ATi 5850/5870 review thread

[Compddd]

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Azn
There's already 5850 benchmark #'s here. http://www.techpowerup.com/rev.../Radeon_HD_5870/7.html

Basically GTX 285 has been sitting there at $325-400 price range even though 4870x2 cards have been sitting at the same price and perform better yet people still buy up GTX285. This puts pressure on both GTX285 and GTX295. Once 5850 is released GTX285 should be no more than $200.

Supposedly ATI is dropping 4870x2 cards for these new cards.

Pressure? Not until it's on the shelves at frys and microcenter and on newegg.com for sale will it matter to Nvidia. They'll continue to sell cards at the current pricing until availability of the 5870/5850 makes it not viable.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance. Looks like the 5850 is the part that should help shake things up, the only thing the 5870 seems to be in a good position to do is put pricing pressure on the 295(not necessarily a bad thing, just very far removed from the hyper competitive landscape we have come to expect lately). Waiting to see some 5850 numbers and see how that stacks up to 260SLI solutions, I'm thinking it should come out a bit ahead in the value equation, curious to see if it is by a large enough margin to put pricing pressure on that segment.

I am very impressed that ATi finally fixed the hideously ugly AF they have had for so long, some of the tests indicate that it may even be able to give the NV2x cores a run for their money in terms of quality. That to me is a FAR larger improvement then Eyefinity.

I think on realistic terms, we aren't going to see great values on this generation for quite a while. I would imagine that nV will be a decent amount faster with their high end part, and they will take full advantage of that and price it accordingly(I don't see them putting price pressure on ATi until they start losing a reasonable amount of marketshare which the 48xx line failed to do while being a much better relative value). Not a major issue for me, no game I'm playing currently comes close to pushing my current hardware, so until I do a full overhaul I'll be content and buy whatever is in the sweet spot for price performance when the time comes(probably Q1 ish).

Do you have crossfire/sli right now? I can hardly see going that route unless absolutely necessary or you have a great deal fall into your lap on a 2nd card after already owning the first.

the AF is, according to anand, technically perfect. It's not giving anybody a "run for their money", it's better than nvidia's. Good luck telling it apart from a gt200 in a game, however.

I'm also very interested in what happens with 5850. I wonder if it's actually built with fewer SIMD units or if the others are simply disabled/defective? Hmmm...

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance. Looks like the 5850 is the part that should help shake things up, the only thing the 5870 seems to be in a good position to do is put pricing pressure on the 295(not necessarily a bad thing, just very far removed from the hyper competitive landscape we have come to expect lately). Waiting to see some 5850 numbers and see how that stacks up to 260SLI solutions, I'm thinking it should come out a bit ahead in the value equation, curious to see if it is by a large enough margin to put pricing pressure on that segment.

I am very impressed that ATi finally fixed the hideously ugly AF they have had for so long, some of the tests indicate that it may even be able to give the NV2x cores a run for their money in terms of quality. That to me is a FAR larger improvement then Eyefinity.

I think on realistic terms, we aren't going to see great values on this generation for quite a while. I would imagine that nV will be a decent amount faster with their high end part, and they will take full advantage of that and price it accordingly(I don't see them putting price pressure on ATi until they start losing a reasonable amount of marketshare which the 48xx line failed to do while being a much better relative value). Not a major issue for me, no game I'm playing currently comes close to pushing my current hardware, so until I do a full overhaul I'll be content and buy whatever is in the sweet spot for price performance when the time comes(probably Q1 ish).

Do you have crossfire/sli right now? I can hardly see going that route unless absolutely necessary or you have a great deal fall into your lap on a 2nd card after already owning the first.

the AF is, according to anand, technically perfect. It's not giving anybody a "run for their money", it's better than nvidia's. Good luck telling it apart from a gt200 in a game, however.

I'm also very interested in what happens with 5850. I wonder if it's actually built with fewer SIMD units or if the others are simply disabled/defective? Hmmm...

That's the thing. Better it may be when you see a screenshot zoomed in, but when in motion shooting at things can you tell? I couldn't probably...

I'm personally sitting on a very good setup with my GTX295 and am going to wait it out for Nvidia's next card(s) before I decide if I want a DX11 card or not. Plus, I get the usage of Cuda and Physx which I do use to some extent with folding and various games that run physx. Maybe you'll say to yourself "who cares?" well, I do so there

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Compddd

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

I dont know, I'm sure there are people out there that dont mind Xfire that would see getting 2x4890s and better performance for less than the 5870 as a good deal.

Some people dont have the power supplies to do that though.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Compddd

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

I dont know, I'm sure there are people out there that dont mind Xfire that would see getting 2x4890s and better performance for less than the 5870 as a good deal.

Some people dont have the power supplies to do that though.

This is true. Some people are all about getting the fastest FPS at their given resolution no matter what. That's why some people have setup Quad SLI systems with 2xGTX295s. Although this setup does have issues that a single card does not and a dual GPU card has issues a single GPU card does not.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Compddd

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

I dont know, I'm sure there are people out there that dont mind Xfire that would see getting 2x4890s and better performance for less than the 5870 as a good deal.

Some people dont have the power supplies to do that though.

Only people that should consider that route are the ones with a 4890 already. Buying from scrap no reason to not go 5870 over 4890CF.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

There is absolutely no need to go with a dual card SLI/xFire solution when a SINGLE CARD will net you the same performance at the same price, if not cheaper. Plus you get added extras like EyeFinity, BITSTREAMING HD AUDIO SUPPORT (THIS IS HUGE FOR HT ENTHUSIASTS), and DirectX 11 compatability. Quite frankly even if I had the GTX295 I'd still sell it and go with the 5870.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Compddd

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

I dont know, I'm sure there are people out there that dont mind Xfire that would see getting 2x4890s and better performance for less than the 5870 as a good deal.

Some people dont have the power supplies to do that though.

Only people that should consider that route are the ones with a 4890 already. Buying from scrap no reason to not go 5870 over 4890CF.

Well, maybe in the mindset you're using. But lets pretend for a moment that you absolutely must have the most FPS possible for under $400. You would get 2x 4890 and crossfire them for $350 which is cheaper than one 5870. They will perform better than a single 5870 in today's games which is what the type of gamer I'm talking about does. They don't care about the next game (remember cryostasis hype for physx and the game tanked), they care about what they are playing now and want the max performance now.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
There is absolutely no need to go with a dual card SLI/xFire solution when a SINGLE CARD will net you the same performance at the same price, if not cheaper. Plus you get added extras like EyeFinity, BITSTREAMING HD AUDIO SUPPORT (THIS IS HUGE FOR HT ENTHUSIASTS), and DirectX 11 compatability. Quite frankly even if I had the GTX295 I'd still sell it and go with the 5870.

Why sell the GTX295 when it is still superior in performance in many instances? Also, show me the DX11 games. No? Ok...so why do I care about DX11? I don't, nobody should if they have a card like the GTX295. There's no point to wet your panties over the 5870 if you are lucky enough to have a card such as the GTX295. Like I said before, look at 4870x2 numbers they are ahead of the 5870 single card. You can get TWO 4890 cards for under $350 and the 5870 is $400 or so. There is a good percentage of gamers, myself included who doesn't care about DX11 until it's used in a game worth a damn.

Also, if you can afford an eyfinity setup you wouldn't even have a single card to begin I wouldn't think. You'd probably go all out anyway.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Although the 2GB version might make a difference

I find it extremely weird that this new card is at its best around 1600x200 or so... But when pushed to 2560x1600, the GTX285 catches up... How is that possible? It must be some memory problem, since the 5870 has monster specs that should make it pull ahead even further

Also, people thinking that we are disappointed because of how it compares to the GTX295: No

Why people compare a new single card to previous gen dual cards is beyond me... Dual cards often have bad scaling and the scaling just plain fluctuates alot

I am disappointed because of how it compares to the 285, which is another single card, there you can see 100% to 100% performance figures, and the 5870 is still only 25-30% faster

Who cares if its faster than a GTX295 in a game that scales 30-50% only? Meaningless

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Although the 2GB version might make a difference

I find it extremely weird that this new card is at its best around 1600x200 or so... But when pushed to 2560x1600, the GTX285 catches up... How is that possible? It must be some memory problem, since the 5870 has monster specs that should make it pull ahead even further

Also, people thinking that we are disappointed because of how it compares to the GTX295: No

Why people compare a new single card to previous gen dual cards is beyond me... Dual cards often have bad scaling and the scaling just plain fluctuates alot

I am disappointed because of how it compares to the 285, which is another single card, there you can see 100% to 100% performance figures, and the 5870 is still only 25-30% faster

Who cares if its faster than a GTX295 in a game that scales 30-50% only? Meaningless

It's meaningful because ALL the previews and speculation said it was faster than the 295 and it is not. At least not in the way it was made out to be. THAT is what I am talking about. You compare it because it's there and the performance is similar, yet it doesn't win every time when everyone was saying it would just a few days ago.

Scaling doesn't matter when the performance is there. If it's only 30% faster than the single GPU that's STILL 30% additional performance added in on the benchmark and timedemo.

The final paragraph on firingsquad's review sums it all up for me...



"Yes ATI, the game has changed, and you?re now the technology and performance leader. Clearly NVIDIA?s probably encouraged by the early performance results for 5870 though. Their GeForce GTX 295 is still the world?s fastest card, and while it?s now based on outdated technology, until the first DX11 titles show up, DirectX 11 is only an advantage that exists on paper."

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

It's meaningful because ALL the previews and speculation said it was faster than the 295 and it is not. At least not in the way it was made out to be. THAT is what I am talking about. You compare it because it's there and the performance is similar, yet it doesn't win every time when everyone was saying it would just a few days ago.

And was that the 5870 1GB in the AMD slides? Or the 2GB?

Will the extra memory do any difference at all?

Or was really just hype?

I'm asking this because the 5850 does compare to the 285 as the slides indicated.

 

[MegaWorks]

This card needs this type of memory and it will have around ~190GB/sec.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

It's meaningful because ALL the previews and speculation said it was faster than the 295 and it is not. At least not in the way it was made out to be. THAT is what I am talking about. You compare it because it's there and the performance is similar, yet it doesn't win every time when everyone was saying it would just a few days ago.

And was that the 5870 1GB in the AMD slides? Or the 2GB?

Will the extra memory do any difference at all?

Or was really just hype?

I'm asking this because the 5850 does compare to the 285 as the slides indicated.

Well, some of it wasn't slides but charts produced by someone else with no indicator of settings etc. Anyway the point was, there was a section of the internet who said it was faster. There was no indication of whether it was 2GB or not you're right.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Well, some of it wasn't slides but charts produced by someone else with no indicator of settings etc. Anyway the point was, there was a section of the internet who said it was faster. There was no indication of whether it was 2GB or not you're right.

I have personally never seen a 2GB variant of any card make a big enough difference to warrant the $$$$.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Compddd

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

I think he meant performance per dollar guys. The 5870, as is apparent on MANY a forum after these reviews, has discredited itself by falling short of all the hype that flew around for the past months.

And @ OneofTheseDays. READ

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Well, some of it wasn't slides but charts produced by someone else with no indicator of settings etc. Anyway the point was, there was a section of the internet who said it was faster. There was no indication of whether it was 2GB or not you're right.

I have personally never seen a 2GB variant of any card make a big enough difference to warrant the $$$$.

True.

But most (if any) of those cards weren't high end cards.

Additionally, some of the reviews around show some interesting results concerning the 5870 and that makes me wonder if extra memory (and of course extra bandwidth) wouldn't have an impact.

On the other hand it is possible that the 2GB version doesn't improve at all.

In that case those slides were really a case of hyping.

Just speculation.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

It's sad to see the Nvidia fanboys in full force here. Unfortunately it seems that even the moderators cannot be free from their own inherent bias.

From a complete features perspective the 5870 is a winner all around. It has something for everybody (bitstreaming HD audio support for the HT enthusiast, Eyefinity for the guy who wants triple displays or more, perfect anisotropic filtering and improved AA for the image quality sticklers, all around kick ass performance for the hardcore gamer, a decent cooling solution that by most accounts is not too obtrusive, etc.). Rarely do you see a card get it right in so many areas.

ATI has a real winner on their hands and the only ones who can't see it are the idiots who are still trying to argue about trivial things like stupid rumors that flew by weeks and months before this product's release.


Please refrain from the personal attacks and mod callouts.

AmberClad
Video Moderator

 

[RobertR1]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Compddd

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

I think he meant performance per dollar guys. The 5870, as is apparent on MANY a forum after these reviews, has discredited itself by falling short of all the hype that flew around for the past months.

And @ OneofTheseDays. READ

lol "discredited"?

When the proper Dual GPU card is released and measured head to head, it'll spank the Nvidia's dual GPU solution. I'm sure you're already working on moving the goal posts though.

The 5870 also give 8xAA performance with minimal impact over 4xAA. It's got objectively perfect AF. It's DX11 compliant. It's fast and efficient. For you, it's just the wrong manufacturer.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
stuff

I think you got me wrong

I mean, people are using the GTX295 as a reason to justify the 5870 having good performance, and Im saying thats meaningless, because the only reason it wins in some games is due to poor scaling on the GTX295, and not because the 5870 is actually that fast

In all review sites the editors are like "Woah, it keeps up with dual gpu of last generation" - well no shit! If theres low scaling of course it can keep up

Thats my point

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
I think he meant performance per dollar guys. The 5870, as is apparent on MANY a forum after these reviews, has discredited itself by falling short of all the hype that flew around for the past months.

I dunno, it seems to perform well enough for the price to me. There are always going to be those people who expect 2x the performance for 1/2 the price. But I think most people had a bit more realistic price and performance expectations for the 5870.

 

[coldpower27]

I am a bit disappointed actually. It's only 35-45% faster then the GTX 280 on average at (2560x1600 with AA/AF), not enough of a reason to get me to upgrade. The best thing I can say about is though is the great power consumption characteristics, other then that, this product has not much compelling features for me to purchase it.

 

[bearnet2001]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Compddd

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

I think he meant performance per dollar guys. The 5870, as is apparent on MANY a forum after these reviews, has discredited itself by falling short of all the hype that flew around for the past months.

And @ OneofTheseDays. READ

No, the 5870 hasn't discredited itself by not living up the larger-than-the hype, the people spreading the hype have discredited themselves. When you take those over-sized expectations out of the picture and just focus on the card for what it is, it's a success.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: RobertR1

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Compddd

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

I think he meant performance per dollar guys. The 5870, as is apparent on MANY a forum after these reviews, has discredited itself by falling short of all the hype that flew around for the past months.

And @ OneofTheseDays. READ

lol "discredited"?

When the proper Dual GPU card is released and measured head to head, it'll spank the Nvidia's dual GPU solution. I'm sure you're already working on moving the goal posts though.

The 5870 also give 8xAA performance with minimal impact over 4xAA. It's got objectively perfect AF. It's DX11 compliant. It's fast and efficient. For you, it's just the wrong manufacturer.

You're calling mods fanboys now? Sheesh...calm down a bit.

Your first part was mentioned previously, by me...