ATI 4xxx Series Thread

[Grinja]

Originally posted by: nRollo

3. That is what that level of performance is worth in 2008, which would be good for all.

:thumbsup:

 

[JACKDRUID]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
um, I didn't quote any sources to you because something that is accepted as fact needs no source. Why don't we ask keysplayr or rollo to ask around about this. It's not a crime to accelerate your product launch, however, so I'm unclear about your purpose in challenging this widely-held belief.

In otherwords, you made an assumption.

The single slot cooler is another issue, however. I'll tell you, that was a major reason that I bought a 3870 instead. The 8800gt cooler is barely adequate for a stock system and inadequate for the numerous oc variants that abound. It doesn't matter WHY this is the case, so again I'm confused as to your motives? Are you an nvidia employee? A viral marketer? A blind fanboy? Or are you just so blinded by all the postive nvidia press that you can't see the warts underneath the surface?

? I have a x800.... Ati fanboy
please stop pulling this fanboism bs.

 

[Janooo]

RV770 - June 16; GT200 - June 18

Information leaking! Radeon HD 4800 VS. GeForce GTX 200!

We learned from HKEPC that long subsided graphics card market will break out again, NVIDIA and AMD will both introduce an entirely new generation of high-end graphics cards in June. AMD will introduce the new ATI Radeon HD 4800 family, and for the first time it will use GDDR5 video memory. NVIDIA will introduce so-called second-generation Unified Shader the GeForce GTX 200 family, to secure hegemony in high-end graphics cards market.

According to Taiwan's graphics cards maker, on June 16 AMD plans to release the new ATI Radeon HD 4800 family, the core code-named RV770, the first introduced model is ATI Radeon HD 4850, the numbers of Shader Processing Units will be 480, using GDDR3 video memory, the price is about $ 229 U.S. dollars.

June 23, AMD will release ATI Radeon HD 4870, its specifications will be the same as Radeon HD 4850, but the core clock will be further improved, and video memory will switch to the new GDDR5, its price will be at $ 349 U.S. dollars.

However, industry noted that the release of ATI Radeon HD 4870 at June 23 will be Paper Launch, the official shipping date will be slightly delayed, mainly because GDDR5 memory supply shortage. The supply of GDDR5 video memory will be key point for the situation of Radeon HD 4870 availability.

In addition, AMD also plans to introduce a new generation of dual-chip graphics cards-R700, or ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2, it?s expected to formally be shipped at the end of the third quarter to the beginning of the fourth quarter, the price is about $ 549 U.S. dollars.

Facing a new generation of AMD Radeon HD 4800s, NVIDIA dare not neglect, in the June 18, it will launch brand new GeForce GTX 200 series, high-end graphics card to secure hegemony. The code name once was G100, then was GT200, now officially known as D10U, meaning the 10th generation of the Ultra graphics chip, and the product name is also changed from GeForce 9900 family to GeForce GTX 200 family, which means the second generation of Unified Shader architecture, it will market a new market image.

It's said that, GeForce GTX 200 will be launched with two models, including the GeForce GTX 260 and GeForce GTX 280, but the price, specifications have not yet announced.

 

[Janooo]

Some GDDR5 issues.

ATI now focuses on improving the RV770 drivers

We learnt that ATI's Catalyst team is now working hard to improve the performance of RV770 drivers.

With current driver ATI can get, there's no obvious performance differentia between 4850 and 4870 with same clocks. So this means the current driver can not dig the potential of GDD5 out of 4870. Graphics Cards maker in Taiwan told us that the GDDR5 video ram sample of RV770 came from Qimonda with 512Mb(16Mbx32-bit) configuration and 4GHz default speed, but due to the complexity design of the 4870 PCB which is not the same as 4850 PCB, and the immature driver, now 4870 can not reach to 4GHz.

If the video ram of 4870 can not be steady at 4GHz in time, ATI may use the alternate plan to use GDDR5 video ram from Qimonda at 4.5GHz default speed, apparently the plan B will increase the cost of 4870 tremendously.

 

[AzN]

http://www.vr-zone.com/article...On_June_18th/5777.html

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: Janooo
Some GDDR5 issues.

ATI now focuses on improving the RV770 drivers

We learnt that ATI's Catalyst team is now working hard to improve the performance of RV770 drivers.

With current driver ATI can get, there's no obvious performance differentia between 4850 and 4870 with same clocks. So this means the current driver can not dig the potential of GDD5 out of 4870. Graphics Cards maker in Taiwan told us that the GDDR5 video ram sample of RV770 came from Qimonda with 512Mb(16Mbx32-bit) configuration and 4GHz default speed, but due to the complexity design of the 4870 PCB which is not the same as 4850 PCB, and the immature driver, now 4870 can not reach to 4GHz.

If the video ram of 4870 can not be steady at 4GHz in time, ATI may use the alternate plan to use GDDR5 video ram from Qimonda at 4.5GHz default speed, apparently the plan B will increase the cost of 4870 tremendously.

Huh? I thought Qimonda had only one type of ram just in different segments. They are all the same speed but are cherry picked for different clock speeds.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
before apoppin pulled his disappear-arooskie, he was predicting gt200 very close to rv770. He thought that rv770 would debut in late april/early may, too, so he must have been thinking june for gt200. He never gave me his source for the gt200 info, but I'm pretty confident that it was somebody in the know Sadly, I don't think that he had ANY sources in the ati camp, even though he was their biggest fan. We need some canuks to go snoop around ati hq and see what's cookin...

I must have missed the drama where he "quit" AT as well. What was that all about?

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Rusin

Originally posted by: munky
I must have missed the memo on the gt200 launching before rv770, because, quite frankly, I find it hard to believe.

Why? There was already news of GT200 hitting 'taped out'-status at early March and that they had working GT200 prototype-cards already early April.

..but yes it's hard to believe that GT200 would launch before RV770..I mean if there would be signigicant difference? Latest rumours have predicted mid June launch for both of them.

Every year I hear of rumors like "Nvidia's next big bad gpu is all taped out and is just waiting in the wings for Ati", so I tend to dismiss those as wild speculation. Although, given how it's been 18 months since the g80 release, I'd like the rumor to be true this time around. The sooner the gt200 is launched, the better.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
um, I didn't quote any sources to you because something that is accepted as fact needs no source. Why don't we ask keysplayr or rollo to ask around about this. It's not a crime to accelerate your product launch, however, so I'm unclear about your purpose in challenging this widely-held belief.

In otherwords, you made an assumption.

The single slot cooler is another issue, however. I'll tell you, that was a major reason that I bought a 3870 instead. The 8800gt cooler is barely adequate for a stock system and inadequate for the numerous oc variants that abound. It doesn't matter WHY this is the case, so again I'm confused as to your motives? Are you an nvidia employee? A viral marketer? A blind fanboy? Or are you just so blinded by all the postive nvidia press that you can't see the warts underneath the surface?

? I have a x800.... Ati fanboy
please stop pulling this fanboism bs.

them's fightin' words!!

I didn't call you a fanboy, I simply asked the question. Maybe I hurt your feelings by "implying" it, but really, can anybody be called an nvidia "fanboy" anymore? If you had spent any time here over the past 6 mos you would know that I have been strongly pushing nvidia cards b/c of their price/performance advantage. In fact, I was accused a couple of weeks ago of being an nvidia fanboy. I have owned a lot of graphics cards since I started building my own computers. here's a list from the top of my head:

geforce 2 gts - still own, in my xp 2500+ rig
geforce 4000 mx pci -still own
6200 LE
9800 pro 128mb
6600gt - still own
7300gt - fanless, in my q9450 rig
7600gt
1950xt 256mb
3870

all of those were bought based upon the factors that were important to ME at the time. most of them were very good for price/performance. The 3870 was 15-20% less than the 8800gt when I bought it, it is universally accepted to have better cooling, and is generally accepted to have better driver support over time (based upon what I've read over the past nine months from people much more knowledgeable than me about gpus: bfg10k and apoppin come to mind, but many others, too). I realize that it's not worth your time to actually read more than a few threads here in video, but if you ever decide to then you won't need 18 links "proving" somebody else's point because you'll already know what he's getting at.

btw, I am leaning towards a gt200 b/c I think that it will be a LOT faster than 4870. the only advantage that 4870 has that I can see right now is lower power usage, possibly quieter fan (due to the lower power), and its ability to run f@h. gt200 is almost definitely going to be all that we as gamers look for in a card: ie, FPS.

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
btw, I am leaning towards a gt200 b/c I think that it will be a LOT faster than 4870. the only advantage that 4870 has that I can see right now is lower power usage, possibly quieter fan (due to the lower power), and its ability to run f@h. gt200 is almost definitely going to be all that we as gamers look for in a card: ie, FPS.

You missed price

 

[JACKDRUID]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
The 3870 was 15-20% less than the 8800gt when I bought it, it is universally accepted to have better cooling,

which I agree, and it runs cooler and uses less power as well.

BUT it does not imply 8800gt was released in a hurry as you believed. Nvidia mid-high range cards have traditionally had bad coolers, while performing well.
TI 4200, loud cooler, few models overheats
6800GT, loud cooler
7800gt, loud cooler compare to its gtx variation

ATI, on the other hand, has always had better cooler for its mid-high range cards, but its top cards are always cooler-problematic.
9800pro - overheats
x800/850 - loud , runs hot but rarely overheat
1800/1900 - ...LOUD! runs normally at 90 degrees
2900xt - better but stll hot and loud
3700 is actually pretty good.

^
||
||
are true statements based on past reviews and can be varified.

Your statement about 8800gt was released early, bad cooler due to the rush, was completely based on fud.

btw, I am leaning towards a gt200 b/c I think that it will be a LOT faster than 4870. the only advantage that 4870 has that I can see right now is lower power usage, possibly quieter fan (due to the lower power), and its ability to run f@h. gt200 is almost definitely going to be all that we as gamers look for in a card: ie, FPS.

performance lead don't usually last more than 2 generations... nvidia already had 7800/8800, its about time for a lead change...

on the other hand, nvidia had more time to prepare gt2000 than ATI.. so.. i don't know..

 

[bryanW1995]

We're just going to have to disagree on the 8800gt release. It's hard to find fault with anything else that you wrote there. I actually think that 4870x2 will be faster than gt200, but it will be "faster" the way that 3870x2 was faster, ie, quite a bit faster is some titles but sucky in others. That is not a solution that most of us are going to be interested in.

 

[Rusin]

Well 9800 GX2 won HD3870 X2 40-55% in timedemos and with larger margin in games. Depending on what kind of efficiency X2 will this time have?
-----

http://www.vr-zone.com/article...On_June_18th/5777.html
Release times:
HD4850 - June 18 - hard laucnh
HD4870 - June 25 - paper launch, retail availability at July due to GDDR5 yields
HD4870 X2 - Somewhere in Q3
----

Now when will Nvidia get 55nm dieshrink from GT200? and could that fight against HD4870 X2? Could there even be dual card? GT200 with 55nm should be G92..ish in size..what would be power consumption?

Nvidia will launch Geforce GTX 280 and GTX 260 with GT200 65nm slightly earlier than HD4850..and word is that they have 55nm version already on the works.

 

[n7]

Hmm, so the HD 4800s will not only be likely a lot slower than the next gen nV cards, but later too

If AMD doesn't price these well, it's going to be a repeat of the beating they got from the 8800 GT/GTS, etc.

 

[daveybrat]

Originally posted by: n7
Hmm, so the HD 4800s will not only be likely a lot slower than the next gen nV cards, but later too

If AMD doesn't price these well, it's going to be a repeat of the beating they got from the 8800 GT/GTS, etc.

If ATI prices these properly, i'll switch camps from Nvidia to ATI. If they don't then i'll just stick with my 8800GTS for a while

 

[nonameo]

Originally posted by: daveybrat

Originally posted by: n7
Hmm, so the HD 4800s will not only be likely a lot slower than the next gen nV cards, but later too

If AMD doesn't price these well, it's going to be a repeat of the beating they got from the 8800 GT/GTS, etc.

If ATI prices these properly, i'll switch camps from Nvidia to ATI. If they don't then i'll just stick with my 8800GTS for a while

If beat and rebeat are on a boat, and they both fall off, who is left?

ATI.

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: nonameo
If beat and rebeat are on a boat, and they both fall off, who is left?

Can O'worms?

 

[bryanW1995]

ati has 2 major problems right now.
1. they can't touch nvidia on the high end
2. they're not price-competitive in any $100+ category, either.

rv770 SHOULD rectify #2, and r700 could even fix #1. Keep in mind that other than 9900gtx/gts or whatever the heck they're going to call them, nvidia is going to be using g92-based gpus to fight amd's rv770. Most of us think that 4870 won't hold beat gt200, but if it's priced against 8800gts512 and has better performance, which one would you buy for $200? It's going to be an interesting summer, that's for sure...

 

[Rusin]

Bryan:
It seems that Nvidia doesn't have near any kind of solution against HD4870. They'll have good enough product against HD4870 X2 and they can fight against HD4850 with G92b since that Radeon will use GDDR3 and will be bottlenecked. There's possible problem with HD4870 since Qimonda's 4.0GHz spec'd GDDR5 have had poor yields and AMD could be forced to use 4.5GHz spec'd memory which is MUCH more expensive, but doesn't have that kind of problems.

9800 GT with G92b could be intresting and could be placed, if necessary at 9600 GT's price point..and there should be 9600 GT with 55nm some day since G94b is already ready, but all of those chips so far have gone to their mobile graphics card solutions.
---

There have been some words about cheaper GT200-generation SKUs already, but those cards won't arrive anytime soon

 

[JPB]

Originally posted by: Rusin
Bryan:
It seems that Nvidia doesn't have near any kind of solution against HD4870. They'll have good enough product against HD4870 X2 and they can fight against HD4850 with G92b since that Radeon will use GDDR3 and will be bottlenecked. There's possible problem with HD4870 since Qimonda's 4.0GHz spec'd GDDR5 have had poor yields and AMD could be forced to use 4.5GHz spec'd memory which is MUCH more expensive, but doesn't have that kind of problems.

9800 GT with G92b could be intresting and could be placed, if necessary at 9600 GT's price point..and there should be 9600 GT with 55nm some day since G94b is already ready, but all of those chips so far have gone to their mobile graphics card solutions.
---

There have been some words about cheaper GT200-generation SKUs already, but those cards won't arrive anytime soon

RV770XT to etail for $229

Another great price


ATI's Radeon RV770XT based cards powered with GDDR5 memory will end up with a $229 suggested etail price and it?s likely to drop quickly to under $200 mark. This is the price for 512MB card that should be the top of the mainstream / performance line of ATI RV770 generation.

Naturally, the RV770PRO card with 512MB of GDDR3 memory will end up cheaper and it will launch at under $200 suggested etail price.

RV770XT will replace Radeon 3870 512MB cards on the market while RV770PRO should replace 3850 cards of live on top of them.

We believe that ATI won?t kill its affordable Radeon 3870 and 3850 cards and will make them co-exist with RV770 based products, at least for the time being.

I know its Faud. But if true......:Q

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: JPB

Originally posted by: Rusin
Bryan:
It seems that Nvidia doesn't have near any kind of solution against HD4870. They'll have good enough product against HD4870 X2 and they can fight against HD4850 with G92b since that Radeon will use GDDR3 and will be bottlenecked. There's possible problem with HD4870 since Qimonda's 4.0GHz spec'd GDDR5 have had poor yields and AMD could be forced to use 4.5GHz spec'd memory which is MUCH more expensive, but doesn't have that kind of problems.

9800 GT with G92b could be intresting and could be placed, if necessary at 9600 GT's price point..and there should be 9600 GT with 55nm some day since G94b is already ready, but all of those chips so far have gone to their mobile graphics card solutions.
---

There have been some words about cheaper GT200-generation SKUs already, but those cards won't arrive anytime soon

RV770XT to etail for $229

Another great price


<<ATI's Radeon RV770XT based cards powered with GDDR5 memory will end up with a $229 suggested etail price and it?s likely to drop quickly to under $200 mark. This is the price for 512MB card that should be the top of the mainstream / performance line of ATI RV770 generation.

Naturally, the RV770PRO card with 512MB of GDDR3 memory will end up cheaper and it will launch at under $200 suggested etail price.

RV770XT will replace Radeon 3870 512MB cards on the market while RV770PRO should replace 3850 cards of live on top of them.

We believe that ATI won?t kill its affordable Radeon 3870 and 3850 cards and will make them co-exist with RV770 based products, at least for the time being.

I know its Faud. But if true......:Q

:beer: if thats true.

 

[JPB]

Originally posted by: Sylvanas

Originally posted by: JPB

Originally posted by: Rusin
Bryan:
It seems that Nvidia doesn't have near any kind of solution against HD4870. They'll have good enough product against HD4870 X2 and they can fight against HD4850 with G92b since that Radeon will use GDDR3 and will be bottlenecked. There's possible problem with HD4870 since Qimonda's 4.0GHz spec'd GDDR5 have had poor yields and AMD could be forced to use 4.5GHz spec'd memory which is MUCH more expensive, but doesn't have that kind of problems.

9800 GT with G92b could be intresting and could be placed, if necessary at 9600 GT's price point..and there should be 9600 GT with 55nm some day since G94b is already ready, but all of those chips so far have gone to their mobile graphics card solutions.
---

There have been some words about cheaper GT200-generation SKUs already, but those cards won't arrive anytime soon

RV770XT to etail for $229

Another great price


<<<<ATI's Radeon RV770XT based cards powered with GDDR5 memory will end up with a $229 suggested etail price and it?s likely to drop quickly to under $200 mark. This is the price for 512MB card that should be the top of the mainstream / performance line of ATI RV770 generation.

Naturally, the RV770PRO card with 512MB of GDDR3 memory will end up cheaper and it will launch at under $200 suggested etail price.

RV770XT will replace Radeon 3870 512MB cards on the market while RV770PRO should replace 3850 cards of live on top of them.

We believe that ATI won?t kill its affordable Radeon 3870 and 3850 cards and will make them co-exist with RV770 based products, at least for the time being.

I know its Faud. But if true......:Q

:beer: if thats true.

Yep I agree totally. The 4870 is what I am waiting for to finish up the two builds in my sig. One for me and one for my wife :thumbsup:

Heres a :beer: hoping for great prices.

If this is indeed true...wonder what the 3870 and X2 variant will drop to ?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: JPB

Originally posted by: Rusin
Bryan:
It seems that Nvidia doesn't have near any kind of solution against HD4870. They'll have good enough product against HD4870 X2 and they can fight against HD4850 with G92b since that Radeon will use GDDR3 and will be bottlenecked. There's possible problem with HD4870 since Qimonda's 4.0GHz spec'd GDDR5 have had poor yields and AMD could be forced to use 4.5GHz spec'd memory which is MUCH more expensive, but doesn't have that kind of problems.

9800 GT with G92b could be intresting and could be placed, if necessary at 9600 GT's price point..and there should be 9600 GT with 55nm some day since G94b is already ready, but all of those chips so far have gone to their mobile graphics card solutions.
---

There have been some words about cheaper GT200-generation SKUs already, but those cards won't arrive anytime soon

RV770XT to etail for $229

Another great price


<ATI's Radeon RV770XT based cards powered with GDDR5 memory will end up with a $229 suggested etail price and it?s likely to drop quickly to under $200 mark. This is the price for 512MB card that should be the top of the mainstream / performance line of ATI RV770 generation.

Naturally, the RV770PRO card with 512MB of GDDR3 memory will end up cheaper and it will launch at under $200 suggested etail price.

RV770XT will replace Radeon 3870 512MB cards on the market while RV770PRO should replace 3850 cards of live on top of them.

We believe that ATI won?t kill its affordable Radeon 3870 and 3850 cards and will make them co-exist with RV770 based products, at least for the time being.

I know its Faud. But if true......:Q

If it's true it's bad news for AMD.

AMD is not in a position to give away cards right now, and if the price is that low, the performance of these cards will reflect that as well.

They would price them higher if they could, and that is likely bad news for all who like the idea of two GPU manufacturers to choose from.

If these things offer 9800GTX level performance for $30 less, the floodgates of sales aren't going to open for AMD with people thinking "Finally. I have been waiting to get 9800GTX performance for $30 less!".

Oh no. If that is what's coming in June, they'll sell cards here and there to their fans, and that's about it. The more we see of the upcoming product launches, the more I'm reminded of "The more things change, the more they stay the same".

 

[JPB]

In my opinion, I would much rather pay $229 for 3870X2 performance, than probably more than $500 for 9800GX2 performance. As I am sure a lot of others would as well.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: JPB
RV770XT to etail for $229

Another great price


<<<ATI's Radeon RV770XT based cards powered with GDDR5 memory will end up with a $229 suggested etail price and it?s likely to drop quickly to under $200 mark. This is the price for 512MB card that should be the top of the mainstream / performance line of ATI RV770 generation.

Naturally, the RV770PRO card with 512MB of GDDR3 memory will end up cheaper and it will launch at under $200 suggested etail price.

RV770XT will replace Radeon 3870 512MB cards on the market while RV770PRO should replace 3850 cards of live on top of them.

We believe that ATI won?t kill its affordable Radeon 3870 and 3850 cards and will make them co-exist with RV770 based products, at least for the time being.

I know its Faud. But if true......:Q

If it's true it's bad news for AMD.

AMD is not in a position to give away cards right now, and if the price is that low, the performance of these cards will reflect that as well.

They would price them higher if they could, and that is likely bad news for all who like the idea of two GPU manufacturers to choose from.

If these things offer 9800GTX level performance for $30 less, the floodgates of sales aren't going to open for AMD with people thinking "Finally. I have been waiting to get 9800GTX performance for $30 less!".

Oh no. If that is what's coming in June, they'll sell cards here and there to their fans, and that's about it. The more we see of the upcoming product launches, the more I'm reminded of "The more things change, the more they stay the same".

If the rumored rv770 specs are true, I expect it to handily beat the 9800gtx in most benches. Maybe AMD can afford to sell these so cheap because they are using a smaller 55nm process, and a much smaller die size than the gt200, not because they're giving the cards away.