ATI a takeover target?

[Creig]

Sorry for the misquote. It gets hard to follow nested quotes sometimes.

But in actuality, they wouldn't need to sell extra units to maintain profits. The cards themselves would cost less to produce if yields were higher on the cores.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: Creig
Sorry for the misquote. It gets hard to follow nested quotes sometimes.

But in actuality, they wouldn't need to sell extra units to maintain profits. The cards themselves would cost less to produce if yields were higher on the cores.

Ahh i see what you mean, that is very true indeed.

Thing is what i dont understand is ppl are thinking this is the end of ATi.

When really if you think about it, its pretty much nothing. nVidia made a bad card with the NV30, everyone knows. They released it quite late after the 9700, and then were blown away by the 9800 also.

So if nVidia was late and didnt do as well in the gen. Then why arent they here?

ATi havent produced a bad card yet. They did extremely well in the 9700/9800 days. They did equally well as nVidia in the x800/x850 days.

So no bad cards that underperformed. ATi havent released their new R520 yet, less than one month after the 7800GTX, whoopdidooo. The X800XT-PE and X850XT-PE sold reasonably well even tho they were very very very late.

So in summary. ATi have had good track record in the last 2 gens of cards. Sold reasonably well against nVidia. And are less than 1 month away from the 7800GTX launch and EVERYONE is saying this is the end of ATi.

Give me a break, please someone explain to me how this is going to destroy ATI?

 

[Rage187]

This is so remenissant of 3DFX and the V6000. Way late to market and still had an outrageous price.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: Rage187
This is so remenissant of 3DFX and the V6000. Way late to market and still had an outrageous price.

But but but....

Were like only 2 weeks since the launch of teh 7800GTX

And pricing hasnt even come out yet?

How can it be "way late" and "outrageous price"

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: Rage187
This is so remenissant of 3DFX and the V6000. Way late to market and still had an outrageous price.

Actually R520 isn't late yet, it was planned for release on July 21st they still have 10 days before they're late, people are saying R520 has been delayed but unless we have an offical announcment by ATI we have to wait for the 21st to call R520 late.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Rage187
This is so remenissant of 3DFX and the V6000. Way late to market and still had an outrageous price.

But but but....

Were like only 2 weeks since the launch of teh 7800GTX

And pricing hasnt even come out yet?

How can it be "way late" and "outrageous price"

I think he's trying to say the projected release dates being tossed around will significantly impact R520 sales.

Many people have gone a year since their last video card upgrade, and are ready to upgrade again.

How many of those people are going to wait for R520s on the CHANCE they'll be significantly better and CHANCE they won't be a paper launch in the fall with availability in the winter?

Some might think: Why wait? I can go spend my $550 to $600 now and get roughly 6800U SLI performance and better AA, PureVideo, lower power, noise and size?

I know I did.

 

[g3pro]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Drayvn
Price. Unless ATi wants to see another loss, i dont think the new cards will come that cheaply, expecially when a company re tapes like 3 or more times.

Don't forget that the whole point of retaping is to increase yields per wafer which would allow ATI to sell their new cards at a lower price and still retain required profit margins.

No, ATi is retaping because the yields they were getting with the current cores were not high enough to keep ATi above water. This isn't a profit margin optimization. You don't retape and spend millions of dollars doing that just so you can increase profits, because the gains you make in one are lost by the retape. Essentially, ATi designed a core which gets such low yields that they wouldn't be able to market the product any time this year. They have to keep on redesigning what they have now just so they can actually produce enough chips to live.

Sorry, your FUD is not valid here. ATi is in some serious s***.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: g3pro

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Drayvn
Price. Unless ATi wants to see another loss, i dont think the new cards will come that cheaply, expecially when a company re tapes like 3 or more times.

Don't forget that the whole point of retaping is to increase yields per wafer which would allow ATI to sell their new cards at a lower price and still retain required profit margins.

No, ATi is retaping because the yields they were getting with the current cores were not high enough to keep ATi above water. This isn't a profit margin optimization. You don't retape and spend millions of dollars doing that just so you can increase profits, because the gains you make in one are lost by the retape. Essentially, ATi designed a core which gets such low yields that they wouldn't be able to market the product any time this year. They have to keep on redesigning what they have now just so they can actually produce enough chips to live.

Sorry, your FUD is not valid here. ATi is in some serious s***.

You're probably right about this. They have to be able to get enough GPUs per wafer to sell them at a profit.

 

[remagavon]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Dman877

Originally posted by: Rollo

What would be amusing to me is if nVidia bought controlling interest in them, because some people would take it so personally.

I would take it personally, I don't want to pay 1000$ for graphics cards. Monopoly = bad news for us dude.

Besides, ATI has more market-share then nvida anyway. Just because one analyst says something doesn't make it true.

More market share, but losing millions per quarter when nV is making millions per quarter? You can have 99.9% of the market, but all is not well if you're operating at a loss.

Anyway, you'll see $1000 graphics cards within 4-5 years if the trend of past 3 years keeps up: $400-9700P $500- 6800U/X800XTPE $600-7800GTX

The GF2 Ultra carried a $500 MSRP, so it's been going on for a while. $600 is the new number which I Hope doesn't stick.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Rage187
This is so remenissant of 3DFX and the V6000. Way late to market and still had an outrageous price.

But but but....

Were like only 2 weeks since the launch of teh 7800GTX

And pricing hasnt even come out yet?

How can it be "way late" and "outrageous price"

I think he's trying to say the projected release dates being tossed around will significantly impact R520 sales.

Many people have gone a year since their last video card upgrade, and are ready to upgrade again.

How many of those people are going to wait for R520s on the CHANCE they'll be significantly better and CHANCE they won't be a paper launch in the fall with availability in the winter?

Some might think: Why wait? I can go spend my $550 to $600 now and get roughly 6800U SLI performance and better AA, PureVideo, lower power, noise and size?

I know I did.

Ahh but some might actaually think the opposite. Which i think is the more popular way ppl think.

If i buy this now, how will it compare in 3 months time.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: g3pro

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Drayvn
Price. Unless ATi wants to see another loss, i dont think the new cards will come that cheaply, expecially when a company re tapes like 3 or more times.

Don't forget that the whole point of retaping is to increase yields per wafer which would allow ATI to sell their new cards at a lower price and still retain required profit margins.

No, ATi is retaping because the yields they were getting with the current cores were not high enough to keep ATi above water. This isn't a profit margin optimization. You don't retape and spend millions of dollars doing that just so you can increase profits, because the gains you make in one are lost by the retape. Essentially, ATi designed a core which gets such low yields that they wouldn't be able to market the product any time this year. They have to keep on redesigning what they have now just so they can actually produce enough chips to live.

Sorry, your FUD is not valid here. ATi is in some serious s***.

Since you're so sure of yourself, please provide a link proving your FUD is any more valid than my FUD.

 

[Creig]

I really think Nvidia cards should be regulated by the Surgeon General and should have a warning label printed on every box. It would go something like:

Surgeon General's Warning: Owning an Nvidia video card may cause its user to become irrationally intolerant of people who own cards from any other manufacturer.

 

[eelw]

Originally posted by: g3pro
ATi is in some serious s***.

Yes, as if this one single product line will cause ATI to go bankrupt. Who really cares they have several large OEM accounts and currently have a larger market share than NVidia.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Creig
I really think Nvidia cards should be regulated by the Surgeon General and should have a warning label printed on every box. It would go something like:

Surgeon General's Warning: Owning an Nvidia video card may cause its user to become irrationally intolerant of people who own cards from any other manufacturer.

Similar disease exists among the ATI fanboys, it appears. They need to go cold turkey and switch to matrox

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: Creig
I really think Nvidia cards should be regulated by the Surgeon General and should have a warning label printed on every box. It would go something like:

Surgeon General's Warning: Owning an Nvidia video card may cause its user to become irrationally intolerant of people who own cards from any other manufacturer.

Similar disease exists among the ATI fanboys, it appears. They need to go cold turkey and switch to matrox

Oh, they exist everywhere, to be sure. They just seem more, well... excitable... on the Nvidia side.

 

[alent1234]

some of you people have no imagination

i've read on this today and I think who ever is looking at ATI wants the low power technology and the HDTV technology for the next generation of consumer electronics. Rumor is that Apple is going to have a video ipod similar to the archos next year or 2007 that might use a broadcom video chip in there. Broadcom is rumored to be one of ATI's suitors. Everyone and their brother wants to take the consumer electronics market from the asians. No one cares about the next super duper video card that needs its own power connector and sounds like a jet engine.

 

[dornick]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Rage187
This is so remenissant of 3DFX and the V6000. Way late to market and still had an outrageous price.

But but but....

Were like only 2 weeks since the launch of teh 7800GTX

And pricing hasnt even come out yet?

How can it be "way late" and "outrageous price"

I think he's trying to say the projected release dates being tossed around will significantly impact R520 sales.

Many people have gone a year since their last video card upgrade, and are ready to upgrade again.

How many of those people are going to wait for R520s on the CHANCE they'll be significantly better and CHANCE they won't be a paper launch in the fall with availability in the winter?

Some might think: Why wait? I can go spend my $550 to $600 now and get roughly 6800U SLI performance and better AA, PureVideo, lower power, noise and size?

I know I did.

Rollo, I know it's hard for you to see, since you always get the top of the line stuff (usually from NVidia), but only people with huge wallets go out and spend $600 on a video card w/o seeing what competition will be, assuming they can wait a few months. If ATI had released the r520 a few months before, would you have immediately gone out and grabbed one because there was something more expensive? While doing either one is stupid IMO (unless you have to upgrade), I hope so for consistency's sake.

 

[Megamixman]

ATI won't die and neither will NVIDIA. Too many fan boys that would give blood to keep the companies a float. Besides even if they are rival companies, both are heading in the same direction technology wise. Both control the market together. There is no market without the other company, because they depend on each other to give them self an edge. It?s just like the idea of good and bad. One does not exist without the other. Secondly both companies are not limited to GPU's. Look at the HDTV wonder. I don't see a similar card by NVIDIA, but NVIDIA has the Nforce 4, of which ATI's chipset can't compete too well with. How well the R520 will do is still up in the air. There is no point in fighting over rumors.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: dornick
Rollo, I know it's hard for you to see, since you always get the top of the line stuff (usually from NVidia), but only people with huge wallets go out and spend $600 on a video card w/o seeing what competition will be, assuming they can wait a few months. If ATI had released the r520 a few months before, would you have immediately gone out and grabbed one because there was something more expensive? While doing either one is stupid IMO (unless you have to upgrade), I hope so for consistency's sake.

I bought a Rage Fury, MAXX, VIVO, 9700Pro, 9800Pro within two months of launch, usually one.

I'll buy the first R520 I see for MSRP, give it a good work out. ATI has lost my SLI business by being way late to the party.

I have two SLI motherboards already, if they wanted me to have Crossfire, they damn well should have launched it within 9 months of SLI availability. Man can't wait forever to see if they can make something good. (not to mention my doubts about their first SLI efforts rev1)

Comes a time you have to pull the trigger and buy.

 

[videoclone]

Looks like the only real ?Hardware? Company likely to take over ATI would be Intel?. It may force Nvidia and AMD to Merge or perish under the Mighty weight of the Intel/ATI Monster.

This would creative two VERY larg companies ? that makes CPU?s Chipsets and GPU?s

Intel/ATI and AMD/Nvidia

The Blue and Red team VS the Green And Green team ? hehe green & green

I think this would be pretty interesting ? and we would see competition like we have never seen befor?. VIA and SIS wouldn?t be very happy if Nvidia jumped in bed with AMD ? but what?s stoping VIA and SIS jumping in that same bed .. hehe

Ok now I?m being silly .. and it sounds like a takeover orgy . anyways When 400 Billion dollar companies get taken over and merge together its really fun to talk about and see.

^___^ and who said hardware news was boring.

 

[videoclone]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: biostud
clicky

time for some risky investment?

Holy crap, I guess even though some would have you believe "SM2b is 'good enough'" and "AIW products ownxors" ATI isn't doing so well.

What would be amusing to me is if nVidia bought controlling interest in them, because some people would take it so personally.

In Rollo's fanboy world he'd like Nvidia to buy everyone and kill off comitition. Nothing is beter than high prices and crappy products, ie. Creative Labs. Nvidia would have gone the same route if it were not for ATI. They killed 3dfx in part by bogus litigation and bought them out.

3DFX killed themselves with BAD Management and Feature CREAP on there products that got held back so long they couldn?t compete and inturn were on the verge of bankruptcy ?

Nvidia ?Helped? 3DFX ? They gave its owners and management awesome monetary retirement packages . Employed most of its workers and let it die with a Profit rather then a crippling dept.

Get your facts right?.. ^__^ ... PS: i love you plz dont flame me.

 

[niggles]

flamming sucks we should simply be able to make a point without fear of retribution unless we're being arses.
I just ting that this is bad for everyone no matter what happens. Someone already pointed out that no matter what happens with those of us gamers who think ATI should stay in business, we can't save them. It's far too large a company to simply be affected by a small interest group like gamers. To those that thin that there's not enough money around to buy ATI I say Intel has the interest and the funds to do it. If you look at the numbers *someone* is making a play for them, the question is who. We have no say in this so my call is to sit back and stay tuned.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Rage187
This is so remenissant of 3DFX and the V6000. Way late to market and still had an outrageous price.

But but but....

Were like only 2 weeks since the launch of teh 7800GTX

And pricing hasnt even come out yet?

How can it be "way late" and "outrageous price"

The chip just taped out a 2nd time, availability wont be until at *LEAST* late august.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Rage187
This is so remenissant of 3DFX and the V6000. Way late to market and still had an outrageous price.

But but but....

Were like only 2 weeks since the launch of teh 7800GTX

And pricing hasnt even come out yet?

How can it be "way late" and "outrageous price"

The chip just taped out a 2nd time, availability wont be until at *LEAST* late august.

Actually it was a third time and The Inquirer says September at the earliest.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: Rage187
This is so remenissant of 3DFX and the V6000. Way late to market and still had an outrageous price.

But but but....

Were like only 2 weeks since the launch of teh 7800GTX

And pricing hasnt even come out yet?

How can it be "way late" and "outrageous price"

The chip just taped out a 2nd time, availability wont be until at *LEAST* late august.

Actually it was a third time and The Inquirer says September at the earliest.

I wasnt aware of it being the 3rd tape out, but i do know how long it takes to roll out a product after a tape out, i would say aug-sep at the earliest as well, and thats only if this revision of the chip has better yields.