ATi 5850/5870 review thread

[T2k]

Here I am hoping for a ~$380 5850X2 2GB with a cool custom cooling solution - perhaps a WC block from XFX a' la BFG...?

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: T2k
Sapphire is a huge OEM cardmaker, even Built by ATI cards were Sapphire ever since they stopped making cards (though they still have their little card fab up in the White North.) And ASUS and Gigabytes were and are part of the Big 5 - ATI always had high quality vendors, I have no idea what are you talking about.

You're seeing the effects of marketing. I can see why people think the NV brands are an advantage, when in reality what you say is the truth. The ATI side has never seemed as high profile. I'm glad to see an old time favorite, Visiontek, making ATI. And XFX, which is what I ordered.
Though I will say, I've had great luck with BFG and when I buy NV cards that's what I try to get.

 

[imported_Shaq]

It wasn't about high profile. It was about lifetime warranties which, most if not all, ATI brands lacked not to mention step up opportunities. That is how they got their brand recognition.

 

[Obsoleet]

You don't think their image as being high quality providers has helped? I think you're mostly correct tho on the warranties and step up. I just think there was some marketing involved. I've never seen any compelling Sapphire marketing.

 

[imported_Shaq]

Yes but that is why they became high quality providers . EVGA and BFG in particular as they were the first with lifetime warranties. XFX added one later, then BFG added a 100 day step up. EVGA also has a cross-ship option when you register their cards. Now that XFX sells ATI cards they will become one of their preferred providers because of the double lifetime warranty. Any of the other ATI brands could have done the same.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

If Nvidia gets an engineering team better than ATI's.. I'll be buying Nvidia no doubt.

sure you will... did you buy an 8800gtx when it was so clearly superior to ati's offerings? 8800gt? If you did, then why are you so clearly favoring ati in your posts and going nuclear on people who favor nvidia?

@nemesis: be at peace my friend. You will find true happiness through meditation. A pinch in time saves nine. Chuch norris can kill two stones with one bird.

I'm ready for your written apology. Yes, I bought a 8800GTX on launch day for $650.

q]

not sure that I owe you a written apology. You must have missed the part where I said "if you did, then why are you so clearly favoring ati in your posts and going nuclear on people who favor nvidia?" Are you just looking for a fight?

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I used to think that evga, bfg, and xfx were a big advantage for nvidia since they were the consensus top 3,

By who? Probably by people who don't have a clue about them - eVGA is not even a manufacturer, it's only a brand, swapped on OEM cards made by Jetway. BFG is the same thing, a logo on Foxconn-made cards IIRC.

XFX is at least a brand of Pine Group, a decent OEM so at least they mfr thus control their own chain.

but now that xfx is going both ways, VT is strong, plus asus, gigabyte, sapphire, his, etc you have a lot of decent choices with ati as well.

Sapphire is a huge OEM cardmaker, even Built by ATI cards were Sapphire ever since they stopped making cards (though they still have their little card fab up in the White North.) And ASUS and Gigabytes were and are part of the Big 5 - ATI always had high quality vendors, I have no idea what are you talking about.

[/quote]

seriously? other than VT, which long-term ati vendor has offered a lifetime warranty? double lifetime? step-up? XFX going both ways is a very big deal for ati, don't downplay it. I personally usually just get the cheapest well known brand(sapphire for ati and msi for nvidia), but for many people having a lifetime and/or double lifetime warranty is a deal breaker.

ah, I see that shaq beat me to the punch.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Well since this is a video card thread. I thought I would let those interested watch this video. Its a GPU ART. I love this guys style , Interesting stuff. injoy.

http://www.projectoffset.com/i...eo-blog-part-1&catid=1

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: lopri
7950 GX2 vs. 8800 GTX
9800 GX2 vs. GTX 280
HD 3870 X2 vs. HD 4890

And now,

GTX 295 vs. HD 5870

Are these really such a difficult choice? I'm very confused.

Edit: I mean, I thought it was a settled wisdom that one should go for the best single-GPU card that s/he can afford before considering multi-GPU configurations.

Depends on what your upgrading from (what performance level), and if you already have a SLI system or not.

I actually went from 9800 GX2 to GTX 280 because of my monitor.

The problem is GTX 295 is faster then HD 5870. It's also a single card solution and doesn't require a SLI mobo. So that's not the issue.

I personally prefer a single GPU solution if the same performance level can be achieved. However at this point it isn't.

9800 GX2 vs GTX 280 was a different story, GTX 280 were a good $150 more expensive then the fallen price of the 9800 GX2. It's obviously a no brainer at the same price, but not with a price differential.

GTX 295 and HD 5870 aren't in the same price bracket anyway...

If you were coming from a 8800 GT/9800 GT/HD 4850/4870 512MB I could wholeheartedly recommend going for the HD 5870. But if your higher then that, it's starts to become a tougher recommendation as the performance increase is no longer as dramatic.

Once you reach 4870 1GB your looking at 60% increase... for me personally that would be a bit of tough call to make the jump. Some still might be satisfied with that level of increase...

 

[scooterlibby]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I used to think that evga, bfg, and xfx were a big advantage for nvidia since they were the consensus top 3, but now that xfx is going both ways, VT is strong, plus asus, gigabyte, sapphire, his, etc you have a lot of decent choices with ati as well.

Damn, if EVGA went ATI too I would be beyond tempted to go to the red team. I'm still tempted, but EVGA and Step Up would seal the deal.

 

[scooterlibby]

Also, I realize that product differentiation through marketing gives the illusion of different choices for the same product, but EVGA does offer top notch service and no one else does Step Up.

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
not sure that I owe you a written apology. You must have missed the part where I said "if you did, then why are you so clearly favoring ati in your posts and going nuclear on people who favor nvidia?" Are you just looking for a fight?

Haha.. I just bet you didn't expect that comeback Yeah regardless of fury against NV huff-puff, I like Nvidia products when they're good.
Who wouldn't favor ATI right now?? That's the real question. The 5870 is awesome! It trounces it's direct competition (285 and 4890) and equals the 295 (SLI) that's all you can ask for and all we can ever hope to get. Toss in triple output, Dx11 and their usual great HDMI audio and you have a very kickass product. It just gets me good when someone tries to unfairly talk such a good product down.

My 8800GTX was probably (until possibly the 5870) the best money I've ever spend on a video card. Outside of my Diamond Monster 3D (voodoo 1) for $400 back in ~97, no one can touch the value of the original.

BEST of BREED is the only way to buy unless you're being paid by ATI or Nvidia. Right now ATI is best of breed and that's really hard for fanboys to fight because regardless of all the sophism going on, it's a very dominant card. If a single card isn't enough, put it in Crossfire and you can handle anything out there, game or competitors solution.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: scooterlibby
Also, I realize that product differentiation through marketing gives the illusion of different choices for the same product, but EVGA does offer top notch service and no one else does Step Up.

BFG has the stepup too. 100 days.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: Shaq
It wasn't about high profile. It was about lifetime warranties which, most if not all,

Which is exactly what I was talking about WRT these "brand-only" companies: no manufacturing background, no operations, nothing but BS marketing - lifetime warranty...
FYI all Built by ATI cards carried 3 years warranty as far as I can remember back in time.
After 2 years cards' - even my original 9700 Pro's - price fell down to $100 or less and after 3 years postage would've cost more than another used card on eBay.
All big names like ASUS or Gigabyte always carried 3-year warranty on their retail boxed cards.
All this is regardless of ownership - I have RMA'd cards for several people or companies over the past 6-8 years and never had a problem (as a matter of fact since it was always well within 3 years form product launch they never asked for anything other than a serial number.)

ATI brands lacked not to mention step up opportunities.

Utter nonsense. It is ATI who has the longest-running upgrade program, since late 90s IIRC: http://shop.ati.com/tradeup.asp

That is how they got their brand recognition.

Through BS marketing, right.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

ah, I see that shaq beat me to the punch.

And he was just as dead wrong as you are.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: scooterlibby
Also, I realize that product differentiation through marketing gives the illusion of different choices for the same product, but EVGA does offer top notch service and no one else does Step Up.

Can we stop presenting our own (often ignorant) opinions as "facts"?
I don't see what is "top notch" in repairing a 5-year old, ~$20 worth of VGA card for !$30 RMA shipping fee and you're wrong, there were much better "step-up" programs from ATI, not limited to X days owners.
See my post above

 

[bryanW1995]

good one, $50 is the same thing as a trade up program... I'll give you $50 for your 4890, how's that sound? The step up prgram is not "bs marketing", it is very smart. It gets people to buy more of their cards because when the next gen rumors start going hot and heavy their sales won't slump as much. Why fear purchasing a gtx 285 if you know that gtx 380 will be out in 45 days and you'll get 100% credit for the 285? Also, every ati vendor except VT went to a one year warranty several years ago. You are correct that 3 years is pretty good, but one year sucks.

edit: that was why xfx going both ways was such a big deal, it gave customers worried about warranty support a viable alternative to VT. Nothing wrong with VT, but it's nice to have choice, no?

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
good one, $50 is the same thing as a trade up program... I'll give you $50 for your 4890, how's that sound?

Depending when. And obviously it's aimed at people who cannot sell for more, mind you.

The step up prgram is not "bs marketing", it is very smart. It gets people to buy more of their cards because when the next gen rumors start going hot and heavy their sales won't slump as much. Why fear purchasing a gtx 285 if you know that gtx 380 will be out in 45 days and you'll get 100% credit for the 285?

I don't see this as a huge advantage... why would I buy it then? To go through the mess of packing-sending-receiving again?

Frankly I've never met anyone who's taken advantage of this. Of course, I only knew one person who took advantage of ATI's Trade Up as well but he'd sent in a buggy card...

Also, every ati vendor except VT went to a one year warranty several years ago. You are correct that 3 years is pretty good, but one year sucks.

Dunno but I recall having 3 years on my ASUS card years ago...

edit: that was why xfx going both ways was such a big deal, it gave customers worried about warranty support a viable alternative to VT. Nothing wrong with VT, but it's nice to have choice, no?

 

[imported_Shaq]

LOL $50. If you buy the fastest cards available you would have to keep it for at least 3 years before it would be worth it. That sounds more like BS to me if it is never going to be used. Many, many people use step up. And you can get the newest card after a short delay. Step Up, like bryan said, gives you the full value you paid for the card. Shipping is no problem because if you buy a card right before a new card comes out the value could be cut in half overnight so the cost of shipping is worth it. If you want to pay $40 or so you can get a new card overnight if your current one breaks but you have to pay when you register the card unfortunately. I always sell my cards before I use any of these services but it's a plus that they're there if I need them. EVGA cards have a better resale value also because of the "BS marketing".

And who cares if they actually manufacture anything? A warranty is a warranty. They can make funnel cakes for all I care if their warranties are honored.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: Shaq
LOL $50. If you buy the fastest cards available you would have to keep it for at least 3 years before it would be worth it. That sounds more like BS to me if it is never going to be used. Many, many people use step up. And you can get the newest card after a short delay. Step Up, like bryan said, gives you the full value you paid for the card. Shipping is no problem because if you buy a card right before a new card comes out the value could be cut in half overnight so the cost of shipping is worth it. If you want to pay $40 or so you can get a new card overnight if your current one breaks but you have to pay when you register the card unfortunately. I always sell my cards before I use any of these services but it's a plus that they're there if I need them. EVGA cards have a better resale value also because of the "BS marketing".

And who cares if they actually manufacture anything? A warranty is a warranty. They can make funnel cakes for all I care if their warranties are honored.

Oh well... all is right in Wonderland, I can tell that.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: Shaq
LOL $50. If you buy the fastest cards available you would have to keep it for at least 3 years before it would be worth it. That sounds more like BS to me if it is never going to be used. Many, many people use step up. And you can get the newest card after a short delay. Step Up, like bryan said, gives you the full value you paid for the card. Shipping is no problem because if you buy a card right before a new card comes out the value could be cut in half overnight so the cost of shipping is worth it. If you want to pay $40 or so you can get a new card overnight if your current one breaks but you have to pay when you register the card unfortunately. I always sell my cards before I use any of these services but it's a plus that they're there if I need them. EVGA cards have a better resale value also because of the "BS marketing".

And who cares if they actually manufacture anything? A warranty is a warranty. They can make funnel cakes for all I care if their warranties are honored.

Oh well... all is right in Wonderland, I can tell that.

how is a great program like step up or a lifetime warranty "wonderland"?

 

[dguy6789]

To me, step up is similar to selling your games back to Gamestop. You get way way less for the card than it is worth. You can pretty much always get at least twice as much money for the card by selling it to someone than the credit you get for step up.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
To me, step up is similar to selling your games back to Gamestop. You get way way less for the card than it is worth. You can pretty much always get at least twice as much money for the card by selling it to someone than the credit you get for step up.

You do realize that you get 100% of what you paid for it towards your next card, at least at EVGA?

So I would have to say you are incorrect, unless you think you can get twice as much as you paid for the card.

 

[dguy6789]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: dguy6789
To me, step up is similar to selling your games back to Gamestop. You get way way less for the card than it is worth. You can pretty much always get at least twice as much money for the card by selling it to someone than the credit you get for step up.

You do realize that you get 100% of what you paid for it towards your next card, at least at EVGA?

So I would have to say you are incorrect, unless you think you can get twice as much as you paid for the card.

I was under the impression that you would get ~$100 for a top of the line card towards your new purchase. If you do in fact get exactly what you purchased it for back, then that's fantastic.

 

[scooterlibby]

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: scooterlibby
Also, I realize that product differentiation through marketing gives the illusion of different choices for the same product, but EVGA does offer top notch service and no one else does Step Up.

Can we stop presenting our own (often ignorant) opinions as "facts"?
I don't see what is "top notch" in repairing a 5-year old, ~$20 worth of VGA card for !$30 RMA shipping fee and you're wrong, there were much better "step-up" programs from ATI, not limited to X days owners.
See my post above

No need to be douchey and personally antagonistic. I simply stated my opinion. Fair point about Step-UP, but the other thing that keeps me a loyal customer is 24/7 tech support guys that are quite helpful. And yes, it is my opinion, ignorant or not, that they are helpful (not indisputable fact).