ATi 4870 X2 (R700) previews thread

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: SteelSix

Originally posted by: BroadbandGamer
Can someone explain to me exactly what Micro-Stutter is and whether or not I need to worry about this? I haven't been following the hardware scene much so this is the first I've heard of this. I plan on buying a 4870 X2 the day it's released. Now I'm thinking I should just pick up a 4870.

I can tell you what it isn't, and that's a big deal. It's blown way out of proportion. If you have your eyes on an X2, just buy it... :thumbsup:

That's pretty irresponsible advice.

I'll agree somewhat that micro-stutter may not be a huge deal if you're comparing say the performance of 4850 Crossfire that you got for $300 from BB vs. a $450 GTX 280, since you do save quite a bit of money in the process. On the other hand, if you're deciding between a $450 GTX 280 and ~$500 4870X2, you might want to pay a little bit more attention to the 'finer points' like micro stutter. Micro stutter does have an impact on game play, and it's also quite vexing because even though your fps are decent your game feels crappy.

That is really the fundamental reason for bringing up the 'if and how' ATI solved the micro-stutter issue with the 4870X2.

 

[woolfe9999]

Micro stutter does have an impact on game play, and it's also quite vexing because even though your fps are decent your game feels crappy.

Out of curiosity, what testing has been done to verify that people can subjectively detect micro-stutter?

- woolfe

 

[dadach]

microstutter is being blown out of proportion by nvidia fanbois because ati will soon have top card available...its kinda weak...not for exactly the same reason, but it also makes me wonder why all of the sudden the top post on forum is what games do and do not scale in crossfire/sli :S

 

[chewietobbacca]

And besides, preliminary tests have shown that any microstutter in the 4870 CF and 4870X2 is far lower than any previous multi-GPU setup so it looks like much work has been done to virtually eliminate it

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: dadach
microstutter is being blown out of proportion by nvidia fanbois because ati will soon have top card available...its kinda weak...not for exactly the same reason, but it also makes me wonder why all of the sudden the top post on forum is what games do and do not scale in crossfire/sli :S

micro-stutter is not being blown out of proportion by 'nvidia fanbois'.

1) The claim has been made by a few that the 4870X2 has resolved the micro-stuttering issue that affected the 3870X2, so it's a valid point of discussion.

2) If ATI has solved the micro-stutter issue with the 4870X2, a conversation on how this might have been accomplished and what the possible (if any) side effects of their solution may be is a valid point of discussion.

3) Micro-stutter thus far affects ALL AFR based multi-gpu solutions, including NVIDIA's and ATI's. So, it's not really a relevant argument for one over the other.

4) The most 'infamous' of the NV focus group members has repeatedly said on record that in his opinion the benefits of multi-gpu outweigh the drawbacks. IIRC, both NV focus group members run or have run multi-gpu setups.

5) I brought up the point of if/how ATI resolved the micro-stutter... In the last year, I've owned the following ATI cards: an HD 3870X2, two 4850s, and an HD 4870; and before that I owned an X1800XT/X1800XT CF Ed., and an X1900XTX... How about you?

Originally posted by: woolfe9999

Micro stutter does have an impact on game play, and it's also quite vexing because even though your fps are decent your game feels crappy.

Out of curiosity, what testing has been done to verify that people can subjectively detect micro-stutter?

- woolfe

IIRC, this site http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?article_id=631668 was the first to bring this to the forefront. They include videos... Some people notice it, some don't.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: KIAman
What is the undisputed fastest production car available? Mclaren F1
Cost? Over 1 million.

What is the undisputed fastest production motorcycle available? MTT Turbine Superbike
Cost? Around $180,000

What is the undisputed world's fastest computer? Roadrunner
Cost? $100 million

Semantics can be a bitch.

ATI wins this round.

actually I believe that the bugatti veyron eb 16.4 is faster than the mclaren f1. you got the cost right, however

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: woolfe9999

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: ginfest

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Like I said before at the same or similar pricepoint there is NO reason to get a GTX280 over a 4870x2. It's a shame this forum is inundated with Nvidia fanboys and Nvidia payed trollsters, so the average person can't really see the truth.

This is an outright bunch of BS. In fact, if you take the time to read each post here, and qualify the posters, you will see a decided AMD/ATI bent since the current gen arrived

Are you running both the new NV GTX 2xx line and or the ATI 48xx? So you have done a direct comparison and you are sure about that "truth"? Or is your truth limited to what you have read here and at other sites?
And for that matter, what is the "truth". There is not as big a discrepancy between them as some folks would have you believe.

yeah, ~ 50 % average frame rate increase is pretty close...I think I'll go out and buy a gtx 280 now for $499...oops, now it's $449...soon it will be <$400...

I wouldn't be too sure about further price cuts beyond those already announced, at least for the near future. Nvidia is playing a game of trying to balance market share versus profits and its decisions in that regard can get pretty complicated. These newly announced prices smack of razor thin margins, particularly with the 260. My educated guess is that Nvidia believes that all it has to do is get into the price/performance ballpark of the ATI products, even if they're a little behind, and that their somewhat superior brand name recognition, as well as aggressive marketing, will retain them a reasonable market share. Then they just ride it out until their die shrink. I could be wrong, but I think these are the last Nvidia price cuts you'll see until the die shrink, unless AMD cuts their own prices in the interim, or R700 comes in at a lower price than expected (i.e. <$500.)

- Dave

well, the palit is already 419 AR at newegg... only $20 more to go...come on nvidia, you can do it!!!

 

[justinburton]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: KIAman
What is the undisputed fastest production car available? Mclaren F1
Cost? Over 1 million.

What is the undisputed fastest production motorcycle available? MTT Turbine Superbike
Cost? Around $180,000

What is the undisputed world's fastest computer? Roadrunner
Cost? $100 million

Semantics can be a bitch.

ATI wins this round.

actually I believe that the bugatti veyron eb 16.4 is faster than the mclaren f1. you got the cost right, however

You believed wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSC_Aero, http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/

 

[bryanW1995]

I never said that the veyron was the FASTEST, though I certainly implied that...sheesh, I need to quit reading so many of rollo's posts...


of course, this also begs the question of "fastest" as the car with the highest top speed vs the car that accelerates faster. the bugatti accelerates faster but the ssc aero has a higher top speed. kind of like the 4870x2 vs the gtx 280...oh, wait, the 4870x2 is faster in just about everything. by a large margin.

 

[dasracht]

Any new rumors on the release date?

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: dadach
microstutter is being blown out of proportion by nvidia fanbois

Besides it's subjective. I had three SLI rigs while back and it never bothered me at all. Actually I never even knew of it until recently, due to all the talk in the forums of course. Once I get my 4870X2 when it comes out I'll tell you what I think of it...

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: dadach
microstutter is being blown out of proportion by nvidia fanbois

Besides it's subjective. I had three SLI rigs while back and it never bothered me at all. Actually I never even knew of it until recently, due to all the talk in the forums of course. Once I get my 4870X2 when it comes out I'll tell you what I think of it...

Same here. I've had three SLI and two CF rigs and never noticed it. Not saying it wasn't there; but I sure didn't notice it. Good scaling is much more important an issue. nV scaling is very good these days. I hope we see improvements with CF. They have to come now AMD, not six months from now.

This is gonna be a long 3 weeks. I'm going thru withdrawls. On the flipside, I've started working out again, and am even taking a vacation..

 

[dadach]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: dadach
microstutter is being blown out of proportion by nvidia fanbois because ati will soon have top card available...its kinda weak...not for exactly the same reason, but it also makes me wonder why all of the sudden the top post on forum is what games do and do not scale in crossfire/sli :S

5) I brought up the point of if/how ATI resolved the micro-stutter... In the last year, I've owned the following ATI cards: an HD 3870X2, two 4850s, and an HD 4870; and before that I owned an X1800XT/X1800XT CF Ed., and an X1900XTX... How about you?

i have had 1800xt, 1800xt (modded as XL running on ati3200 chipset as crossfire w/o master), 1900xt CF, 3870 CF, 3870x2, 3870x2 x2 quad crossfire, so it qualifies me to say it has been blown out of proportion

gonna setup double 4870x2 as soon as i get the new motherboard, although even with q6600@4GHz, i was cpu limited on quadfire :S

 

[Hauk]

Fud's latest info about launch

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: SteelSix
Fud's latest mindless rambling about launch

Yet another post in which all he states is what everyone already knew... Gee, if thats all it takes to be a journalist Im in :roll:

The only way Nvidia can recover the single card crown now is by slapping two of the 55nm GTX together, which I assume should be possible... And either way Im predicting one of those emergency "super refreshes" like FX5800 > FX5900 or X1800XT > X1900XTX

And still, their name is the only thing they have going for it this generation, which in the end means they will probably still make more money than AMD, despite the production costs being much higher

 

[hooflung]

Never seen micro stutter on my SLI setup. I guess I am one of those lucky people who were born with eye's that were not red or green.

 

[scottb75]

I have used 8800GT SLI, and 9800GX2, the GT's in SLI had a bit of micro-stuttering when AFR was used. The 9800GX2 did not have as much micro-stuttering, it still had a little but far less noticable. If micro-stuttering is indeed solved with the HD4870X2 that is good reason to look into buying one.

 

[Sylvanas]

Guru3D has a R700 preview to add to the pot.

 

[ashishmishra]

Originally posted by: scottb75
I have used 8800GT SLI, and 9800GX2, the GT's in SLI had a bit of micro-stuttering when AFR was used. The 9800GX2 did not have as much micro-stuttering, it still had a little but far less noticable. If micro-stuttering is indeed solved with the HD4870X2 that is good reason to look into buying one.

I haven't noticed micro-stuttering in any of the games I play either with the 9800GX2. I'm looking forward to the HD4870X2, I could certainly use that 1GB frame-buffer for the settings I use with Oblivion.

 

[nitromullet]

Kind of been wondering about something... Why no GTX 260 SLI comparisons to the 4870X2 in any of these previews?

The X2 generally equates to dual 4870s (which was included in many previews), so I'm not really sure why it doesn't also seem to equate to dual GTX 260s which is the 4870's direct competition. Sure, the GTX cards launched at prices indicating that the GTX 280 and 4870X2 should be rivals, but the pricing has been adjusted to reflect relative performance.

Of course, for the actual launch reviews the review sites will show a 4870X2 vs. GTX 280 comparison, but a GTX 260 SLI setup in the mix might be nice to see as well. Honestly, I think the 4870X2 has the power to beat the GTX 260 SLI setup in probably most cases, so I think it would come down to drivers and multi-gpu scaling which is of some interest IMO.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: Sylvanas
Guru3D has a R700 preview to add to the pot.

Why the hell do they use 4 different shades of blue?

Anyway, it looks great both in the benchmarks and in the pictures (love the black). I was going to get a 4870, but am now holding out for one of these babies. Can hardly wait.

KT

 

[Compddd]

Would a 625W PSU be enough for a 4870X2?

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: Compddd
Would a 625W PSU be enough for a 4870X2?

2x 4870 only recommends 600watt so the 4870x2 should be the same or less. It should run fine on my Corsair 650 ( 52A 12v ) powersupply. Can't wait for the release.

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
Kind of been wondering about something... Why no GTX 260 SLI comparisons to the 4870X2 in any of these previews?

watch it stack up against SLI 280s:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3354&p=7
that will give you an idea of how it pits against SLI GTX 260's

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: Compddd
Would a 625W PSU be enough for a 4870X2?

2x 4870 only recommends 600watt so the 4870x2 should be the same or less. It should run fine on my Corsair 650 ( 52A 12v ) powersupply. Can't wait for the release.

Are you sure about it running fine on your HX620? Your motherboard, hard drives, fans, USB devices all use electricity too. We have the same PS and it's excellent, but I don't think it would be a good idea to run a 4870X2 or 4870 Xfire on it. If it did "run fine" you'd probably be right at the PS's limit.

With the rig in my sig, I most definitely cannot run a 4870X2. I'd have to make the jump to a 1Kw PS...no point in moving up "only" to 850 watts.