ATI 4xxx Series Thread

[Redstorm]

I'm sceptical about the 800 Shaders rumour, The pricing for these cards suggest that it is smoke and mirrors to throw nVidia.

@ the pricing I would say 480 shaders only.

1.4 x the speed of a 9800GTX is nice.

I can't wait to see power consumption numbers as i can't justify putting a small thermal reactor in my PC.

Hybrid power I like , and wonder if AMD will catch up in with this generation.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Janooo
At least the charts don't start at 0.8

LOL.

remember, that's b/c amd's marketing dept is run by nemesis. nvidia's marketing dept is run by rollo. hmmmm, I wonder why nvidia has been killing ati for years...

the problem with having the small thermal reactor is that you need the same type of cooling that nuclear reactors use...h2O.

 

[Nemesis 1]

bryanW1995 please change that AMD to ATI . LOL ATI has been behind the 8 ball for a good long time its true. Lets hope that ATI and NV both bring out ass kicking cards .

Make everyone happy . Except for the Video card forum mods . If these cards are really close its going to be crazy in the video section thats for fact.

Ati fans well be saying NV doesn't work with DX10.1 and the NV guys will be saying . Its not fair comparison because it took 2 ATI gpus to put down the 280.

Either way we all come out winners with the exception of the forum mods all over the net.

 

[MarcVenice]

Can't wait for these cards to hit the shelf. Right now, from what rumours and leaked info I've seen, it will probably be a HD4870 around the end of the year ...

 

[Extelleron]

Surprisingly, given the results we have right now, it looks like the RV770 cards will be strongest in situations with AA/AF.... much different than R600 parts. Here is a comparison of HD 4850 performance in 3D Mark 06 @ 2560x1600 8xAA/16xAF vs. the 8800GTX:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/show...1174659&postcount=3221

HD 4850 is ~43% (SM2) and ~63% (SM3) faster than the 8800GTX in these tests. And one would think that at these settings, the HD 4850 is bandwidth limited.

 

[Leon]

R700 is high end, not RV770. The HD 4870 will compete with the 9800GTX directly, so why not compare them?

R700 is a vaporware, intended to be fall release (read - months away!) . RV770 and GTX280 are in full production, available in a week. Anything beyond that is a speculation.

Leon

 

[Leon]

Here is a comparison of HD 4850 performance in 3D Mark 06 @ 2560x1600 8xAA/16xAF vs. the 8800GTX

At 256-x1600 8xAA, 512Mb videocards will lower \ drop AA altogether, as it exceeds the memory. Dont get your hopes up.

Leon

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: Leon

R700 is high end, not RV770. The HD 4870 will compete with the 9800GTX directly, so why not compare them?

R700 is a vaporware, intended to be fall release (read - months away!) . RV770 and GTX280 are in full production, available in a week. Anything beyond that is a speculation.

Leon

Vaporware?

Vaporware refers to software that has been talked about but will never be finished/released (i.e. Duke Nukem Forever, although there is still hope )

HD 4870 X2 will be here in August. And we will know how it performs on June 25th, because it will be just about the same (if anything a bit faster) than HD 4870 Crossfire.

There really is no speculation. We know HD 4870 X2 is coming, it is not a rumor.

Even if R700 never came out, that would not change a thing I said. The HD 4870 will compete with the 9800GTX, no matter what happens in the $500 market. nVidia will not drop the price of the GTX 260 down to 4870 levels, although they are supposedly considering a drop to $399.

 

[Leon]

HD 4870 X2 will be here in August. And we will know how it performs on June 25th

Yep. 2 months from "performance test" to release = vaporware. Dont be surprised to see higher binned GTX280 with DDR5 in two months, after all, we know its coming, its not a rumor.

Leon

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: Leon

HD 4870 X2 will be here in August. And we will know how it performs on June 25th

Yep. 2 months from "performance test" to release = vaporware. Dont be surprised to see higher binned GTX280 with DDR5 in two months, after all, we know its coming, its not a rumor.

Leon

I highly doubt you will see HD 4870 X2 tested this month. But you can estimate its performance by looking at 4870 CF.

4870 X2 is set in stone; it is not some rumored part. It is absolutely coming, it is set in stone.

Higher binned GT200 with GDDR5 would be a rumor. You don't know it's coming, in fact I can promise you it will not. nVidia has said they will not be using GDDR5 until 2009.

 

[HOOfan 1]

4870X2 is supposed to come in August

GDDR5 might come with a refresh of GT200 and a 55nm die shrink

GTX 285 maybe?

the 5 could stand for GDDR5 or 55nm

 

[chewietobbacca]

lol 4870 and 4850 are the only cards being tested this month

So there's no performance test to release

And if there is, it'd be called a paper launch

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: nonameo
I don't get why the 4870 keeps getting compared to the 9800GTX. That is THIS generation's high end. The 4870 is supposed to be the NEXT generation's high end!

Maybe the fact that we don't know how fast the g200 is has something to do with that. In either case, those slides look close to what I would expect from the rv770. Extra credit for scaling the graphs properly.

The answer is MONEY!

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Leon

R700 is high end, not RV770. The HD 4870 will compete with the 9800GTX directly, so why not compare them?

R700 is a vaporware, intended to be fall release (read - months away!) . RV770 and GTX280 are in full production, available in a week. Anything beyond that is a speculation.

Leon

Vaporware?

Vaporware refers to software that has been talked about but will never be finished/released (i.e. Duke Nukem Forever, although there is still hope )

HD 4870 X2 will be here in August. And we will know how it performs on June 25th, because it will be just about the same (if anything a bit faster) than HD 4870 Crossfire.

There really is no speculation. We know HD 4870 X2 is coming, it is not a rumor.

Even if R700 never came out, that would not change a thing I said. The HD 4870 will compete with the 9800GTX, no matter what happens in the $500 market. nVidia will not drop the price of the GTX 260 down to 4870 levels, although they are supposedly considering a drop to $399.

God you just made me laugh so hard. At the same time this poped into my head .
Hay INTEL listen up . I got an Idea for ya. Its really good to. I mean really really good.

Buy what their is of the Duke nuke em game. Than release it with Larrabee. The publity it would generate would be like the untouchables. Hard to stop.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I hope the use of GDDR5 doesn't come back to bite AMD/ATI back. Its a rather new memory technology that hasn't been used/tested on any commercial products as of now. This is very similiar to GDDR2 and NV30 (and we know how that turned out). If theres problems on the memory supply, then we could potentially see the HD4870 either being delayed or very few in quantity. Current rumours seem to indicate that HD4850 is on track with schedule but HD4870 with GDDR5 may potentially be delayed. Im not sure if theres any working HD4870s out there, seeing as all the rumored benchmark figures are from HD4850.

 

[taltamir]

or we will see more GDDR4 and GDDR3 variants... the core can work with 3, 4, or 5.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Ha, Ha, I love pr battles. Ati says 800, but the nv says 160.

PR or not the fact remains four out of the five units are limited compared to the fifth one, unlike nVdia's SPs that can do everything. This requires a lot more massaging from the driver unlike nVidia's solution which almost dynamically balances itself.

Didn't know you could massage a driver? We'll be back to shiny pipes soon. Anyways I thought the big weakness in the 3800 series was dramatic slow down with aa and af. These leaked (maybe fake) benchmarks seem to suggest that is fixed. Always the optimist, I am thinking these new cards will surprise.

I still like pr battles.

 

[taltamir]

nono.. the DRIVER massages the SPs.
although you knew what he meant...

 

[JPB]

Radeon 4870 to beat 9800GTX

To challenge Geforce GTX 260


We've learned that ATI plans to put a lot of pressure on Nvidia as the Radeon HD 4870 will end up faster than the Geforce 9800GTX. This is the card that ATI wants to target with its new performance card and it looks like ATI is the winner in this game.

We?ve also heard that ATI expects to win against the Geforce GTX 260, especially when it comes to the price/performance ratio and we?ve learned that ATI should win at least some of the benchmarks or at least get close.

From all we know today, ATI?s card will end up cheaper which might make it more attractive, but it looks as if ATI will continue to mess with Nvidia?s plans. They messed up Nvidia?s suggested retail price with the RV670 and they don?t seem to stop with RV770 generation.

 

[unr3al]

What a colossal thread. Here's my two bits' worth. Dont know if anyone has posted them already, but this is interesting indeed:

Radeon HD4870X2 Faster Than GTX280, no Microstuttering?
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7845.html

RV770 has 800 SPs, breaks 1.2TFLOPS, final clocks
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7841.html

Radeon HD 4870, 4850 performance slides
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7854.html

NVIDIA shakened by Radeon HD 4800, lowers prices?
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7853.html

 

[BFG10K]

AFAIK the fat ALU handles things like transcendental functions, and those instructions need a separate unit on Nvidia's HW as well, they can't be processed by all ALU's.

My understanding was the regular ALUs do these also but it takes more than one cycle, unlike the simpler instructions that are done in one cycle. Also ATi?s fifth unit can?t do some things the other four can like integer ADD.

The fact is ATi?s VLIW requires more work with respect to optimal instruction scheduling than nVidia?s superscalar architecture.

Are ATI's set up like a pipeline, or sitting in parrallel? I thought it was the former.

They?re in parallel but they depend on an optimal mix of instructions to attain maximum performance.

 

[JPB]

Originally posted by: unr3al
What a colossal thread. Here's my two bits' worth. Dont know if anyone has posted them already, but this is interesting indeed:

Radeon HD4870X2 Faster Than GTX280, no Microstuttering?
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7845.html

RV770 has 800 SPs, breaks 1.2TFLOPS, final clocks
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7841.html

Radeon HD 4870, 4850 performance slides
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7854.html

NVIDIA shakened by Radeon HD 4800, lowers prices?
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7853.html

Then we have this rumor. Grain of salt here guys :thumbsup:

GTX 280 drops to $499

GTX 260 to $399


Nvidia was planning to launch the Geforce GTX 280 at $599 and the GTX 260 at $449, but now it looks like both cards will end up cheaper than it was originally planned.

The reason for this is simple, ATI will price its cards aggressively. The new suggested retail price might drop as low as $499 for the GTX 280 and $399 for the GTX 260. We were advised that some of these prices, especially the GTX 260 might go down further within a weeks after the launch.

ATI's Radeon HD 4870 will again be cheaper than the GTX 260 and our sources believe that it can give it a run for its money. We will see about that, but at least the HD 4870 will end up cheaper to begin with.

 

[Extelleron]

Here is a comparison of supposed HD 4850 & GTX 280 scores in Vantage....

http://img213.imageshack.us/im...erffeaturerv770so1.jpg

GTX 280 is ~65% and ~50% faster than the HD 4850 in the actual GPU tests.

The Feature tests are most interesting though. In the texture fillrate test (Feature 1), the GTX 280 only has ~4% higher fillrate than the HD 4850. The second test measures pixel performance it looks like, and GTX 280 is 96% faster there. The last test measures ALU (shader) performance, and there the GTX 280 is ~22% faster than the HD 4850.

In terms of texture fillrate, it looks like the HD 4870 will actually beat the GTX 280. In ALU performance, they will likely be equal. In terms of actual GPU Test performance, given ~30% higher performance for the HD 4870, the GTX 280 would be 15-30% faster.

 

[Janooo]

So Havok it is for AMD/ATI.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Here is a comparison of supposed HD 4850 & GTX 280 scores in Vantage....

http://img213.imageshack.us/im...erffeaturerv770so1.jpg

GTX 280 is ~65% and ~50% faster than the HD 4850 in the actual GPU tests.

The Feature tests are most interesting though. In the texture fillrate test (Feature 1), the GTX 280 only has ~4% higher fillrate than the HD 4850. The second test measures pixel performance it looks like, and GTX 280 is 96% faster there. The last test measures ALU (shader) performance, and there the GTX 280 is ~22% faster than the HD 4850.

In terms of texture fillrate, it looks like the HD 4870 will actually beat the GTX 280. In ALU performance, they will likely be equal. In terms of actual GPU Test performance, given ~30% higher performance for the HD 4870, the GTX 280 would be 15-30% faster.

It looks like the GT280 system scored quite a bit more in the CPU test as well... not like systems?

Originally posted by: Janooo
So Havok it is for AMD/ATI.

Wow, Intel owns Havok? This kind of puts Nvidia out on it's own with Ageia then?