ATi 5850/5870 review thread

[ronnn]

When exactly did nvidia release second and win by 20/40%? You have been drinking green viral coolaid.


edit: replying to happy medium

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
You're lucky we have forum rules...

Don't go calling ppl fanboys because Mr pot...meet the kettle

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
You don't know me. And you weren't being spoken to.

Well, we know you now. And I believe you did speak to me without me speaking to you first. I think cmdrdredd reserves that same right.

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Though since you chimed in for Mr. Player, you should know that the 295, which does in cases get beaten by a mere single 5870.. is not a "single video card" It's a dual PCB solution. SLI on a stick. It acts as SLI does.
The 5870 is a single PCB. It acts as any non-SLI/Crossfire card would..

You do know about the single PCB GTX295's? First review was June12th. Read on up Sparky
In fact, every single model GTX295 on newegg right now, is single PCB.

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
The fact the 5870 is matching or beating the 295 is sadness for Nvidia at this point. That means without the G300, they have nothing.

The 5870 often loses to it's brethren 4870x2. How is that matching or beating a GTX295? Haven't you read the reviews?

Originally posted by: Azn[/
True. Even if Nvidia release GT300 next year then what? Will it be faster than 5870x2 cards? Will cmdrdredd downplay 5870x2 cards too because it's faster?

It either will or it wont. And cmdrdredd isn't downplaying anything. What's happening here is that you are "up-playing" it to the max. And if and when a 5870x2 beats whatever Nvidia's best offering is at that time, I have a feeling he will buy whichever he wants. It looks like he would go for the faster performer. But he uses PhysX. So depending on what OpenCL and Windows 7 brings.... I dunno.

Single PCB, dual die on single PCB.. doesn't matter it's still SLI. A fair comparison is Crossfire 5870s vs a 295. Either way it doesn't matter, the 5870 can match or surpass the 295 by itself! That's what's amazing here.

The liklihood of NV putting out a killer chip with G300 is unlikely. ATI has been refining an excellent chip which is now the 5870, NV is going to be starting a whole new one.

It's one of those times when recommending people "wait for G300" is a bad, uneducated guess.

Most people don't want a 3 year old video card, which basically describes the current Nvidia lineup being little more than pumped up 8800GTXs.

I've bought far more NV cards than ATI, and have been buying 3D gpus since 1997. Traditionally I've been diehard NV due to driver superiority (which no longer exists).. but those who have been reading ars technica and other sites for years know that ATI has almost always had the superior engineering and first-to-features crown. It matters.

Essentially, those who see Way It's Meant to Be Played screens buy Nvidia. Those in the know tend to buy ATI. It's always been that way. This coming from a person who formerly wouldn't touch ATI products due to their previous problems with drivers in years gone past.

Even if we were "over hyping" the 5800s now... what would be the motivation of any of you to care if we were? We're excited, it's genuine.

You just raining on the party... or you serving Nvidia here trying to dampen excitement? Serious question.

 

[happy medium]

The reviewers will have working cards in there hands by the end of the month and you will know:thumbsup:

to} ronnn

 

[GaiaHunter]

Just been reading the bjorn3d review http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1682.

This one puts the 5870 trading blows with the GTX 295. The battleforge (care they say the values of the 295 and the 5870 are switched) benchmark is quite interesting as they said they used the DX11 path for the 5870. If I recall correctly I seen on another review where they used DX10/10.1 the GTX295 smashing the 5870.

I'm still a bit baffled with the differences from review to review.

Edit: Actually both AT and techpowerup puts the GTX295 some 12-14 frames faster than the 5870 in battleforge, but bjorn3d claims that using the DX11 path for the 5870, the 5870 is 12 frames faster. Interesting.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: MODEL3

Originally posted by: coconutboy
Ever notice that every single time we get a new generation of video cards, no matter how good it is, people complain about it either not being good enough or else the price? Even more absurd is that in every survey and poll we see that the average PC gamer upgrades their video cards every ~2 years, yet time and again there are somehow people think that a new video card generation was somehow going to invalidate their 1 year old part and necessitate an upgrade. There's just no help for these people.

To top it all off, there's people who spend a ton of cash for either a high-end part from the previous generation or else a dual-card config and then those guys actually think that 6-12 months later some new part for the same price is somehow going to give them a doubling in fps. If it happens great, but that's usually only because they bought a pair of low end cards and something better trickled down to budget territory.

Welcome to the forums coconutboy.
I have a slightly different view regarding launch expectations and upgrades.

If the execution is good usually the performance per price range in the Enthusiast or performance category for example, is doubling per 1,5 year. (comparing launches)

Q2 2005 7800GTX DX9.1 $599 vs Q4 2006 8800GTX DX10 $599 (same price, much higher than 2X perf)
or
Q3 2006 X1950XTX DX9.1 $399 vs Q2 2008 HD4870 DX10 $299
(-100$, higher than 2X perf)

Now we have:

Q2 2008 HD4870 DX10 299$ vs Q4 2009 HD5870 DX11 $379 (+80$, lower than 2X perf.)

Is the price competitive with NV offerings?
Of cource. (especially the 5850 at $259 is sweet (without even DX11 NV competition)

Is the 5870 price good based on what someone would expect if he had in mind the above transitions?(7800-8800 & 1950-4870)
No.

Is it logical to demand lower price based on the current market situation?
No

Is it logical to like better the price/performance levels in the past transitions (like in the example i gave)
Yes.

Of cource ATI wanted in the 4800 transition to regain market share, so it was an experiment in that direction (that's why -100$ and higher than 2X perf), but there are many transitions that the performance improvement is 2X in the same price level.
This one isn't.

that argument would be great, but, um, well you skipped a few things. like 7900gtx. and 2900xt. and 3870.

so if you fix it, you went from 7800gtx to 7900gtx to 8800gtx. 2 steps, greater than 2x the performance increase. how many months were there between the launch of 7800gtx and the launch of 8800gtx? july 2005 to nov 2007, so, um, 28 months.

you went from x1950xtx to 2900xt to 3870 to 4870. 3 steps, greater than 2x the performance increase. how many months between x1950xtx and 4870? sept 2006 to june 2008, so, um, 21 months.

you went from 4870 to 5870 in 15 months, but only took one generational step. the improvements shown with 5870 are quite good, but it was not coming 28 months after a shitty card like 7800gtx, it was coming 15 months after a very good 4870 AND it is not a new arch as 8800gtx and 4870 were.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
You do know about the single PCB GTX295's? First review was June12th. Read on up Sparky
In fact, every single model GTX295 on newegg right now, is single PCB.

It's still SLI on a stick keys...you picked out one sentence (the one that mattered the least) from that paragraph you quoted and refuted that....so what if it's single-PCB?? Still has the same issues that SLI/XFire has (and I think even you've found some issues in your own testing).

So? I picked out a sentence that was incorrect!. Not the one that mattered the least, to you.
SLI on a stick or whatever you wish to call it, is still, as we sit and breathe, the fastest single graphics card. And I am far more surprised than you can imagine that this is the case, Thilan.

I had a problem with Mirrors Edge and the 295 when paired with a Nvidia GPU dedicated for PhysX. It's all there in my PhysX thread. Mirrors Edge did not have a problem with the 295 alone.

 

[imported_coconutboy]

Originally posted by: happy medium
Have we not seen this situation before?
This is how it's going to work out by the holidays.

Almost all the rumors I've seen from the various hardware sites put the G300 launch in 2010 invalidating everything you've said. It would also be unprecedented for Nvidia to have kept as silent as they were during a new ATI launch if Nvidia was also soon to be releasing their own new products.


OT- There's two things I'm really curious to see in addition to Nvidia's response to ATI.

1- I'd LOVE to see just how beastly a 5850x2 is going to be, assuming someone makes 'em (please let it be more than just one manufacturer sheesh).

2- If it works as advertised, Lucid Hydra combined with a 5850 and a GTX 260/275 etc would make for some VERY interesting reading. Does PhysX work properly? How about AA? What happens when you play a Direct X 11 game? How about GPU computing? I really hope this thing delivers because if so, it will give us users the opportunity for some crazy configs (and the associated testing/benching/testing).

 

[imported_coconutboy]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
that argument would be great, but, um, well you skipped a few things. like 7900gtx. and 2900xt. and 3870.

so if you fix it, you went from 7800gtx to 7900gtx to 8800gtx. 2 steps, greater than 2x the performance increase. how many months were there between the launch of 7800gtx and the launch of 8800gtx? july 2005 to nov 2007, so, um, 28 months.

you went from x1950xtx to 2900xt to 3870 to 4870. 3 steps, greater than 2x the performance increase. how many months between x1950xtx and 4870? sept 2006 to june 2008, so, um, 21 months.

you went from 4870 to 5870 in 15 months, but only took one generational step. the improvements shown with 5870 are quite good, but it was not coming 28 months after a shitty card like 7800gtx, it was coming 15 months after a very good 4870 AND it is not a new arch as 8800gtx and 4870 were.

I didn't even notice this, nice attention to detail. You wiki for that or are you able to recall most of that from memory? If the latter, then dude... how many vid cards do you own?!? j/k

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
You're lucky we have forum rules...

Don't go calling ppl fanboys because Mr pot...meet the kettle

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
You don't know me. And you weren't being spoken to.

Well, we know you now. And I believe you did speak to me without me speaking to you first. I think cmdrdredd reserves that same right.

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Though since you chimed in for Mr. Player, you should know that the 295, which does in cases get beaten by a mere single 5870.. is not a "single video card" It's a dual PCB solution. SLI on a stick. It acts as SLI does.
The 5870 is a single PCB. It acts as any non-SLI/Crossfire card would..

You do know about the single PCB GTX295's? First review was June12th. Read on up Sparky
In fact, every single model GTX295 on newegg right now, is single PCB.

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
The fact the 5870 is matching or beating the 295 is sadness for Nvidia at this point. That means without the G300, they have nothing.

The 5870 often loses to it's brethren 4870x2. How is that matching or beating a GTX295? Haven't you read the reviews?

Originally posted by: Azn[/
True. Even if Nvidia release GT300 next year then what? Will it be faster than 5870x2 cards? Will cmdrdredd downplay 5870x2 cards too because it's faster?

It either will or it wont. And cmdrdredd isn't downplaying anything. What's happening here is that you are "up-playing" it to the max. And if and when a 5870x2 beats whatever Nvidia's best offering is at that time, I have a feeling he will buy whichever he wants. It looks like he would go for the faster performer. But he uses PhysX. So depending on what OpenCL and Windows 7 brings.... I dunno.

Single PCB, dual die on single PCB.. doesn't matter it's still SLI. A fair comparison is Crossfire 5870s vs a 295. Either way it doesn't matter, the 5870 can match or surpass the 295 by itself! That's what's amazing here.

The liklihood of NV putting out a killer chip with G300 is unlikely. ATI has been refining an excellent chip which is now the 5870, NV is going to be starting a whole new one.

It's one of those times when recommending people "wait for G300" is a bad, uneducated guess.

Most people don't want a 3 year old video card, which basically describes the current Nvidia lineup being little more than pumped up 8800GTXs.

I've bought far more NV cards than ATI, and have been buying 3D gpus since 1997. Traditionally I've been diehard NV due to driver superiority (which no longer exists).. but those who have been reading ars technica and other sites for years know that ATI has almost always had the superior engineering and first-to-features crown. It matters.

Essentially, those who see Way It's Meant to Be Played screens buy Nvidia. Those in the know tend to buy ATI. It's always been that way. This coming from a person who formerly wouldn't touch ATI products due to their previous problems with drivers in years gone past.

Even if we were "over hyping" the 5800s now... what would be the motivation of any of you to care if we were? We're excited, it's genuine.

You just raining on the party... or you serving Nvidia here trying to dampen excitement? Serious question.

Ok.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: coconutboy

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
that argument would be great, but, um, well you skipped a few things. like 7900gtx. and 2900xt. and 3870.

so if you fix it, you went from 7800gtx to 7900gtx to 8800gtx. 2 steps, greater than 2x the performance increase. how many months were there between the launch of 7800gtx and the launch of 8800gtx? july 2005 to nov 2007, so, um, 28 months.

you went from x1950xtx to 2900xt to 3870 to 4870. 3 steps, greater than 2x the performance increase. how many months between x1950xtx and 4870? sept 2006 to june 2008, so, um, 21 months.

you went from 4870 to 5870 in 15 months, but only took one generational step. the improvements shown with 5870 are quite good, but it was not coming 28 months after a shitty card like 7800gtx, it was coming 15 months after a very good 4870 AND it is not a new arch as 8800gtx and 4870 were.

I didn't even notice this, nice attention to detail. You wiki for that or are you able to recall most of that from memory? If the latter, then dude... how many vid cards do you own?!? j/k

let's see, I went from 6600gt to 7600gt to x1950xt to 3870 to 4850 to gtx 260 core 216. I had to look up 7800gtx and x1950xtx, the rest I knew from memory. And I googled, not wiki'd


whoops, just remembered that 8800gtx was nov 06 not 07, so that gap was just 16 months. it was still 2 gens, however, and 8800gtx was a brand new arch that absolutely knocked the cover off the ball.

 

[happy medium]

In all seriousness, what benifits does purchasing a 5870/gt300 have right now? Stalker Clear Sky and Crysis Warhead on a 30 inch monitor 2500x1600 with max settings? Other then that I can't think of one that would make me to buy one.

I guess it you have loads of money and want 100fps instead of 80?

I just don't get it.

I can see around a month from now when windows 7 is released, but will there be any direct x 11 games out by oct 18?

Edit: what i'm saying is this just a case of "my cards faster then yours"?
E-peen thing?

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: happy medium
In all seriousness, what benifits does purchasing a 5870/gt300 have right now? Stalker Clear Sky and Crysis Warhead on a 30 inch monitor 2500x1600 with max settings? Other then that I can't think of one that would make me to buy one.

I guess it you have loads of money and want 100fps instead of 80?

I just don't get it.

I can see around a month from now when windows 7 is released, but will there be any direct x 11 games out by oct 18?

Edit: what i'm saying is this just a case of "my cards faster then yours"?
E-peen thing?

For AMD/ATI is quite simple - they have the product ready, early to the field early sales.

For the consumers, if you are an enthusiast (and this is an enthusiast forums) = "new toys to play". For others that have a card from a generation before the 4xxx/GT2xx it is a better upgrade - a 5870 might be "only" 30% (depending on the reviewers and the games) faster thana GTX 285, but it is much much faster than a 8800GTX and anything slower than that is just a huge jump.

Imagine going from, for example, an ATI 2900XT to a card that at worse is 30% faster than a GTX285 and at best as fast as a 295?

If you have a card from the previous generation and aren't an enthusiast, well, you don't really have to upgrade. I'm sure many ppl with 8800GT didn't upgrade to 4xxx/GTX2xx.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: happy medium
In all seriousness, what benifits does purchasing a 5870/gt300 have right now? Stalker Clear Sky and Crysis Warhead on a 30 inch monitor 2500x1600 with max settings? Other then that I can't think of one that would make me to buy one.

I guess it you have loads of money and want 100fps instead of 80?

I just don't get it.

I can see around a month from now when windows 7 is released, but will there be any direct x 11 games out by oct 18?

Edit: what i'm saying is this just a case of "my cards faster then yours"?
E-peen thing?

For AMD/ATI is quite simple - they have the product ready, early to the field early sales.

For the consumers, if you are an enthusiast (and this is an enthusiast forums) = "new toys to play". For others that have a card from a generation before the 4xxx/GT2xx it is a better upgrade - a 5870 might be "only" 30% (depending on the reviewers and the games) faster thana GTX 285, but it is much much faster than a 8800GTX and anything slower than that is just a huge jump.

Imagine going from, for example, an ATI 2900XT to a card that at worse is 30% faster than a GTX285 and at best as fast as a 295?

If you have a card from the previous generation and aren't an enthusiast, well, you don't really have to upgrade. I'm sure many ppl with 8800GT didn't upgrade to 4xxx/GTX2xx.

Well I guess what I'm trying to say is ,we needed a gtx 280 /4870 right?
I can't quite remember but I think there was games out that the 8800/3870 were struggling with.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
So? I picked out a sentence that was incorrect!. Not the one that mattered the least, to you.
SLI on a stick or whatever you wish to call it, is still, as we sit and breathe, the fastest single graphics card. And I am far more surprised than you can imagine that this is the case, Thilan.

What you picked out IS the least important sentence in what you quoted...whether it's multi-PCB or single-PCB doesn't make much of a difference to most people I'd wager. Whereas the SLI bit IS what would matter to most people (since THAT is where any issues would crop up rather), hence making it more important. For the most part it is the fastest card and I'm not arguing that...to me it just looked like you ignored the more important bit in what you quoted...that is all. Anyway, I won't bang on about that anymore.

I had a problem with Mirrors Edge and the 295 when paired with a Nvidia GPU dedicated for PhysX. It's all there in my PhysX thread. Mirrors Edge did not have a problem with the 295 alone.

Didn't Arkham Asylum also have an issue? Here's some quirks (with SLI and dedicated Physx card) and workarounds pointed out:
http://forums.slizone.com/index.php?showtopic=39205
There's actually a lot of good info on SLI in that thread.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Yes whenever nvida actually releases something, prices will get better. By than there should be dx11 games and we can get meaningful benches. Right now all nvidia has to compete is fud, which as said won't help their bottom line.

You are absolutely right. I'm not going to turn this thread into a GT300 speculation thread though, as 5XXX deserves a review thread without that kind of thing.

I would enjoy a more detailed GT300 or "G300" thread in this sub-forum though, as there are plenty of juicy rumours to discuss....just not here.

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
that argument would be great, but, um, well you skipped a few things. like 7900gtx. and 2900xt. and 3870.

Bryan, what part of the below, did you not understood?

Originally posted by: MODEL3
If the execution is good,
usually the performance per price range,
in the Enthusiast or performance category for example,
is doubling per 1,5 year.
(comparing launches)

Which means 2X per 1,5year,
or
1,4X per 3 quarters,
or
1,25X per 2 quarters
or
1,12X per quarter

all the above in the same price.

I am talking of cource single GPU video cards like the 5870.

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
so if you fix it, you went from 7800gtx to 7900gtx to 8800gtx. 2 steps, greater than 2x the performance increase. how many months were there between the launch of 7800gtx and the launch of 8800gtx? july 2005 to nov 2007, so, um, 28 months.

I wrote 8800GTX at $600 which was the Q4 2006 8800GTX 768MB.
THe Q4 2007 was a 8800GTS at $299-$349.

So let's see your logic:

Q2 2005 430MHz 7800GTX 256MB at $599
Q1 2006 650MHz 7900GTX 512MB at $499
Q4 2006 575MHz 8800GTX 768MB at $599
Q4 2007 650MHz 8800GTS 512MB at $299-349$.

Do the calculations per price range yourself. (i'm too tired...)

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
you went from x1950xtx to 2900xt to 3870 to 4870. 3 steps, greater than 2x the performance increase. how many months between x1950xtx and 4870? sept 2006 to june 2008, so, um, 21 months.

Yes it's 21 months instead of 18 months,
that's why i clarified that the 4870 was -100$
(3/4 of the price level of X1950XTX...) (X1950XTX $399 vs HD4870 $299)

Q3 2006 X1950XTX $399
Q1 2007 HD2900XT $399 (which was a massive failure)
Q4 2007 HD3870 $229
Q2 2008 HD4870 $299

Again, do the calculations per price range yourself.

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
you went from 4870 to 5870 in 15 months, but only took one generational step. the improvements shown with 5870 are quite good

Yes, it is 15 months,
that's why i clarified that the 5870 is +80$
(+27% of the price level of 4870...) (HD4870 $299 vs HD5870 $379)
and the average performance is less than 2X.

So per price level, we have 2X performance or more per 1,5 year (even when we change DX version)
and in this transition we have +27% higher price and 1,7X perf. (1920X1200 4X AA 16X AF)

Like i said the logical thing is not, someone to demand lower price for 5870 in the current market situation (and also that the 5850 price is sweet).

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: happy medium
In all seriousness, what benifits does purchasing a 5870/gt300 have right now? Stalker Clear Sky and Crysis Warhead on a 30 inch monitor 2500x1600 with max settings? Other then that I can't think of one that would make me to buy one.

I guess it you have loads of money and want 100fps instead of 80?

I just don't get it.

I can see around a month from now when windows 7 is released, but will there be any direct x 11 games out by oct 18?

Edit: what i'm saying is this just a case of "my cards faster then yours"?
E-peen thing?

Bam. You nailed it right there for me. Clear Sky struggles at 2560x1600 with the gorgeous DX10.1 lighting and Crysis is not playable at max res. Those are the main games I have been playing lately so the extra horsepower is much needed.

I must say I should have waited though until reviews came out before selling my 4890s as they look to be faster than the 5870. Guess I'll have to wait for X-Fire 5850 reviews to come out.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: happy medium
In all seriousness, what benifits does purchasing a 5870/gt300 have right now? Stalker Clear Sky and Crysis Warhead on a 30 inch monitor 2500x1600 with max settings? Other then that I can't think of one that would make me to buy one.

I guess it you have loads of money and want 100fps instead of 80?

I just don't get it.

I can see around a month from now when windows 7 is released, but will there be any direct x 11 games out by oct 18?

Edit: what i'm saying is this just a case of "my cards faster then yours"?
E-peen thing?

Bam. You nailed it right there for me. Clear Sky struggles at 2560x1600 with the gorgeous DX10.1 lighting and Crysis is not playable at max res. Those are the main games I have been playing lately so the extra horsepower is much needed.

I must say I should have waited though until reviews came out before selling my 4890s as they look to be faster than the 5870. Guess I'll have to wait for X-Fire 5850 reviews to come out.

Ok, so can a gtx285/4890 play all games at high detail @ 1920x1080?
If yes, they why not wait for the gt300 before making a 380$ videocard purchase?
Even if you only have a 8800/4850 series, prices will be better for the new cards when theres more competition right?

I guess for the very few people who game at 2500x1600 it's plausable.

Personally I game on my 32 inch Tv 1080p with a overclocked 8800gt.
I just played the new Need for speed Shift, Left 4 Dead, Grid, and Call of duty WAW . Smooth as butter and looked great. I play Crysis on my 19 inch CRT.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: happy medium
In all seriousness, what benifits does purchasing a 5870/gt300 have right now? Stalker Clear Sky and Crysis Warhead on a 30 inch monitor 2500x1600 with max settings? Other then that I can't think of one that would make me to buy one.

I guess it you have loads of money and want 100fps instead of 80?

I just don't get it.

I can see around a month from now when windows 7 is released, but will there be any direct x 11 games out by oct 18?

Edit: what i'm saying is this just a case of "my cards faster then yours"?
E-peen thing?

For AMD/ATI is quite simple - they have the product ready, early to the field early sales.

For the consumers, if you are an enthusiast (and this is an enthusiast forums) = "new toys to play". For others that have a card from a generation before the 4xxx/GT2xx it is a better upgrade - a 5870 might be "only" 30% (depending on the reviewers and the games) faster thana GTX 285, but it is much much faster than a 8800GTX and anything slower than that is just a huge jump.

Imagine going from, for example, an ATI 2900XT to a card that at worse is 30% faster than a GTX285 and at best as fast as a 295?

If you have a card from the previous generation and aren't an enthusiast, well, you don't really have to upgrade. I'm sure many ppl with 8800GT didn't upgrade to 4xxx/GTX2xx.

Well I guess what I'm trying to say is ,we needed a gtx 280 /4870 right?
I can't quite remember but I think there was games out that the 8800/3870 were struggling with.

Game devs won't release games for non-existing hardware - well maybe if you are called Crytek.

We've already seen cards being faster using dx10.1 over dx10.

Look at bjorn3d review of the 5870. In battleforge they use dx11 path for the 5870 and the 5870 ends up being 37% faster than the GTX295 - and the frame rate isn't some 100 FPS. It
is 20-45 at 1920x1200.

Originally posted by: happy medium
Ok, so can a gtx285/4890 play all games at high detail @ 1920x1080?
If yes, they why not wait for the gt300 before making a 380$ videocard purchase?
Even if you only have a 8800/4850 series, prices will be better for the new cards when theres more competition right?

I guess for the very few people who game at 2500x1600 it's plausable.

Personally I game on my 32 inch Tv 1080p with a overclocked 8800gt.
I just played the new Need for speed Shift, Left 4 Dead, Grid, and Call of duty WAW . Smooth as butter and looked great. I play Crysis on my 19 inch CRT.

But you can say the same about any card.

And what about people putting up new builds? Or people with worse cards than the 4850/8800?

And about the people that want to buy a card 2 months ago and people told them "hey wait 2 months for the 5870/5850 and then make your decision before buying that $400+ 295"?

At some point people will buy.

A week ago their choices were less than today.

I don't see how the 5870 being about is bad for the people that were already thinking of buying.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: happy medium
In all seriousness, what benifits does purchasing a 5870/gt300 have right now? Stalker Clear Sky and Crysis Warhead on a 30 inch monitor 2500x1600 with max settings? Other then that I can't think of one that would make me to buy one.

I guess it you have loads of money and want 100fps instead of 80?

I just don't get it.

I can see around a month from now when windows 7 is released, but will there be any direct x 11 games out by oct 18?

Edit: what i'm saying is this just a case of "my cards faster then yours"?
E-peen thing?

For AMD/ATI is quite simple - they have the product ready, early to the field early sales.

For the consumers, if you are an enthusiast (and this is an enthusiast forums) = "new toys to play". For others that have a card from a generation before the 4xxx/GT2xx it is a better upgrade - a 5870 might be "only" 30% (depending on the reviewers and the games) faster thana GTX 285, but it is much much faster than a 8800GTX and anything slower than that is just a huge jump.

Imagine going from, for example, an ATI 2900XT to a card that at worse is 30% faster than a GTX285 and at best as fast as a 295?

If you have a card from the previous generation and aren't an enthusiast, well, you don't really have to upgrade. I'm sure many ppl with 8800GT didn't upgrade to 4xxx/GTX2xx.

Well I guess what I'm trying to say is ,we needed a gtx 280 /4870 right?
I can't quite remember but I think there was games out that the 8800/3870 were struggling with.

Game devs won't release games for non-existing hardware - well maybe if you are called Crytek.

We've already seen cards being faster using dx10.1 over dx10.

Look at bjorn3d review of the 5870. In battleforge they use dx11 path for the 5870 and the 5870 ends up being 37% faster than the GTX295 - and the frame rate isn't some 100 FPS. It is 20-45 at 1920x1200.

Oh I didn't know there was already directx 11 games out.?
Or does direct x path mean a modded version?

Is Grid 2 gonna be a real direct x 11 game?, or is it gonna use some features of it? What good A grade titles that are directx 11 titles, that are comming out in the next say 3 months?

Edit : that Bjorn review was immpressive .(battleforge)

 

[Elias824]

Well dont forget guys we still have a 2gb 5870, as well as the 5870x2, not to mention new drives. things may change very quickly. Oh and maybe a 5890 at some point to. the GT300 will have more to compete with then just the 5870 by the time it launches. Im curious how the x2 will end up, it very likely will take back the crown for at least a little while.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: happy medium
In all seriousness, what benifits does purchasing a 5870/gt300 have right now? Stalker Clear Sky and Crysis Warhead on a 30 inch monitor 2500x1600 with max settings? Other then that I can't think of one that would make me to buy one.

I guess it you have loads of money and want 100fps instead of 80?

I just don't get it.

I can see around a month from now when windows 7 is released, but will there be any direct x 11 games out by oct 18?

Edit: what i'm saying is this just a case of "my cards faster then yours"?
E-peen thing?

For AMD/ATI is quite simple - they have the product ready, early to the field early sales.

For the consumers, if you are an enthusiast (and this is an enthusiast forums) = "new toys to play". For others that have a card from a generation before the 4xxx/GT2xx it is a better upgrade - a 5870 might be "only" 30% (depending on the reviewers and the games) faster thana GTX 285, but it is much much faster than a 8800GTX and anything slower than that is just a huge jump.

Imagine going from, for example, an ATI 2900XT to a card that at worse is 30% faster than a GTX285 and at best as fast as a 295?

If you have a card from the previous generation and aren't an enthusiast, well, you don't really have to upgrade. I'm sure many ppl with 8800GT didn't upgrade to 4xxx/GTX2xx.

Well I guess what I'm trying to say is ,we needed a gtx 280 /4870 right?
I can't quite remember but I think there was games out that the 8800/3870 were struggling with.

Game devs won't release games for non-existing hardware - well maybe if you are called Crytek.

We've already seen cards being faster using dx10.1 over dx10.

Look at bjorn3d review of the 5870. In battleforge they use dx11 path for the 5870 and the 5870 ends up being 37% faster than the GTX295 - and the frame rate isn't some 100 FPS. It
is 20-45 at 1920x1200.

Originally posted by: happy medium
Ok, so can a gtx285/4890 play all games at high detail @ 1920x1080?
If yes, they why not wait for the gt300 before making a 380$ videocard purchase?
Even if you only have a 8800/4850 series, prices will be better for the new cards when theres more competition right?

I guess for the very few people who game at 2500x1600 it's plausable.

Personally I game on my 32 inch Tv 1080p with a overclocked 8800gt.
I just played the new Need for speed Shift, Left 4 Dead, Grid, and Call of duty WAW . Smooth as butter and looked great. I play Crysis on my 19 inch CRT.

But you can say the same about any card.

And what about people putting up new builds? Or people with worse cards than the 4850/8800?

And about the people that want to buy a card 2 months ago and people told them "hey wait 2 months for the 5870/5850 and then make your decision before buying that $400+ 295"?

At some point people will buy.

A week ago their choices were less than today.

I don't see how the 5870 being about is bad for the people that were already thinking of buying.

Personally my next upgrade will be a hd5770 or Nvidia equivelent. Supposed power is in between a gtx 260 and a 4890 for 179$ and all the new features and directx 11 with only one pci-e power thingy.:thumbsup:

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: happy medium
Oh I didn't know there was already directx 11 games out.?
Or does direct x path mean a modded version?

Is Grid 2 gonna be a real direct x 11 game?, or is it gonna use some features of it? What good A grade titles that are directx 11 titles, that are comming out in the next say 3 months?

Edit : that Bjorn review was immpressive .(battleforge)

About games:

http://www.pcgameshardware.com...lien-vs-Predator/News/

and the discussion of it on these forums - http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2333997&enterthread=y

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Elias824
Well dont forget guys we still have a 2gb 5870, as well as the 5870x2, not to mention new drives. things may change very quickly. Oh and maybe a 5890 at some point to. the GT300 will have more to compete with then just the 5870 by the time it launches. Im curious how the x2 will end up, it very likely will take back the crown for at least a little while.

Nobody forgot those things. The X2 card is easy to predict because you just take two 5870s in Xfire. The 5890 is easy to predict because you just OC the 5870 to 1ghz+ core and higher memory.

The only variables at this point are what the competition brings, and if drivers mature.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: Tempered81
The thing that pisses me off is they're holding the 5870x2 as the ace in the hole to combat the gtx380. They could just release the damn thing now - I'm sure plenty of people are waiting to buy it. Never understood that strategy.... Gosh.

How much would they charge for it though if the HD 5870 is 379 US? HD5870 would be what 699US-749US?

That would be stratospheric. They already don't have enough supply to meet the 379US on the 5870 part, maybe a little later when parts come down in price officially.