ATI 4xxx Series Thread

[zod96]

Ha now Buy.com's website shows the 4850 no longer available :-( nice they better have mine!

 

[idiotekniQues]

im curious to see 4850 benchies with world in conflict at 19x12 rez.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I think people are being way too optimistic with performance figures. So im going to wait for the reviews on this one.

For instance, alot of people claimed R600 was faster than G80 especially in DX10. Cards look good on paper, so lets see what it can do in real life.

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

For instance, alot of people claimed R600 was faster than G80 especially in DX10. Cards look good on paper, so lets see what it can do in real life.

Only this time we know what the architecture is capable of. We know how r600 performed, so from there we can make a pretty good guess of how rv770 will perform (if the specs that have been leaked are correct... no one seems sure on the number of TMUs still ) With r600, no one knew how the architecture performed, so all people could do was make an uneducated guess

 

[Harmattan]

EDIT: D'oh... learn to read. Prices are already there.

Thanks for the run-down. I might add suggested/rumored price. I think those placements are pretty solid at this point; the question now is how much exactly +/-.

Originally posted by: Warren21
For those who are having trouble getting information from this thread, I'll try and condense it all here. Please note that AA performance has been "fixed" with the Rx7xx architecture. AA is now done properly on the render back-end (just like Rx5xx) instead of on the shaders (Rx6xx).

Radeon HD 4850 (AKA "RV770Pro")
-DX10.1 / SM4.1 & PCIe 2.0
-160 5-way VLIW shader units (800 SPs); 16 ROPs, 32 TMUs
-625 MHz Core clock
-256-bit bus (512-bit internal)
-512MB of 1000 MHz GDDR3 (2.0 GHz effective); 64 GB/s bandwidth
-1 x 6-pin PEG connectors, single-slot, 9.5"
-1.0 TFLOPs
-MSRP: 199-219 USD; Available June 25th.
*=/> 9800 GTX*
$220

Radeon HD 4870 (AKA "RV770XT")
-DX10.1 / SM4.1 & PCIe 2.0
-160 5-way VLIW shader units (800 SPs); 16 ROPs, 32 TMUs
-750-850 MHz Core clock (750 most likely)
-256-bit bus (512-bit internal)
-512MB of 19xx MHz GDDR5 (3.8 GHz effective); 12x.x GB/s bandwidth
-2 x 6-pin PEG connectors, dual-slot, 9.5"
-1.2 TFLOPs
-MSRP: 299-329 USD; Available June 25th.
*=/< GTX 260*
$300

I haven't seen any info on R700 in my limited searching in this thread, but here is my most educated and FUD-less guess from what I have read.

Radeon HD 4870 X2 (AKA "R700")
-DX10.1 / SM4.1 & PCIe 2.0 (TRUE PCIe 2.0 with an AMD dev'd PCIe 2.0 bridge chip)
-2 x 160 5-way VLIW shader units (2 x 800 SPs); 2 x 16 ROPs, 2 x 32 TMUs
-750-850 MHz Core clock
-512-bit SHARED bus (1024-internal)
-1024MB of SHARED ?? GHz GDDR5 (?? GHz effective) - Most likely similar to the 4870.
-1 x 6-pin PEG connector + 1 x 8-pin PEG connector, dual-slot, 10.5"
-2.4+ TFLOPs (HD 4870 X2 CrossFireX = 5.0 TFLOP system! *drools*)
-MSRP: 449+ USD; Available late August 2008.
*> GTX 280*
$450

I hope that sums it up for anyone looking for it. If anyone wishes, please correct me on this info if you have good reason to believe it is wrong. I will add die sizes/transistor counts once I get more solid info (have read lots of conflicting articles recently.)

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Warren21
Please note that AA performance has been "fixed" with the Rx7xx architecture. AA is now done properly on the render back-end (just like Rx5xx) instead of on the shaders (Rx6xx).

No. First of all, AA performance isn't "broken" in r6xx. AF performance is broken because of its limited texturing capabilities (only 16tmu compared to 64 in g92 or I can't remember how many in g80 ). Most people just assume that the large hit from enabling 4xAA/16xAF in the benchmarks like most reviewers is caused by enabling AA, because they are used to having nearly "free" AF like in G80.

Any increase in AA performance in r7xx will come from the increased arithmetic:texturing ratio, which will cause more shaders to be idle compared to r600, thus freeing them up for doing the AA operation (assuming r7xx has 32tmu, it will have a 5:1 ALU:TEX ratio... if it has 40TMU it will have the same ratio as r6xx). Also rumored is that r7xx can do 4z/clock up from 2z/clock in r600 which will help MSAA performance.

Going back to fixed resolve on the ROP for AA doesn't make much sense. DX10.1 requires that AA can be done on shaders, so why not do it that way all of the time?

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: taltamir
well, consider that the 4870 is a 4850 only with GDDR5 ram instead of GDDR3... and the delays in aquiring GDDR5... I expect price hikes on the 4870...

if the 4870x2 can really share the ram, then maybe we wouldn't be seeing any 4870s for a while due to ram amounts, and just 4870x2 GDDR5

if 4870 is available at the rumored $299 then it will be VERY good. gddr5 on that card is going to make a world of difference at high resolutions imho. the only question is when will it be available? of course, we could ask the same of 280 and 260 since nvidia doesn't seem to be exactly flooding the market with them...if 4850 is the amazon then 280/260 is my sprinkler.

with GDDR5 + 256bit bus it should have the same bandwidth as nvidia's 512bit bus + GDDR3...

The only difference is that nvidia has the option to make a GDDR5 + 512bit bus with extreme ease.

 

[gigahertz20]

Originally posted by: biostud
Could the NDA date be posted in the first post?

AMD is set to launch the Radeon HD 4850 on June 18th and it is definitely a hard one with retail availability on the same day. Radeon HD 4870, however, will be launched a week later on June 25th with retail availability in July due to GDDR5 availability. Radeon HD 4870 X2 will come later in Q3.

 

[taltamir]

would have made more sense to make the 4870x2 first, because thanks to their new ability to share ram you could pack to GPUs per 1GB of GDDR5, instead of using 1GB per one GPU.

 

[zod96]

I think the 4850 also got pushed back to the 25th

 

[Hauk]

zod96, you have a 4850 in your sig. Already have one?

I just received tracking info for 2ea due to arrive tomorrow. Bought on ebay but it appears he drop ships from mwave.com. Order confirmation and receipt came from mwave. That's reassuring.

 

[manko]

Originally posted by: zod96
I think the 4850 also got pushed back to the 25th

Yes, the launch was pushed back to the same day as the 4870. However, the 4850 shipments to stores already went out targeting the 18th launch, so I'm sure most have them in the back room/warehouse and you may even find some on the shelf a few days early.

 

[Extelleron]

From Extremetech's GTX 280/260 review:

Then there's the question of what ATI has up its sleeves, given that they're on the verge of releasing their new graphics cards based on the new RV770 chip. ATI tells us they're not going to compete in this really high-end of the market with those products.

Rather, they promise we'll get close to the performance of the GTX 200 cards (say within 20%) at dramatically lower prices and power. Certainly that targets a much larger segment of the market, but the worth of that strategy all hinges on its real relative performance. For the high-end, ATI is still a couple months away from the release of their card containing two RV670 GPUs.

We don't know what shape that will take, only that it will combine two GPUs on a card in a substantially different fashion than the Radeon HD 3870 X2, and that ATI tells us that with not-yet-fully optimized drivers it already scores over 6,000 in 3DMark Vantage on Extreme settings. We've heard promises of future greatness before, and reserve judgment until we get the cards in our own hands to run our own tests.

http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,2845,2320134,00.asp

If you look at this pic (supposedly architectural overview of RV770): http://img115.imageshack.us/im.../4475/archrv770zx6.jpg

There is something called a "Crossfire-X Sideport" which could be something used to connect the two GPUs on R700. This overview also shows 40 TMUs, so perhaps that rumor was true as well.

 

[zod96]

I can't believe it, they actually did have the cards in stock Mine shipped today I'll have it weds time to call in sick

 

[nonameo]

I am beginning to think that ATI/AMD planned for stores to have stock like this all along.

 

[zod96]

Yeah buy.com shipped mine today, I get it weds. SO I updated my SIG early I paided $189 for it out the door. Every pre-review I have seen says its better than the 9800GTX. But of course I just found a review over here http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...d.php?t=191096&page=10 scroll down to the bottom. The 8800GT beat the 4850, I really hope that's a mistake. I would hate to upgrade my 8800GT and find out later its slower than the 8800GT

 

[zod96]

How many stream processors are in the 4850?

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: SteelSix

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
"AMD says its 4850 device at about 110 W and $199 will deliver about 75 percent of the performance of Nvidia's high-end GTX280 which costs $649 and dissipates 236W. Two of the AMD [4850] parts on a board will hit graphics benchmarks about 30 percent higher than the Nvidia device, the AMD spokesman added.

Seems ambitious, but unverified CF benchies I've seen put 4850 CF over GTX 280. I think they used 8.5 drivers. 8.6 is supposed to release with hardware launch.

I'll know tomorrow, two 4850's on the way. I'll try 8.5 and 8.6 betas.

Test system:
Visa 64 SP1
Asus Rampage Formula x48
8GB Muskin Redline 1066 5-5-5-18,
E8400 @ 3.8

I've sold most of my games so I only have these to benchmark:
3DMark06
3DMark Vantage
Assassin's Creed
Mass Effect
Oblivion

you can bench the crysis demo, too.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: zod96
How many stream processors are in the 4850?

800

And I wouldn't be worried about the 8800GT beating the HD 4850 in actual games. There's an AMD slide floating around somewhere comparing HD 4850 & 8800GT performance @ 1900x1200 4xAA/8xAF.... HD 4850 was an average 30-50% faster.

It seems that HD 4000 series parts are not too impressive in 3D Mark 06, but they do pretty well in Vantage and games. That's why a lot of people who just look at 3D 06 are getting a bad impression of the HD 4850.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: taltamir
well, consider that the 4870 is a 4850 only with GDDR5 ram instead of GDDR3... and the delays in aquiring GDDR5... I expect price hikes on the 4870...

if the 4870x2 can really share the ram, then maybe we wouldn't be seeing any 4870s for a while due to ram amounts, and just 4870x2 GDDR5

if 4870 is available at the rumored $299 then it will be VERY good. gddr5 on that card is going to make a world of difference at high resolutions imho. the only question is when will it be available? of course, we could ask the same of 280 and 260 since nvidia doesn't seem to be exactly flooding the market with them...if 4850 is the amazon then 280/260 is my sprinkler.

with GDDR5 + 256bit bus it should have the same bandwidth as nvidia's 512bit bus + GDDR3...

The only difference is that nvidia has the option to make a GDDR5 + 512bit bus with extreme ease.

taltamir, you really need to get off the 512 bit + gddr5 kick. gt200 has not gotten nearly as much kick from being 512 bit as I expected. throwing in gddr5 would be a waste on current games. maybe in a few years, but right now you would add ++++ cost for + performance.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: nonameo
I am beginning to think that ATI/AMD planned for stores to have stock like this all along.

The reason you are probably seeing this is that the HD 4850 was supposed to launch this Wednesday, and it only got pushed to next week because AMD wanted to launch HD 4850 & HD 4870 at the same time. HD 4850 is ready for launch now and retailers appear to have inventory.

AMD has really excecuted this launch well though.... they have done a perfect job of building up hype. At first RV770 was a 480 SP chip that nobody thought would come close to GT200....and MAYBE R700 would compete with GT200, but probably on price and not performance. Now we see RV770 being 800SP, 40 TMU (maybe) and being only slightly slower than GT200 with R700 likely being far ahead. It's a lot better than with R600 to say the least, where we saw massive hype; 512-bit, GDDR4, 240W TDP.... then it ends up sucking and not even competing with G80.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: taltamir
well, consider that the 4870 is a 4850 only with GDDR5 ram instead of GDDR3... and the delays in aquiring GDDR5... I expect price hikes on the 4870...

if the 4870x2 can really share the ram, then maybe we wouldn't be seeing any 4870s for a while due to ram amounts, and just 4870x2 GDDR5

if 4870 is available at the rumored $299 then it will be VERY good. gddr5 on that card is going to make a world of difference at high resolutions imho. the only question is when will it be available? of course, we could ask the same of 280 and 260 since nvidia doesn't seem to be exactly flooding the market with them...if 4850 is the amazon then 280/260 is my sprinkler.

with GDDR5 + 256bit bus it should have the same bandwidth as nvidia's 512bit bus + GDDR3...

The only difference is that nvidia has the option to make a GDDR5 + 512bit bus with extreme ease.

taltamir, you really need to get off the 512 bit + gddr5 kick. gt200 has not gotten nearly as much kick from being 512 bit as I expected. throwing in gddr5 would be a waste on current games. maybe in a few years, but right now you would add ++++ cost for + performance.

Indeed, R600 certainly proved that excess memory bandwidth does not do you any good.

 

[gigahertz20]

Originally posted by: zod96
Yeah buy.com shipped mine today, I get it weds. SO I updated my SIG early I paided $189 for it out the door. Every pre-review I have seen says its better than the 9800GTX. But of course I just found a review over here http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...d.php?t=191096&page=10 scroll down to the bottom. The 8800GT beat the 4850, I really hope that's a mistake. I would hate to upgrade my 8800GT and find out later its slower than the 8800GT

Yeah, I saw that too. That's really going to suck if a $200 4850 gets beat by an old ass $150 8800GT in most of the benchmarks, I guess we'll find out here soon.

The official release for the 4000 series is the 25th correct? Is that when the NDA is up as well and we'll start seeing reviews or what?

 

[zod96]

Yeah I'll let you know weds I'm running 3dmark 06 now to bench my current setup with my 8800GT then weds I'll do a fresh install and bench the 4850 and if the GT beats the 4850 I will be very upset :-(

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
you can bench the crysis demo, too.

Great idea Bryan, then I looked at the file size. Wow. If other benchies warrant it I'll download that hog. I only get 80k/sec..