Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Originally posted by: Shaq
waa? The 295 is fine and is Nvidia's closest competitor to the 5870 and it looks to be a bit faster.
And many people prefer Nvidia to ATI. Some prefer Coke over Pepsi, Levi's over Wrangler. etc. Who cares? Buy what you like.
It's the closest competitor, but the real competition is Nvidia's single core chips that don't have SLI complications, just as the 5870 doesn't have Crossfire complications.
The fact that the 295, which is an absolute beast of a card and always been an amazing performer.. is the 5870s closest competitor is an amazing accomplishment for ATI and a big disappointment for NV. There's no way in hell comparing a multiGPU solution to a single GPU solution is fair to AMD at all.
Now, people might have done so in the past. I don't care. It's not fair any way you slice it.
The only fair comparison that would be right to do, is Crossfire 5870s vs the 295.. or two 285s in SLI.. whatever. All multiGPU solutions have similar pitfalls, thus it's not like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.
I will be saying the same thing when the 5870X2 card demolishes everything Nvidia releases in the 300 lineup.. which you know they'll tweak that card out to whatever is necessary to rain all over Nvidia's launch. I've never promoted the 4870X2, and never will.
SLI/Crossfire are like a beautiful woman. Great to look at, but you don't really want to buy the hottest woman on the block as they are a lot more trouble to live with everyday.
When you can get an amazingly hot woman (5870) with none of the complexities of the other hot women (295/SLI/Crossfire) and at a cheaper price.. the answer is clear.
I can understand your argument here. But what I don't understand is you going on about "fairness" to AMD. You think it is "unfair" to compare a single GPU 5870 to a Dual GPU GTX295. Yet you
think it's perfectly fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX285. ATI's current gen single GPU to Nvidia's last gen single GPU. So the only situations that are "fair" to you, are the ones that show ATI's latest
in the best possible light. 5870 is a really nice GPU. Powerful. Priced decently. But it's no 9700pro or G80. Not by a few miles. And for you to discount GTX295 as it's current direct competition because it's a multi-GPU card, is silly. Echoing what dguy just said one or two posts up. CF and SLI have come a long way. Truly, I can only speak from experience with SLI. The "pitfalls" you speak of are pretty rare these days. Few and far between. And about price/performance? All Nvidia should need to do at this point, is adjust pricing. This is normal when any new gen is released. Last gen cards pricing usually lowers, or cards are discontinued (4870x2). As a last gen flagship, the GTX295 was priced where it should have been. A new price adjustment for the GTX295 could be anywhere from 7% to 11% higher than a 5870 to correspond to it's overall performance lead over said 5870. Which means it should drop to about 405.00 to 420.00.
So, discount the GTX295 if you will. But that's not going to make it go away. :::shrugs::: Sorry.
I know you're trying really hard here... and I commend you. A couple important points in response-
"Yet you
think it's perfectly fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX285."
Just as it will be fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX385.
"And for you to discount GTX295 as it's current direct competition because it's a multi-GPU card, is silly."
Direct competition for the GTX295 is Crossfire 5870s. Pretending that isn't true, considering the 295 is SLI, is silly.
If it's not the correct comparison, then what is comparable to Crossfire 5870s? SLI 285s? I'd say throw all SLI/Xfire solutions against each other. If NV wins with quadSLI, then so be it.
"The "pitfalls" you speak of are pretty rare these days."
I've also owned SLI, but was not given it recently by Nvidia. I'm aware of all the fixes that have happened over the years since I used it, and it has gotten better.
The bottom line is, it's not a 100% seamless experience like a single GPU card. Microstutter and individual game issues still exist. End of debate.
"All Nvidia should need to do at this point, is adjust pricing."
All Nvidia CAN do at this point, you mean. Please stop pretending they have any sort of upper hand or any cards to play at all right now. They can drop prices on 3 year old technology. Great.
"So, discount the GTX295 if you will. But that's not going to make it go away. :::shrugs::: Sorry."
No ones discounting it. Trust me, unbiased consumers want the 5850 or 5870 and we aren't scared of what amounts to a 3 year old GPU like the 295. Not everyone thinks it's a good idea to spend a lot of money on 3 year designs like the 200 series.
You're seeing what I'm saying through green colored glasses, and I will buy Nvidia next time if they create a single GPU card as good as the 5870. I've owned far more NV than ATI since I started buying GPUs in 1997 with my Diamond Monster 3D.
I'll ask you again Keys. What is your purpose in this thread, to rain on everyones parade, or simply damper enthusiasm for an ATI product?
When will we see how unbiased you are, promoting an ATI product? Because it's simple math that Nvidia is not always in the lead. They aren't right now in fact. If you love the technology, why are you downplaying ATI's new cards? Is it because you receive cards, motherboards and games from Nvidia through the focus group? And are you admitting that you have been bought, thus can't be taken as an objective source of information?
That is fine by me, but don't try to pass off your view as one that is in the best interests of the consumer.