ATi 5850/5870 review thread

[OCGuy]

From Anand:

"The catch however is that what we don?t have is a level of clear domination when it comes to single-card solutions. AMD was shooting to beat the GTX 295 with the 5870, but in our benchmarks that?s not happening"


I dont know why the ATi people even made that the goal. The gains are nice enough that they didnt need to try and beat 2X 275s with a single GPU.

Unless nV really screws things up, the door is wide open to retain the performance crown. Until then, AMD/Ati, whatever you want to call it, has an advantage going into the Xmas season.

Without DX11 being even semi-important at this moment, however, they may be shooting themselves in the foot with such a good price/performace as 4890.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: dguy6789

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: dguy6789
It's cheaper than a GTX295 and GTX 280 sli....

It's about $100 cheaper than the GTX 295, which is a good value, but it's not mindblowing in any sense. That's the issue, the 5870 is a good card, but it isn't really going to get anyone excited like RV770 or G80. It's the best card at its pricepoint, but it isn't better or even equal to more expensive parts. It doesn't change the marketplace in any way. nVidia will not have to respond to the 5800 series in any way if it doesn't want to. The only thing they need to do is lower the price of the 285 to $299 or less.

Anyway you have to be a bit concerned about how RV870 will compete with nVidia's next generation part. Of course who knows what GT300 will be like, it could be a flop, but it won't take much to beat RV870. If they improve GTX 285 performance by 50% or so they will easily have the fastest card.

Anandtech:

Crysis Warhead:

GTX 295: 25.5FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 24.9FPS

FarCry 2:

GTX 295: 58.2FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 58.4FPS

Battleforge:

GTX 295: 48.5FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 39FPS

World of Warcraft:

GTX295: 68.9FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 73FPS

Hawkx:

GTX295: 79FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 68FPS

Dawn of War II:

GTX 295: 49.2FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 55.6FPS

Resident Evil 5:

GTX 295: 84.1FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 72.9FPS

Batman Arkham Asylum:

GTX 295: 131FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 102FPS

Left 4 Dead:

GTX 295: 117.1FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 108.7FPS

Yeah, the HD5870 isn't even close to the GTX295 :roll: Yeah Nvidia doesn't have to react at all to the $100 price difference the GTX295 has over the 5870.... Fanboyism at its finest.

Well if you do the math, the gtx295 has a total of 662 fps vs 602 for the 5870. Whats that about 11% faster? The 295 cost 23% more. So the 295 would have to frop about 40$ to to be even. I'd call that close.
Fanboy facts as there finest

Don't forget beta drivers and no DX11 games. Pretty much even most of the current DX10/10.1 games are basically DX9.

It isn't hard to predict that the 5870 will only become stronger vs the 285/295/4890/4870x2.

 

[dguy6789]

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: dguy6789

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: dguy6789
It's cheaper than a GTX295 and GTX 280 sli....

It's about $100 cheaper than the GTX 295, which is a good value, but it's not mindblowing in any sense. That's the issue, the 5870 is a good card, but it isn't really going to get anyone excited like RV770 or G80. It's the best card at its pricepoint, but it isn't better or even equal to more expensive parts. It doesn't change the marketplace in any way. nVidia will not have to respond to the 5800 series in any way if it doesn't want to. The only thing they need to do is lower the price of the 285 to $299 or less.

Anyway you have to be a bit concerned about how RV870 will compete with nVidia's next generation part. Of course who knows what GT300 will be like, it could be a flop, but it won't take much to beat RV870. If they improve GTX 285 performance by 50% or so they will easily have the fastest card.

Anandtech:

Crysis Warhead:

GTX 295: 25.5FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 24.9FPS

FarCry 2:

GTX 295: 58.2FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 58.4FPS

Battleforge:

GTX 295: 48.5FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 39FPS

World of Warcraft:

GTX295: 68.9FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 73FPS

Hawkx:

GTX295: 79FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 68FPS

Dawn of War II:

GTX 295: 49.2FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 55.6FPS

Resident Evil 5:

GTX 295: 84.1FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 72.9FPS

Batman Arkham Asylum:

GTX 295: 131FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 102FPS

Left 4 Dead:

GTX 295: 117.1FPS
Radeon HD 5870: 108.7FPS

Yeah, the HD5870 isn't even close to the GTX295 :roll: Yeah Nvidia doesn't have to react at all to the $100 price difference the GTX295 has over the 5870.... Fanboyism at its finest.

Well if you do the math, the gtx295 has a total of 662 fps vs 602 for the 5870. Whats that about 11% faster? The 295 cost 23% more. So the 295 would have to frop about 40$ to to be even. I'd call that close.
Fanboy facts as there finest

That's not really an accurate way to do things at all. These are just some random games that were benchmarked on this site. I doubt it would be hard to find other games that the 295 is faster in or that the 5870 is faster in. You can't base the card's entire value on one set of games. The fact is that there are games where the GTX 295 is slower than the 5870 and no price other than one that is lower than the 5870 would make a 295 a better buy for someone who plays those games. This is without even considering the value of having full DX11 support.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: OCguy
From Anand:

"The catch however is that what we don?t have is a level of clear domination when it comes to single-card solutions. AMD was shooting to beat the GTX 295 with the 5870, but in our benchmarks that?s not happening"


I dont know why the ATi people even made that the goal. The gains are nice enough that they didnt need to try and beat 2X 275s with a single GPU.

Unless nV really screws things up, the door is wide open to retain the performance crown. Until then, AMD/Ati, whatever you want to call it, has an advantage going into the Xmas season.

Without DX11 being even semi-important at this moment, however, they may be shooting themselves in the foot with such a good price/performace as 4890.

The thing is they aren't exactly losing all the time either (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com...b-gddr5-review-19.html interesting review with min frame rates), and while it is tempting to buy 2x4890 for the price of a 5870, while no DX11 games are around atm they aren't years away either and the first generation to play those games will be the 5xxx and the GT300.

That said, atm (with beta drivers), they aren't as good in price performance as the 4890.

Still, atm, nV isn't at the best position - unless you are a CUDA user or a physX fan (or both).

Waiting for the GT300 debut now

EDIT: And lets not forget the 5870 2GB.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Techpowerup's review has the 5850, too, apparently: http://www.techpowerup.com/rev.../Radeon_HD_5870/6.html

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
Techpowerup's review has the 5850, too, apparently: http://www.techpowerup.com/rev.../Radeon_HD_5870/6.html

Yeah. Just been reading that one as well.

Techpowerup puts the 5870 much closer to the 295/4870x2 and has the 5850 beating the GTX 285 constantly and even the 4870x2/295 on occasion.

The old FarCry results are interesting...

 

[lopri]

Color me impressed. It's easily the best GPU launch from ATI since the venerable 9700 Pro. Performance is certainly there to justify the price, and AMD apparently listened to users. Almost all issues that plagued the forums like forever have been fixed overnight. Idle power/temp, clock transitions, filtering quality, HD audio support, seamless multi-monitor setups.. Add DX11 support, this GPU seems to have it all, at least on paper.

Only concerns of mine are the noise level under load, and lack of driver-level SSAA for DX10/DX11. I'd also have liked to see a 2GB SKU at launch, but I guess that will have to wait for AIB models.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: lopri
Color me impressed. It's easily the best GPU launch from ATI since the venerable 9700 Pro. Performance is certainly there to justify the price, and AMD apparently listened to users. Almost all issues that plagued the forums like forever have been fixed overnight. Idle power/temp, clock transitions, filtering quality, HD audio support, seamless multi-monitor setups.. Add DX11 support, this GPU seems to have it all, at least on paper.

Only concerns of mine are the noise level under load, and lack of driver-level SSAA for DX10/DX11. I'd also have liked to see a 2GB SKU at launch, but I guess that will have to wait for AIB models.

Should be interesting as the dx11 games roll out. Lets hope nvidia can get a card out the door so prices can drop.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
Techpowerup's review has the 5850, too, apparently: http://www.techpowerup.com/rev.../Radeon_HD_5870/6.html

Yeah. Just been reading that one as well.

Techpowerup puts the 5870 much closer to the 295/4870x2 and has the 5850 beating the GTX 285 constantly and even the 4870x2/295 on occasion.

The old FarCry results are interesting...

I (Excel) just crunched some numbers:

On average, and this is consistent except in the very CPU-limited games like TF2, the 5850 is 85% as fast as the 5870. Or in other words, the 5870 is 17% faster than the 5850.

edit: LOL, I didn't need to crunch numbers because they already normalized the results in their review. DOH!

 

[Illyan]

Why is it that the 5870, which is double the 4870 in every respect (except memory interface) and doesn't have the overhead of crossfire, gets beat by the 4870X2 by quite a bit in some games? I don't see how that's possible. Even at perfect scaling, the 4870X2 should at most equal the 5870 right? Is it the memory? Each GPU on the X2 has 1GB, whereas the 5870 only has 1GB total, so maybe that's it. Or is it just immature drivers?

Either way, its nice to see ATI with the single GPU crown again.

 

[dguy6789]

Originally posted by: Illyan
Why is it that the 5870, which is double the 4870 in every respect (except memory interface) and doesn't have the overhead of crossfire, gets beat by the 4870X2 by quite a bit in some games? I don't see how that's possible. Even at perfect scaling, the 4870X2 should at most equal the 5870 right? Is it the memory? Each GPU on the X2 has 1GB, whereas the 5870 only has 1GB total, so maybe that's it. Or is it just immature drivers?

Either way, its nice to see ATI with the single GPU crown again.

The 5870 has a 100% increase in GPU power coupled with a less than 40% increase in memory bandwidth. That's probably why. The X2 cards of last generation still have more memory bandwidth available at their disposal than the 5870, but less GPU resources.

 

[CP5670]

The 5870 offers a good but not spectacular improvement over previous single GPU cards. I will pass on it, especially since Crysis and Warhead are the only games that don't run well on my 280, and it's not worth upgrading just for those.

It's nice to see fully angle-independent AF and rotated grid SSAA though. :thumbsup: I don't think the latter has been seen at all since the Voodoo 5.

The old FarCry results are interesting...

Those results would be more useful if they had turned on HDR. Far Cry with HDR and adaptive/transparency AA at high resolutions is actually fairly demanding on current cards, and it still has the graphics to match.

 

[imported_Asianman]

They should have made the 5870 with a 384 bit bus, that may have made it much more potent. That would have given about 225GB/S of bandwidth, and should have provided the performance it needs.
(Doesn't mean I'm not going to buy one, I'm just wondering what may have been...)

 

[StinkyPinky]

I'm more impressed with the 5850. It's a lot cheaper than the 5870 and is over twice as fast as my 8800gt. I'll probably get the 5850 when it's available. Great mid-range card.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Also there are room for improvement on the driver side of things.

 

[mmnno]

Price drops are more impressive than performance to me. The 4890's price progression has been more interesting than the 58xx series launch, so I really hope the new cards will follow in the footsteps of the last series.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Just finished the AT review. Im not sure why some people aren't impressed.

The $379 HD5870 is trading blows with the GTX295/HD4870X2 which are $450+ and clearly beats out the GTX285 with ease. This is all with beta drivers, where there is possible performance improvements to widen the gap (Similiar to the GTX280 now being over faster than the 9800GX2 compared to launch day).

Originally posted by: lopri
Color me impressed. It's easily the best GPU launch from ATI since the venerable 9700 Pro. Performance is certainly there to justify the price, and AMD apparently listened to users. Almost all issues that plagued the forums like forever have been fixed overnight. Idle power/temp, clock transitions, filtering quality, HD audio support, seamless multi-monitor setups.. Add DX11 support, this GPU seems to have it all, at least on paper.

Only concerns of mine are the noise level under load, and lack of driver-level SSAA for DX10/DX11. I'd also have liked to see a 2GB SKU at launch, but I guess that will have to wait for AIB models.

Agreed. This card has everything one could want atm. Im still wondering if the HD5870 downclocks itself when multi monitors are used. Something that has been a problem for past generation cards.

 

[Piano Man]

The FPS/$ on these cards is pretty meh for me. Definitely trending towards Nvidia pricing. Remember getting the 4890 for $150 soon after it came out? I just don't see that happening here. I might try to get the 5850, but availability looks piss poor right now. Guess I was hoping for too much. Still, the power usage seems pretty good, and hopefully with some voltage mods/aftermarket cooling, we may see some decent OCs.

 

[nCred]

Looking at the performance summary from both the 5870 and 4870 reviews at Techpowerup, the 5870 is 60 % faster than the 4870, which it self is 60 % faster than the 3870. As I remember it, most people thought the 4870 was a huge improvement, so I don't see why people should be dissapointed with the 5870.

 

[dadach]

Originally posted by: nCred
Looking at the performance summary from both the 5870 and 4870 reviews at Techpowerup, the 5870 is 60 % faster than the 4870, which it self is 60 % faster than the 3870. As I remember it, most people thought the 4870 was a huge improvement, so I don't see why people should be dissapointed with the 5870.

they shouldnt be...what did they expect?...this is the fastest single gpu solution by far...better IQ...better power consumption + it will only get better with future driver releases

 

[nCred]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: dguy6789
It's cheaper than a GTX295 and GTX 280 sli....

It's about $100 cheaper than the GTX 295, which is a good value, but it's not mindblowing in any sense. That's the issue, the 5870 is a good card, but it isn't really going to get anyone excited like RV770 or G80. It's the best card at its pricepoint, but it isn't better or even equal to more expensive parts. It doesn't change the marketplace in any way. nVidia will not have to respond to the 5800 series in any way if it doesn't want to. The only thing they need to do is lower the price of the 285 to $299 or less.

umm.. the $259 5850 beats the GTX 285 in most benchmarks.

 

[palladium]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...lay/radeon-hd5870.html

xbit reviews

 

[imported_Shaq]

Wide variances on the reviews. Some have the 5870 tied with the 295 and others show it behind up to 30%. If Nvidia drops the 295 to $449 and the 285 to $299 I think they will be okay.

Edit: Xbitlabs has the 295 winning all the high-res benches. That doesn't seem right compared to the rest of the reviews.

 

[Gikaseixas]

the price is exactly where it should be IMO. The GTX 285 is a great card and gets beaten by the 5780 across the board so why are some people complaining "oh the price this and that".

5850 is very impressive

 

[Qbah]

The HD5870 was hyped to be a GTX295 equal, which clearly it is not - it handily beats the GTX285 but that was never in question. It is also more expensive than a GTX285. Add the fact that the initial availability will be very low, I find this a bit disappointing.

Don't get me wrong, the card is fast. It's just not as fast as I expected based on the leaks. And not counting the HD5870x2 with all the (again) scaling, noise and driver support issues (not to mention no idea when it will launch!), this will be the top single card until nVidia launches the GT300. I don't really see ATi gaining that much market share with this. It's most definitely not a "8-series launch" type of jump. And that would be the only thing that could help ATi catch up on nVidia. Just my thoughts on it.

I won't be buying this most likely. Unless there's a game I really need to play on my PC that will totally blow on my Xbox.