ATI 4890 vs nV GTX 275 reviews

[Wreckage]

Wow check out the folding@home numbers
http://www.techpowerup.com/rev...rcolor/HD_4890/23.html

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Wow check out the folding@home numbers
http://www.techpowerup.com/rev...rcolor/HD_4890/23.html

What's so amazing? GTX 275 is the slightly handicapped version of the GTX 285, so it performs a bit slower, both in games and F@H, then it's older brother.

 

[Jacen]

The quantities and stock levels of the 275 are a joke so far. One of the worst paper launches in some time. =/

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Jacen
The quantities and stock levels of the 275 are a joke so far. One of the worst paper launches in some time. =/

Did you want one? Both Newegg and ZZF have them in stock for anyone who actually wants one.

 

[evolucion8]

So few SKU's of the GTX 275 in Newegg compared to the HD 4890, it wasn't a total paper launch but a desesperate one.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: evolucion8
So few SKU's of the GTX 275 in Newegg compared to the HD 4890, it wasn't a total paper launch but a desesperate one.

I don't think Nvidia or any of their partners claimed otherwise, they just wanted to get their samples out in time to be reviewed with the 4890 and nearly every review site clearly said there would be limited availability until the middle of April.

The reasons are obvious for wanting to get the part out in time for the 4890 launch and reviewers I'm sure were more than happy to oblige as reviewing 2 parts in a single review is obviously more desireable than essentially doing the same review 2x a few weeks apart.

 

[Jacen]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Jacen
The quantities and stock levels of the 275 are a joke so far. One of the worst paper launches in some time. =/

Did you want one? Both Newegg and ZZF have them in stock for anyone who actually wants one.

Nice straw man there.

http://www.newegg.com/product/...ourceid=Mozilla-search

As I said, the quantities are a joke.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Jacen
Nice straw man there.

http://www.newegg.com/product/...ourceid=Mozilla-search

As I said, the quantities are a joke.

Straw man? Hardly, you claimed paper launch and no stock when there's clearly hardware in the channel. Nvidia and reviewers clearly indicated limited supply until mid-April, and it looks like Nvidia has every intention to sustain this SKU until GT300, so its clearly not a paper launch. But like I said, they're certainly available for purchase, for anyone who actually wants one.

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: Jacen

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Jacen
The quantities and stock levels of the 275 are a joke so far. One of the worst paper launches in some time. =/

Did you want one? Both Newegg and ZZF have them in stock for anyone who actually wants one.

Nice straw man there.

http://www.newegg.com/product/...ourceid=Mozilla-search

As I said, the quantities are a joke.

What do you want 11 of those for?

 

[josh6079]

I remember a review or two commenting on the limited availability of the GTX 275 for the launch. Wouldn't have been noteworthy had the 4890s not been as available as they were/are.

It's not nonexistent, but it isn't up to demand yet. Still, no sense in really bickering about it from an armchair unless one has genuinely tried to purchase one but couldn't due to availability. Should see plenty of 275s on the e-retailers soon, and I have yet to hear of someone that has tried to purchase one but couldn't.

 

[jiffylube1024]

ATI really needs to stop putting the PCI-e connectors on the end of the card and start putting them on the top. It's a serious inconvenience, even in large cases. It negates any size advantage they have over the GTX 2xx series in cases.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
ATI really needs to stop putting the PCI-e connectors on the end of the card and start putting them on the top. It's a serious inconvenience, even in large cases. It negates any size advantage they have over the GTX 2xx series in cases.

Too bad they couldn't put them at both locations and simply tie them together electrically. Then the consumer could use either one depending on which would serve their needs best.

The only drawback I really see is having live pins exposed inside the connector not being utilized. But that could be overcome by having a blank PCI-E power connector included that would be plugged into the unused connector to shield the live pins.

I dunno, just a random thought.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: Creig


The only drawback I really see is having live pins exposed inside the connector not being utilized. But that could be overcome by having a blank PCI-E power connector included that would be plugged into the unused connector to shield the live pins.

Or a simple plastic cap, just like those on the phones, which can be rotated to seal the unused connectors.

 

[Wreckage]

Check out the Galaxy 275
http://en.expreview.com/2009/0...rclocking-ability.html

This card runs at factory overclocked core/memory/shader clock of 648/1200/1476MHz, and it works steadily at overclocked clocks of 760/1500/1731MHz, with X6771 points of 3DMark score and 6574 points GPU score.

We don?t ensure the retail edition also delivers strong overclocking ability, but from what we can see, the overclocking performance of GeForce GTX 275 does outperform GTX260.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Check out the Galaxy 275
http://en.expreview.com/2009/0...rclocking-ability.html

This card runs at factory overclocked core/memory/shader clock of 648/1200/1476MHz, and it works steadily at overclocked clocks of 760/1500/1731MHz, with X6771 points of 3DMark score and 6574 points GPU score.

We don?t ensure the retail edition also delivers strong overclocking ability, but from what we can see, the overclocking performance of GeForce GTX 275 does outperform GTX260.

3 ghz on the memory? That is insane for ddr3. Is this card real?

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Check out the Galaxy 275
http://en.expreview.com/2009/0...rclocking-ability.html

This card runs at factory overclocked core/memory/shader clock of 648/1200/1476MHz, and it works steadily at overclocked clocks of 760/1500/1731MHz, with X6771 points of 3DMark score and 6574 points GPU score.

We don?t ensure the retail edition also delivers strong overclocking ability, but from what we can see, the overclocking performance of GeForce GTX 275 does outperform GTX260.

Impressive. Hopefully that card's not a random outlier and is representative of what most consumers can expect.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: error8

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Check out the Galaxy 275
http://en.expreview.com/2009/0...rclocking-ability.html

This card runs at factory overclocked core/memory/shader clock of 648/1200/1476MHz, and it works steadily at overclocked clocks of 760/1500/1731MHz, with X6771 points of 3DMark score and 6574 points GPU score.

We don?t ensure the retail edition also delivers strong overclocking ability, but from what we can see, the overclocking performance of GeForce GTX 275 does outperform GTX260.

3 ghz on the memory? That is insane for ddr3. Is this card real?

Non-reference 55nm parts using that Accelero have been announced for some time, although I'm not sure about their widespread availability. Given GTX 275 is also non-reference, I'm guessing most board partners are just swapping the chips and using their GTX 260 board designs.

One thing about those coolers though, they do a better job of cooling the GPU core itself, but are typically worst at cooling the VRMs and do not exhaust heat out of the case like the reference cooler. Their performance probably suffers in SLI also, as the fans on the first card will be blocked by the 2nd.

Inno3D GTX 260
Galaxy GTX 285
Zotac GTX 285


As for those DDR3 clocks, there was a huge bump in speed bin with GTX 285, as many parts were coming out at 1300MHz or more. The RAM on GTX 280s typically capped in the mid-1200s. There were quite a few sites getting close to 3GHz effective with the 285 launch, so it wouldn't be too surprising although 1400 or so is probably more realistic.

The core and shader clocks aren't surprising at all though. Those are pretty typical for 55nm GT200b parts, especially the better B3 revision found on GTX 285 and 295. I'm sure 55nm GTX 260s will overclock similarly once they start using B3 chips, if they haven't started to already.

 

[error8]

It's a great card, nevertheless. Apart from the cooler that exhaust the heat inside the case, everything else is great. Hopefully the price will be too.

 

[evolucion8]

So many stock clocked and overclocked ones with the same reference cooler, a bit bothersome but at $249.99 isn't bad, specially when I paid $299.00 for my card last november. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...06&bop=And&Order=PRICE

But for $30.00 or less you can take an HD 4850X2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102809 which is a nice card, but I would choose the HD 4890, specially that it comes quite close to the GTX 285 and the X2 like all the dual graphic solutions like Crossfire/SLI, there are scaling issues.

 

[Special K]

I will be building a new i7 rig within the next month, and was set on an EVGA GTX 260 core 216 superclocked edition until I heard about the GTX 275. However, the ExtremeTech review makes a good point: The 275 isn't currently as good of a value as the GTX 260 core 216 in terms of $/average FPS. However, they also expect prices on the GTX 275 to drop in the coming weeks and months. I think the best option right now would be to buy the EVGA GTX 260 core 216 SC, and then take advantage of their step-up program right before the 90-day time period expires, assuming the price of the GTX 275 has dropped some by then.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Special K
I will be building a new i7 rig within the next month, and was set on an EVGA GTX 260 core 216 superclocked edition until I heard about the GTX 275. However, the ExtremeTech review makes a good point: The 275 isn't currently as a good of a value as the GTX 260 core 216 in terms of $/average FPS. However, they also expect prices on the GTX 275 to drop in the coming weeks and months. I think the best option right now would be to buy the EVGA GTX 260 core 216 SC, and then take advantage of their step-up program right before the 90-day time period expires, assuming the price of the GTX 275 has dropped some by then.

The problem with step-up is that they rarely adjust the MSRP basis for their cards, so the basis price now of a GTX 275 most likely will not change within the 2-3 week time frame you're looking at. The end result is that you get the most out of step-up if you paid close to retail and then step-up right when a new part launches. This often results in an almost free step-up.

Personally I don't think the GTX 275 will ever beat the GTX 260 if you're looking at price to performance, as $160-180 or whatever it is AR compared to $240-260 is going to be hard to beat. Maybe you see GTX 275 for $220-225 AR in a few weeks, seeing as AMD has already dropped prices on the 4890 and added some MIRs.

If saving $20-25 per card AR would sweeten things up for you then you may just want to wait a few weeks and get two at $225 or so. If you buy a GTX 260 now for $180 or so after $20-30 MIR, you'll still end up paying $50-70 for the Step-Up, which is basically the same difference you'd pay now if you just bought the 275s now.

 

[PUN]

Originally posted by: Special K
I will be building a new i7 rig within the next month, and was set on an EVGA GTX 260 core 216 superclocked edition until I heard about the GTX 275. However, the ExtremeTech review makes a good point: The 275 isn't currently as a good of a value as the GTX 260 core 216 in terms of $/average FPS. However, they also expect prices on the GTX 275 to drop in the coming weeks and months. I think the best option right now would be to buy the EVGA GTX 260 core 216 SC, and then take advantage of their step-up program right before the 90-day time period expires, assuming the price of the GTX 275 has dropped some by then.

Get SLI MSI GTX260 216c O/C version for $159 each from newegg.

I bought a Sapphire 4890 from ewiz for $206Shipped after $12 LIVE rebate

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: chizow
The problem with step-up is that they rarely adjust the MSRP basis for their cards, so the basis price now of a GTX 275 most likely will not change within the 2-3 week time frame you're looking at. The end result is that you get the most out of step-up if you paid close to retail and then step-up right when a new part launches. This often results in an almost free step-up.

Where are you getting 2-3 weeks from? The step-up program is good for 90 days after you buy the card. Also, what do you mean they "rarely adjust the MSRP basis for their cards"? Are you saying that even though in 3 months, the price of a new GTX 275 on Newegg may be below the current MSRP of $250, EVGA will still use $250 as the step up price?

Originally posted by: chizow
Personally I don't think the GTX 275 will ever beat the GTX 260 if you're looking at price to performance, as $160-180 or whatever it is AR compared to $240-260 is going to be hard to beat. Maybe you see GTX 275 for $220-225 AR in a few weeks, seeing as AMD has already dropped prices on the 4890 and added some MIRs.

Right now the GTX 260 core 216 SC edition is $200 AR. Are you saying that if I get the GTX 260 core 216 SC edition now for $200, it wouldn't be a good deal to step up to the GTX 275 at a MSRP of $220-$225 at a later date?

Originally posted by: chizow
If saving $20-25 per card AR would sweeten things up for you then you may just want to wait a few weeks and get two at $225 or so. If you buy a GTX 260 now for $180 or so after $20-30 MIR, you'll still end up paying $50-70 for the Step-Up, which is basically the same difference you'd pay now if you just bought the 275s now.

I don't follow you here. If I buy an EVGA GTX 260 core 216 SC now, it will be $200 AR. If the price on the GTX 275 drops within the next 3 months, then I would pay the difference between that and $200, which would be some amount less than $50, since the difference in price right now is $50. Obviously it wouldn't make sense to step up to the GTX 275 if the step up price in 3 months is the same price as it is now - $250. I wouldn't save any money by doing that.

Regarding the bolded part - how does buying 2 cards figure into this? I was only planning on buying a single card.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Special K
Where are you getting 2-3 weeks from? The step-up program is good for 90 days after you buy the card. Also, what do you mean they "rarely adjust the MSRP basis for their cards"? Are you saying that even though in 3 months, the price of a new GTX 275 on Newegg may be below the current MSRP of $250, EVGA will still use $250 as the step up price?

Oops I guess I read too much into some of the context you gave. From the i7 in the next month and the pricing concerns, I assumed a few things, your video card purchase was to maximize your new i7 build, you'd want to step-up around the same time and that you were considering SLI with the X58, and that you wanted to wait a bit for the initial price drop.

But ya that's correct about MSRP, they typically do not adjust the original MSRP for Step-Up, ever, even if it drops significantly at retail. That's also why it typically doesn't make sense to wait on the 90 days unless you think there will be a part you want more near the end of the 90 day period.

Right now the GTX 260 core 216 SC edition is $200 AR. Are you saying that if I get the GTX 260 core 216 SC edition now for $200, it wouldn't be a good deal to step up to the GTX 275 at a MSRP of $220-$225 at a later date?

That's the thing, the MSRP would still be $250 for the GTX 275, except you'll have the added inconvenience of no video card for a week or so and you'll have to pay shipping both ways (~15?). There are reports of them not deducting rebate amounts properly from your purchase price, although that's clearly grey area and a bit sketchy and unrealiable.

I don't follow you here. If I buy an EVGA GTX 260 core 216 SC now, it will be $200 AR. If the price on the GTX 275 drops within the next 3 months, then I would pay the difference between that and $200, which would be some amount less than $50, since the difference in price right now is $50. Obviously it wouldn't make sense to step up to the GTX 275 if the step up price in 3 months is the same price as it is now - $250. I wouldn't save any money by doing that.

Yeah the MSRP on step-up doesn't change, which is why step-up is only really beneficial if you buy at close to MSRP and step-up on a part that is newly launched, so that its price is also close to original MSRP.

Regarding the bolded part - how does buying 2 cards figure into this? I was only planning on buying a single card.

Yep my mistake there, I thought you were toying with the idea of SLI by going X58 as many others have in the past.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: chizow
But ya that's correct about MSRP, they typically do not adjust the original MSRP for Step-Up, ever, even if it drops significantly at retail. That's also why it typically doesn't make sense to wait on the 90 days unless you think there will be a part you want more near the end of the 90 day period.

Well if they never adjust the MSRP, then I guess it only makes sense to use the step-up program if the step-up card you want wasn't available at the time you bought the original card. That's definitely not the case in my current situation.

In this case, I might as well just get the GTX 260 SC now, since it's the better deal.

It looks like the price of the cards on their own web store as the guide for the step-up program. In that case, take a look at this page:

link

Here, they have the GTX 275 listed with an MSRP of $299, even though everything else I have read says the target price for GTX 275's is $249. I don't see how it could possibly be a good deal to use the step-up program if their prices are ~$50 higher than what I could get the card for on Newegg. Also factor in shipping, and the step-up program hardly seems like a good deal, unless the new card simply wasn't available at the time you made your purchase.

Originally posted by: chizow
Yep my mistake there, I thought you were toying with the idea of SLI by going X58 as many others have in the past.

It's unfortunate that X58 is the only platform for core i7 right now, but my current rig is 4.5 years old and I can't game on it anymore, so I don't think I want to wait until the end of this year for i5 and X55. I tend to not be a frequent upgrader, as you can tell from the age of my current rig, so I figured it would be best to get the i7 now since it would probably last longer than a C2D or C2Q.

If I wait 1-2 years to upgrade my video card, don't you think there will be a better single card solution by then that will be superior to 2 GTX 260 core 216 SC's in SLI?