ATi 5850/5870 review thread

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: Shaq
waa? The 295 is fine and is Nvidia's closest competitor to the 5870 and it looks to be a bit faster.
And many people prefer Nvidia to ATI. Some prefer Coke over Pepsi, Levi's over Wrangler. etc. Who cares? Buy what you like.

It's the closest competitor, but the real competition is Nvidia's single core chips that don't have SLI complications, just as the 5870 doesn't have Crossfire complications.

The fact that the 295, which is an absolute beast of a card and always been an amazing performer.. is the 5870s closest competitor is an amazing accomplishment for ATI and a big disappointment for NV. There's no way in hell comparing a multiGPU solution to a single GPU solution is fair to AMD at all.

Now, people might have done so in the past. I don't care. It's not fair any way you slice it.

The only fair comparison that would be right to do, is Crossfire 5870s vs the 295.. or two 285s in SLI.. whatever. All multiGPU solutions have similar pitfalls, thus it's not like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.

I will be saying the same thing when the 5870X2 card demolishes everything Nvidia releases in the 300 lineup.. which you know they'll tweak that card out to whatever is necessary to rain all over Nvidia's launch. I've never promoted the 4870X2, and never will.

SLI/Crossfire are like a beautiful woman. Great to look at, but you don't really want to buy the hottest woman on the block as they are a lot more trouble to live with everyday.

When you can get an amazingly hot woman (5870) with none of the complexities of the other hot women (295/SLI/Crossfire) and at a cheaper price.. the answer is clear.

I can understand your argument here. But what I don't understand is you going on about "fairness" to AMD. You think it is "unfair" to compare a single GPU 5870 to a Dual GPU GTX295. Yet you
think it's perfectly fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX285. ATI's current gen single GPU to Nvidia's last gen single GPU. So the only situations that are "fair" to you, are the ones that show ATI's latest
in the best possible light. 5870 is a really nice GPU. Powerful. Priced decently. But it's no 9700pro or G80. Not by a few miles. And for you to discount GTX295 as it's current direct competition because it's a multi-GPU card, is silly. Echoing what dguy just said one or two posts up. CF and SLI have come a long way. Truly, I can only speak from experience with SLI. The "pitfalls" you speak of are pretty rare these days. Few and far between. And about price/performance? All Nvidia should need to do at this point, is adjust pricing. This is normal when any new gen is released. Last gen cards pricing usually lowers, or cards are discontinued (4870x2). As a last gen flagship, the GTX295 was priced where it should have been. A new price adjustment for the GTX295 could be anywhere from 7% to 11% higher than a 5870 to correspond to it's overall performance lead over said 5870. Which means it should drop to about 405.00 to 420.00.

So, discount the GTX295 if you will. But that's not going to make it go away. :::shrugs::: Sorry.

I know you're trying really hard here... and I commend you. A couple important points in response-

"Yet you
think it's perfectly fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX285."

Just as it will be fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX385.

"And for you to discount GTX295 as it's current direct competition because it's a multi-GPU card, is silly."

Direct competition for the GTX295 is Crossfire 5870s. Pretending that isn't true, considering the 295 is SLI, is silly.

If it's not the correct comparison, then what is comparable to Crossfire 5870s? SLI 285s? I'd say throw all SLI/Xfire solutions against each other. If NV wins with quadSLI, then so be it.

"The "pitfalls" you speak of are pretty rare these days."

I've also owned SLI, but was not given it recently by Nvidia. I'm aware of all the fixes that have happened over the years since I used it, and it has gotten better.
The bottom line is, it's not a 100% seamless experience like a single GPU card. Microstutter and individual game issues still exist. End of debate.

"All Nvidia should need to do at this point, is adjust pricing."

All Nvidia CAN do at this point, you mean. Please stop pretending they have any sort of upper hand or any cards to play at all right now. They can drop prices on 3 year old technology. Great.

"So, discount the GTX295 if you will. But that's not going to make it go away. :::shrugs::: Sorry."

No ones discounting it. Trust me, unbiased consumers want the 5850 or 5870 and we aren't scared of what amounts to a 3 year old GPU like the 295. Not everyone thinks it's a good idea to spend a lot of money on 3 year designs like the 200 series.
You're seeing what I'm saying through green colored glasses, and I will buy Nvidia next time if they create a single GPU card as good as the 5870. I've owned far more NV than ATI since I started buying GPUs in 1997 with my Diamond Monster 3D.





I'll ask you again Keys. What is your purpose in this thread, to rain on everyones parade, or simply damper enthusiasm for an ATI product?

When will we see how unbiased you are, promoting an ATI product? Because it's simple math that Nvidia is not always in the lead. They aren't right now in fact. If you love the technology, why are you downplaying ATI's new cards? Is it because you receive cards, motherboards and games from Nvidia through the focus group? And are you admitting that you have been bought, thus can't be taken as an objective source of information?
That is fine by me, but don't try to pass off your view as one that is in the best interests of the consumer.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Tempered81
That is CF 5870s you realize...

No take a look at the single 5870 vs the 4890...

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: Shaq
waa? The 295 is fine and is Nvidia's closest competitor to the 5870 and it looks to be a bit faster.
And many people prefer Nvidia to ATI. Some prefer Coke over Pepsi, Levi's over Wrangler. etc. Who cares? Buy what you like.

It's the closest competitor, but the real competition is Nvidia's single core chips that don't have SLI complications, just as the 5870 doesn't have Crossfire complications.

The fact that the 295, which is an absolute beast of a card and always been an amazing performer.. is the 5870s closest competitor is an amazing accomplishment for ATI and a big disappointment for NV. There's no way in hell comparing a multiGPU solution to a single GPU solution is fair to AMD at all.

Now, people might have done so in the past. I don't care. It's not fair any way you slice it.

The only fair comparison that would be right to do, is Crossfire 5870s vs the 295.. or two 285s in SLI.. whatever. All multiGPU solutions have similar pitfalls, thus it's not like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.

I will be saying the same thing when the 5870X2 card demolishes everything Nvidia releases in the 300 lineup.. which you know they'll tweak that card out to whatever is necessary to rain all over Nvidia's launch. I've never promoted the 4870X2, and never will.

SLI/Crossfire are like a beautiful woman. Great to look at, but you don't really want to buy the hottest woman on the block as they are a lot more trouble to live with everyday.

When you can get an amazingly hot woman (5870) with none of the complexities of the other hot women (295/SLI/Crossfire) and at a cheaper price.. the answer is clear.

I can understand your argument here. But what I don't understand is you going on about "fairness" to AMD. You think it is "unfair" to compare a single GPU 5870 to a Dual GPU GTX295. Yet you
think it's perfectly fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX285. ATI's current gen single GPU to Nvidia's last gen single GPU. So the only situations that are "fair" to you, are the ones that show ATI's latest
in the best possible light. 5870 is a really nice GPU. Powerful. Priced decently. But it's no 9700pro or G80. Not by a few miles. And for you to discount GTX295 as it's current direct competition because it's a multi-GPU card, is silly. Echoing what dguy just said one or two posts up. CF and SLI have come a long way. Truly, I can only speak from experience with SLI. The "pitfalls" you speak of are pretty rare these days. Few and far between. And about price/performance? All Nvidia should need to do at this point, is adjust pricing. This is normal when any new gen is released. Last gen cards pricing usually lowers, or cards are discontinued (4870x2). As a last gen flagship, the GTX295 was priced where it should have been. A new price adjustment for the GTX295 could be anywhere from 7% to 11% higher than a 5870 to correspond to it's overall performance lead over said 5870. Which means it should drop to about 405.00 to 420.00.

So, discount the GTX295 if you will. But that's not going to make it go away. :::shrugs::: Sorry.

I know you're trying really hard here... and I commend you. A couple important points in response-

"Yet you
think it's perfectly fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX285."

Just as it will be fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX385.

"And for you to discount GTX295 as it's current direct competition because it's a multi-GPU card, is silly."

Direct competition for the GTX295 is Crossfire 5870s. Pretending that isn't true, considering the 295 is SLI, is silly.

If it's not the correct comparison, then what is comparable to Crossfire 5870s? SLI 285s? I'd say throw all SLI/Xfire solutions against each other. If NV wins with quadSLI, then so be it.

"The "pitfalls" you speak of are pretty rare these days."

I've also owned SLI, but was not given it recently by Nvidia. I'm aware of all the fixes that have happened over the years since I used it, and it has gotten better.
The bottom line is, it's not a 100% seamless experience like a single GPU card. Microstutter and individual game issues still exist. End of debate.

"All Nvidia should need to do at this point, is adjust pricing."

All Nvidia CAN do at this point, you mean. Please stop pretending they have any sort of upper hand or any cards to play at all right now. They can drop prices on 3 year old technology. Great.

"So, discount the GTX295 if you will. But that's not going to make it go away. :::shrugs::: Sorry."

No ones discounting it. Trust me, unbiased consumers want the 5850 or 5870 and we aren't scared of what amounts to a 3 year old GPU like the 295. Not everyone thinks it's a good idea to spend a lot of money on 3 year designs like the 200 series.
You're seeing what I'm saying through green colored glasses, and I will buy Nvidia next time if they create a single GPU card as good as the 5870. I've owned far more NV than ATI since I started buying GPUs in 1997 with my Diamond Monster 3D.





I'll ask you again Keys. What is your purpose in this thread, to rain on everyones parade, or simply damper enthusiasm for an ATI product?

When will we see how unbiased you are, promoting an ATI product? Because it's simple math that Nvidia is not always in the lead. They aren't right now in fact. If you love the technology, why are you downplaying ATI's new cards? Is it because you receive cards, motherboards and games from Nvidia through the focus group? And are you admitting that you have been bought, thus can't be taken as an objective source of information?
That is fine by me, but don't try to pass off your view as one that is in the best interests of the consumer.

It's mind boggling how someone who is a known Nvidia focus group member can be allowed to be moderator of a video card sub-forum. You're just setting yourself up for failure.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
It's mind boggling how someone who is a known Nvidia focus group member can be allowed to be moderator of a video card sub-forum. You're just setting yourself up for failure.

Keys is not a mod in the video forum...in fact he declined that opportunity since he knew there would be conflicts about that.

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Tempered81
That is CF 5870s you realize...

No take a look at the single 5870 vs the 4890...

Yeah, I just did and didn't see where it was twice as fast?

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I'll ask you again Keys. What is your purpose in this thread, to rain on everyones parade, or simply damper enthusiasm for an ATI product?

When will we see how unbiased you are, promoting an ATI product? Because it's simple math that Nvidia is not always in the lead. They aren't right now in fact. If you love the technology, why are you downplaying ATI's new cards? Is it because you receive cards, motherboards and games from Nvidia through the focus group? And are you admitting that you have been bought, thus can't be taken as an objective source of information?
That is fine by me, but don't try to pass off your view as one that is in the best interests of the consumer.

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
It's mind boggling how someone who is a known Nvidia focus group member can be allowed to be moderator of a video card sub-forum. You're just setting yourself up for failure.

If what you guys have to say about Keysplayer is true, then do you think there is any value in stating it?

If he is as unrelentingly biased and inseparable as a person from that of whatever entities he associates with IRL then don't you think that bias would be self-evident to the rest of us too?

And as such is pointless to openly state?

I believe 1+1=2, should I make post after post about this self-evident fact?

I'm just asking what is the point, what is the purpose you aim to serve, by selecting any of your fellow posters and calling them out as having compromised character and ethics such that you believe them to be incapable of separating themselves from the business entities they associate with IRL?

If you believe it is as blatantly self-evident as you claim it to be then guess what, the rest of us here already know, so who are you preaching too? With what purpose? To what end?

FWIW I don't see it the way you see it, but regardless how I view Keys' posts I don't the point of these thinly veiled personal attacks and mod callouts.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: Shaq
waa? The 295 is fine and is Nvidia's closest competitor to the 5870 and it looks to be a bit faster.
And many people prefer Nvidia to ATI. Some prefer Coke over Pepsi, Levi's over Wrangler. etc. Who cares? Buy what you like.

It's the closest competitor, but the real competition is Nvidia's single core chips that don't have SLI complications, just as the 5870 doesn't have Crossfire complications.

The fact that the 295, which is an absolute beast of a card and always been an amazing performer.. is the 5870s closest competitor is an amazing accomplishment for ATI and a big disappointment for NV. There's no way in hell comparing a multiGPU solution to a single GPU solution is fair to AMD at all.

Now, people might have done so in the past. I don't care. It's not fair any way you slice it.

The only fair comparison that would be right to do, is Crossfire 5870s vs the 295.. or two 285s in SLI.. whatever. All multiGPU solutions have similar pitfalls, thus it's not like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.

I will be saying the same thing when the 5870X2 card demolishes everything Nvidia releases in the 300 lineup.. which you know they'll tweak that card out to whatever is necessary to rain all over Nvidia's launch. I've never promoted the 4870X2, and never will.

SLI/Crossfire are like a beautiful woman. Great to look at, but you don't really want to buy the hottest woman on the block as they are a lot more trouble to live with everyday.

When you can get an amazingly hot woman (5870) with none of the complexities of the other hot women (295/SLI/Crossfire) and at a cheaper price.. the answer is clear.

I can understand your argument here. But what I don't understand is you going on about "fairness" to AMD. You think it is "unfair" to compare a single GPU 5870 to a Dual GPU GTX295. Yet you
think it's perfectly fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX285. ATI's current gen single GPU to Nvidia's last gen single GPU. So the only situations that are "fair" to you, are the ones that show ATI's latest
in the best possible light. 5870 is a really nice GPU. Powerful. Priced decently. But it's no 9700pro or G80. Not by a few miles. And for you to discount GTX295 as it's current direct competition because it's a multi-GPU card, is silly. Echoing what dguy just said one or two posts up. CF and SLI have come a long way. Truly, I can only speak from experience with SLI. The "pitfalls" you speak of are pretty rare these days. Few and far between. And about price/performance? All Nvidia should need to do at this point, is adjust pricing. This is normal when any new gen is released. Last gen cards pricing usually lowers, or cards are discontinued (4870x2). As a last gen flagship, the GTX295 was priced where it should have been. A new price adjustment for the GTX295 could be anywhere from 7% to 11% higher than a 5870 to correspond to it's overall performance lead over said 5870. Which means it should drop to about 405.00 to 420.00.

So, discount the GTX295 if you will. But that's not going to make it go away. :::shrugs::: Sorry.

I know you're trying really hard here... and I commend you. A couple important points in response-

"Yet you
think it's perfectly fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX285."

Just as it will be fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX385.

"And for you to discount GTX295 as it's current direct competition because it's a multi-GPU card, is silly."

Direct competition for the GTX295 is Crossfire 5870s. Pretending that isn't true, considering the 295 is SLI, is silly.

If it's not the correct comparison, then what is comparable to Crossfire 5870s? SLI 285s? I'd say throw all SLI/Xfire solutions against each other. If NV wins with quadSLI, then so be it.

"The "pitfalls" you speak of are pretty rare these days."

I've also owned SLI, but was not given it recently by Nvidia. I'm aware of all the fixes that have happened over the years since I used it, and it has gotten better.
The bottom line is, it's not a 100% seamless experience like a single GPU card. Microstutter and individual game issues still exist. End of debate.

"All Nvidia should need to do at this point, is adjust pricing."

All Nvidia CAN do at this point, you mean. Please stop pretending they have any sort of upper hand or any cards to play at all right now. They can drop prices on 3 year old technology. Great.

"So, discount the GTX295 if you will. But that's not going to make it go away. :::shrugs::: Sorry."

No ones discounting it. Trust me, unbiased consumers want the 5850 or 5870 and we aren't scared of what amounts to a 3 year old GPU like the 295. Not everyone thinks it's a good idea to spend a lot of money on 3 year designs like the 200 series.
You're seeing what I'm saying through green colored glasses, and I will buy Nvidia next time if they create a single GPU card as good as the 5870. I've owned far more NV than ATI since I started buying GPUs in 1997 with my Diamond Monster 3D.





I'll ask you again Keys. What is your purpose in this thread, to rain on everyones parade, or simply damper enthusiasm for an ATI product?

When will we see how unbiased you are, promoting an ATI product? Because it's simple math that Nvidia is not always in the lead. They aren't right now in fact. If you love the technology, why are you downplaying ATI's new cards? Is it because you receive cards, motherboards and games from Nvidia through the focus group? And are you admitting that you have been bought, thus can't be taken as an objective source of information?
That is fine by me, but don't try to pass off your view as one that is in the best interests of the consumer.

It's mind boggling how someone who is a known Nvidia focus group member can be allowed to be moderator of a video card sub-forum. You're just setting yourself up for failure.

I'm posting as a member in this thread, and in any video thread. You should learn the difference between a moderator and a member.

 

[Nemesis 1]

First of all thanks you guys the last few Topics brought tears of laughter to my eyes. This topic has been good . The Larrabee topic lacked any real zeal , But never the less contained the usual , dam cant' think of proper word usage anyway it had good laughs.

The Lucid topic was priceless. But all three combined are hilarious, Exspecially if you put all the post by individuals into one file and read its like Holy shit man ,

Any ways on topic I still find it hard to judge the new ATI king to THE old broken KING ,

I think this shows in proper perspective what ATI offers now not 9 months from now VS. What NV has to offer. ATI with Future Update Drivers , It looks like ATI has Hit A grand slam , Its a little early to say for sure but it looks to be a Homer from here and still rising . Its a well hit BALL.

http://www.driverheaven.net/re...?reviewid=842&pageid=5

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

I'll ask you again Keys. What is your purpose in this thread, to rain on everyones parade, or simply damper enthusiasm for an ATI product?

When will we see how unbiased you are, promoting an ATI product? Because it's simple math that Nvidia is not always in the lead. They aren't right now in fact. If you love the technology, why are you downplaying ATI's new cards? Is it because you receive cards, motherboards and games from Nvidia through the focus group? And are you admitting that you have been bought, thus can't be taken as an objective source of information?
That is fine by me, but don't try to pass off your view as one that is in the best interests of the consumer.

But I don't care for ATI products very much. I think they're good, but not my fav. You apparently have a serious bug up your ass about this. DEAL with it.

You can't handle any criticism about this card. Is that what I'm getting here?
Hmmm. I've said it's very fast,(you handled this), its very power efficient,(you had no prob with this comment), and is decently priced (no issues with me).

Then I say it doesn't seem to beat out the GTX295......... WHOA NELLIE!!!!!!!
You break out with this F'ing bullshit:

"I'll ask you again Keys. What is your purpose in this thread, to rain on everyones parade, or simply damper enthusiasm for an ATI product?

When will we see how unbiased you are, promoting an ATI product? Because it's simple math that Nvidia is not always in the lead. They aren't right now in fact. If you love the technology, why are you downplaying ATI's new cards? Is it because you receive cards, motherboards and games from Nvidia through the focus group? And are you admitting that you have been bought, thus can't be taken as an objective source of information?
That is fine by me, but don't try to pass off your view as one that is in the best interests of the consumer."

Only the most extreme fanboy attitude can generate this kind of tripe dude. And your it. One who attacks character instead of the argument at hand. That's as low as you can go bud. Congrats, you're there. You've established yourself quite clearly.

 

[MegaWorks]

Can you guys please cut the crap about Keys says this and keys done that!!! You don't like his opinion deal with it and grow the fuck up!!! Geez.. :roll:

Now check out the Radeon HD 5870X2 in picture.

It's the same cooler than the regular 5870!

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Can you guys please cut the crap about Keys says this and keys done that!!! You don't like his opinion deal with it and grow the fuck up!!! Geez.. :roll:

Seconded

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Now check out the Radeon HD 5870X2 in picture.

It's the same cooler than the regular 5870!

One 6 pin and one 8 pin...I'm guessing this isn't a 376W monster after all?

 

[Obsoleet]

Good work at avoiding all my points Keys. I know I'm right, and you do too. You would be agreeing if Nvidia was in ATI's spot right now.
You "prefer" Nvidia products? Because of a logo? I wonder what causes this preference... no one should listen to a word coming out of your mouth. I just want to expose your sad attempt at sophism, that's all. Comparing SLI and Crossfire to a single card and attempting to use that as a way to downplay it is utter crap.
The 5870 smokes the 285, so you have no leg to stand on.. so I understand if you have a vested interest in Nvidia, why you'd resort to pretending the 295 being SLI doesn't matter. Crossfire has similar limitations to SLI, so Crossfire 5870s would be a fair comparison, and blows your product out of the water.
It's not even right and you actually have a few people buying into this propaganda. I've responded to your points regarding the cards. You ignored that part, and still didn't answer why you are here if you don't like ATI products, simply because they don't pay you. No one has a beef with your opinion, it's how pervasive you are at trying to spread "your" opinion. I have no affiliation with either NV or ATI, and hold no stock in either company or any related companies. Someone in this forum who is a normal consumer not motivated by personal profit needs to counter the propaganda. I know it can be annoying to other members, but if you are allowed to post your propaganda freely, people need to have the right to counter it. I apologize to the members who recognize Keys for what he is (a marketer) and don't need anyone to fight him off, but many people are checking out the forums for info on these cards and he needs to be countered.

 

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Can you guys please cut the crap about Keys says this and keys done that!!! You don't like his opinion deal with it and grow the fuck up!!! Geez.. :roll:

Now check out the Radeon HD 5870X2 in picture.

It's the same cooler than the regular 5870!

That card is HUGE!

 

[Obsoleet]

LOL at the size of the X2.. http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/v...ck_Graphics_Cards.html

That said, it looks rather sexy. I wish I had a good excuse to buy one of those.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I know it can be annoying to other members, but if you are allowed to post your propaganda freely, people need to have the right to counter it. I apologize to the members who recognize Keys for what he is (a marketer) and don't need anyone to fight him off, but many people are checking out the forums for info on these cards and he needs to be countered.

Dude, then counter his claims with your facts and leave all the personal crap off the table.

No one who is lurking here or coming in off the street should need to be told to have a tainted view of keys' character just so they weigh his posts with suspicion as you desire...they should be faced with his post's claims and your post with your claims and on those merits alone be allowed to decide for themselves which set of facts or claims are cast in a way that makes conclusions relevant to them.

Where you go astray, off message, and undermine your own stated goals here, is by tinging your posts with needless character assassination-type comments. Because I'll tell you what will happen, more often than not that new poster who doesn't know you or Keys from the next guy over will see your vitriolic rhetoric and decide that of all the people in here it is your posts that they need to be the most suspicious of. (people are funny like that when they see personal attacks, changes the entire tone of the attacker's message and changes how it is received by others reading it)

If your facts are right, and keys facts are wrong, then the data alone will make that quite clear to everyone. Conflating your facts with keys' character is not serving your stated purpose, it is undermining it.

 

[Wag]

Originally posted by: videogames101
That card is HUGE!

That what she said...But seriously...I know for a fact a card of that size wouldn't fit in my case let alone most of the home market out there, would a company even want to go as far as put out a card like that that hardly anyone could use? (Yes, I know a few of the very few aficionados have E-ATX cases, but the average user just doesn't) You would think a 5870 or GTX295 sized card would be about as big as they would make cards (and even then that's pretty big).

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I know it can be annoying to other members, but if you are allowed to post your propaganda freely, people need to have the right to counter it. I apologize to the members who recognize Keys for what he is (a marketer) and don't need anyone to fight him off, but many people are checking out the forums for info on these cards and he needs to be countered.

Dude, then counter his claims with your facts and leave all the personal crap off the table.

No one who is lurking here or coming in off the street should need to be told to have a tainted view of keys' character just so they weigh his posts with suspicion as you desire...they should be faced with his post's claims and your post with your claims and on those merits alone be allowed to decide for themselves which set of facts or claims are cast in a way that makes conclusions relevant to them.

Where you go astray, off message, and undermine your own stated goals here, is by tinging your posts with needless character assassination-type comments. Because I'll tell you what will happen, more often than not that new poster who doesn't know you or Keys from the next guy over will see your vitriolic rhetoric and decide that of all the people in here it is your posts that they need to be the most suspicious of. (people are funny like that when they see personal attacks, changes the entire tone of the attacker's message and changes how it is received by others reading it)

If your facts are right, and keys facts are wrong, then the data alone will make that quite clear to everyone. Conflating your facts with keys' character is not serving your stated purpose, it is undermining it.

Why go down the path of bringing up Nvidia countless times in a 5870 review thread?

Why do people bring up Xbox in a Playstation thread?
Why do people bring up Honda in a Mustang thread?

Regardless if facts are thrown around or links posted, the same bickering gets old... quick.
If people want to talk about value for the money or price/performance ratio with all vendors, then by all means please do it. Please do it in another thread.

I think this is common courtesy and should be a forum guideline. That is all I am asking for. Keep it on the 5870 Reviews, leave the other arguments to PM's or if willing, create another topic.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I know it can be annoying to other members, but if you are allowed to post your propaganda freely, people need to have the right to counter it. I apologize to the members who recognize Keys for what he is (a marketer) and don't need anyone to fight him off, but many people are checking out the forums for info on these cards and he needs to be countered.

Dude, then counter his claims with your facts and leave all the personal crap off the table.

No one who is lurking here or coming in off the street should need to be told to have a tainted view of keys' character just so they weigh his posts with suspicion as you desire...they should be faced with his post's claims and your post with your claims and on those merits alone be allowed to decide for themselves which set of facts or claims are cast in a way that makes conclusions relevant to them.

Where you go astray, off message, and undermine your own stated goals here, is by tinging your posts with needless character assassination-type comments. Because I'll tell you what will happen, more often than not that new poster who doesn't know you or Keys from the next guy over will see your vitriolic rhetoric and decide that of all the people in here it is your posts that they need to be the most suspicious of. (people are funny like that when they see personal attacks, changes the entire tone of the attacker's message and changes how it is received by others reading it)

If your facts are right, and keys facts are wrong, then the data alone will make that quite clear to everyone. Conflating your facts with keys' character is not serving your stated purpose, it is undermining it.

Why go down the path of bringing up Nvidia countless times in a 5870 review thread?

Why do people bring up Xbox in a Playstation thread?
Why do people bring up Honda in a Mustang thread?

Regardless if facts are thrown around or links posted, the same bickering gets old... quick.
If people want to talk about value for the money or price/performance ratio with all vendors, then by all means please do it. Please do it in another thread.

I think this is common courtesy and should be a forum guideline. That is all I am asking for. Keep it on the 5870 Reviews, leave the other arguments to PM's or if willing, create another topic.

What is a review if it weren't for the comparisons made in the reviews to the competing products?

What value is there in having a review thread if all that is said inside is that reviews exist...we don't need a thread to know this.

If you want a thread that is truly one-sided in scope then what you really want is a blog.

I've seen on XS what can happen to the tenuous community feelings when you bifurcate your forums along company names. You get entrenched camps, and with that you get even more silo mentality.

I like that we aren't organized like that, we continually face both sides of every argument in every thread so we can't retreat to some fictitious fantasy land where everyone around us thinks exactly like us and parrots exactly what we parrot.

But the solution is pretty simple - if a poster is making unwarranted claims or irrelevant claims...simply...ignore...them. Don't feed the troll, if you think them to be a troll.

You know what I do when I am standing in line at the grocery store checkout and some person in front of me or behind me is blabbering away some BS that just grinds my gears? I ignore them. I don't tell them that the checkout line they are in is a no BS line, etc.

If what you propose is impractical IRL, its probably impractical here too. I really deplore the segmented forum situation at XS, it makes the community so dysfunctional and you know what I mean if you go there and try to lurk in any of the cross-over forums like the news forum. I don't like to bash on a forum like that, I think the best of Fugger and some of the posters over there, but Xs is the best real-world example I have to lead with as my reasoning why I really don't want us taking our community down that path.

Best we dance with the devils we know than invite ones which may be worse.

Now I personally do not find Keys posts to be troll-like, BS, or otherwise disruptive, but for folks that do feel that way they really need to ask themselves what is to be gained by making such a ruckus over it in their posts...if we want to collectively improve the signal-to-noise ratio in our threads and on our forums you don't go about doing that by combating suspected noise by adding even more noise of your own. Add signal. And nothing more. And you will be one step closer to your objective I assure you.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays

It's mind boggling how someone who is a known Nvidia focus group member can be allowed to be moderator of a video card sub-forum. You're just setting yourself up for failure.

Really, who would that be? I am fairly certain that no FGMs are moderators of this sub-forum.

Also, please read BFG's warning in the first post of this thread. These attacks are grounds for vacation.

Below post quoted in case it needs to be looked at:

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Good work at avoiding all my points Keys. I know I'm right, and you do too. You would be agreeing if Nvidia was in ATI's spot right now.
You "prefer" Nvidia products? Because of a logo? I wonder what causes this preference... no one should listen to a word coming out of your mouth. I just want to expose your sad attempt at sophism, that's all. Comparing SLI and Crossfire to a single card and attempting to use that as a way to downplay it is utter crap.
The 5870 smokes the 285, so you have no leg to stand on.. so I understand if you have a vested interest in Nvidia, why you'd resort to pretending the 295 being SLI doesn't matter. Crossfire has similar limitations to SLI, so Crossfire 5870s would be a fair comparison, and blows your product out of the water.
It's not even right and you actually have a few people buying into this propaganda. I've responded to your points regarding the cards. You ignored that part, and still didn't answer why you are here if you don't like ATI products, simply because they don't pay you. No one has a beef with your opinion, it's how pervasive you are at trying to spread "your" opinion. I have no affiliation with either NV or ATI, and hold no stock in either company or any related companies. Someone in this forum who is a normal consumer not motivated by personal profit needs to counter the propaganda. I know it can be annoying to other members, but if you are allowed to post your propaganda freely, people need to have the right to counter it. I apologize to the members who recognize Keys for what he is (a marketer) and don't need anyone to fight him off, but many people are checking out the forums for info on these cards and he needs to be countered.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Can you guys please cut the crap about Keys says this and keys done that!!! You don't like his opinion deal with it and grow the fuck up!!! Geez.. :roll:

:laugh: So another flame war revolving around the same guy? I guess that is one way to spike ati's guns, but sad for the forums.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Tempered81

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Tempered81
That is CF 5870s you realize...

No take a look at the single 5870 vs the 4890...

Yeah, I just did and didn't see where it was twice as fast?

Nah I said "almost twice as fast" in my previous post. Check the higher resolutions...for example in Anno 1404 I'd say 28fps vs. 52fps is pretty close to being twice as fast.

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Can you guys please cut the crap about Keys says this and keys done that!!! You don't like his opinion deal with it and grow the fuck up!!! Geez.. :roll:

:laugh: So another flame war revolving around the same guy? I guess that is one way to spike ati's guns, but sad for the forums.

You guys have had problems with Keys being disruptive before? I should've just ignored him and went with the facts. It's just hard to not bite when baited by someone who denies how good a new GPU launch is (from any company). The vast majority of people here make up a really great community. If companies were prohibited from putting agents here it'd do a lot of good.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

The reason myself, Obsoleet, and others are angry at certain known members on this forum who continually damper enthusiasm around ANY ATI related product is because this site is supposed to be a repository for great technology information. If nobody is countering their constant lies, deception, and misleading statements then we're going to end up with a large mass of uninformed buyers out there who use sites like this to do research on products.

 

[Obsoleet]

I can do that. I enjoyed this review at Maximum PC. Ironically enough, while I'm not a fan of MaximumPC (I don't really know anything about it to be honest), I thought it had the correct perspective in evaluating the 5870. They view it as a direct competitor to other non-SLI/Xfire solutions. Meaning it had to beat the 285.
http://www.maximumpc.com/artic...eocard_ever_ps_its_380

Fastest video card ever might be a little cheesy, but it is the fastest single GPU card that exists so it's not too far off.

After the smoke cleared, the 285 GTX looked like a tired fighter who?d been rope-a-doped and KO?d. The performance differences aren?t minor, they?re huge: The Radeon HD 5870 was 63 percent faster in Crysis, 32 percent faster in Far Cry 2, 33 percent faster in STALKER, and even 24 percent faster in Battleforge, an RTS that?s arguably more dependent on CPU than graphics. This round of the endless GPU wars, then, is clearly owned by AMD, at least for single-GPU cards. And with performance like this, who wants the heat and power consumption of a dual-GPU card.

63% faster in Crysis than a superclocked 285 is definitely another 9700 Pro!

 

[thilanliyan]

nm