ATi 5850/5870 review thread

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
It certainly does. It performs very well. Don't know why you interpret my posts in such ways.

Keys there are a lot of posts and threads here since I last came thru, too many to sift thru at the moment, but I wanted to ping you to see if you'd seen mention of or read this latest article by Goto-san regarding Cypress? (seems like this is the right thread to put this into anyways)

When I read it for some reason I couldn't help but to think of you:

? CPU processor dual-core approach similar to the two-fold

To achieve the performance of two times two times the size of the GPU. This time, GPU Ni?Tatte to double the size of the two, AMD is a CPU design that they take. It is a "dual core" of it. Responsible for the design of the bus said Fritz Kruger (Architect, AMD) is described as follows.

"From the perspective of system architecture, this Cypress is very similar to the RV770. The only difference is that the dual core. CPU and dual core is no longer so, How would that look somewhat similar. ( GPU internal bus) crossbar switch can not scale up much. So, CPU core has two separate two of the same reason, we divided into two cores and a single bus structure that is easily "

Cypress family of processors, the greater are actually divided into two groups. Each of two groups, such as Sureddoshikensa rasterizer and apparently has a processor control unit and perform the setup. In other words, RV770 processor group and the control part was in, each of two similar structures, such as Cypress has been contained within.

Analogy referring to the CPU, RV770 is a single core, Cypress's dual-core. Of course, CPU, dual core is completely different meaning and architecture. However, until now had control of the GPU processor all together, Cypress control of the processor in the sense that two separate groups of one degree, dual-core and close to the idea. In that sense, is Cypress's first dual-core GPU.

The advantage of this structure, GPU is one of the bottlenecks can be simpler than the one inside the bus configuration. As a result, GPU will be easier to design. Also, control processor, can be more simple.

To adopt a dual-core configuration

? SIMD two groups work seamlessly

AMD GPU, the processor is a SIMD (Single Instruction, Multiple Data) is a unit to perform the "SIMD cores (SIMD engine, also known as)" They are presented as. RV770 does this total was for 10 SIMD cores, Cypress has become pieces in 20. Cypress is a dual-core entities, RV770 equivalent to 1 as ten SIMD cores, 20 cores seems to be two things to manage the split core.

Cypress elements have shown that the structure of the dual-core, Cypress can be seen throughout the architecture. For example, Cypress offers the rasterizer to convert the polygon pixel is increased to two each. This is acceptable given per core and configuration of taking the rasterizer. In addition, the full set of threads allocated to each processor, and also to control Sureddoshikensa branching and thread switching are two pieces of the program. Cypress total of 20 SIMD cores, the 10 that are controlled Sureddoshikensa one by one. AMD officials have described as follows.

"Sureddoshikensa conducted by the branch control. RV770 in the 10's was one of SIMD. Cypress, the SIMD 10 and 20 of each group, each managed by Sureddoshikensa"

However, each was divided into two core Cypress (10 SIMD) is, CPU is much more tightly connected to the dual core.

"The software has two work seamlessly as a single core. For example, (thread) dispatch, and has been able to make load balancing across both cores. Therefore, here are the vertices of the polygon processing core, the core can dispatch and the other after processing pixel rasterization. in order to transfer data from one core from the core to the other, no need to write once memory.

The texture (data path) are (two cores) are shared. Texture is prevalent in two cores go. Texture (data path) are two core services across "(Kruger's)

In other words, the processor Sureddodisupatcha control group, seemed to be some control can be conducted across two cores. Therefore, the two can be considered to keep the load balancing operation processor cores busy.

Google Translated into English
Original in Japanese

I can't find Goto-san's source for his quote from Fritz Kruger, but at least you know you weren't entirely crazy after all. Or at least you aren't the only one who is crazy

I'll be damned.

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Hopefully BFG gets his hands on one so we can see some real IQ analysis

Heh, it?s funny you should mention that as there are rumblings that despite the invariant filtering angling, there?s still underfiltering happening on the textures themselves. The claims are that the part is better than the 4xxx but still a tad inferior to GT200 parts.

I have a pretty good idea where I?ll be checking this claim when/if I get such a part. I was going to get a 5870 immediately but I?m very disappointed with the super-sampling implementation, so now I might just get a 5850 to use for benchmarking/testing purposes.

Oh, and OneOfTheseDays? comments have been forwarded to another mod. I can?t mod them because I?ve posted as a regular member in this thread, but rest assured, the issue is being looked at.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
$170 for a 4890. 2 of those would be $40 less then a 5870 and faster. If you already own a 4890, the price gap grows considerably, although it being faster doesn't change. On the nV side you end up paying a bit more if you don't already have a 275, but again, it is a faster solution. Yes, dealing with the issues of SLI/CF have an impact, for those that already have a single board getting superior performance for half the money or less may make them tollerate a few hiccups.

How about in a year down the road when you just paid $200 more on electric bill for owning 2 4890 over 5870.

Do you get dx11, eyefinity, angle dependent aniso, SSAA, better overcurrent protection, HD bitstreaming with that 4890?

Now who's selling?

 

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
$170 for a 4890. 2 of those would be $40 less then a 5870 and faster. If you already own a 4890, the price gap grows considerably, although it being faster doesn't change. On the nV side you end up paying a bit more if you don't already have a 275, but again, it is a faster solution. Yes, dealing with the issues of SLI/CF have an impact, for those that already have a single board getting superior performance for half the money or less may make them tollerate a few hiccups.

How about in a year down the road when you just paid $200 more on electric bill for owning 2 4890 over 5870.

Do you get dx11, eyefinity, angle dependent aniso, SSAA, better overcurrent protection, HD bitstreaming with that 4890?

No good games for DX11 yet,
not everyone uses more than 1 monitor,
I can't even tell the difference between af modes,
SSAA is marginally better then normal AA at more performance costs,
don't run furmark or occt,
no HTPC,
since when do overclocking gamers care about electricity?


It does not make sense to buy a 5870 now. After GT300 comes out? Sure as hell you'll see price cuts, then, it will be time to pounce.

Also, not dealing with CF issues is a very valid reason for not going with 2 HD4890s now, but thats a personal tradeoff. Another reason might be future ability to upgrade to a 5870 CF setup, or , excuse my ignorance on the subject but, running on a P55 motherboard may cut performance with the 4890s, having only 2 8x lanes for CF mode. (correct me if I'm wrong, does 8x vs. 16x matter yet?

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
$170 for a 4890. 2 of those would be $40 less then a 5870 and faster. If you already own a 4890, the price gap grows considerably, although it being faster doesn't change. On the nV side you end up paying a bit more if you don't already have a 275, but again, it is a faster solution. Yes, dealing with the issues of SLI/CF have an impact, for those that already have a single board getting superior performance for half the money or less may make them tollerate a few hiccups.

How about in a year down the road when you just paid $200 more on electric bill for owning 2 4890 over 5870.

Do you get dx11, eyefinity, angle dependent aniso, SSAA, better overcurrent protection, HD bitstreaming with that 4890?

Now who's selling?

I'm just saying. :laugh: Not everyone care for 10% better performance. Features count too.

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
It certainly does. It performs very well. Don't know why you interpret my posts in such ways.

Keys there are a lot of posts and threads here since I last came thru, too many to sift thru at the moment, but I wanted to ping you to see if you'd seen mention of or read this latest article by Goto-san regarding Cypress? (seems like this is the right thread to put this into anyways)

When I read it for some reason I couldn't help but to think of you:

? CPU processor dual-core approach similar to the two-fold

To achieve the performance of two times two times the size of the GPU. This time, GPU Ni?Tatte to double the size of the two, AMD is a CPU design that they take. It is a "dual core" of it. Responsible for the design of the bus said Fritz Kruger (Architect, AMD) is described as follows.

"From the perspective of system architecture, this Cypress is very similar to the RV770. The only difference is that the dual core. CPU and dual core is no longer so, How would that look somewhat similar. ( GPU internal bus) crossbar switch can not scale up much. So, CPU core has two separate two of the same reason, we divided into two cores and a single bus structure that is easily "

Cypress family of processors, the greater are actually divided into two groups. Each of two groups, such as Sureddoshikensa rasterizer and apparently has a processor control unit and perform the setup. In other words, RV770 processor group and the control part was in, each of two similar structures, such as Cypress has been contained within.

Analogy referring to the CPU, RV770 is a single core, Cypress's dual-core. Of course, CPU, dual core is completely different meaning and architecture. However, until now had control of the GPU processor all together, Cypress control of the processor in the sense that two separate groups of one degree, dual-core and close to the idea. In that sense, is Cypress's first dual-core GPU.

The advantage of this structure, GPU is one of the bottlenecks can be simpler than the one inside the bus configuration. As a result, GPU will be easier to design. Also, control processor, can be more simple.

To adopt a dual-core configuration

? SIMD two groups work seamlessly

AMD GPU, the processor is a SIMD (Single Instruction, Multiple Data) is a unit to perform the "SIMD cores (SIMD engine, also known as)" They are presented as. RV770 does this total was for 10 SIMD cores, Cypress has become pieces in 20. Cypress is a dual-core entities, RV770 equivalent to 1 as ten SIMD cores, 20 cores seems to be two things to manage the split core.

Cypress elements have shown that the structure of the dual-core, Cypress can be seen throughout the architecture. For example, Cypress offers the rasterizer to convert the polygon pixel is increased to two each. This is acceptable given per core and configuration of taking the rasterizer. In addition, the full set of threads allocated to each processor, and also to control Sureddoshikensa branching and thread switching are two pieces of the program. Cypress total of 20 SIMD cores, the 10 that are controlled Sureddoshikensa one by one. AMD officials have described as follows.

"Sureddoshikensa conducted by the branch control. RV770 in the 10's was one of SIMD. Cypress, the SIMD 10 and 20 of each group, each managed by Sureddoshikensa"

However, each was divided into two core Cypress (10 SIMD) is, CPU is much more tightly connected to the dual core.

"The software has two work seamlessly as a single core. For example, (thread) dispatch, and has been able to make load balancing across both cores. Therefore, here are the vertices of the polygon processing core, the core can dispatch and the other after processing pixel rasterization. in order to transfer data from one core from the core to the other, no need to write once memory.

The texture (data path) are (two cores) are shared. Texture is prevalent in two cores go. Texture (data path) are two core services across "(Kruger's)

In other words, the processor Sureddodisupatcha control group, seemed to be some control can be conducted across two cores. Therefore, the two can be considered to keep the load balancing operation processor cores busy.

Google Translated into English
Original in Japanese

I can't find Goto-san's source for his quote from Fritz Kruger, but at least you know you weren't entirely crazy after all. Or at least you aren't the only one who is crazy

Hey, i remember we had a similar conversation. (if Cypress was monolithic design or not)

Does this mean that the Cypress is not monolithic, or he is just referring to what other sites said already about how ATI divided the SIMD cores in two?

 

[coldpower27]

The price is reasonable for what you get...

You also have to keep in mind they are justified in having a premium in that it is:

DX11 Card.
Fastest Single GPU Card (No CF required)
Extremely good Perf/Watt.
Great Perf/Die Area (great for AMD/ATi)
Extremely good idle power consumption.
Better AF then Previous Gen

Yes, you can indeed get cheaper entry with Dual 4870/4890 or whatever. Assuming you have a board capable of CF, and assuming you have a capable power supply. It isn't as good a solution but it works.

The biggest limiting factor for me is that it is only 35-45% (on average) faster then my GTX 280. I just don't feel the need to make a upgrade for that minor a performance bump.

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: MODEL3

Does this mean that the Cypress is not monolithic, or he is just referring to what other sites said already about how ATI divided the SIMD cores in two?

It?s monolithic; even thought it?s split at the hardware level to some degree, it?s still a seamless single GPU from a software/programming point of view.

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Originally posted by: MODEL3

Does this mean that the Cypress is not monolithic, or he is just referring to what other sites said already about how ATI divided the SIMD cores in two?

It?s monolithic; even thought it?s split at the hardware level to some degree, it?s still a seamless single GPU from a software/programming point of view.

That's what i thought...

 

[imported_coconutboy]

Ever notice that every single time we get a new generation of video cards, no matter how good it is, people complain about it either not being good enough or else the price? Even more absurd is that in every survey and poll we see that the average PC gamer upgrades their video cards every ~2 years, yet time and again there are somehow people think that a new video card generation was somehow going to invalidate their 1 year old part and necessitate an upgrade. There's just no help for these people.

To top it all off, there's people who spend a ton of cash for either a high-end part from the previous generation or else a dual-card config and then those guys actually think that 6-12 months later some new part for the same price is somehow going to give them a doubling in fps. If it happens great, but that's usually only because they bought a pair of low end cards and something better trickled down to budget territory.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Azn
I don't understand how anyone can believe some off site with bad speculations and then feel like ATI didn't deliver. That's quite hilarious. ATI delivered and then some with their 5870. While Nvidia is scratching their heads like WTF!#(*

With 1600SP, 80TMU, 32ROP and 100mhz faster core clock with much lower bandwidth is not going to deliver GTX295 performance. Anyone who's got a head on their shoulders who's been following the GPU scene will tell you it won't.

Nvidia is not doing that because if you want the fastest single card, it's still not an ATI card. That's what my entire point is and what ppl seem to miss completely.

 

[nyker96]

took me an hour to finish anan's review, good. looks like this card is a hit but not as big a hit as hd 48xx series when that came out. still good feature set and decent performance boost from the dx10 parts.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: videogames101
1No good games for DX11 yet,
2not everyone uses more than 1 monitor,
3I can't even tell the difference between af modes,
4SSAA is marginally better then normal AA at more performance costs,
5don't run furmark or occt,
6no HTPC,
7since when do overclocking gamers care about electricity?


It does not make sense to buy a 5870 now. After GT300 comes out? Sure as hell you'll see price cuts, then, it will be time to pounce.

Also, not dealing with CF issues is a very valid reason for not going with 2 HD4890s now, but thats a personal tradeoff. Another reason might be future ability to upgrade to a 5870 CF setup, or , excuse my ignorance on the subject but, running on a P55 motherboard may cut performance with the 4890s, having only 2 8x lanes for CF mode. (correct me if I'm wrong, does 8x vs. 16x matter yet?

1. Dirt 2 is dx11 that comes with the card. I actually enjoyed dirt 1 but I understand where you are coming from.
2. True I only have 1 monitor but there are many guys with LCD prices have come down considerably where you can pick up multiple monitors rather cheap. If you want immersion eyefinity is there.
3. That's on you.
4. More eye candy is good enough reason considering 5870 performs sticking SSAA is a viable option
5. People do stress their cards for overclocking you know.
6. When you do get a HTPC aren't you glad you get more features to boot?
7. when it saves them money and make their room heat up like an oven

You are tuning reasons for yourself but the choice is obvious if you need a card now. 4870x2? CF 4890? GTX285? Why would you over 5870?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
$170 for a 4890. 2 of those would be $40 less then a 5870 and faster. If you already own a 4890, the price gap grows considerably, although it being faster doesn't change. On the nV side you end up paying a bit more if you don't already have a 275, but again, it is a faster solution. Yes, dealing with the issues of SLI/CF have an impact, for those that already have a single board getting superior performance for half the money or less may make them tollerate a few hiccups.

How about in a year down the road when you just paid $200 more on electric bill for owning 2 4890 over 5870.

Do you get dx11, eyefinity, angle dependent aniso, SSAA, better overcurrent protection, HD bitstreaming with that 4890?

Now who's selling?

I'm just saying. :laugh: Not everyone care for 10% better performance. Features count too.

Features that are used sure.
DX11? No games...
Bitstream HD Audio? If you HTPC this card is probably too big for your case...
better AF? Can you tell the diference in motion? I can't...

Performance is what matters to many, and a lot of people base purchases on benchmarks. Generally speaking, most would not know anything about AF/AA/DX11 etc. They want to know which card runs their games faster so they check benchmarks. That's life to the non-tech site reading public,

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Azn
I don't understand how anyone can believe some off site with bad speculations and then feel like ATI didn't deliver. That's quite hilarious. ATI delivered and then some with their 5870. While Nvidia is scratching their heads like WTF!#(*

With 1600SP, 80TMU, 32ROP and 100mhz faster core clock with much lower bandwidth is not going to deliver GTX295 performance. Anyone who's got a head on their shoulders who's been following the GPU scene will tell you it won't.

Nvidia is not doing that because if you want the fastest single card, it's still not an ATI card. That's what my entire point is and what ppl seem to miss completely.

Nvidia doing what? I don't understand what you are trying to say. ATI has the fastest single die card on the market without CF, SLI bs...

What is your point?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: coconutboy
Ever notice that every single time we get a new generation of video cards, no matter how good it is, people complain about it either not being good enough or else the price? Even more absurd is that in every survey and poll we see that the average PC gamer upgrades their video cards every ~2 years, yet time and again there are somehow people think that a new video card generation was somehow going to invalidate their 1 year old part and necessitate an upgrade. There's just no help for these people.

To top it all off, there's people who spend a ton of cash for either a high-end part from the previous generation or else a dual-card config and then those guys actually think that 6-12 months later some new part for the same price is somehow going to give them a doubling in fps. If it happens great, but that's usually only because they bought a pair of low end cards and something better trickled down to budget territory.

Where did you figure this? I guess being new, with only 13 posts to your name I can let it go.

Lets get things straight. People are disappointed because of the hype, AMD is at fault. Their own slides hyped it as being so much faster than Nvidia cards, and what do you know...it didn't measure up to the hype.

Nobody said they wanted a card to beat a 1year old card by 2x. If you rob a bank and can afford 6 monitors to use the eyefinity junk then fine. Otherwise the features aren't used today. So it's performance that is measured.

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
I think he meant performance per dollar guys. The 5870, as is apparent on MANY a forum after these reviews, has discredited itself by falling short of all the hype that flew around for the past months.

I dunno, it seems to perform well enough for the price to me. There are always going to be those people who expect 2x the performance for 1/2 the price. But I think most people had a bit more realistic price and performance expectations for the 5870.

It certainly does. It performs very well. Don't know why you interpret my posts in such ways.
I think you're waaaaaay wrong though about most people being realistic in it's performance for price though. Price/performance is like having a cake with no sugar in it. You still get your cake, but it's not sweet. I'm talking of course about those who wanted to ATI to be rid of the price/performance title and just have the all out performance title. Either way, ATI has the single core card crown for a bit. That will have to do.
People wanted this card to DOMINATE last gens single core champ. But it's at ~30% performance lead over a GTX285. "I" even expected more from the 5870. So I was let down to.
You're right though, the card performs well enough for the price, but two 4890's in CF would best it for less if you already have a CF mobo and a PSU that can handle it.

You're flat out of your mind or lying.

~30% is huge, it's domination from 1 gen to the next. 20% would've been fine and within the norm, completely acceptable to be the champ here. The thing not only beats the 285, it's real competition, but usually matches or beats the 295 (SLI on a stick).

"That will have to do." Are you serious? Have to do? The 5870 is beyond expectations. The audio output, the power efficiency, the performance, dx11, triple display on the first cards with eyefinity.. this is a complete package with no real archilles heel.

Never fear Keys Player. When your company has whatever they have ready, ATI will be waiting in the wings with tuned, high clocking (if necessary) X2 card to take your glory.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Azn
I don't understand how anyone can believe some off site with bad speculations and then feel like ATI didn't deliver. That's quite hilarious. ATI delivered and then some with their 5870. While Nvidia is scratching their heads like WTF!#(*

With 1600SP, 80TMU, 32ROP and 100mhz faster core clock with much lower bandwidth is not going to deliver GTX295 performance. Anyone who's got a head on their shoulders who's been following the GPU scene will tell you it won't.

Nvidia is not doing that because if you want the fastest single card, it's still not an ATI card. That's what my entire point is and what ppl seem to miss completely.

Nvidia doing what? I don't understand what you are trying to say. ATI has the fastest single die card on the market without CF, SLI bs...

What is your point?

Point is it's still slower than a GTX295 and that's my point. The fastest single card is NOT ATI. So why would Nvidia have to scratch their head? They still have the fastest Video Card in existance.

You know what this reminds me of? Remember when Nvidia was talking about CUDA and Physx and all the ATI fanboys called it crap and worthless because nothing used it? Now they want to turn around and shove DX11 and other features that hardly will be used for some time down our throat like it's ok...

Lets get one thing straight here, the only ones acting like fanboys are not on the Nvidia side of things.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
I think he meant performance per dollar guys. The 5870, as is apparent on MANY a forum after these reviews, has discredited itself by falling short of all the hype that flew around for the past months.

I dunno, it seems to perform well enough for the price to me. There are always going to be those people who expect 2x the performance for 1/2 the price. But I think most people had a bit more realistic price and performance expectations for the 5870.

It certainly does. It performs very well. Don't know why you interpret my posts in such ways.
I think you're waaaaaay wrong though about most people being realistic in it's performance for price though. Price/performance is like having a cake with no sugar in it. You still get your cake, but it's not sweet. I'm talking of course about those who wanted to ATI to be rid of the price/performance title and just have the all out performance title. Either way, ATI has the single core card crown for a bit. That will have to do.
People wanted this card to DOMINATE last gens single core champ. But it's at ~30% performance lead over a GTX285. "I" even expected more from the 5870. So I was let down to.
You're right though, the card performs well enough for the price, but two 4890's in CF would best it for less if you already have a CF mobo and a PSU that can handle it.

You're flat out of your mind or lying.

~30% is huge, it's domination from 1 gen to the next. 20% would've been fine and within the norm, completely acceptable to be the champ here. The thing not only beats the 285, it's real competition, but usually matches or beats the 295 (SLI on a stick).

"That will have to do." Are you serious? Have to do? The 5870 is beyond expectations. The audio output, the power efficiency, the performance, dx11, triple display on the first cards with eyefinity.. this is a complete package with no real archilles heel.

Never fear Keys Player. When your company has whatever they have ready, ATI will be waiting in the wings with tuned, high clocking (if necessary) X2 card to take your glory.

You're lucky we have forum rules...

Don't go calling ppl fanboys because Mr pot...meet the kettle

 

[SRoode]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Azn
I don't understand how anyone can believe some off site with bad speculations and then feel like ATI didn't deliver. That's quite hilarious. ATI delivered and then some with their 5870. While Nvidia is scratching their heads like WTF!#(*

With 1600SP, 80TMU, 32ROP and 100mhz faster core clock with much lower bandwidth is not going to deliver GTX295 performance. Anyone who's got a head on their shoulders who's been following the GPU scene will tell you it won't.

Nvidia is not doing that because if you want the fastest single card, it's still not an ATI card. That's what my entire point is and what ppl seem to miss completely.

Nvidia doing what? I don't understand what you are trying to say. ATI has the fastest single die card on the market without CF, SLI bs...

What is your point?

My interpretation is that the 5870 doesn't really outperform (on average) their own 4870x2, which costs about 20% less. There are some benchies where it does, some where it doesn't, but on average, they perform about the same. Single die doesn't really matter when you have to pay $319 for one card and $379 for another, and in the end the performance is about the same. It's not a "great" release for the price point. $299 would have been a different story.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
$170 for a 4890. 2 of those would be $40 less then a 5870 and faster. If you already own a 4890, the price gap grows considerably, although it being faster doesn't change. On the nV side you end up paying a bit more if you don't already have a 275, but again, it is a faster solution. Yes, dealing with the issues of SLI/CF have an impact, for those that already have a single board getting superior performance for half the money or less may make them tollerate a few hiccups.

How about in a year down the road when you just paid $200 more on electric bill for owning 2 4890 over 5870.

Do you get dx11, eyefinity, angle dependent aniso, SSAA, better overcurrent protection, HD bitstreaming with that 4890?

Now who's selling?

I'm just saying. :laugh: Not everyone care for 10% better performance. Features count too.

Features that are used sure.
DX11? No games...
Bitstream HD Audio? If you HTPC this card is probably too big for your case...
better AF? Can you tell the diference in motion? I can't...

Performance is what matters to many, and a lot of people base purchases on benchmarks. Generally speaking, most would not know anything about AF/AA/DX11 etc. They want to know which card runs their games faster so they check benchmarks. That's life to the non-tech site reading public,

Dirt 2 is not dx11?

You can use SSAA and angle dependent AF off the bat on majority of the games out there.

Speed only matters when you don't have enough. I already get over 60fps with 4xAA or more. I don't need a 130fps card over a card that gets 120fps with more features that can deliver better IQ. If performance matter to you so much why turn on AA or AF?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
$170 for a 4890. 2 of those would be $40 less then a 5870 and faster. If you already own a 4890, the price gap grows considerably, although it being faster doesn't change. On the nV side you end up paying a bit more if you don't already have a 275, but again, it is a faster solution. Yes, dealing with the issues of SLI/CF have an impact, for those that already have a single board getting superior performance for half the money or less may make them tollerate a few hiccups.

How about in a year down the road when you just paid $200 more on electric bill for owning 2 4890 over 5870.

Do you get dx11, eyefinity, angle dependent aniso, SSAA, better overcurrent protection, HD bitstreaming with that 4890?

Now who's selling?

I'm just saying. :laugh: Not everyone care for 10% better performance. Features count too.

Features that are used sure.
DX11? No games...
Bitstream HD Audio? If you HTPC this card is probably too big for your case...
better AF? Can you tell the diference in motion? I can't...

Performance is what matters to many, and a lot of people base purchases on benchmarks. Generally speaking, most would not know anything about AF/AA/DX11 etc. They want to know which card runs their games faster so they check benchmarks. That's life to the non-tech site reading public,

Dirt 2 is not dx11?

You can use SSAA and angle dependent AF off the bat on majority of the games out there.

Speed only matters when you don't have enough. I already get over 60fps with 4xAA or more. I don't need a 130fps card over a card that gets 120fps with more features that can deliver better IQ. If performance matter to you so much why turn on AA or AF?

1 game? Really...like was said before, can you actually tell the difference between AA and AF modes in motion? I doubt it. Zoomed in on a screenshot sure, but that's not real world.

My point remains, AMD hyped it too much. They fell short of the hype and they are at fault for it.

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
You're lucky we have forum rules...

Don't go calling ppl fanboys because Mr pot...meet the kettle

You don't know me. And you weren't being spoken to.

Though since you chimed in for Mr. Player, you should know that the 295, which does in cases get beaten by a mere single 5870.. is not a "single video card".

It's a dual PCB solution. SLI on a stick. It acts as SLI does.
The 5870 is a single PCB. It acts as any non-SLI/Crossfire card would.

The fact the 5870 is matching or beating the 295 is sadness for Nvidia at this point. That means without the G300, they have nothing.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Azn
I don't understand how anyone can believe some off site with bad speculations and then feel like ATI didn't deliver. That's quite hilarious. ATI delivered and then some with their 5870. While Nvidia is scratching their heads like WTF!#(*

With 1600SP, 80TMU, 32ROP and 100mhz faster core clock with much lower bandwidth is not going to deliver GTX295 performance. Anyone who's got a head on their shoulders who's been following the GPU scene will tell you it won't.

Nvidia is not doing that because if you want the fastest single card, it's still not an ATI card. That's what my entire point is and what ppl seem to miss completely.

Nvidia doing what? I don't understand what you are trying to say. ATI has the fastest single die card on the market without CF, SLI bs...

What is your point?

Point is it's still slower than a GTX295 and that's my point. The fastest single card is NOT ATI. So why would Nvidia have to scratch their head? They still have the fastest Video Card in existance.

You know what this reminds me of? Remember when Nvidia was talking about CUDA and Physx and all the ATI fanboys called it crap and worthless because nothing used it? Now they want to turn around and shove DX11 and other features that hardly will be used for some time down our throat like it's ok...

Lets get one thing straight here, the only ones acting like fanboys are not on the Nvidia side of things.

Then again I never said GTX295 wasn't the fastest single card. I don't understand why you even replied to my post when I clearly said it was fastest single die card and not the fastest video card that's been sandwiched together. I bet you were the one who were downplaying 4870x2 cards when it was the fastest video card in existence over GTX285. Stop making this into a ATI and Nvidia fanboy thread. I don't play that.

 

[imported_coconutboy]

Originally posted by: SRoode
My interpretation is that the 5870 doesn't really outperform (on average) their own 4870x2, which costs about 20% less... Single die doesn't really matter when you have to pay $319 for one card and $379 for another, and in the end the performance is about the same. It's not a "great" release for the price point. $299 would have been a different story.

That's silly to compare a 4870x2 vs a 5870. Go check Newegg, Mwave, and other retailers and see how many 4870x2s you can buy. Those cards will be gone soon and the people who already have them won't be upgrading this soon anyhow unless they're the fringe/niche vid card junkies that upgrade every 12 months or so. There's other considerations as well, but not being able to buy the part is reason enough. Not that we'll be able to buy the 5870 either thanks to the Dell deal, =p but at least that part will continue to be produced.

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Point is it's still slower than a GTX295 and that's my point. The fastest single card is NOT ATI. So why would Nvidia have to scratch their head? They still have the fastest Video Card in existance.

True Nvidia has the fastest part, but previously they had zero competition for that crown except from their own parts. Even worse for Nv, their weren't making much of a profit on darn near every other card except the 275 and 295 due to their huge die size. Now with the 5870 here, and quite competitive for $100 less, Nvidia will have to drop prices or even fewer people will buy those two products. Meanwhile, ATI gets to plunder the bulk of the market at every other price point and make significant profits off their sales while Nvidia is merely trying to move product

Nvidia will almost assuredly destroy ATI from a pure performance perspective when G300 releases, but by then ATI/Dell will have sold enough parts that ATI will be in a strong position to cut prices as needed and, again, compete at almost every price point and perhaps even for the crown with a 5870X2 part. Nvidia hasn't had a track record producing a new generation of parts at prices anywhere near as budget-friendly as the last two generations of ATI cards. That said, I do think I'll be buying either budget 4850s or maybe splurge for a 4850 and a GTX 275 for the 2 new computers we're building. I'd like to see Nvidia's response in January and how ATI does on drivers with some of the new upcoming games like Modern Warfare 2 and Dragon Age. Nothing else I'll be playing for the rest of this year needs better than a GTX 275.

You know what this reminds me of? Remember when Nvidia was talking about CUDA and Physx and all the ATI fanboys called it crap and worthless because nothing used it? Now they want to turn around and shove DX11 and other features that hardly will be used for some time down our throat like it's ok...

Lets get one thing straight here, the only ones acting like fanboys are not on the Nvidia side of things.

Considering you own a Nvidia setup and said "our" it sounds like you might be taking this personally. Screw that noise, I could care less about who makes my card. Just give me a good product at a good price. Nvidia 260 and 275 are currently still good for the money unless ATI drops the 4890/4870s's price and the 4850 and 5850 are very good deals IMO.