ATI 4xxx Series Thread

[Quiksilver]

Something good on TG for once...

RV770 will launch as Radeon 4800 and will make its way into the FireStream stream processor and FireGL workstation cards. Both GDDR3 and GDDR5 memory will be supported by the chip, but ATI itself will only be offering GDDR5 cards. The Radeon 4850 version is set to come to market with an 800+ MHz core (the final clock has not been specified yet and will not be available until the final qualification is completed), while the 4870 will be the first mass-production GPU with a clock speed higher than 1 GHz. Prototype RV770 boards were clocked at about 1.05 GHz.

I have to ask why on that... why not let vendors sell GDDR5 variants too.
Edit: Curse TG, made it confusing for a moment, vendors will get to choose between GDDR5 & GDDR3. Mis-understood it

All I gotta say about that last part is...

:Q



Due to the large number of duplicate threads about this subject I've decide to make this thread the "official" ATi 4xxx thread.

Please keep *all* ATi 4xxx series discussion in this topic (including benchmarks, release dates, clocks speeds, pricing, etc).

Duplicates will be locked.

Thanks for your help in this matter.

Video Mod BFG10K.

----

Originally posted by: Warren21
For those who are having trouble getting information from this thread, I'll try and condense it all here. Please note that AA performance has been "fixed" with the Rx7xx architecture. AA is now done properly on the render back-end (just like Rx5xx) instead of on the shaders (Rx6xx).

Radeon HD 4850 (AKA "RV770Pro")
-DX10.1 / SM4.1 & PCIe 2.0
-160 5-way VLIW shader units (800 SPs); 16 ROPs, 32 TMUs
-625 MHz Core clock
-256-bit bus (512-bit internal)
-512MB of 1000 MHz GDDR3 (2.0 GHz effective); 64 GB/s bandwidth
-1 x 6-pin PEG connectors, single-slot, 9.5"
-1.0 TFLOPs
-MSRP: 199-219 USD; Available June 25th.
Best guess: *=/> 9800 GTX*

Radeon HD 4870 (AKA "RV770XT")
-DX10.1 / SM4.1 & PCIe 2.0
-160 5-way VLIW shader units (800 SPs); 16 ROPs, 32 TMUs
-750-850 MHz Core clock (750 most likely)
-256-bit bus (512-bit internal)
-512MB of 19xx MHz GDDR5 (3.8 GHz effective); 12x.x GB/s bandwidth
-2 x 6-pin PEG connectors, dual-slot, 9.5"
-1.2 TFLOPs
-MSRP: 299-329 USD; Available June 25th.
Best guess: *=/< GTX 260*

I haven't seen any info on R700 in my limited searching in this thread, but here is my most educated and FUD-less guess from what I have read.

Radeon HD 4870 X2 (AKA "R700")
-DX10.1 / SM4.1 & PCIe 2.0 (TRUE PCIe 2.0 with an AMD dev'd PCIe 2.0 bridge chip)
-2 x 160 5-way VLIW shader units (2 x 800 SPs); 2 x 16 ROPs, 2 x 32 TMUs
-750-850 MHz Core clock
-512-bit SHARED bus (1024-internal)
-1024MB of SHARED ?? GHz GDDR5 (?? GHz effective) - Most likely similar to the 4870.
-1 x 6-pin PEG connector + 1 x 8-pin PEG connector, dual-slot, 10.5"
-2.4+ TFLOPs (HD 4870 X2 CrossFireX = 5.0 TFLOP system! *drools*)
-MSRP: 449+ USD; Available late August 2008.
Best guess: *> GTX 280*

I hope that sums it up for anyone looking for it. If anyone wishes, please correct me on this info if you have good reason to believe it is wrong. I will add die sizes/transistor counts once I get more solid info (have read lots of conflicting articles recently.)

Locked as review thread replaces this.

Video Mod BFG10K.

 

[dennilfloss]

Excellent!

 

[JACKDRUID]

ATI will only offer gddr5 cards while vendors get to choose between gddr3 and gddr5.
sounds good ;D

 

[GundamSonicZeroX]

Originally posted by: Quiksilver
I have to ask why on that... why not let vendors sell GDDR5 variants too.

Maybe the vendors don't want to sell GDDR variants (maybe for cost purposes)?

 

[Bateluer]

Good news, hopefully I can use the stimulus check to pick a 4870 or 4870X2.

 

[tvdang7]

i hope its faster than the 8800 gtx..............

 

[Quiksilver]

Well considering the increase in TMU's (32; same as 8800 Ultra/GTX and 9800 series) and it's better overall clocks speed's it should, unless the 256 Bus width limits it...

 

[Piuc2020]

I doubt it will be memory limited considering that GDDR5 gives it bandwidth in the hundreds of GBs which is considerably more than the 8800 Ultra.

The specs make it sound pretty good but I wonder how it will ACTUALLY perform and what the power consumption will be. I'm not sure how they are going to roll GDDR5 in a month and not have any trouble with it but I guess it's wait and see right now.

If the cards are under or around $300 and they perform better than the 9800GTX I might just buy one.

 

[40sTheme]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I doubt it will be memory limited considering that GDDR5 gives it bandwidth in the hundreds of GBs which is considerably more than the 8800 Ultra.

The specs make it sound pretty good but I wonder how it will ACTUALLY perform and what the power consumption will be. I'm not sure how they are going to roll GDDR5 in a month and not have any trouble with it but I guess it's wait and see right now.

If the cards are under or around $300 and they perform better than the 9800GTX I might just buy one.

Agreed on the bus width limitation. GDDR5 speeds will probably provide plenty of room to not worry about the space and cost consequences involved in increasing bus width.

 

[Rusin]

According to specs this card looks like HD3870 X2's theoretical performance numbers put on single GPU solution. So one can expect expensive and hot chip; no HD4870 X2 for a while.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7623.html
Says that first models would use GDDR3 memory.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Quiksilver
Well considering the increase in TMU's (32; same as 8800 Ultra/GTX and 9800 series) and it's better overall clocks speed's it should, unless the 256 Bus width limits it...

What matters isn't the bus width, but the actual bandwidth in MB/s. Bandwidth is determined by bus size, GDDR type, and memory clock-speed.
The expected bandwidth of 256 bus width with DDR5 clocked at the speeds they proclaimed will make this the highest bandwidth card ever made.

The GDDR3 version though will have poor bandwidth

 

[marrr]

im waiting for this to come out so i can upgrade my 850xt

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Ooh, that looks nasty.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
The specs make it sound pretty good but I wonder how it will ACTUALLY perform and what the power consumption will be. I'm not sure how they are going to roll GDDR5 in a month and not have any trouble with it but I guess it's wait and see right now.

One thing that is often underestimated with current (and future) generations AMD graphics cards is the PowerPlay (?). Often times the peak power consumption gets more spotlight, but in my opinion idle power consumption is more important. (Unless you play WOW 24/7) In the past ATI cards were terrible handling power regulation, but that has changed with HD 3000 generation cards and I don't see why AMD wouldn't improve upon it. I think AMD deserves a credit for this feature. My personal concern is more about temperatures than power consumption, and it's refreshing to see a single-slot card that performs decently and sits idle @40~50C (HD 3850).

Back on topic: Assuming the rumor is true, I don't know why AMD keeps going after the 'bleeding edge' with GDDR technology? Will the added bandwidth be justified? I do hope so but AMD has been more wrong than right in this regard so we'll have to wait and see. Supply of GDDR5 could be an issue as well.

 

[Sylvanas]

They seem to be getting the first spin of silicon right for a change after R600.....RV670 was first spin that went so well it came to market early, looks like the same here- good job. There will likely be little doubt that this will be the fastest single card solution for a while....but for how long who knows. Wonder if I can Crossifre them with my current rig .

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: lopri

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
The specs make it sound pretty good but I wonder how it will ACTUALLY perform and what the power consumption will be. I'm not sure how they are going to roll GDDR5 in a month and not have any trouble with it but I guess it's wait and see right now.

One thing that is often underestimated with current (and future) generations AMD graphics cards is the PowerPlay (?). Often times the peak power consumption gets more spotlight, but in my opinion idle power consumption is more important. (Unless you play WOW 24/7) In the past ATI cards were terrible handling power regulation, but that has changed with HD 3000 generation cards and I don't see why AMD wouldn't improve upon it. I think AMD deserves a credit for this feature. My personal concern is more about temperatures than power consumption, and it's refreshing to see a single-slot card that performs decently and sits idle @40~50C (HD 3850).

Back on topic: Assuming the rumor is true, I don't know why AMD keeps going after the 'bleeding edge' with GDDR technology? Will the added bandwidth be justified? I do hope so but AMD has been more wrong than right in this regard so we'll have to wait and see. Supply of GDDR5 could be an issue as well.

The new nvidia cards (the 9 series) have hybrid power, where the video card is completely shut down while not active (on a COMPATIBLE MOTHERBOARD).
AMD has it in the works, it might actually be available in the 4xxx series.
So power play matters less then ever.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/hybrid_sli.html
The intel hybrid power should be out soon.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: taltamir
The new nvidia cards (the 9 series) have hybrid power, where the video card is completely shut down while not active (on a COMPATIBLE MOTHERBOARD).
AMD has it in the works, it might actually be available in the 4xxx series.
So power play matters less then ever.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/hybrid_sli.html
The intel hybrid power should be out soon.

Not sure until when but Hybrid SLI was delayed:
http://www.dailytech.com/NVIDI...d+SLI/article11198.htm

So until it is available in retail features such as Powerplay definitely matter.

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: lopri

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
The specs make it sound pretty good but I wonder how it will ACTUALLY perform and what the power consumption will be. I'm not sure how they are going to roll GDDR5 in a month and not have any trouble with it but I guess it's wait and see right now.

One thing that is often underestimated with current (and future) generations AMD graphics cards is the PowerPlay (?). Often times the peak power consumption gets more spotlight, but in my opinion idle power consumption is more important. (Unless you play WOW 24/7) In the past ATI cards were terrible handling power regulation, but that has changed with HD 3000 generation cards and I don't see why AMD wouldn't improve upon it. I think AMD deserves a credit for this feature. My personal concern is more about temperatures than power consumption, and it's refreshing to see a single-slot card that performs decently and sits idle @40~50C (HD 3850).

Back on topic: Assuming the rumor is true, I don't know why AMD keeps going after the 'bleeding edge' with GDDR technology? Will the added bandwidth be justified? I do hope so but AMD has been more wrong than right in this regard so we'll have to wait and see. Supply of GDDR5 could be an issue as well.

The new nvidia cards (the 9 series) have hybrid power, where the video card is completely shut down while not active (on a COMPATIBLE MOTHERBOARD).
AMD has it in the works, it might actually be available in the 4xxx series.
So power play matters less then ever.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/hybrid_sli.html
The intel hybrid power should be out soon.

Already happens on the AMD 780G chipset with a low end add in card for hybrid Crossfire. As for Intel do you mean the G45? It's having growing pains so i doubt it will be here soon Clicky

Other Items of Interest

Our sources have told us that the Intel G45 is suffering growing pains. The current revision is locked at a 667MHz GPU core speed and the VC1/H.264 decoder capabilities are turned off. A new revision will be available in July with the 800MHz GPU core speed and VC1/H.264 decoder capabilities turned on. In essence, the first chipsets (if they are available) will be nothing more than a G35+. We will update this information as we receive additional information.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: taltamir
The new nvidia cards (the 9 series) have hybrid power, where the video card is completely shut down while not active (on a COMPATIBLE MOTHERBOARD).
AMD has it in the works, it might actually be available in the 4xxx series.
So power play matters less then ever.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/hybrid_sli.html
The intel hybrid power should be out soon.

Not sure until when but Hybrid SLI was delayed:
http://www.dailytech.com/NVIDI...d+SLI/article11198.htm

So until it is available in retail features such as Powerplay definitely matter.

hybrid SLI is not hybrid power. Hybrid power is already available with GF9 + 5 amd chipsets from nvidia...

Already happens on the AMD 780G chipset with a low end add in card for hybrid Crossfire. As for Intel do you mean the G45? It's having growing pains so i doubt it will be here soon Clicky

Even better, I guess AMD already has it down pat.

By intel i meant an nforce for intel motherboard. not G45.

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: Quiksilver
Well considering the increase in TMU's (32; same as 8800 Ultra/GTX and 9800 series) and it's better overall clocks speed's it should, unless the 256 Bus width limits it...

What matters isn't the bus width, but the actual bandwidth in MB/s. Bandwidth is determined by bus size, GDDR type, and memory clock-speed.
The expected bandwidth of 256 bus width with DDR5 clocked at the speeds they proclaimed will make this the highest bandwidth card ever made.

The GDDR3 version though will have poor bandwidth

I would expect their to be some limitations when AA + AF are enabled with the smaller bus width though or am I wrong somewhere?

I would have to agree with the GDDR3 though, I just don't see it being able to do as well when compared to GDDR5 clock speeds, unless the vendors plan on releasing passively cooled cards using GDDR3. It's the only feasible idea I would think they would go with GDDR3 over GDDR5.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: taltamir
hybrid SLI is not hybrid power. Hybrid power is already available with GF9 + 5 amd chipsets from nvidia...

From the Daily Tech article:
"The basics of Hybrid SLI aren't very difficult to understand. The term itself envelopes two different NVIDIA technologies, GeForce Boost and HybridPower."

I tried searching but was unable to find motherboards based on those 5 chipsets. Got any links to places selling any of them?

 

[bryanW1995]

why would they offer gddr3 and gddr5 but not gddr4? Is there some sort of cost advantage with gddr5? This could be an area where amd can use their price advantage from using 55nm, however. If they can be cheaper across the board than gt200 plus use gddr5 then they could negate most if not all of the 384/512 bit bus advantage.

the recent rv770 rumors look very enticing, but I think that I'll still hold out to see what gt200 has to offer.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
why would they offer gddr3 and gddr5 but not gddr4? Is there some sort of cost advantage with gddr5?

Not cost right now I think but bandwidth and lower power usage maybe? I thing the main advantage of GDDR3 right now is cost compared to GDDR4/5.

 

[tuteja1986]

I just hope :! this card should beat up 8800U ... its still the single core fastest GPU.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
why would they offer gddr3 and gddr5 but not gddr4? Is there some sort of cost advantage with gddr5? This could be an area where amd can use their price advantage from using 55nm, however. If they can be cheaper across the board than gt200 plus use gddr5 then they could negate most if not all of the 384/512 bit bus advantage.

the recent rv770 rumors look very enticing, but I think that I'll still hold out to see what gt200 has to offer.

Maybe, just maybe for whatever reasons, GDDR4 is more expensive to manufacture than either GDDR3 or GDDR5. GDDR3 is still plenty fast enough for graphics cards these days (it would seem), 2200MHz is no slouch. GDDR5 should send this clock speed into orbit.

It would seem, with the exception of a few ATI models, that GDDR4 offered no real improvement over GDDR3 to justify it's cost? I dunno.