ATI 9700 Pro AGP - Upgrade?

[geobatman]

Hi guys,

First, my computer is:

AMD Athlon Socket 754 64bit 2800+ 1.81ghz
Gigabyte GA-K8NS Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce3 250
1 gb of ram (i think its no name)
Seagate Baracuda 7200 250gb
Enermax case with Enermax 350 power supply (don't know model, cost around $100)
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro (bought around the time it came out)
Dell UltraSharp 1905FP

In my windows settings i have resolution at 1280x1024.

Comments/Questions

1) I play WoW and run it at default settings at 1280x1024. It plays well on default settings except when your in main cities and there are 50-100 people around you. FPS drops from avg 40-60 to 5-20. If i drop resolution to 1024x768 i get about 5 fps max in all situations (although for both resolutions, it never goes past 60, ever.) I also can play Counterstrike:Source at auto-detect settings, with around 30-50 fps.

Q: Without moving to PCI-E, what video card can I purchase that will give me a solid bump in fps? The general consensus is that the 6600 GT isnt a big enough upgrade over the 9700 pro and anything past the 6800 GS is far too expensive in Canada. What do i do? I can't even find the 6800 GS in Canada, and its already around 300 (CDN) with tax. The 7800 GS is cheapest 450 canadian with tax. The ATI high end AGP cards are never under 400 dollars, hitting 600 with tax. This is from common stores like tigerdirect.ca and canadacomputers.com. Either way I wouldnt go higher than the 6800 GS because then I can just go PCI-E.

2) I downloaded 3dmark2005 (from official site) and ran the free download which does not allow you to change anything. My score was around 750 the first time and 850 the second time. Is this normal?

All in all, I don't play on leaving World of Warcraft/CS:Source for 1-1.5 years or so. I'll still like to try other late 2005-future games, but they dont need to be in amazing quality.

My budget is 250 MAX canadian dollars (would have to be a hell of an upgrade), although i'd really like to spend as little as possible to get what i desire =)

 

[BassBomb]

stop posting multiple topics on same issue

6600GT will be a good uprade over the 9700pro

 

[geobatman]

no but sorry it posted in the for sale trade then was moved here before i could not post.
sorry.
thnx for opinion

 

[geobatman]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
stop posting multiple topics on same issue

6600GT will be a good uprade over the 9700pro

Using the search function, I found numerous thread stating that the 6600GT is not worth the money in terms of upgrade over the 9700pro.

I totally believe you but could you go into more detail, thxn agian.

 

[Fox5]

I vote on an x800xt, or x800pro/x800xl if you can't get that.
Check out the for sale board on this website.

 

[geobatman]

thanks for responses thus far. If possible please post 1 sentence explaining your opinion, thanks alot guys this board rules.

 

[Ika]

Get a used 6800NU or 6800GT (at a reasonable price) from this board's For Sale/Trade forum. Either should be powerful enough to make your CPU the bottleneck in most games, and are sold at reasonable prices (generally a 6800NU sells for about $130, and a 6800GT sells for about $180 US dollars).

 

[geobatman]

thanks very much, FYI a 6800 gt is around 350-400 canadian, so I will definietly have to buy used.

Any comments on horrible 3d2005mark score?

 

[R3LIC]

due to the price premium for AGP, i would consider buying a ~$100 PCI-E mobo and a ~$200 PCI-E video card instead of a $300 AGP card

try these:
DFI NF4X Infinity S754 & Sapphire X1600XT
Total = $283.56CD + Shipping

 

[dguy6789]

I had an Athlon 64 3000+ system(1.8Ghz, like yours) with a Radeon 9800 Pro that could score around 2500 in 3DMark05. If your 9700 Pro is scoring around 750, then there is definately a problem. I suggest downloading all windows updates, the latest motherboard drivers(You have an Nforce 3 250, exact board as I had). Also download the latest ATi drivers. Also make sure you have anti aliasing and anisotropic filtering turned to application preference in the driver settings. You should have texture and mipmap settings set to quality, and vsync set to off.

Video card drivers here:

https://support.ati.com/ics/support/def...deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=293

Motherboard drivers here:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nforce3_winxp_5.11


A Geforce 6800GT level video card would be a good upgrade for your machine.

 

[cmrmrc]

at ncix you can find a 7800gs at 346$ shipping and tax not included

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?...28&vpn=256-A8-N506-AX&manufacture=eVGA

or sapphire radeon x800gto for 220$

http://www.extreme-pc.ca/showproduct.as...69390&menu1id=12&menu2id=99&menu3id=39

 

[geobatman]

i've been looking into the x800gto but all fingers are pointing to the 6800gs or 6800gt.

perhaps this why they are sold out everywhere in Toronto.

 

[geobatman]

this thread makes me wonder if they'll ever have a card like the 9700 pro which can last for so long without upgrades!

See what i don't understand about my benchmark score is if I can run WoW, Condemned, etc well......why are the scores crappy.

And can I rule out my no-name ram being a problem since I can run everything quite well?

 

[pzkfwg]

Why bother with a 3dmark score if you can run your favorite games with satisfaction? Sure you run into extreme situations like in the village, but otherwise, I'm wondering if it is really worth 250$ to improve those situations.

By the way, I have the same problem with my 6600GT in Call of Duty 2: while a run the game with good resolution, on the D-Day scenario (with a hell lot of people on the beaches), the FPS drop to ~5 FPS, even at 800x600!!!

 

[kmmatney]

An upgrade to a 6600GT is not worth it - its just not worth the time and effort for such a small boost in performance. You need at least an X800GTO, or 6800GS.

However I agree with an above post - you are better off getting a low cost 754 PCIE motherboard, which would allow you to get a faster and cheaper video card. That's what I did, and it was well worth it, especially after selling my old parts. The way prices have been, you can spend $200 for a PCIE card that is the equivalent of a $300 AGP card.

Is your 2800+ an Athlon or Sempron? The overclock seems a little low, but I guess the earliest Athlons didn't overclock as well as the current batch.

Example:

NForce 6100 chipset
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130534
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138268
or, NForce4 chipset:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135190

and then:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102688
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814133150

That's a huge upgrade, plus I would think you'd get at least $80 for your existing motherboard and 9700Pro if you sell it, so not very much net cost for a huge upgrade.
Edit- The MSI 6100 board is not a good overclocker, but the Biostar board is.

 

[geobatman]

thanks so far for the responses.
kmmatney - its athlon

*Just a generic response to people posting PCI-E and stuff from newegg.com. This stuff is all great if i lived in the states. Finding eqilvalent stuff in Canada at those prices is impossible. Although the prices increase only 20-30 bucks per item, that ends up being another 80-100 when you factor in tax. I did the math*

Basically, i'm going to get a 6800 gs (then unlock it).
The availability the above card is terrible both on the market and on this board (because they sell so fast)

If anyone can find links or know somone who can get it to me in Canada for great price i'd be happy. I'll continue to shop every store myself.

So if I can't find the 6800 gs or an eqivalent for cheap.........no upgrading until i totally revamp!

 

[geobatman]

UPDATE

I usually don't shop at Futureshop but i just saw this tonight

ATI's All-In-Wonder X800XL 256MB AGP OEM Video Card - $170 CDN

Isn't that a great price?

Opinions, opinions!!!

 

[dguy6789]

Originally posted by: pzkfwg
Why bother with a 3dmark score if you can run your favorite games with satisfaction? Sure you run into extreme situations like in the village, but otherwise, I'm wondering if it is really worth 250$ to improve those situations.

By the way, I have the same problem with my 6600GT in Call of Duty 2: while a run the game with good resolution, on the D-Day scenario (with a hell lot of people on the beaches), the FPS drop to ~5 FPS, even at 800x600!!!

While some use 3Dmark for bragging rights, others use it to make sure their system is performing right. If he is scoring 750 in 3Dmark 05, there is something terribly wrong with his performance. He may not need an upgrade at all when he sees the difference between what his system is performing now(750) and where it should be(2000+).

 

[geobatman]

update

i ended up getting the x800 xl for $170
My bro installed it and without tweaking i got around 3900-4000 in 3dmark05

WoW looks amazing now and doesn't lag at all. I cranked the settings to max and res to 1280x1024

FEAR is a bit choppy...........ill try other stuff soon.

Huge difference i think, especially for 170 bucks.


Can anyone post the ultimate guide to tweeking the x800xl? There so many links on the net and when running a search its kinda hard to find a good one!

thanks everyon1

 

[geobatman]

please help

1) when i go to properties/settings/advanced/adaptor tab it reads:
Adaptor type: ALL-IN-WONDER X800 Series
Chip Type: RADEON X800 XT AGP (0x4A4B)

I thought i bought AIW Radeon X800 XL........wait isnt XT better? or did my bro install something wrong. The box from best buy says x800 XL.

2) in ATI catalyst control center in the SMARTGART tab, agp is turned off. WHen my bro moves the tab to 8x (my mother board supports 8xagp) and then resets, it automatically sets it back to agp OFF, 0x.

3) nforce3 is my motherboard(see sig) and there are drivers online. When my bro installs the new nforce3 thing i get BSOD and resets. As soon as we system restore previous to those updates, everything is fine.

Does these make a difference? Im not sure how to get the max performance out of my card.........im not even sure i have the right card!

Please help if you are familar with any of the above topics!

 

[dguy6789]

Generally, when you install an Ati Radeon X8XX series, the driver will simply say Radeon X800/X850 series without mentioning the specific card. You probably have an X800XL, despite it saying X800XT(Which is faster than an X800XL). To be sure, you simply have to check your video card's clocks. A program that is popular is ATI tool.

http://www.techpowerup.com/atitool/

Click on the 0.24 link. Do not overclock your card. Simply look at the clocks. If the GPU is 400MHz and the memory is at 490Mhz(980MHz if showing DDR mode) within say 5-10mhz then you will be okay. For example, if it says something like 395 gpu and 488 memory, you will be fine. As long as it is close to those clocks. If it is higher than 400 gpu and 490 memory, then you should consider yourself lucky.


There seems to be some sort of conflict having to do with your motherboard. How comfortable are you with flashing bioses and such? Also, I recommend that you make sure you have all of the windows updates, and make sure you have no viruses, spyware, or any other form of malware on your pc. To test stability, I suggest downloading prime 95 from here:

http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm

Click on the p95v2414.exe. Install it, then run the torture test at small ftts, do this for a period of at least 12 hours. If the pc crashes, or if prime 95 says an error occured, then we have a problem. If not, then your cpu can be stated to be stable. You can use your pc for other things(Including games) while prime 95 is running.

Go into your bios, and perhaps you should load up the default settings. Then make sure your HTT and cpu clocks and other essential settings to the right configuration(Including setting AGP to 8X). Then after that, try downloading the latest Nforce 3 drivers. Make sure you click on NF3, not NF1/2 or NF4. You have an Nforce 3.

 

[geobatman]

Ok ati tool reads 400mhz/490mhz.........so i definietly got the x800xl.

my bros gonna try the second thing you mentioned, and redo the drivers, and try gettin agp 8x working.

thanks agian dguy.

 

[dguy6789]

I am happy to be of service.

 

[kmmatney]

Don't worry if you cannot get 8x AGP working - it makes no difference for 4x (and barely any difference over 2x). Here is an example:

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=3&id=562&pg=3

 

[billymac]

What came with that radeon x800 oem
i am thinking of ordering it and was wondering if it included the remove, and the attachments for video in etc

Thanks