ATi 4xxx Series Review

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: airhendrix13
1) Who the hell cares which company has the better card. Just buy whatever the hell you want. Clearly no one is going to admit they are wrong so let's just end it.

2) If it truly is all about performance, then it shouldn't matter how nVidia competes, whether it's a rehash or not, if it outperforms the competition for a similar price, that's what I'll buy.

3) nVidia and ATi leap frog eachother all the time (a little less in the recent past), this is nothing new, all we can really do is go along for the ride.

I for one will wait for the recent competitive madness to simmer down. I'm use to seeing GPU competition, but this is a little more competitive than i've seen. I do own a 680i mobo and I would like to see nVidia stay on top of ATi (lol) for my own sake, but I'm not gonna dry hump nVidia's leg to be sure of it. What happens, happens.

very good post. I think that this latest release is actually going to be great news for intel: there's even less reason to buy an sli chipset today than there was 24 hrs ago. Intel chipsets with crossfire(x) are looking more an more desirable...plus, intel might now actually have the option to block nvidia completely out of nehalem.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Well the shader clock is at 1.8GHz so that might help it out a little.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Board partners really need to put some 3rd party cooling on the HD4850. Even at 55nm, its one hot as card.

 

[bryanW1995]

the 9800gtx+ is going to do better in benchies than 4850 or they wouldn't be releasing it at $229.

btw, that TD link showed the 9800gtx as still at $269 - $20 mir, so it's $50 more than 4850. THAT won't last long if nvidia wants to sell very many of them. In fact, based upon what we're seeing here, 9800gtx should go down closer to $170 to make up for the high power consumption/loud fan/high heat produced relative to 4850.

edit: cookie, when are you getting a new rig???

 

[Rhino2]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Board partners really need to put some 3rd party cooling on the HD4850. Even at 55nm, its one hot as card.

I'm sure they will as Asus/Powercolor/Sapphire and maybe others I'm missing have had 3rd party cooled 3870s for awhile now.

 

[shamus8888]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Damn dude. If the 4870 represents a decent advantage over a 4850, I think that means ATIMD is back in this bitch.

???

 

[Harmattan]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Would CF 4870 be inferior to 4870x2?

On the contrary, 2x 4870 1024 DDR5 should beat 4870 X2 for much the same reason 2x 3870 beats 3870 x2 in most cases: single 4870s will be clocked significantly higher (core/shaders/mem) than the dual card. Also, in my experience, single cards in CF or SLI always OC higher than dual card solutions. This in spite of the shared L3 on the 4780 X2

 

[Rhino2]

Originally posted by: Harmattan

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Would CF 4870 be inferior to 4870x2?

On the contrary, 2x 4870 1024 DDR5 should beat 4870 X2 for much the same reason 2x 3870 beats 3870 x2 in most cases: single 4870s will be clocked significantly higher (core/shaders/mem) than the dual card. Also, in my experience, single cards in CF or SLI always OC higher than dual card solutions. This in spite of the shared L3 on the 4780 X2

Could you not solve the clock reduction problems with custom cooling solutions and OCing? (Not being smart-assy, I don't know if that's the only contributing factor to the clock reductions)

 

[bryanW1995]

actually 3870x2 has an 850 core vs 775 for a stock 3870. it has lower memory clocks, however, so it's typically pretty even with 2x3870. I suspect that amd will have a tougher time clocking 4870x2 higher than 4870, however, because thermals are going to be a BIG issue on that card imho.

 

[bryanW1995]

atreus21 was commenting that he's impressed with 4850 performance. He's not the only one...

@op 4850 xfire should be = gtx 280 when you factor in the games that DON'T scale very well. in games that do scale, it should be quite a bit faster. check out your favorites and see how they do in xfire, if they all scale well then you'll be gtg. what mobo do you have btw?

 

[bryanW1995]

dp

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Harmattan

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Would CF 4870 be inferior to 4870x2?

On the contrary, 2x 4870 1024 DDR5 should beat 4870 X2 for much the same reason 2x 3870 beats 3870 x2 in most cases: single 4870s will be clocked significantly higher (core/shaders/mem) than the dual card. Also, in my experience, single cards in CF or SLI always OC higher than dual card solutions. This in spite of the shared L3 on the 4780 X2

The 3870x2 actually has the individual cores clocked 50MHz higher then the 3870. We have no idea how the shared memory on the 4870x2 will work or impact performance, so we really can't say if 2 x 4870 will be faster or slower then the 4870x2.

 

[allies]

For reference, does anyone have a link for 8800GT thermals? I'm wondering if it fared better or worse than the 4850 (both cards have similar cooling solutions).

 

[bryanW1995]

I don't have any links, but I read a ton of reviews about 8800gt when it came out, and the general feeling that I'm getting is that they're very similar cards: price/performance completely changes the landscape, cooling solution sucks. it took several months to get 8800gt drivers that actually increased fan speed as temp increased. I STILL don't have drivers that increase fan speed on my 3870, forcing me to use rivatuner for it...

 

[ddarko]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
the 9800gtx+ is going to do better in benchies than 4850 or they wouldn't be releasing it at $229.

btw, that TD link showed the 9800gtx as still at $269 - $20 mir, so it's $50 more than 4850. THAT won't last long if nvidia wants to sell very many of them. In fact, based upon what we're seeing here, 9800gtx should go down closer to $170 to make up for the high power consumption/loud fan/high heat produced relative to 4850.

edit: cookie, when are you getting a new rig???

Maybe not. One of the forum member has rigged an overclocked 9800GTX and the 4850 still comes out ahead:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2198972&enterthread=y

Admittedly, has to be taken with caution but it suggests it's premature to conclude the 9800GTX+ is bound to be a higher performer simply based on its higher price point. After all, 4850 Crossfire is beating the GTX280 in some situations for $250 less!

Also, the writeup about the 9800GTX+ announcement at PC Perspective suggests that Nvidia has DROPPED the memory frequency for the 9800GTX+ versus the 9800GTX. The article says memory frequency for the 9800GTX+ is around 1000 Mhz while the memory speed for the 9800GTX is definitively listed as 1100 Mhz. If true, that will blunt some of the performance increase.It's interesting that in most of the writeups I've seen so far of the announcement, which I assume largely reflects what Nvidia announced word-for-word, memory speed is notably and curiously omitted, even though the increased core and shader speeds are prominently advertised. See PC Perspective's write up here:

http://www.pcper.com/comments.php?nid=5814

 

[A554SS1N]

Originally posted by: ddarko


Also, the writeup about the 9800GTX+ announcement at PC Perspective suggests that Nvidia has DROPPED the memory frequency for the 9800GTX+ versus the 9800GTX. The article says memory frequency for the 9800GTX+ is around 1000 Mhz while the memory speed for the 9800GTX is definitively listed as 1100 Mhz. If true, that will blunt some of the performance increase.

Looks as they they're just making this 9800GTX+ fit the mainstream a bit more i.e. more performance in non-AA situations, but in heavy AA it'll take more of a hit - but then that's higher territory anyway I guess.

 

[NoStateofMind]

ATi has not just made a great product and they have reintroduced themselves into competitive GPU sales. I'm seeing good things and I would like to see more come 4870 GDDR5. At the moment in the price/performance segment ATi owns.

 

[HurleyBird]

Here's a must read architectural write up on RV770:
http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,2845,2320860,00.asp

 

[extra]

Magic drivers? Rrrright. Well, I guess I can be hopeful. But I doubt it. Still, if there are some great new drivers lets hope they at least work. So many of us still using the good old 169's because the new ones are awwwwfful. My computer won't even boot with the new ones lol. Me and many others. WHQL my ass.

Loving this summer so far though. Competition...it tastes so nummy. It's great, I really have no idea what card will be going into my next PC at this point.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
the 9800gtx+ is going to do better in benchies than 4850 or they wouldn't be releasing it at $229.

btw, that TD link showed the 9800gtx as still at $269 - $20 mir, so it's $50 more than 4850. THAT won't last long if nvidia wants to sell very many of them. In fact, based upon what we're seeing here, 9800gtx should go down closer to $170 to make up for the high power consumption/loud fan/high heat produced relative to 4850.

edit: cookie, when are you getting a new rig???

Nothing stopping AMD reducing the price of the 4850,besides won't be long before we see overclocked versions,also remember 4850 is a DX10.1 card.

As to magic drivers well the speed at which Nvidia release their official drivers its going to take about 100 years plus to catch up with AMD with their monthly updates.

Nvidia talks a lot of bull most times.

I'm going back to AMD this time for sure.

 

[Quiksilver]

Newegg Now Has 4850's in Stock:
Click

 

[extra]

"the 9800gtx+ is going to do better in benchies than 4850 or they wouldn't be releasing it at $229."

But will it beat this ATI card when AA is cranked up?

Who the hell plays without AA? I basically disregard any benchmarks that don't have AA turned on. I can't play without it. And so far, sadly, it seems that the 4850 just slaughters the mid range Nvidia cards when AA is cranked up.

Except in Crysis it looks like, so if you are big on Crysis or Crysis engine games Nvidia sure looks like the better bet. Nvidia needs to get that 260's price down. ^_^ God it's going to be a great year. (i'm no fanboy to anyone, one computer here has ati, one computer here has nvidia...I buy whatever is the best value for around $300 at the time when I do a build...god competition rocks, it's been missing for almost a year and these are great times!)

 

[extra]

"I STILL don't have drivers that increase fan speed on my 3870, forcing me to use rivatuner for it..."

Yeah, but come on. Everyone uses rivatuner it just kicks that much ass. So much better than nvidia or ati's clunky bloated performance tools.

 

[chewietobbacca]

The AT 4850 review is up for those of us who skipped the mainpage

Looks like the 4850 CF puts the GTX 280 to shame

 

[A554SS1N]

Originally posted by: extra

Who the hell plays without AA?

I do, and so does my mate

This 4850 seems pretty sweet regardless though.