ATi 4xxx Series Review

[HOOfan 1]

Legit Reviews compares the HD4850 against the yet to be released 55nm 9800GTX+

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: bamacre
What do you guys think about running two 4850's with this 525W PSU...?

http://www.majortoker.com/images/t3400/t34_power.jpg

Running along with a (stock) Q9450, 4GB DDR2-800, and two hard drives and two optical drives.

You need a way bigger PSU than that.

If you read the AT article on the 4850s, they had to use a 1200w PSU in order to complete all their tests (the system was unstable on a 1000w PSU!).

Try to find something that is certified for the 280GTX in SLI just to be safe.

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

You need a way bigger PSU than that.

If you read the AT article on the 4850s, they had to use a 1200w PSU in order to complete all their tests (the system was unstable on a 1000w PSU!).

Try to find something that is certified for the 280GTX in SLI just to be safe.

That is complete and utter Bullcrap.

Someone in that article didn't know what the hell they were talking about. Their own tests showed that a system running GTX 280 in SLi only pulled 510 Watts. Now startup could pull more than that...but not that much more...and I am sure their 510 Watt measure was in AC draw from the wall (as there really isn't a way for them to measure actual DC usage) So assume their PSU was 85% efficient and the entire system was only using 433 Watts of actual DC power.

For them to say a quality 1000W PSU like the OCZ EliteXstream couldn't run that is just ignorant. If they were having problems then the PSU was not operating at its potential.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1

Originally posted by: SickBeast

You need a way bigger PSU than that.

If you read the AT article on the 4850s, they had to use a 1200w PSU in order to complete all their tests (the system was unstable on a 1000w PSU!).

Try to find something that is certified for the 280GTX in SLI just to be safe.

That is complete and utter Bullcrap.

Someone in that article didn't know what the hell they were talking about. Their own tests showed that a system running GTX 280 in SLi only pulled 510 Watts. Now startup could pull more than that...but not that much more...and I am sure their 510 Watt measure was in AC draw from the wall (as there really isn't a way for them to measure actual DC usage) So assume their PSU was 85% efficient and the entire system was only using 433 Watts of actual DC power.

For them to say a quality 1000W PSU like the OCZ EliteXstream couldn't run that is just ignorant. If they were having problems then the PSU was not operating at its potential.

The overall power draw is not the problem. The problem is that PSUs are only rated for so much voltage on the 12v rail, which is what modern GPUs mostly draw from. Perhaps the 4850s draw an absurd amount on one of the rails where that PSU was weak.

There is no way I would chance two of those cards on a 520w PSU. I couldn't run a single 8800GTS on my 500w Antec PSU without massive instability.

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: SickBeast


For them to say a quality 1000W PSU like the OCZ EliteXstream couldn't run that is just ignorant. If they were having problems then the PSU was not operating at its potential.
The overall power draw is not the problem. The problem is that PSUs are only rated for so much voltage on the 12v rail, which is what modern GPUs mostly draw from. Perhaps the 4850s draw an absurd amount on one of the rails where that PSU was weak.

There is no way I would chance two of those cards on a 520w PSU. I couldn't run a single 8800GTS on my 500w Antec PSU without massive instability.

I am pretty sure you are thinking of the GTX 280 article, not the HD4850 article. Still they are full of crap.

The EliteXstream is capable of 960 Watts on the 12V rail alone. They measured only a 510 Watt AC draw. If they were not getting enough power, then the PSU was deffective.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1

Originally posted by: SickBeast

You need a way bigger PSU than that.

If you read the AT article on the 4850s, they had to use a 1200w PSU in order to complete all their tests (the system was unstable on a 1000w PSU!).

Try to find something that is certified for the 280GTX in SLI just to be safe.

That is complete and utter Bullcrap.

Someone in that article didn't know what the hell they were talking about. Their own tests showed that a system running GTX 280 in SLi only pulled 510 Watts. Now startup could pull more than that...but not that much more...and I am sure their 510 Watt measure was in AC draw from the wall (as there really isn't a way for them to measure actual DC usage) So assume their PSU was 85% efficient and the entire system was only using 433 Watts of actual DC power.

For them to say a quality 1000W PSU like the OCZ EliteXstream couldn't run that is just ignorant. If they were having problems then the PSU was not operating at its potential.

The overall power draw is not the problem. The problem is that PSUs are only rated for so much voltage on the 12v rail, which is what modern GPUs mostly draw from. Perhaps the 4850s draw an absurd amount on one of the rails where that PSU was weak.

There is no way I would chance two of those cards on a 520w PSU. I couldn't run a single 8800GTS on my 500w Antec PSU without massive instability.

520W is more than enough for 2x 4850 + a reasonable high-end system. How much wattage do you really think you are going to use?

2x 4850, 100% TDP = 220W
Intel E8400, 100% TDP (you could OC and still be within TDP on e8400): 65W
Motherboard: Who knows, let's say 40W (probably high estimate)
Memory: No idea, let's say 20W (probably high estimate again)
Hard Drives, Everything Else: Let's say 50W, even though you'd have to be running a crapload of stuff to get anywhere near that.

Even though we are grossly overestimating the power consumption of every component, we are getting 395W, well within acceptable boundaries.

Amperage requirements of these cards should not be a problem for any decent power supply. At 220W, HD 4850 CF should be pulling 18.3 Amps (220/12) for the cards alone. My PSU (Corsair HX520) supports 40A combined Amps on the 12V rail.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
Legit Reviews compares the HD4850 against the yet to be released 55nm 9800GTX+

The GTX+ wins pretty much every benchmark. It sure did not take long for NVIDIA to retake the mid-range lead.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
Legit Reviews compares the HD4850 against the yet to be released 55nm 9800GTX+

Those results don't line up with the other reviews, especially for COD4 where the 9800gtx loses badly. And why are they reviewing a card which will not be available in retail until July? Looks like paper launches are back.

 

[Tempered81]

4850's are 4870's with lower clock & memory speeds & GDDR3 instead of GDDR5. 4850 with an OC for the win!

R700 sports a new Pci-E bridge built in & like RV770 the ROP calcs are reworked & 2.5x as efficient. Crossfire-X R700's could dominate SLI GTX 280's [x12500 GPU in Vantage]

2 more weeks...

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7878.html

http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_24110474/tm.htm

http://www.extremetech.com/ima...228869&sID=1017,00.asp

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1

Originally posted by: SickBeast

You need a way bigger PSU than that.

If you read the AT article on the 4850s, they had to use a 1200w PSU in order to complete all their tests (the system was unstable on a 1000w PSU!).

Try to find something that is certified for the 280GTX in SLI just to be safe.

That is complete and utter Bullcrap.

Someone in that article didn't know what the hell they were talking about. Their own tests showed that a system running GTX 280 in SLi only pulled 510 Watts. Now startup could pull more than that...but not that much more...and I am sure their 510 Watt measure was in AC draw from the wall (as there really isn't a way for them to measure actual DC usage) So assume their PSU was 85% efficient and the entire system was only using 433 Watts of actual DC power.

For them to say a quality 1000W PSU like the OCZ EliteXstream couldn't run that is just ignorant. If they were having problems then the PSU was not operating at its potential.

The overall power draw is not the problem. The problem is that PSUs are only rated for so much voltage on the 12v rail, which is what modern GPUs mostly draw from. Perhaps the 4850s draw an absurd amount on one of the rails where that PSU was weak.

There is no way I would chance two of those cards on a 520w PSU. I couldn't run a single 8800GTS on my 500w Antec PSU without massive instability.

The 1KW PSU they were using has a single 12V rail @ 80A.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817341014

And I am running a 512MB 8800 GTS on my Dell 375W (along with a Q6600) with zero problems. I've run 8800 GTX on the same PSU.

 

[ddarko]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
atreus21 was commenting that he's impressed with 4850 performance. He's not the only one...

@op 4850 xfire should be = gtx 280 when you factor in the games that DON'T scale very well. in games that do scale, it should be quite a bit faster. check out your favorites and see how they do in xfire, if they all scale well then you'll be gtg. what mobo do you have btw?

I think the AT review pretty effectively demonstrates why CF costs less than a GTX280-
they got no/very poor scaling in 3 of 7 games tested.

When you throw microstutter, mouse lag, and other multi card issues into the mix, it becomes apparent that the 4850s are priced appropriately.

That said, I think the 4850 looks to be a very solid performer at it's price point as a single card, and in some games transcends it's price point in CF.

What a joke. A predictable joke but still a joke.

In other words, in the MAJORITY of tests - 4 out of 7 - the $400 solution beats the $650 Nvidia offering. Somehow, for Nvidia's partisans, the glass is always half empty when it comes to another solution that beats the performance of their favored son. Even though the Nvidia solution loses out in the majority of benchmarks, the Nvidia partisans conclude the Nvidia solution has won. Seriously, did you all happen to work on the Clinton campaign staff?

And in the three tests where Crossfire did not scale well, two of them were still giving great playable frame rates at 2560x1600. Bioshock was 55.6 and Quake Wars was 53.7 fps. The only outright disappointment was The Witcher. Put another way, in 6 out of 7 benchmarks, the 4850 Crossfire solution provided gaming results at 2560x1600 that either was either great or extraordinary. Yet this is somehow isn't enough for the Nvidia partisans.

And although they're always quick to point out the allegedly failings of Crossfire, they remain unconcerned when their single GPU solutions don't scale properly. Look at Anand's Bioshock results, which show that the GTX260 barely outdistances the 9800GTX (69 fps vs. 64.6 fps). How come the almighty GTX260 scales so poorly in Bioshock? Why, something MUST be broken with the Nvidia single GPU solution! Stop everybody, don't buy the GTX260 because you see, it doesn't scale like it should! It's obviously defective.

Whatever. The rest of us who don't suffer from their psychosis can actually interpret data properly and acknowledge without reservation that the 4850 in both single and dual configurations is a great solution.

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
Legit Reviews compares the HD4850 against the yet to be released 55nm 9800GTX+

Those results don't line up with the other reviews, especially for COD4 where the 9800gtx loses badly. And why are they reviewing a card which will not be available in retail until July? Looks like paper launches are back.

note it is the 9800GTX+...not the 9800GTX.

This is the first review I have seen of the 9800GTX+

55nm die shrink...higher clocked core and shaders and supposedly some exclusive drivers.

 

[allies]

I love exclusive chea... errr.... DRIVERS

*tongue in cheek*

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
Legit Reviews compares the HD4850 against the yet to be released 55nm 9800GTX+

Those results don't line up with the other reviews, especially for COD4 where the 9800gtx loses badly. And why are they reviewing a card which will not be available in retail until July? Looks like paper launches are back.

FiringSquad just released theirs too. 9800GTX+ won every bench but 1 even with AA, which was a bit of a surprise. Using older 175.16 drivers as well for the 9800GTX+. There's also been OCX/TOP 740MHz GTX available since launch so its not quite a paper launch unless the 55nm core has enhancements, although it might with those AA gains. Short-lived win for AMD, but their improvements in AA and CF are still intriguing.

 

[pcgamer321]

What are the best ATi brands anyways? It's been so long since I've thought of buying an ATi card.

Couple of them.
HIS, Sapphire, Visiontek are all great.
Asus is good as well. Not sure about the others.

*looks throughout the thread* Fanboys....:roll:

 

[airhendrix13]

PLACE YOUR BETS! I bet the 280GTX will be marked down $75 by the end of next week. It's $649.99 right now at the egg, I expect to see it it at $574.99 by Saturday 12pm.

Anyone else got a guess?

This is not the thread for that, use the right thread please

-ViRGE

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: pcgamer321

What are the best ATi brands anyways? It's been so long since I've thought of buying an ATi card.

Couple of them.
HIS, Sapphire, Visiontek are all great.
Asus is good as well. Not sure about the others.

*looks throughout the thread* Fanboys....:roll:

I would NOT put Sapphire on that list. Bad warranty.

I personally prefer VisionTek, if for only one reason, their warranty.

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: airhendrix13
PLACE YOUR BETS! I bet the 280GTX will be marked down $75 by the end of next week. It's $649.99 right now at the egg, I expect to see it it at $574.99 by Saturday 12pm.

Anyone else got a guess?

Does it matter?...just CF your 4850 for $400 and beat 280 by a fair margin.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Wow, the Nvidia fanboyism is strong here... Wreckage, Rollo, and Chizow too! I find it hilarious that you dont recognize how much the 4850 spanks the 9800 GTX in AA (which is what matters) in 80% of the reviews out there, and you cherry pick the one that shows different results... So predictable

I dont know how someone can be so blind, and for a company that doesnt give a shit about consumers

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: airhendrix13
PLACE YOUR BETS! I bet the 280GTX will be marked down $75 by the end of next week. It's $649.99 right now at the egg, I expect to see it it at $574.99 by Saturday 12pm.

Anyone else got a guess?

Does it matter?...just CF your 4850 for $400 and beat 280 by a fair margin.

Except in games that don't scale with Crossfire, like Bioshock, ET:QW, and The Witcher. Even when CF does scale.... the 4850's don't really beat the 280. GTX 280 & HD 4850 CF are pretty much tied most of the time, the advantage is of course the 4850's are cheaper.

I'm still going to take a GTX 280 over HD 4850 CF at the same price. What will be awfully temping at the high end is HD 4870 Crossfire. The HD 4870 will be powerful enough as a single-GPU that when CF doesn't scale it won't be such a big deal. And when it does scale, the results will be pretty amazing.

 

[Tristicus]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: pcgamer321

What are the best ATi brands anyways? It's been so long since I've thought of buying an ATi card.

Couple of them.
HIS, Sapphire, Visiontek are all great.
Asus is good as well. Not sure about the others.

*looks throughout the thread* Fanboys....:roll:

I would NOT put Sapphire on that list. Bad warranty.

I personally prefer VisionTek, if for only one reason, their warranty.

I prefer Diamond personally.

 

[Bill Brasky]

It's so annoying that single slot designs dump the heat into case. In crossfire, two 90C GPU's will do wonders for case temps...

At least the sapphire 4870 will have a dual slot cooler. As per this link.

http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_24110474/tm.htm

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
Legit Reviews compares the HD4850 against the yet to be released 55nm 9800GTX+

Those results don't line up with the other reviews, especially for COD4 where the 9800gtx loses badly. And why are they reviewing a card which will not be available in retail until July? Looks like paper launches are back.

Yeah..me too, I am just surprised that 4850 review started to come out in mass just 24hrs ago and nvidia leaked and shipped a card in that amount of time. Then site had enough time do the reviews for both. Do these editor even sleep. At computerbase.de , they just got a 9800GTX+ and they said review will be up when its finished as they didn't even have enough time to finish the 4850 review.

Also its funny that nvidia said they would never do a paper launch, the 9800GTX+ review are nothing but marketing tactic to get the less tech illiterate into total confusion.

Also firingsquad and legitreview have benchmark that go against the result of other website.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: airhendrix13
PLACE YOUR BETS! I bet the 280GTX will be marked down $75 by the end of next week. It's $649.99 right now at the egg, I expect to see it it at $574.99 by Saturday 12pm.

Anyone else got a guess?

Does it matter?...just CF your 4850 for $400 and beat 280 by a fair margin.

Except in games that don't scale with Crossfire, like Bioshock, ET:QW, and The Witcher. Even when CF does scale.... the 4850's don't really beat the 280. GTX 280 & HD 4850 CF are pretty much tied most of the time, the advantage is of course the 4850's are cheaper.

I'm still going to take a GTX 280 over HD 4850 CF at the same price. What will be awfully temping at the high end is HD 4870 Crossfire. The HD 4870 will be powerful enough as a single-GPU that when CF doesn't scale it won't be such a big deal. And when it does scale, the results will be pretty amazing.

This is exactly right on IMO. I haven't really seen a clear cut winner yet. Definitely HD4850 is a success by any measure, but I think that the real winners will emerge over the next few weeks as prices begin to shake out a little, and these cards find their niche.

I do think the the prices on the GTX 280 and 260 will fall in response to the impressive price/performance ratio of the 48xx cards. Then again, ATI might just keep undercutting. 4850s are already available (on launch day) at $175 AMIR, so I wouldn't rule out $150 4850s by mid-July.

Honestly, last week I was pretty sure I was going with a new P45 mobo and a GTX 280, but things have gotten a bit muddy since then and a lot more interesting.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Wow, the Nvidia fanboyism is strong here... Wreckage, Rollo, and Chizow too! I find it hilarious that you dont recognize how much the 4850 spanks the 9800 GTX in AA (which is what matters) in 80% of the reviews out there, and you cherry pick the one that shows different results... So predictable

I dont know how someone can be so blind, and for a company that doesnt give a shit about consumers

They love sticking up for 9600gt when 3870 was in same shoes as 9800gtx vs 4850 although 3870 was much stronger raw performer than 9600gt. Only when the situation is reversed for Nvidia do they stick up 9800gtx.