ATi 5850/5870 review thread

[SlowSpyder]

So.... how about that 5870? Sure is somethinng, isn't it?

 

[bryanW1995]

go back and read keys' posts from 2007. He was EXACTLY THE SAME before he became a focus group member. Do you think nvidia just takes random dudes off the street and offers focus group membership to them? Keys has never hidden his preference for nvidia, and especially for the past few years he hasn't had to apologize for it, either. The only difference now is that he saves a few hundred bucks a year in computer parts. Maybe to some of our forum posters that is a large amount of money, but I can assure you that he would have bought those parts regardless. Is he biased? sure, but at least he puts it in his sig. What about you? Why don't you put "blind amd fanboy who isn't even bribed with free graphics cards" in your signature? While you're at it, so spend a couple of months personally benchmarking every card released in the past 3 years and write a book on what you did, why you did it, what your results were, and posts TONS of graphs about it. Shit, apoppin parleyed his involvement into a job with a new website, all keys got was a few graphics cards.

By the way, I'm still bitter that amd has never brought me up on my offer to be an "ati focus group member". Bastards!!

edit: back on topic, when will we see 2gb 5870's? What if ati just holds those out and releases them with higher clocks and badges them as 5890's that just happen to coincide with the release of gt300? Could we see a 10-15% improvement by doing that, maybe even 20% with some decent driver improvements? Part of the advantage of releasing first is that you are already working on your process/improvements while the other guy is rushing like crazy just to come up with SOMETHING. nvidia could think that they have a 25% advantage with a late nov release and end up in a statistical tie.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
go back and read keys' posts from 2007. . He was EXACTLY THE SAME before he became a focus group member.

Involved in a running flame war?

 

[lopri]

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20426

It's HUGE.

 

[Wag]

Originally posted by: lopri
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20426

It's HUGE.

Yes, and I commented on that already,(which of course was lost in all the fighting and back-baiting). To paraphrase my earlier post- that card won't fit in most people's cases (including mine) so you have to wonder which company is going to put out a card of that dimensions?

 

[imported_Shaq]

That's great. In 5 more years maybe we will have 20" cards with 4 GPU's and 10GB of memory.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Wag

Originally posted by: lopri
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20426

It's HUGE.

Yes, and I commented on that already,(which of course was lost in all the fighting and back-baiting). To paraphrase my earlier post- that card won't fit in most people's cases (including mine) so you have to wonder which company is going to put out a card of that dimensions?

Seriously though...we are talking about a computer component that is going to set you back, what, around $500, maybe more...and you can't find it in your wallet to upgrade your case to something a little more roomy for $100?

I don't own super large GPU cards, so I can't speak to the heat dissipation...but I imagine that if your case is too small to accommodate the physical dimensions of a significant power-consuming component like an X2 configured GPU card then your case and cooling are probably not going to be up to job anyways of keeping it or the rest of your system components at reasonable temps either (on average, not every case is average of course).

Originally posted by: Shaq
That's great. In 5 more years maybe we will have 20" cards with 4 GPU's and 10GB of memory.

Yeah, wouldn't that just suck to be able to purchase that kind of performance but be required/expected to find some place in our homes to install the hardware.

Next thing we'll all be expected to buy 30" screens, or three of them, and then what? Like my $50 walmart desk will handle the weight of $4500 worth of three DELL 3008WFP...those bastards at AMD, what do they think I am? Made of money? I can't just replace my desk, or my crappy case, just because I decide to buy expensive GPU's and LCD's. This is lunacy!

 

[Idontcare]

Goto-san has put up a new Cypress article, has a pretty cool one-graphic summarization/comparison of R600 vs R770 vs. Cypress specs:

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/...ocs/317/309/hikaku.jpg

Quite a bit of discussion in the article itself regarding the bus architectures of RV770 and Cypress.

Original in Japanese

Google translated to English

 

[videogames101]

It seems this can't be avoided.

Keys, I have no problems with you, you have the right to whatever opinion you want. But, it doesn't do anything but fuel the fire when you say "I prefer Nvidia products." If you want to avoid being flamed, you should elaborate on that more. Instead of saying, " I prefer Nvidia.", say "I prefer Nvidia products be because x,y,z..."

I know the quote isn't exact, but I know you posted something like that, and thats probably why this thread got so far off-topic.


Just to point it out, I'm very much an ATI Fanboy, why? Because my first card was ATI, and it's nostalgic. Thats it.

Anyone want to try flaming me now? With a reason, it's a lot harder to commit personal attacks.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Lol, nice reason to be a fanboy there

What I dislike is people who are fanboys because of false arguments, such as "X company drivers suck!"

Both nvidia and amd drivers are good, having a bad experience in a certain system with a certain card in a certain setting means nothing, dont blame them

If things worked like that, statistics could be made from asking a single individual, who cares about the overall opinion right?

Anyway huh, carry on

 

[BenSkywalker]

Why are people arguing with Ben regarding Nvidia and AMD? He was part of the viral marketing crew back in the day...

Openly admitting you are a liar, a different approach then most take.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Don't worry, I think that I have more posts in this thread than you do, and I'm not crapping on either camp. Well, maybe I'm crapping on both a little bit, since I WAS slightly disappointed in 5870 due to unrealistically high expectations, and I am HIGHLY disappointed in nvidias pathetic response thus far.

Honestly I think that is why some people are getting so worked up. If the 5870 was a homerun, they wouldnt have to start personally attacking others.

The wierd thing is, it was people who were trying to hype 5XXX that eventually led to it's luke-warm reception by enthusiasts.

5870 has great performance over the previous gen, but the fact that people were posting that it would be 2X 4890 because of the doubled specs, made it seem like it fell short.

 

[bryanW1995]

I just remember reading a LOT of times from different posters that it was supposed to be faster than gtx 295. Some people even thought it would smoke gtx 295. clearly it doesn't. Is it a more desirable solution for most users even at ~10% slower speed than gtx 295? sure, it is dx11, it has cool new features, it is, um, "cool", it is single card so doesn't have the xfire drawbacks, uses less power, etc... Most impartial hardcore gamers would in fact probably prefer 5870 to any other single card out there even with the actual results. The results were good enough, there was no need to exaggerate anything here. The web sites that bought some of the early bs and tried to compare 5870 to gtx 295 were typically not too thrilled, the websites that actually waited on judgement and compared the card to gtx 285 were on the whole very exicted.

 

[lopri]

7950 GX2 vs. 8800 GTX
9800 GX2 vs. GTX 280
HD 3870 X2 vs. HD 4890

And now,

GTX 295 vs. HD 5870

Are these really such a difficult choice? I'm very confused.

Edit: I mean, I thought it was a settled wisdom that one should go for the best single-GPU card that s/he can afford before considering multi-GPU configurations.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: OCguy
5870 has great performance over the previous gen, but the fact that people were posting that it would be 2X 4890 because of the doubled specs, made it seem like it fell short.

It does get sort of close to 2x4890 though AT THE HIGHEST RES...look at that Guru3D review posted earlier. Put me in the underwhelmed camp BUT for the price (not something ridiculous like $600) I think it's pretty good.

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Any particular reason you felt that the 4870X2 was the GTX280 destroyer then, but discount the faster GTX295 now? Being totally against a GTX295/5870 comparison today? Explain this one away.

Not that I really care, but I just thought people should know in light of your sudden distaste for multi-gpu vs. single gpu comparisons.

Going to PMs. This thread has been derailed enough. If you have a personal vendetta, we can clear it up through PMs.
For the record, I was excited for the X2 upon its release, but you'll find many other posts where I discredit SLI AND Crossfire. I never bought an X2 card, or SLI card, and never will.
The reason you'll find me enthusiastic about ATI for the past year or two is because I was a diehard NV fan for a long, long time.. I've spent thousands on their stuff.. they really dropped the ball on their drivers and fell far behind in hardware feature sets.. it was too much for me to remain a loyal customer when all their positives no longer were there.
ATI has been putting out very compelling product for a while now. Great drivers, very fast hardware, newer DX revisions, HDMI audio was very cool, and I'm going to be taking advantage of triple display out on my 5870 (and HDMI audio).
My bad attitude towards Nvidia has been because of the driver letdown. I had a lot of problems with them for a while, I think it was because they were behind ATI on Vista/7 driver development.. and their executives and spokespeople were a little brash for me.. they dont make that great of product to warrant the huff and puff. Nvidia for some years has appeared abrasive and brash. Without driver superiority, their first class marketing meant nothing to me anymore.

That said, I'm loyal to nothing that is not loyal to me. If Nvidia gets an engineering team better than ATI's.. I'll be buying Nvidia no doubt.

BTW, the 4870X2 and 295 WERE very cool. I was excited about both. Now that the 5870 is here with 295 speed and new features I see very little attractive about Nvidia's lineup.

Anyway Keys, one of us needs to stop this feud.. which itself is dampering enthusiasm for these cards and everyones excited about them. So this is my last response to you in this thread.
You have mail.

 

[MrK6]

Originally posted by: lopriGTX 295 vs. HD 5870

Are these really such a difficult choice? I'm very confused.

Edit: I mean, I thought it was a settled wisdom that one should go for the best single-GPU card that s/he can afford before considering multi-GPU configurations.

Pretty much. In my short experience, the 5870 is, for all intents and purposes, equivalent to the GTX295 (I'd say generally 95% of the performance, but sometimes it is faster). However, the 5870's game play is so much better than the GTX295, I can easily recommend it over one.

Also, it does matter whose product you "prefer," it's a moot point. The new 5xxx series from ATI seriously outclasses any high-end offering from NVIDIA, case closed.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: lopri
7950 GX2 vs. 8800 GTX
9800 GX2 vs. GTX 280
HD 3870 X2 vs. HD 4890

And now,

GTX 295 vs. HD 5870

Are these really such a difficult choice? I'm very confused.

Edit: I mean, I thought it was a settled wisdom that one should go for the best single-GPU card that s/he can afford before considering multi-GPU configurations.

Eas your mind friend, Simply go back to the 4870x2 launch . Read post , There is N0 confusion here . Whats happening is perfectly clear, If you read those threads were the 4870x2 became the Fastest single cards. Do it go back read those threads. You will find confusion turn to insight and you will become at eas, I spoke of this very thing in one of those threads.

 

[bryanW1995]

If Nvidia gets an engineering team better than ATI's.. I'll be buying Nvidia no doubt.

sure you will... did you buy an 8800gtx when it was so clearly superior to ati's offerings? 8800gt? If you did, then why are you so clearly favoring ati in your posts and going nuclear on people who favor nvidia?

@nemesis: be at peace my friend. You will find true happiness through meditation. A pinch in time saves nine. Chuch norris can kill two stones with one bird.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

If Nvidia gets an engineering team better than ATI's.. I'll be buying Nvidia no doubt.

sure you will... did you buy an 8800gtx when it was so clearly superior to ati's offerings? 8800gt? If you did, then why are you so clearly favoring ati in your posts and going nuclear on people who favor nvidia?

I know you are not calling out me but FWIW I did have a mfr OC'd OCZ 8800GTX 768MB as soon as my X1900XT 512MB reached its zenith. It was a bit overpriced but an awesome card, lasted up until I bought my first 4850 512 (it was a temp fix until 4850X2 2GB arrived.)

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I withstood the initial urge to buy a 5870 mostly due to the early adapter premium and I wasn't staying up all night just for the chance to buy one. Right now I'm not interested in buying one until I see what nvidia has in store. I have always had good luck with nvidia and I love evga products. My rig wouldn't be complete until I get my hands on a EVGA GTX 300. I'm guess I'm what you'd call a fanboy and sure ATI landed a good punch but nvidia is still on their feet and nvidia's got a hell of a right hook.

 

[bryanW1995]

I used to think that evga, bfg, and xfx were a big advantage for nvidia since they were the consensus top 3, but now that xfx is going both ways, VT is strong, plus asus, gigabyte, sapphire, his, etc you have a lot of decent choices with ati as well.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASHearly adapter

Genius. Sometimes typos make create great, new and int his case, highly relevant and funny expressions...

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

If Nvidia gets an engineering team better than ATI's.. I'll be buying Nvidia no doubt.

sure you will... did you buy an 8800gtx when it was so clearly superior to ati's offerings? 8800gt? If you did, then why are you so clearly favoring ati in your posts and going nuclear on people who favor nvidia?

@nemesis: be at peace my friend. You will find true happiness through meditation. A pinch in time saves nine. Chuch norris can kill two stones with one bird.

I'm ready for your written apology. Yes, I bought a 8800GTX on launch day for $650.

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Pulled this bad boy out of my gmail as well-

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You mention the 8800GT, that as well on launch. And there's a LOT more where that came from.
I can guarantee I've spent far more than you, or Keys (who PMs me back then blocks me because he can't handle losing a debate with me, how childish) buying Nvidia products.

I know you think I'm devoted to ATI, but I'm just an honest consumer. What's being spewed is Nvidia marketing, plain and simple. Not the right answers for someone like myself, who's bought more NV product than most people posting here.

Simply put, for someone like me who's not afraid to spill the cash.. NV used to be the hot ticket. It's not anymore. I feel just as strongly about stopping the devoted NV marketers as I did about Nvidia product back in the day, when it was warranted.

You'll see NV's marketing team repeating the same message, always, because that's what they're paid to do! Finding me posting something that might contradict what I'm saying now has nothing to do with my credibility.. it proves that I'm honest and capable of change like a normal unbiased consumer can be. When you're tied to a company or a fanboy, of course you'll appear loyal and true to your dogma.
I'm only true to myself, and try to help out the members of this forum, not dissuade them from the truth of the matter in this market.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I used to think that evga, bfg, and xfx were a big advantage for nvidia since they were the consensus top 3,

[/quote]

By who? Probably by people who don't have a clue about them - eVGA is not even a manufacturer, it's only a brand, swapped on OEM cards made by Jetway. BFG is the same thing, a logo on Foxconn-made cards IIRC.

XFX is at least a brand of Pine Group, a decent OEM so at least they mfr thus control their own chain.

but now that xfx is going both ways, VT is strong, plus asus, gigabyte, sapphire, his, etc you have a lot of decent choices with ati as well.

Sapphire is a huge OEM cardmaker, even Built by ATI cards were Sapphire ever since they stopped making cards (though they still have their little card fab up in the White North.) And ASUS and Gigabytes were and are part of the Big 5 - ATI always had high quality vendors, I have no idea what are you talking about.