ATi 5850/5870 review thread

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Good work at avoiding all my points Keys. I know I'm right, and you do too. You would be agreeing if Nvidia was in ATI's spot right now.
You "prefer" Nvidia products? Because of a logo? I wonder what causes this preference... no one should listen to a word coming out of your mouth. I just want to expose your sad attempt at sophism, that's all. Comparing SLI and Crossfire to a single card and attempting to use that as a way to downplay it is utter crap.
The 5870 smokes the 285, so you have no leg to stand on.. so I understand if you have a vested interest in Nvidia, why you'd resort to pretending the 295 being SLI doesn't matter. Crossfire has similar limitations to SLI, so Crossfire 5870s would be a fair comparison, and blows your product out of the water.
It's not even right and you actually have a few people buying into this propaganda. I've responded to your points regarding the cards. You ignored that part, and still didn't answer why you are here if you don't like ATI products, simply because they don't pay you. No one has a beef with your opinion, it's how pervasive you are at trying to spread "your" opinion. I have no affiliation with either NV or ATI, and hold no stock in either company or any related companies. Someone in this forum who is a normal consumer not motivated by personal profit needs to counter the propaganda. I know it can be annoying to other members, but if you are allowed to post your propaganda freely, people need to have the right to counter it. I apologize to the members who recognize Keys for what he is (a marketer) and don't need anyone to fight him off, but many people are checking out the forums for info on these cards and he needs to be countered.

Just to put an end to your fake stance about multi-gpu's not being comparable to single GPU cards, looks like you felt a bit differently in this thread last year:

Excited for the 4870X2 card

"It's simply stunning how ATI managed to completely destroy all interest I had in Nvidia's product lineup with the 4800 series overnight. All their stuff up to the GTX280 just looks like yesterdays garbage compared to the fast, affordable DX10.1 lineup that ATI has now.
I'm glad now that I have my X38 rig for Crossfire.
Nvidia... too little too late for too much money, back to the drawing board (or marketing) for you!"

Looks like you're doing a fair bit of marketing yourself.

Any particular reason you felt that the 4870X2 was the GTX280 destroyer then, but discount the faster GTX295 now? Being totally against a GTX295/5870 comparison today? Explain this one away.

Not that I really care, but I just thought people should know in light of your sudden distaste for multi-gpu vs. single gpu comparisons.

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
/snip

You just don't get it

 

[dreddfunk]

Discussing a product's competitors in a launch thread makes sense. What doesn't make sense is beating a dead horse for nearly 30 pages.

The reviews exist, and they include numbers from competing cards for comparison. The comparisons that go on here are largely invidious in nature, not clarifying.

If our only intent in posting was to foster understanding of the relative performance merits of a card versus its competitors, then we'd merely point everyone who asks back to the first post, and tell them to read the reviews for themselves.

What's going on here is largely an attempt to hype or diminish the importance of the product launch, and it happens in all product launch threads, red and green.

 

[Forumpanda]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
*stuff*

The problem is that 'false but plausible' information is so easy to spread around abundantly.
Its not quite fake enough to ignore and its not quite inaccurate enough for everyone to realize it.
Arguing against would work, except for the fact that the arguments are usually ignored and the same information is spread around ad nauseum in a high number of threads.

Regardless of what you say, multiple people on this forum feel that the behavior is at best showing poor manners and is rather disruptive.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Forumpanda

Originally posted by: Idontcare
*stuff*

The problem is that 'false but plausible' information is so easy to spread around abundantly.
Its not quite fake enough to ignore and its not quite inaccurate enough for everyone to realize it.
Arguing against would work, except for the fact that the arguments are usually ignored and the same information is spread around ad nauseum in a high number of threads.

Regardless if what you say, multiple people on this forum feel that the behavior is at best showing poor manners and is rather disruptive.

Who is showing poor behavior and manners? If you are referring to me, then I think you should point out where my manners fall short. I've attacked no one. I've been attacked by many. Where's the manners?

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: Tempered81

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Tempered81
That is CF 5870s you realize...

No take a look at the single 5870 vs the 4890...

Yeah, I just did and didn't see where it was twice as fast?

Well here is an example where 5870 is unstoppable.

Company of Heroes 2560x1600 DX10 (Max Quality) 8xAA/16xAF:
295 - 19%
285 - 83%
4870x2 - 50%
4890 - 260%

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=858&p=3

We'll see improvement with drivers, I am sure about that.
You need a very fast CPU as well.

 

[dreddfunk]

There is discourteous in delivery, and then there is discourteous in content.

Discourteous in content is someone discussing the deceased's bad habits at the funeral. It is still discourteous and in poor taste no matter the manner in which the comments are delivered.

Discourteous delivery is rampant, and also a problem.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Hay guys . My thoughts.

1 Lay off Keys he good person. You know his view . So live with it .

2 Keys helps you . If your ATI fanboy , Prove him wrong don't wine.

3) Keys helps you alot believe it or not .

If you research he adds to those skills by giving you motivation, Your reading and comprehension skills improve also .,

Some are wrong here , Keys is open and thats cool! Learn how to deal with him , In the end we all win.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: dreddfunk
There is discourteous in delivery, and then there is discourteous in content.

Discourteous in content is someone discussing the deceased's bad habits at the funeral. It is still discourteous and in poor taste no matter the manner in which the comments are delivered.

Discourteous delivery is rampant, and also a problem.

That's fine. Example? Really wish to see what you're getting at and towards whom.

 

[Forumpanda]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
1 Lay off Keys he good person. You know his view . So live with it

As I said I am not against his opinion, I just question his motives.

For example, he has stated he is not interested in ATI technology, this is a stance I am perfectly happy with.

But then why on earth does he have to be the most frequent poster in the *ATI* HD58x0 review thread, while I appreciate a mix of opinions, at some point people get enough, even me.
I don't care much for current nVidia technologies such as physx and dx10.x hardware, but I respectfully stay out of nVidia related threads, I don't talk in every nVidia thread about how physX will be replaced and without value in a few years time.

Sorry if that was to direct and not allowed on this forum, I'm fine with keys as a person, I'm happy for whatever opinions of hardware he was, but if he isn't interested in ATI technology, then could he at least keep his post count in an obvious ATI related thread to less than several posts every page?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Forumpanda

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
1 Lay off Keys he good person. You know his view . So live with it

As I said I am not against his opinion, I just question his motives.

For example, he has stated he is not interested in ATI technology, this is a stance I am perfectly happy with.

But then why on earth does he have to be the most frequent poster in the *ATI* HD58x0 review thread, while I appreciate a mix of opinions, at some point people get enough, even me.
I don't care much for current nVidia technologies such as physx and dx10.x hardware, but I respectfully stay out of nVidia related threads, I don't talk in every nVidia thread about how physX will be replaced and without value in a few years time.

Sorry if that was to direct and not allowed on this forum, I'm fine with keys as a person, I'm happy for whatever opinions of hardware he was, but if he isn't interested in ATI technology, then could he at least keep his post count in an obvious ATI related thread to less than several posts every page?

I said, "But I don't care for ATI products very much. I think they're good, but not my fav.". This does not mean I am not interested in ATI technology. It means I don't care for ATI products very much.
I "do" care about the tech. I expected much more. My expectations were too high, same as a lot of people here.

I don't have any "motives" for you to question here. I am "trying" to discuss the topic without getting hammered by double standard members.

Am I the most frequent poster in this thread? And this matters because it's a 5870 thread?
I'm sorry dude, but that is biased in of itself. I can post in this thread as much as I wish. If the title of this thread had been, "ATi 5850/5870 review thread, ATi enthused only please." I probably would have steered clear of it. I say probably, because I "was" enthused about it before it launched. I had both good and not so good comments about the new 5870. I'm not the only one, by FAR to do this.

You need to respect ALL opinions here. Not just respect them selectively. And all need to express there opinions while not attacking other members personally. Why members continue to do this is beyond me. They know it's against the rules, but do it anyway regardless of threat of ban or vacation. That blows my mind actually. Willing to sacrifice their membership here to get in a few good digs. Doesn't make sense, when they could do so much better by just dealing with the subject matter with facts and data.

This is the last I'll comment on this. Sorry for the extended OT.

 

[dguy6789]

You guys need to learn to agree to disagree. Interpret information that comes in however you want and discuss it. People are free to have their own opinions, and nobody is totally free of bias, everyone has some to some degree. Rather than personal attacks, discuss the points being made. It does not matter who says what really, all that matters is the content. If Keys says he isn't impressed with something or someone else does, that is not a problem. He has explained all of his points and has been very respectful to people who disagree. Others should show him the same courtesy. Discuss what is said, not who said it.

 

[GaiaHunter]

So we go from a thread where we have a $379 card, fastest single GPU in the market and many times the fastest single card in the market, the first one to support DX11 - and some battleforge tests running DX11 shows huge improvement in FPS over DX10/10.1, we have quite different reviews - some showing huge boost in performance while others only middling, CF reviews showing great scaling, to a thread about attacks and how to post and what not.

Clap Clap Clap!

I thought moderators were the ones supposed to decide if rules are being broken or not.

But not! Lets make the pages about personal attacks so no one can possible discuss technical aspects and what to expect of the 5870 2GB version, the 5850 and the 5870x2.

Clap Clap Clap!

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Forumpanda

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
1 Lay off Keys he good person. You know his view . So live with it

As I said I am not against his opinion, I just question his motives.

For example, he has stated he is not interested in ATI technology, this is a stance I am perfectly happy with.

But then why on earth does he have to be the most frequent poster in the *ATI* HD58x0 review thread, while I appreciate a mix of opinions, at some point people get enough, even me.
I don't care much for current nVidia technologies such as physx and dx10.x hardware, but I respectfully stay out of nVidia related threads, I don't talk in every nVidia thread about how physX will be replaced and without value in a few years time.

Sorry if that was to direct and not allowed on this forum, I'm fine with keys as a person, I'm happy for whatever opinions of hardware he was, but if he isn't interested in ATI technology, then could he at least keep his post count in an obvious ATI related thread to less than several posts every page?

Conflating a person's post count with your perception of their motives is one of those things that doesn't help you, if helping yourself is your goal in making a post like that.

At the end of all this what exactly are people whining about here, and what exactly is the solution to their supposed problems?

A mandatory max-post count ratio in a thread?

And who is to say which poster's motives are to be questioned? A poster with a single-post count can fill their post with more motive questioning words and sentences than a poster who might just be interested in interacting with the community a high rate.

When I sit back and read this thread it is the whiners who have derailed it.

Here we sit once again with folks who can't (or won't) restrict their conduct to simply sticking to the facts and counter facts with more facts...instead we, yet again, get another thread filled with anti-Keys rhetoric.

Every time a poster decides to make things personal they really are just shooting themselves in the foot, it is their online persona taking the credibility hit by branding themselves as a mudslinger, incapable of cordially debating the facts of the opposing viewpoints.

I'm unimpressed, and I've no doubt there are others like me who are unimpressed that all it takes for some of you posters to lose your cool and get personal is just little ole Keysplayer.

The guy must be a god to make all of you quiver in your boots so much that you can't formulate an effect retort to his stated positions in his posts. The best you can do is resort to impugning his character. How lame. How weak. You are outing yourselves and it is embarrassing. Can't debate? Can't formulate a retort based on facts alone?

Stay out of the kitchen then and leave it to the real pros who can. You are just adding noise to the thread and it is undermining those of us who are capable of doing the job without stooping to punches below the belt.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: Shaq
waa? The 295 is fine and is Nvidia's closest competitor to the 5870 and it looks to be a bit faster.
And many people prefer Nvidia to ATI. Some prefer Coke over Pepsi, Levi's over Wrangler. etc. Who cares? Buy what you like.

It's the closest competitor, but the real competition is Nvidia's single core chips that don't have SLI complications, just as the 5870 doesn't have Crossfire complications.

The fact that the 295, which is an absolute beast of a card and always been an amazing performer.. is the 5870s closest competitor is an amazing accomplishment for ATI and a big disappointment for NV. There's no way in hell comparing a multiGPU solution to a single GPU solution is fair to AMD at all.

Now, people might have done so in the past. I don't care. It's not fair any way you slice it.

The only fair comparison that would be right to do, is Crossfire 5870s vs the 295.. or two 285s in SLI.. whatever. All multiGPU solutions have similar pitfalls, thus it's not like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.

I will be saying the same thing when the 5870X2 card demolishes everything Nvidia releases in the 300 lineup.. which you know they'll tweak that card out to whatever is necessary to rain all over Nvidia's launch. I've never promoted the 4870X2, and never will.

SLI/Crossfire are like a beautiful woman. Great to look at, but you don't really want to buy the hottest woman on the block as they are a lot more trouble to live with everyday.

When you can get an amazingly hot woman (5870) with none of the complexities of the other hot women (295/SLI/Crossfire) and at a cheaper price.. the answer is clear.

I can understand your argument here. But what I don't understand is you going on about "fairness" to AMD. You think it is "unfair" to compare a single GPU 5870 to a Dual GPU GTX295. Yet you
think it's perfectly fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX285. ATI's current gen single GPU to Nvidia's last gen single GPU. So the only situations that are "fair" to you, are the ones that show ATI's latest
in the best possible light. 5870 is a really nice GPU. Powerful. Priced decently. But it's no 9700pro or G80. Not by a few miles. And for you to discount GTX295 as it's current direct competition because it's a multi-GPU card, is silly. Echoing what dguy just said one or two posts up. CF and SLI have come a long way. Truly, I can only speak from experience with SLI. The "pitfalls" you speak of are pretty rare these days. Few and far between. And about price/performance? All Nvidia should need to do at this point, is adjust pricing. This is normal when any new gen is released. Last gen cards pricing usually lowers, or cards are discontinued (4870x2). As a last gen flagship, the GTX295 was priced where it should have been. A new price adjustment for the GTX295 could be anywhere from 7% to 11% higher than a 5870 to correspond to it's overall performance lead over said 5870. Which means it should drop to about 405.00 to 420.00.

So, discount the GTX295 if you will. But that's not going to make it go away. :::shrugs::: Sorry.

I know you're trying really hard here... and I commend you. A couple important points in response-

"Yet you
think it's perfectly fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX285."

Just as it will be fine to compare a 5870 to a GTX385.

"And for you to discount GTX295 as it's current direct competition because it's a multi-GPU card, is silly."

Direct competition for the GTX295 is Crossfire 5870s. Pretending that isn't true, considering the 295 is SLI, is silly.

If it's not the correct comparison, then what is comparable to Crossfire 5870s? SLI 285s? I'd say throw all SLI/Xfire solutions against each other. If NV wins with quadSLI, then so be it.

"The "pitfalls" you speak of are pretty rare these days."

I've also owned SLI, but was not given it recently by Nvidia. I'm aware of all the fixes that have happened over the years since I used it, and it has gotten better.
The bottom line is, it's not a 100% seamless experience like a single GPU card. Microstutter and individual game issues still exist. End of debate.

"All Nvidia should need to do at this point, is adjust pricing."

All Nvidia CAN do at this point, you mean. Please stop pretending they have any sort of upper hand or any cards to play at all right now. They can drop prices on 3 year old technology. Great.

"So, discount the GTX295 if you will. But that's not going to make it go away. :::shrugs::: Sorry."

No ones discounting it. Trust me, unbiased consumers want the 5850 or 5870 and we aren't scared of what amounts to a 3 year old GPU like the 295. Not everyone thinks it's a good idea to spend a lot of money on 3 year designs like the 200 series.
You're seeing what I'm saying through green colored glasses, and I will buy Nvidia next time if they create a single GPU card as good as the 5870. I've owned far more NV than ATI since I started buying GPUs in 1997 with my Diamond Monster 3D.





I'll ask you again Keys. What is your purpose in this thread, to rain on everyones parade, or simply damper enthusiasm for an ATI product?

When will we see how unbiased you are, promoting an ATI product? Because it's simple math that Nvidia is not always in the lead. They aren't right now in fact. If you love the technology, why are you downplaying ATI's new cards? Is it because you receive cards, motherboards and games from Nvidia through the focus group? And are you admitting that you have been bought, thus can't be taken as an objective source of information?
That is fine by me, but don't try to pass off your view as one that is in the best interests of the consumer.

keys was a big nvidia fan well before he became a focus group member. This isn't exactly a secret. I remember when he and apoppin did a 2900xt vs 8800gts 640 comparison 2+ years ago, it was obvious that keys was speaking for nvidia and apoppin for ati. Some people prefer companies for whatever reason, so be it. At least he doesn't shit on threads like rollo did. At least he doesn't make up bs constantly.

If you don't agree with key's points then counter them with well-reasoned arguments. You are obviously struggling with those so now you've descended into into personal attacks against him. Maybe a little vacation would give you some time to reflect on the error of your ways?

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
The reason myself, Obsoleet, and others are angry at certain known members on this forum who continually damper enthusiasm around ANY ATI related product is because this site is supposed to be a repository for great technology information. If nobody is countering their constant lies, deception, and misleading statements then we're going to end up with a large mass of uninformed buyers out there who use sites like this to do research on products.

yes, but you argue about it in a much better manner than obsoleet does. Maybe he should be taking notes?

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Forumpanda

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
1 Lay off Keys he good person. You know his view . So live with it

As I said I am not against his opinion, I just question his motives.

For example, he has stated he is not interested in ATI technology, this is a stance I am perfectly happy with.

But then why on earth does he have to be the most frequent poster in the *ATI* HD58x0 review thread, while I appreciate a mix of opinions, at some point people get enough, even me.
I don't care much for current nVidia technologies such as physx and dx10.x hardware, but I respectfully stay out of nVidia related threads, I don't talk in every nVidia thread about how physX will be replaced and without value in a few years time.

Sorry if that was to direct and not allowed on this forum, I'm fine with keys as a person, I'm happy for whatever opinions of hardware he was, but if he isn't interested in ATI technology, then could he at least keep his post count in an obvious ATI related thread to less than several posts every page?

I said, "But I don't care for ATI products very much. I think they're good, but not my fav.". This does not mean I am not interested in ATI technology. It means I don't care for ATI products very much.
I "do" care about the tech. I expected much more. My expectations were too high, same as a lot of people here.

I don't have any "motives" for you to question here. I am "trying" to discuss the topic without getting hammered by double standard members.

Am I the most frequent poster in this thread? And this matters because it's a 5870 thread?
I'm sorry dude, but that is biased in of itself. I can post in this thread as much as I wish. If the title of this thread had been, "ATi 5850/5870 review thread, ATi enthused only please." I probably would have steered clear of it. I say probably, because I "was" enthused about it before it launched. I had both good and not so good comments about the new 5870. I'm not the only one, by FAR to do this.

You need to respect ALL opinions here. Not just respect them selectively. And all need to express there opinions while not attacking other members personally. Why members continue to do this is beyond me. They know it's against the rules, but do it anyway regardless of threat of ban or vacation. That blows my mind actually. Willing to sacrifice their membership here to get in a few good digs. Doesn't make sense, when they could do so much better by just dealing with the subject matter with facts and data.

This is the last I'll comment on this. Sorry for the extended OT.

Don't worry, I think that I have more posts in this thread than you do, and I'm not crapping on either camp. Well, maybe I'm crapping on both a little bit, since I WAS slightly disappointed in 5870 due to unrealistically high expectations, and I am HIGHLY disappointed in nvidias pathetic response thus far.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

I agree with forum panda, and Id say anyone related with either companies should just stop posting on review threads... Its pointless, nothing good will come out of it

If you wanna make new threads with info about your company, go ahead, thats another thing, but crapping the new launch of your rival is of bad taste

But we will all be here when GT300 launches, looking closely at how fast it is, and seeing what kind of comments come out of the nvidia people,

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Don't worry, I think that I have more posts in this thread than you do, and I'm not crapping on either camp. Well, maybe I'm crapping on both a little bit, since I WAS slightly disappointed in 5870 due to unrealistically high expectations, and I am HIGHLY disappointed in nvidias pathetic response thus far.

Doubling the power of something isn't exactly easy and nVidia will probably fail to do that as well.

Still, while the DX9/DX10/DX10.1 benchmarks are of relevance, this is the first generation of cards that we will do DX11 and DX11 performance will be the real test. Those battleforge benchmark that included DX11 pathway shown a quite considerable increase going from DX10.1 to DX11 for the 5870.


Yes, DX11 isn't out yet but it is coming and will only accelerate. And when then new xbox gets out and games move into DX11, well expect DX11 games everywhere.

nVidia task isn't only to match the 5870 (or surpass it) performance in DX9/10 but to offer DX11 performance.

Sure, nVidia offer physiX and other functions non exclusive or even non related to gaming, but physX still doesn't impress (especially when they have to remove even the most basic physics effects that old and recent games without physX can do - vide the hack for CPU physics for Batman AA) and graphics cards main job still is gaming, even if Ati offers (or is starting to offer other non gaming functions as well).

We will have to wait and see, but I agree with you - nVidia is silent too silent or when it talks it goes on tangents.

Eating popcorns and waiting for the next episode of "Red 5000 vs green GT300".

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter
nVidia is silent too silent or when it talks it goes on tangents.

Jensen is unparalleled in this regard, even Steve Jobs can't step into those shoes :laugh:

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/14538

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
I'm posting as a member in this thread, and in any video thread. You should learn the difference between a moderator and a member.

Khm, it's not easy when you post with a badge like this:

Keysplayr
Elite Member
CPU Moderator

Titles, even if such weightless like "Elite Member" tend to, khm, 'confuse' people, ya'know...

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter
nVidia is silent too silent or when it talks it goes on tangents.

Jensen is unparalleled in this regard, even Steve Jobs can't step into those shoes :laugh:

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/14538

Jensen never speaks about products unless he wants to make a point (ie investors call) - he always employs one PR Darth Vader (formerly known as Brian Burke, lured/bought from 3dfx, then the truly despicable Derek Perez, PoC, Ass. H.Ol., and currently, hmmm, SHerbin? I forgot his name) to manipulate the press and, with his army of "focus groups" and other, often paid astroturfers, to spread FUD on forums like this.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Forumpanda

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
1 Lay off Keys he good person. You know his view . So live with it

As I said I am not against his opinion, I just question his motives.

For example, he has stated he is not interested in ATI technology, this is a stance I am perfectly happy with.

But then why on earth does he have to be the most frequent poster in the *ATI* HD58x0 review thread, while I appreciate a mix of opinions, at some point people get enough, even me.
I don't care much for current nVidia technologies such as physx and dx10.x hardware, but I respectfully stay out of nVidia related threads, I don't talk in every nVidia thread about how physX will be replaced and without value in a few years time.

Sorry if that was to direct and not allowed on this forum, I'm fine with keys as a person, I'm happy for whatever opinions of hardware he was, but if he isn't interested in ATI technology, then could he at least keep his post count in an obvious ATI related thread to less than several posts every page?

I said, "But I don't care for ATI products very much. I think they're good, but not my fav.". This does not mean I am not interested in ATI technology. It means I don't care for ATI products very much.
I "do" care about the tech. I expected much more. My expectations were too high, same as a lot of people here.

I don't have any "motives" for you to question here. I am "trying" to discuss the topic without getting hammered by double standard members.

Am I the most frequent poster in this thread? And this matters because it's a 5870 thread?
I'm sorry dude, but that is biased in of itself. I can post in this thread as much as I wish. If the title of this thread had been, "ATi 5850/5870 review thread, ATi enthused only please." I probably would have steered clear of it. I say probably, because I "was" enthused about it before it launched. I had both good and not so good comments about the new 5870. I'm not the only one, by FAR to do this.

You need to respect ALL opinions here. Not just respect them selectively. And all need to express there opinions while not attacking other members personally. Why members continue to do this is beyond me. They know it's against the rules, but do it anyway regardless of threat of ban or vacation. That blows my mind actually. Willing to sacrifice their membership here to get in a few good digs. Doesn't make sense, when they could do so much better by just dealing with the subject matter with facts and data.

This is the last I'll comment on this. Sorry for the extended OT.

The issue is you are part of the Nvidia marketing arm, that in itself is the problem. AT has had problems with it before with nRollo and I know anyone that was here back around that time still has a bitter taste in our moths about how Nvidia used guerilla tactics to deceive everyone.

This is furthermore compounded by the fact that you clearly show biases, which is an issue with your elite member and moderator tags.

No, you arent Rollo, you don't go into every "what card do I buy thread" and troll them, but all the same, you have 1 hard line stance, the same message that you tend to always repeat and truthfully, it gets tiring.

Just look at this thread, you know you're raining on ATI's parade and helping derail this thread.

You're a moderator now, act like it. You have a certain set of responsibilities and you should stick to it. Either, actually moderate, or give up your moderator and elite member privileges for your Nvidia marketing.

I don't know why AT lets this happen, maybe they don't care about neutrality as much, maybe they're getting kickbacks, maybe they're scared of offending Nvidia, but either way, you are reducing the quality and trustworthiness of AT forums and decreasing experience for everyone and you know it. If you think any way else, you're plain and simply deluding yourself.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Forumpanda

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
1 Lay off Keys he good person. You know his view . So live with it

As I said I am not against his opinion, I just question his motives.

For example, he has stated he is not interested in ATI technology, this is a stance I am perfectly happy with.

But then why on earth does he have to be the most frequent poster in the *ATI* HD58x0 review thread, while I appreciate a mix of opinions, at some point people get enough, even me.
I don't care much for current nVidia technologies such as physx and dx10.x hardware, but I respectfully stay out of nVidia related threads, I don't talk in every nVidia thread about how physX will be replaced and without value in a few years time.

Sorry if that was to direct and not allowed on this forum, I'm fine with keys as a person, I'm happy for whatever opinions of hardware he was, but if he isn't interested in ATI technology, then could he at least keep his post count in an obvious ATI related thread to less than several posts every page?

I said, "But I don't care for ATI products very much. I think they're good, but not my fav.". This does not mean I am not interested in ATI technology. It means I don't care for ATI products very much.
I "do" care about the tech. I expected much more. My expectations were too high, same as a lot of people here.

I don't have any "motives" for you to question here. I am "trying" to discuss the topic without getting hammered by double standard members.

Am I the most frequent poster in this thread? And this matters because it's a 5870 thread?
I'm sorry dude, but that is biased in of itself. I can post in this thread as much as I wish. If the title of this thread had been, "ATi 5850/5870 review thread, ATi enthused only please." I probably would have steered clear of it. I say probably, because I "was" enthused about it before it launched. I had both good and not so good comments about the new 5870. I'm not the only one, by FAR to do this.

You need to respect ALL opinions here. Not just respect them selectively. And all need to express there opinions while not attacking other members personally. Why members continue to do this is beyond me. They know it's against the rules, but do it anyway regardless of threat of ban or vacation. That blows my mind actually. Willing to sacrifice their membership here to get in a few good digs. Doesn't make sense, when they could do so much better by just dealing with the subject matter with facts and data.

This is the last I'll comment on this. Sorry for the extended OT.

The issue is you are part of the Nvidia marketing arm, that in itself is the problem. AT has had problems with it before with nRollo and I know anyone that was here back around that time still has a bitter taste in our moths about how Nvidia used guerilla tactics to deceive everyone.

This is furthermore compounded by the fact that you clearly show biases, which is an issue with your elite member and moderator tags.

No, you arent Rollo, you don't go into every "what card do I buy thread" and troll them, but all the same, you have 1 hard line stance, the same message that you tend to always repeat and truthfully, it gets tiring.

Just look at this thread, you know you're raining on ATI's parade and helping derail this thread.

You're a moderator now, act like it. You have a certain set of responsibilities and you should stick to it. Either, actually moderate, or give up your moderator and elite member privileges for your Nvidia marketing.

I don't know why AT lets this happen, maybe they don't care about neutrality as much, maybe they're getting kickbacks, maybe they're scared of offending Nvidia, but either way, you are reducing the quality and trustworthiness of AT forums and decreasing experience for everyone and you know it. If you think any way else, you're plain and simply deluding yourself.

If you honestly think that nvidia can intimidate Anand or they're offering him payoffs then maybe you should ask him directly. Keys has been a key forum contributor here for many years; he achieved elite status by spending countless hours on video card research and posting the results here. Sure he has preferences, and it seems to me that his preferences don't jive with a good %, perhaps even a majority, of our video card forums. Heck, his preferences don't jive with MINE many times but I don't resort to throwing "focus group" comments at him if we are having a disagreement. If you or anyone else has a problem with him then I suggest that you bring it up with the Anandtech Moderator. Let's let derek come in here (if he has 24 hrs to read through all the bs in this thread) and give an opinion on it. I must warn you, however, he might end up locking the entire thing and give out a few vacations if he does. Everybody, please quit the bitching and stick to the topic at hand.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Forumpanda

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
1 Lay off Keys he good person. You know his view . So live with it

As I said I am not against his opinion, I just question his motives.

For example, he has stated he is not interested in ATI technology, this is a stance I am perfectly happy with.

But then why on earth does he have to be the most frequent poster in the *ATI* HD58x0 review thread, while I appreciate a mix of opinions, at some point people get enough, even me.
I don't care much for current nVidia technologies such as physx and dx10.x hardware, but I respectfully stay out of nVidia related threads, I don't talk in every nVidia thread about how physX will be replaced and without value in a few years time.

Sorry if that was to direct and not allowed on this forum, I'm fine with keys as a person, I'm happy for whatever opinions of hardware he was, but if he isn't interested in ATI technology, then could he at least keep his post count in an obvious ATI related thread to less than several posts every page?

I said, "But I don't care for ATI products very much. I think they're good, but not my fav.". This does not mean I am not interested in ATI technology. It means I don't care for ATI products very much.
I "do" care about the tech. I expected much more. My expectations were too high, same as a lot of people here.

I don't have any "motives" for you to question here. I am "trying" to discuss the topic without getting hammered by double standard members.

Am I the most frequent poster in this thread? And this matters because it's a 5870 thread?
I'm sorry dude, but that is biased in of itself. I can post in this thread as much as I wish. If the title of this thread had been, "ATi 5850/5870 review thread, ATi enthused only please." I probably would have steered clear of it. I say probably, because I "was" enthused about it before it launched. I had both good and not so good comments about the new 5870. I'm not the only one, by FAR to do this.

You need to respect ALL opinions here. Not just respect them selectively. And all need to express there opinions while not attacking other members personally. Why members continue to do this is beyond me. They know it's against the rules, but do it anyway regardless of threat of ban or vacation. That blows my mind actually. Willing to sacrifice their membership here to get in a few good digs. Doesn't make sense, when they could do so much better by just dealing with the subject matter with facts and data.

This is the last I'll comment on this. Sorry for the extended OT.

The issue is you are part of the Nvidia marketing arm, that in itself is the problem. AT has had problems with it before with nRollo and I know anyone that was here back around that time still has a bitter taste in our moths about how Nvidia used guerilla tactics to deceive everyone.

This is furthermore compounded by the fact that you clearly show biases, which is an issue with your elite member and moderator tags.

No, you arent Rollo, you don't go into every "what card do I buy thread" and troll them, but all the same, you have 1 hard line stance, the same message that you tend to always repeat and truthfully, it gets tiring.

Just look at this thread, you know you're raining on ATI's parade and helping derail this thread.

You're a moderator now, act like it. You have a certain set of responsibilities and you should stick to it. Either, actually moderate, or give up your moderator and elite member privileges for your Nvidia marketing.

I don't know why AT lets this happen, maybe they don't care about neutrality as much, maybe they're getting kickbacks, maybe they're scared of offending Nvidia, but either way, you are reducing the quality and trustworthiness of AT forums and decreasing experience for everyone and you know it. If you think any way else, you're plain and simply deluding yourself.

If you honestly think that nvidia can intimidate Anand or they're offering him payoffs then maybe you should ask him directly. Keys has been a key forum contributor here for many years; he achieved elite status by spending countless hours on video card research and posting the results here. Sure he has preferences, and it seems to me that his preferences don't jive with a good %, perhaps even a majority, of our video card forums. Heck, his preferences don't jive with MINE many times but I don't resort to throwing "focus group" comments at him if we are having a disagreement. If you or anyone else has a problem with him then I suggest that you bring it up with the Anandtech Moderator. Let's let derek come in here (if he has 24 hrs to read through all the bs in this thread) and give an opinion on it. I must warn you, however, he might end up locking the entire thing and give out a few vacations if he does. Everybody, please quit the bitching and stick to the topic at hand.

If this is all true then how TF anyone should believe he suddenly just 'became uninterested in ATI'???
Your excuse just makes his behavior even more pathetic.

This is all BS, seriously, let's face it. He's been bought and he works for his 'reimbursments', period.