ATi 5850/5870 review thread

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

Originally posted by: coconutboy

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
This is the first time in many years where a new generation offers only 30% performance over previous gen...

You've got to be handpicking your benchmarks and resolutions to come up with a mere 30% increase because darn near every website out there is showing the 5870 as ~40% and up at higher resolutions.

Im not handpicking anything, and in fact, 30% is being generous

http://www.computerbase.de/art...rmancerating_qualitaet

Have a look for yourself, hover the mouse over the card you want to see the relative %s

In 4x AA situations, the GTX285 is within 20% of the HD5870, in 8xAA situations, within 30%

And dont say computer base is biased, they are one of the most reliable sites when it comes to video cards

Curiously that site shows the 5870 having 149% of the performance of the GTX295 at 2560x1600 8xAA/16xAF or the GTX295 being 67% of the performance of the 5870.

When people test new cpus they drop resolution to show what the CPU can do with future GPU. When people test new GPUs shouldn't they go to max resolution to test for the future? (just nitpicking )

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: coconutboy

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Who are you supposed to be asking? If it is a hypothetical ATi fan, then using the last generation isn't a good one if you want the company to continue to exist. They were utterly destroyed in the marketplace when looking at the 4xxx parts versus nV's lineup, by a 2:1 ratio.

Please link a source for this statement because I call BS. Not that this is 100% proof-positive but it's a helluva lot more credible than your 2:1 claim. Add up the Nvidia G200 parts vs ATI's 4800 series and you've got ATI leading Nvidia, by a sizable margin, not the other way around.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

Also, ATI is making a larger profit margin on each 4800 series GPU they sell due to a smaller die per chip vs the huge chips G200 Nv chips.

Mind you, I don't care about this ATI vs Nv nonsense beyond their competition equaling lower prices, but let's be honest about our claims.

BenSkywalker's claim is an utter BS, a total crap. As a matter of fact ATI HAS MOPPED THE FLOOR WITH NVIDIA in the past 18 months - NV is UNABLE TO LAUNCH any competitive new product since early 2008 and continuously LOST MARKET SHARE TO ATI, according to all industry reports.

Jun 27, 2008: AMD expected to grab 40% discrete graphics card market share in 3Q08 @Digitimes

Aug 15, 2008: AMD aims to grab 50% share of discrete graphics card market by the end of 2008 @Digitimes

Nov 14, 2008: Nvidia to cut graphics card prices to counter AMD market share gains@Digitimes

Dec 31, 2008: Graphics card price-cuts effective in boosting sales, says paper @Digitimes

Feb 2, 2009: GPU shipments dive in 4Q08, says JPR @Digitimes

Jul 20, 2009: Graphics take a hit in 2009 and to come back in 2010, says Jon Peddie Research @Digitimes

Aug 28, 2009: Graphics card market shows signs of stability in 2Q09, says Jon Peddie Research @Digitimes

Um, did you actually read those articles? If you did, you would have seen that ati was at 35% and nvidia at 64% market penetration in q2 2009. What that article failed to state was that ati was up 4% and nvidia was DOWN 4%. Sinced q1 and q2 are both "last generation", let's take the average of the two, so...hmmm, ati 33 % average, and nvidia is 66% average over the past 2 quarters. Looks to me like your link just proved ben skywalker to be EXACTLY CORRECT.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

In 4x AA situations, the GTX285 is within 20% of the HD5870, in 8xAA situations, within 30%

At 8xAA the 5870 is 43% faster at 1680x1050 and 45% faster at 1920x1200 than a GTX285. That?s a pretty significant difference.

I'm quite sure many people expected the 5870 to be almost twice as fast as a GTX285.
Ask how many of them expected only 30% on average? I'm willing to bet it was damn near zero. Me included.

P.S. Also looking forward to your AF investigation.

Who's many people? You know me. I can pretty much speculate how the next chip is going to perform. I expected to be around 2x 4870 at best which they delivered in such a power saving factor.

Can you answer me this question? When was the last time a card performed 2x as fast as the last generation while eating same amount of power at load?

 

[Compddd]

I find this whole situation funny, since the Nvidia people were trying to downplay the 9800GX2 beating the GTX 280 when it came out.

Single core GPUs are always better in my book.

GTX 280 > 9800GX2

5870 > GTX 295

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Compddd
I find this whole situation funny, since the Nvidia people were trying to downplay the 9800GX2 beating the GTX 280 when it came out.

Single core GPUs are always better in my book.

GTX 280 > 9800GX2

5870 > GTX 295

haha so true. I remember that too. I was also one of those people. lol

Then again I still don't like multi-gpu solutions and would rather have a single powerful GPU. Then again I was also counter balancing gx2 for the raw power over GTX2xx long as you stay low resolution and stay away from vram limited situations.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Originally posted by: darXoul

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
You're only thinking about your personal situation then, and not others. And quite frankly, you seem to be in the minority.

Yes, I'm not denying that I'm speaking from a personal PoV, that's why the YMMV statement above.

OTOH, if we consider the entire market, people who buy high end cards are a minority by definition, and in this particular "community" or target group, you can often expect that people are willing to pay a hefty premium for top performance. If we're talking about 5% performance for a 50% premium, this is just silly for most people except for those who really don't care about money. However, here I was talking about a presumed 30% performance boost for a 60% price premium.

Now, if you made a poll here or on other boards like HardOCP forums or EVGA forums expecting that I'm in the minority, you might be in for quite a surprise

You don't have to pay a premium, when compared to the GTX285, to get more performance from the HD5870. It's just as good of a value as the GTX285 from a performance/price standpoint, as I already stated in one of my previous posts. The 5850 is going to be even better in this respect, and this will remain so if or until Nvidia does a price drop. So I don't follow your rationale at all; the 5870 is a glaring success.

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
I'm quite sure many people expected the 5870 to be almost twice as fast as a GTX285.

Reeeeealllly. Whoever expected this was just delusional, or fell for the "hype" created by (from what I know) anonymous Internet users posting random charts. I can't recall ATI ever claiming it would be almost twice as fast as the current high end single die card. The more realistic goal was for the 5870 to match the 4870X2, but do so on a more consistent basis (as there are always cases where Crossfire scales extremely well, and more cases where it doesn't). The 5870 does just that in respect to both the 4870X2 and GTX295.

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Well, I personally expected it to be about 50%-60% faster than the 4890 since it?s literally double the card in most respects, but theoretical specs are often much higher than practical performance delivers. I?m somewhat surprised at the inconsistent performance levels sometimes, but I?d suspect that immature drivers are playing a part there.

According to their 2560x1600 charts, the 5870 is indeed 50% faster than the 4890 when looking at the average of all their games.

Originally posted by: SRoode

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Azn
I don't understand how anyone can believe some off site with bad speculations and then feel like ATI didn't deliver. That's quite hilarious. ATI delivered and then some with their 5870. While Nvidia is scratching their heads like WTF!#(*

With 1600SP, 80TMU, 32ROP and 100mhz faster core clock with much lower bandwidth is not going to deliver GTX295 performance. Anyone who's got a head on their shoulders who's been following the GPU scene will tell you it won't.

Nvidia is not doing that because if you want the fastest single card, it's still not an ATI card. That's what my entire point is and what ppl seem to miss completely.

Nvidia doing what? I don't understand what you are trying to say. ATI has the fastest single die card on the market without CF, SLI bs...

What is your point?

My interpretation is that the 5870 doesn't really outperform (on average) their own 4870x2, which costs about 20% less. There are some benchies where it does, some where it doesn't, but on average, they perform about the same. Single die doesn't really matter when you have to pay $319 for one card and $379 for another, and in the end the performance is about the same. It's not a "great" release for the price point. $299 would have been a different story.

On average the 5870 does equal the 4870X2, but the 5870 provides more consistent results. In games where the 4870X2 scales well the 5870 is already extremely fast. In games where the 4870X2 doesn't scale at all the 5870 is going to be at least 50% faster. Minimum framerates should also be improved, and there should be no worries about microstuttering or other types of issues.

But the biggest advantage, which is ALWAYS true, is that the 5870 will use half the power of dual card setups (4870, 4890, GTX275, GTX285).

Getting the same performance at half the power envelope is quite impressive.

Originally posted by: Qbah
So when the HD4870x2 was beating the GTX280, it wasn't a problem for anyone that it's a multi-GPU vs a single GPU and people were recommending the HD4870x2 because it's faster. And now, when the GTX295 is beating a HD5870, somehow the fact that it's SLI makes it inferior. Wow... talk about double standards.

More comparisons? The HD4870x2 was eating a lot more power than a GTX280 (as does a GTX295 vs HD5870). It had to use game specific profiles to work. It was louder and hotter. And yet somehow back then it was a better buy yet now the GTX295 somehow isn't. Hell, people still recommend a HD4850x2 over a GTX285...

On another note, people were talking a HD4870 (not x2) can play pretty much anything too. And you could look at the HD4870 of then as the HD4890/GTX285 of now.

The 4870X2 is more faster than the GTX285 than the GTX295 is faster than the 5870. I've used Techreport's numbers throughout this thread, so now I'll use Anandtech's numbers just for diversity:

At 2560x1600 the
HD4870X2 is on average 35% faster than the GTX285.
GTX295 is on average 7% faster than the HD5870
HD4870X2 uses 101W more power than the GTX285 under gaming load
GTX295 uses 85W more power than the HD5870 under gaming load

I think the numbers speak for themselves. Your comparison fails. The HD4870X2 is more recommended over the GTX285 because it offers significantly more performance than it. The GTX295 does not offer the same kind of performance advantage over the HD5870. And I haven't even touched price, in which the HD4870X2 has been pretty damn close to the GTX285 while the GTX295 is significantly more than the HD5870.

While I'm not personally an advocate of multi-GPU solutions, when a multi-GPU solution is significantly faster than another product at a similar price point then it can make sense. This is the case with the HD4870X2. But the HD5870 is different in respect to the GTX295. It's cheaper, it's a single-GPU setup, and it offers performance very close to the more expensive, more power hungry, slightly faster (on average) option.

 

[Tempered81]

5870 Tri-Fire Review:

http://i38.tinypic.com/2qapr1v.jpg

http://www.hardware.info/nl-NL...870_Triple_CrossFireX/

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: T2k*snip

I really dont mean to rain on your parade, but nV has been holding steady, even gaining sometimes. They recently only lost 3% marketshare.


http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=31&threadid=2319642


Edit: I see bryan already took care of this above.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays

Originally posted by: dguy6789
Let me ask you guys this: Would you rather ATI have the best performing single card(at any price, definitely not something cheap), but lose at every single price point below that like a company who will not be named did the last generation? Or would you rather them be competitive with the fastest opposition card for much cheaper while having something cheaper and or faster at every other price level?

Price/performance crown is NOT some kind of consolation prize. It's flat out superior to a stand alone performance crown. Who cares if you have the fastest card if it's $600-700+? It needs to be competitive and it's not. If the competition has a $300 card that is 95% as fast as that $600 card then they are destroying you.

The 5870 is not ATI's flagship card for this generation. I don't know how many times I have to say this. You can't compare it with the GTX 295 without taking price into consideration. Let's do a car analogy. Ferrari releases a new $200,000 car. Then naive people complain that it's not as fast as the competition's $500,000 car. Well here's an idea, it was never meant to be their fastest car. It was just a new car they made. Same deal with ATI. To repeat again: The 5870 is not ATI's flagship card for this generation; it is ATI's best card at $379. That's all.

If you want to compare anything without taking price into consideration just for raw performance, then compare 5870 Crossfire to the GTX 295 to get an idea of how the 5870x2 will compare to the GTX 295 since price doesn't matter and performance is all.

It's ludicrous man. You've got a single card solution, with less power consumption, more features, and nearly the same performance for $100 less money (GTX295 goes for around $470.00 on most sites). What on earth are you complaining about?

Gtx295 is a single card solution.( no longer a sandwhich) and if you want the fastest and the best you have to pay for it. 90$ more dollars.

this is a ridiculous discussion. 5870 is close enough to gtx 295 that it should garner the lion's share of high-end purchases going forward, at least until gt300 is released. You have made your opinion abundantly clear. By the way, have you ever owned a crossfire/sli setup?

Yeah, he's completely ridiculous. 5870 is roughly on pair with 295 while being a LOT cheaper, next-gen and fully DirectX11 - after all this claiming 295 is the "best" is simply idiotic.

I think you and Bryan missed the whole point of the conversation.

My main pont was as of this moment with NO directx 11 games, there is no real need for more power right now. Unless you game @ 2560x1600 with Stalker Clear sky and Crysis warhead and you have a 4850/9800gtx. Even then, why you have a monitor that supports 2560x1600? You should already have a high end 4890/gtx285 or 2.

I would buy a 5850/70 in a heartbeat if I knew that the gt360/380 was a flop or was gonna cost way more money. So why not just hold your money right now and see if the Nvidia's cards bring on a price drop?

As pointed out in a post earlier, there is only 3 direct x 11 games being released this year.(november/December). By then all the benches will be out and you can make a much better long term chioce.

I agree that dual card solutions are inferior in some ways,(power,heat) but if you already have a gtx260/275/280/285/295 or a 4870/4890/4850x2/4870x2 then jumping the gun and buying one of these cards this early could jump up and bite you in the ass when its all said and done.

Another thing I'd like to point out. why on earth did they release a card this fast made for ultra high res. with only 1gb memory?
This is another mistake you people with 2560x1600 monitors are gonna regret ImHO when more demanding games are launched. If i'm not mistaken even if you crossfire it still only see's 1gb right? or has that changed?

 

[v8envy]

Which puts the whole enthusiast GPU market in perspective. Midrange and lowend it doesn't really matter whose brand you buy, even a 20% architectural performance difference boils down to single digit frame rate differences in games. Going off of rigs in people's signatures looks like most of the forum whorum here at anandtech have migrated off about 95% 8800 class cards toward the end of 2008 to about 80% 48x0s today. It's way more than a 3% shift in loyalties. Not at all visible in sales figures.

The 5870 is nice, but I'm feeling no pressure to buy one today. I'm comfortable waiting to see what NV has in store. Now, if a Black Friday or other hot deal for one under $250 comes around before NV has a next gen product my tune will change in an instant...

 

[VooDooAddict]

The rest of the Small form factor crowd should be going gaga over the 5870 and 5850. Am I the only one that's excited that this is quite possibly the first high end, Gaming capable, single card, and single GPU solution that can do triple display? The triple display is the primary reason I'm picking one up. I'm certainly not complaining about the added performance over a single 4870 512MB.

Any other solutions for this required an expensive external adapter (matrox), multiple video cards (sli/xfire), or multiple GPUs (4850 X2).

This card will enable me to build my next rig as a shuttle SFF and still get triple display and high end gaming.

 

[akugami]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
You're lucky we have forum rules...

Don't go calling ppl fanboys because Mr pot...meet the kettle

You don't know me. And you weren't being spoken to.

Though since you chimed in for Mr. Player, you should know that the 295, which does in cases get beaten by a mere single 5870.. is not a "single video card".

It's a dual PCB solution. SLI on a stick. It acts as SLI does.
The 5870 is a single PCB. It acts as any non-SLI/Crossfire card would.

The fact the 5870 is matching or beating the 295 is sadness for Nvidia at this point. That means without the G300, they have nothing.

It may not be a single GPU video card but it is a single video card. That's almost like claiming a dual or quad core CPU is not a single CPU.

The fact that a previous generation video card solution from nVidia matches up well (loses some, wins some) against the current top video card from ATI bodes well for nVidia. Remember that nVidia has not released their GT300's yet. Granted ATI still has the inevitable 5870x2 coming out and maybe a 5890 as well. Given performance between the GTX 295 and 5870 are in the same rough range, they'll have to compete on price and that's where I think the 5870 has the real advantage as it's almost impossible not to have a price advantage when making a single GPU card due to only needing one GPU and presumably a simpler PCB with less layers.

With all this competition, if anyone is a winner, it's consumers.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: VooDooAddict
The rest of the Small form factor crowd should be going gaga over the 5870 and 5850. Am I the only one that's excited that this is quite possibly the first high end, Gaming capable, single card, and single GPU solution that can do triple display? The triple display is the primary reason I'm picking one up. I'm certainly not complaining about the added performance over a single 4870 512MB.

Any other solutions for this required an expensive external adapter (matrox), multiple video cards (sli/xfire), or multiple GPUs (4850 X2).

This card will enable me to build my next rig as a shuttle SFF and still get triple display and high end gaming.

Is there something that 5, 24inch monitors can do that a 50 inch lcd can't? I never had more then 2 displays. So educate me..What do you do play games on one and surf the web on another ect. ect.?

I'd rather play on one of these for about the same price.:thumbsup:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/inc...Sku=V25-5500&imgcart=1

 

[ClownPuncher]

For me, the 5870 and 5850 are a win. I really don't care about the 295 or 4870x2 or 9800gx2, my power bill is already more than expensive enough. I prefer highly overclockable single card solutions, like my old 8800GTS 512mb which could easily do 100mhz oc on the core as well as 50mhz on the gddr3. ATI seems to be the top dog when it comes to overclocking room ever since the 4890 hit shelves.

As far as there being no Dx11 games out, well yea...Win7 is also not "out". I don't buy cards only for what they can do NOW, I would like them to last about ~2 years. With the new AvP and STALKER coming out soonish for this API, I am going to plan ahead a little this time. Sure, it makes sense to wait and see what the 300 series has to offer if you dont mind waiting several months in hopes that it will be better. I had planned on buying a new card this fall, and a 5850 will probably be the one...unless somehow it doesn't overclock well (not likely).

It's funny, you have the group that says "What is the point? We don't need more gpu power now, a gtx 260 is enough" and the group that says "The 295 is 7% faster than this POS 5870!! 40% better than a 285 is bad". Cool, opinions are fun. With the games I play, the 5870 seems to benchmarking more favorably than the 295, especially with minimum framerates. Average frames and max frames are not the only thing I look at when buying a card. If a more expensive dual gpu card has minimum framerates that don't compete with a single gpu card with a $100 price advantage and that draws alot less power...I go with the latter.

Also, Eyefinity may seem like a gimmick to some, but I plan on buying another lcd with my 5850. Bezels don't bother me, it will work well for the graphic design, 3d modelling, and gaming I do.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: happy medium

I think you and Bryan missed the whole point of the conversation.

My main pont was as of this moment with NO directx 11 games, there is no real need for more power right now. Unless you game @ 2560x1600 with Stalker Clear sky and Crysis warhead and you have a 4850/9800gtx. Even then, why you have a monitor that supports 2560x1600? You should already have a high end 4890/gtx285 or 2.

I would buy a 5850/70 in a heartbeat if I knew that the gt360/380 was a flop or was gonna cost way more money. So why not just hold your money right now and see if the Nvidia's cards bring on a price drop?

As pointed out in a post earlier, there is only 3 direct x 11 games being released this year.(november/December). By then all the benches will be out and you can make a much better long term chioce.

I agree that dual card solutions are inferior in some ways,(power,heat) but if you already have a gtx260/275/280/285/295 or a 4870/4890/4850x2/4870x2 then jumping the gun and buying one of these cards this early could jump up and bite you in the ass when its all said and done.

Another thing I'd like to point out. why on earth did they release a card this fast made for ultra high res. with only 1gb memory?
This is another mistake you people with 2560x1600 monitors are gonna regret ImHO when more demanding games are launched. If i'm not mistaken even if you crossfire it still only see's 1gb right? or has that changed?

Again, I don't understand your point.

Basically what you are saying means that people shouldn't have bought any 4870x2 or GTX295 either.

You seem to assume everyone that has a 4xxx/GTX2xx card are jumping around to go buy this card. You also seem to assume most gamers have a 4xxx/GTX2xx card. Most will have 8800 or inferior.

Additionally if you want to buy now, the 5870 is a good value NOW! It trade blows with both the 4870x2 and the GTX295.

Atm just doesn't make much sense to buy any 4870x2 or GTX 295 or a GTX 285.

That is the thing. Anything more expensive than a 4890/GTX 275 doesn't make much sense unless you getting the 5870. Not even buying 2 4890 for CF.

Sure IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING ON THE 4xxx/GTX2xx/8800GTX YOU CAN WAIT TILL THE GT300 are out.

But the 5870 basically just made the GTX285/4870x2/GTX295 a bad buy (I mean if you buying them new).

About the 1GB thing, I'm very interested to see the 2GB version, but, the 5870 is generally stronger as the resolution and AA goes up compared to the 4870x2/285/295.

Bottom line: we are talking about a $379 card not a $649 card .

Imagine this "Guy buying a new PC. Got his Phenom II or his core i7 920/core i5. What card to pair it with? Low Budget? Get a 4870 or 4850. $200 Budget? Go 4890 or GTX 275. $300 budget? 5850. $300-400 budget? 5870. Only for $500 would you get a GTX295. And still only if you want a single card instead of 2, because 2 CF 4890 will beat the GTX295 for the price of a 5870.

No. The 5870 makes perfect sense.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
I'm quite sure many people expected the 5870 to be almost twice as fast as a GTX285.
Ask how many of them expected only 30% on average? I'm willing to bet it was damn near zero. Me included.

Twice as fast as a GTX285?? Isn't the GTX285 SLI also faster than the GTX295?? So you expected the 5870 to be as fast as GTX285 SLI?? I hope for your peace of mind that GT300 is faster than GTX285 SLI or I shudder to think how disappointed you will be.

I know I never expected the 5870 to be twice as fast as GTX285. I was hoping it would be close to GTX295 and in some cases it is. I was also expecting it to be DEFINITELY faster than a 4870x2 but that isn't the case in some scenarios from what I gather.

 

[akugami]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
In terms of superior feature support, again, this is coming off as rather comical. A lot of people in this thread are talking about SSAA and angle independant AF, both of which are features the competition has had for years(in other words, it's only a valid upgrade point if you don't consider the green team). The major features of this part are Eyefinity and DX11 support, neither of which I will try to marginalize in any way, but DX adoption rates have always been very slow and it is always going to be different, this time. If someone wants to buy a 5870 for DX11 support I think it is a perfectly valid reason, but in all honesty we do have far more PhysX titles on the market right now then DX11 offerings, and that will likely remain accurate for at least a couple quarters if not longer. Again, if people are looking to future proof then I can completely understand that, but this forum has been filled with the red team fans saying that you shouldn't ever future proof, buy for the games you are playing today etc, etc.

Pretty much, the 5870 is very much like a normal nV launch in many regards. It brings the top single GPU performance to the table, does so at a price point that does not make it particularly attractive when compared to the competition but it offers some features that have some interesting benefits in both the short and long term. I do not think the 5870 is a bad part in any stretch of the word, it just seems very much like what I would expect from the green team. Taking early profit margins(smart business), pushing features over performance and relying on technical superiority to sell its products in spite of its inferior price/performance compared to the competition. None of these things I consider bad, just not typical ATi(which given how their business model has been working versus nV, that may be a very, very good thing for them).

SSAA is not a new feature to either nVidia or ATI but it was costly to implement in terms of processing power needed. The fact that it has returned bodes well for image quality and that today's upcoming video cards are powerful enough to implement SSAA at the high resolutions we run at.

To the best of my knowledge, nVidia had the best Anisotropic Filtering but it was not angle independent. The best nVidia can do now is equal ATI by providing angle independent AF.

As someone who has mostly owned ATI video cards in the past six years, I'm taking a wait and see attitude. I am not in any rush to buy a 5870. I'll be evaluating the GT300 before making a decision. To be honest, if the GT300 doesn't completely overwhelm me, I'm likely sitting this round out. The 4870 does what I need at the resolutions I play at.

 

[bryanW1995]

BFG had an interesting statement about the AF implementation earlier, saying that it might not be as "perfect" as ati told anand it was. I look forward to seeing a writeup. (hint hint BFG)

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: happy medium

I think you and Bryan missed the whole point of the conversation.

My main pont was as of this moment with NO directx 11 games, there is no real need for more power right now. Unless you game @ 2560x1600 with Stalker Clear sky and Crysis warhead and you have a 4850/9800gtx. Even then, why you have a monitor that supports 2560x1600? You should already have a high end 4890/gtx285 or 2.

I would buy a 5850/70 in a heartbeat if I knew that the gt360/380 was a flop or was gonna cost way more money. So why not just hold your money right now and see if the Nvidia's cards bring on a price drop?

As pointed out in a post earlier, there is only 3 direct x 11 games being released this year.(november/December). By then all the benches will be out and you can make a much better long term chioce.

I agree that dual card solutions are inferior in some ways,(power,heat) but if you already have a gtx260/275/280/285/295 or a 4870/4890/4850x2/4870x2 then jumping the gun and buying one of these cards this early could jump up and bite you in the ass when its all said and done.

Another thing I'd like to point out. why on earth did they release a card this fast made for ultra high res. with only 1gb memory?
This is another mistake you people with 2560x1600 monitors are gonna regret ImHO when more demanding games are launched. If i'm not mistaken even if you crossfire it still only see's 1gb right? or has that changed?

Again, I don't understand your point.
I'll break it down for ya

Basically what you are saying means that people shouldn't have bought any 4870x2 or GTX295 either.

No what I'm saying at the time of the 4870/gtx280 release the 8800gtx was struggling (Avg 40/50 fps) @1900x1080 with Splintercell Double agent,Stalker,Fear exstraction point,Hitman blood money, and other games. So yes we needed more gpu power. Since then we have had more demanding games come out. So they released the 4870x2 and gtx295.

You seem to assume everyone that has a 4xxx/GTX2xx card are jumping around to go buy this card. You also seem to assume most gamers have a 4xxx/GTX2xx card. Most will have 8800 or inferior.

I was told this is a Enthusiast forum in a earlier post, and with that could assume most people had at least 8xxx/4xxx series products that are posting in this thread. If these so called "most" people still have 7900/1900xt products they probrobly are looking to get there hands on a cheap gts250 or 4850 anyway.

Additionally if you want to buy now, the 5870 is a good value NOW! It trade blows with both the 4870x2 and the GTX295.

Yes I agree it's a good value now, but It's realy not needed now.
It will be a better value or perhaps the wrong choice when the gt300 ships in late Oct./November. Prices will fall, and the value will increase when Dirt 2,and the new Stalker game will actually see benifits from it and dirextx 11.

Atm just doesn't make much sense to buy any 4870x2 or GTX 295 or a GTX 285.

I agree

That is the thing. Anything more expensive than a 4890/GTX 275 doesn't make much sense unless you getting the 5870. Not even buying 2 4890 for CF.

I agree. Right now buying any high end card unless your current one is broken doesn't make much sense to me. If you waited this long,why not 2 more months? You might save a few bucks and have a chance at a faster card. You have nothing to lose. Mabe you can game at 150fps instead of 100?

Sure IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING ON THE 4xxx/GTX2xx/8800GTX YOU CAN WAIT TILL THE GT300 are out.

I agree



But the 5870 basically just made the GTX285/4870x2/GTX295 a bad buy (I mean if you buying them new).

I agree..If you need a brand new card right now!

About the 1GB thing, I'm very interested to see the 2GB version, but, the 5870 is generally stronger as the resolution and AA goes up compared to the 4870x2/285/295.

Time will tell.

Bottom line: we are talking about a $379 card not a $649 card .

Imagine this "Guy buying a new PC. Got his Phenom II or his core i7 920/core i5. What card to pair it with? Low Budget? Get a 4870 or 4850. $200 Budget? Go 4890 or GTX 275. $300 budget? 5850. $300-400 budget? 5870. Only for $500 would you get a GTX295. And still only if you want a single card instead of 2, because 2 CF 4890 will beat the GTX295 for the price of a 5870.

I agree. This is one time when a 5850/5870 right now makes sense.
Good point and for me is the only time (unless your cards broken) that it makes sense to buy one now.


No. The 5870 makes perfect sense.

For the "Guy buying a new pc reason" yes it does.
:thumbsup:We need the software to catch up to the hardware.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: VooDooAddict
The rest of the Small form factor crowd should be going gaga over the 5870 and 5850. Am I the only one that's excited that this is quite possibly the first high end, Gaming capable, single card, and single GPU solution that can do triple display? The triple display is the primary reason I'm picking one up. I'm certainly not complaining about the added performance over a single 4870 512MB.

Any other solutions for this required an expensive external adapter (matrox), multiple video cards (sli/xfire), or multiple GPUs (4850 X2).

This card will enable me to build my next rig as a shuttle SFF and still get triple display and high end gaming.

Is there something that 5, 24inch monitors can do that a 50 inch lcd can't? I never had more then 2 displays. So educate me..What do you do play games on one and surf the web on another ect. ect.?

I'd rather play on one of these for about the same price.:thumbsup:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/inc...Sku=V25-5500&imgcart=1

Let me educate you: there are people beyond your single-tasking world, moreover even among single tasks there are some that would great benefit from more screen real estate - imagine if people would be able to edit videos on their machines, design things on their machines etc etc etc...


...now here's a small secret: people ALREADY DO these magical things...!

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: VooDooAddict
The rest of the Small form factor crowd should be going gaga over the 5870 and 5850. Am I the only one that's excited that this is quite possibly the first high end, Gaming capable, single card, and single GPU solution that can do triple display? The triple display is the primary reason I'm picking one up. I'm certainly not complaining about the added performance over a single 4870 512MB.

Any other solutions for this required an expensive external adapter (matrox), multiple video cards (sli/xfire), or multiple GPUs (4850 X2).

This card will enable me to build my next rig as a shuttle SFF and still get triple display and high end gaming.

Is there something that 5, 24inch monitors can do that a 50 inch lcd can't? I never had more then 2 displays. So educate me..What do you do play games on one and surf the web on another ect. ect.?

I'd rather play on one of these for about the same price.:thumbsup:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/inc...Sku=V25-5500&imgcart=1

Let me educate you: there are people beyond your single-tasking world, moreover even among single tasks there are some that would great benefit from more screen real estate - imagine if people would be able to edit videos on their machines, design things on their machines etc etc etc...


...now here's a small secret: people ALREADY DO these magical things...!

And you can't do them in sepaerate windows on a 55 inch screen as well?
Really tell me? I know nothing.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
BFG had an interesting statement about the AF implementation earlier, saying that it might not be as "perfect" as ati told anand it was. I look forward to seeing a writeup. (hint hint BFG)

Yeah from what I read there are some "optimizations" which produce some texture flickering.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: happy medium
And you can't do them in sepaerate windows on a 55 inch screen as well?
Really tell me? I know nothing.

A 55inch screen is still only 1920x1080...that's why you couldn't do it in separate windows.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: coconutboy

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Who are you supposed to be asking? If it is a hypothetical ATi fan, then using the last generation isn't a good one if you want the company to continue to exist. They were utterly destroyed in the marketplace when looking at the 4xxx parts versus nV's lineup, by a 2:1 ratio.

Please link a source for this statement because I call BS. Not that this is 100% proof-positive but it's a helluva lot more credible than your 2:1 claim. Add up the Nvidia G200 parts vs ATI's 4800 series and you've got ATI leading Nvidia, by a sizable margin, not the other way around.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

Also, ATI is making a larger profit margin on each 4800 series GPU they sell due to a smaller die per chip vs the huge chips G200 Nv chips.

Mind you, I don't care about this ATI vs Nv nonsense beyond their competition equaling lower prices, but let's be honest about our claims.

BenSkywalker's claim is an utter BS, a total crap. As a matter of fact ATI HAS MOPPED THE FLOOR WITH NVIDIA in the past 18 months - NV is UNABLE TO LAUNCH any competitive new product since early 2008 and continuously LOST MARKET SHARE TO ATI, according to all industry reports.

Jun 27, 2008: AMD expected to grab 40% discrete graphics card market share in 3Q08 @Digitimes

Aug 15, 2008: AMD aims to grab 50% share of discrete graphics card market by the end of 2008 @Digitimes

Nov 14, 2008: Nvidia to cut graphics card prices to counter AMD market share gains@Digitimes

Dec 31, 2008: Graphics card price-cuts effective in boosting sales, says paper @Digitimes

Feb 2, 2009: GPU shipments dive in 4Q08, says JPR @Digitimes

Jul 20, 2009: Graphics take a hit in 2009 and to come back in 2010, says Jon Peddie Research @Digitimes

Aug 28, 2009: Graphics card market shows signs of stability in 2Q09, says Jon Peddie Research @Digitimes

Um, did you actually read those articles? If you did, you would have seen that ati was at 35% and nvidia at 64% market penetration in q2 2009.

Ummm, I did - just WTF is that you are talking about, seriously...?

What that article failed to state was that ati was up 4% and nvidia was DOWN 4%. Sinced q1 and q2 are both "last generation", let's take the average of the two, so...hmmm, ati 33 % average, and nvidia is 66% average over the past 2 quarters. Looks to me like your link just proved ben skywalker to be EXACTLY CORRECT.

Quite the contrary it has proved that ATI HAS GRABBED overall market share form NV throughout 2008. Even you just admitted it.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: VooDooAddict
The rest of the Small form factor crowd should be going gaga over the 5870 and 5850. Am I the only one that's excited that this is quite possibly the first high end, Gaming capable, single card, and single GPU solution that can do triple display? The triple display is the primary reason I'm picking one up. I'm certainly not complaining about the added performance over a single 4870 512MB.

Any other solutions for this required an expensive external adapter (matrox), multiple video cards (sli/xfire), or multiple GPUs (4850 X2).

This card will enable me to build my next rig as a shuttle SFF and still get triple display and high end gaming.

Is there something that 5, 24inch monitors can do that a 50 inch lcd can't? I never had more then 2 displays. So educate me..What do you do play games on one and surf the web on another ect. ect.?

I'd rather play on one of these for about the same price.:thumbsup:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/inc...Sku=V25-5500&imgcart=1

Let me educate you: there are people beyond your single-tasking world, moreover even among single tasks there are some that would great benefit from more screen real estate - imagine if people would be able to edit videos on their machines, design things on their machines etc etc etc...


...now here's a small secret: people ALREADY DO these magical things...!

And you can't do them in sepaerate windows on a 55 inch screen as well?
Really tell me? I know nothing.

Oh yes, we have all recognized that now...

To avoid further embarrassing you might want to start here before asking anything else: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution

PS: I have a great 50" plasma for sale, don't worry about its resolution (848), it's big enough, right?