason to get a GTX280 over a 4870x2. It's a shame this forum is inundated with Nvidia fanboys and Nvidia payed trollsters, so the average person can't really see the truth.
This is an outright bunch of BS. In fact, if you take the time to read each post here, and qualify the posters, you will see a decided AMD/ATI bent since the current gen arrived
Are you running both the new NV GTX 2xx line and or the ATI 48xx? So you have done a direct comparison and you are sure about that "truth"? Or is your truth limited to what you have read here and at other sites?
And for that matter, what is the "truth". There is not as big a discrepancy between them as some folks would have you believe.