ATI does Physx

[SpeedZealot369]

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTA3OSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

I really like the fact that a cheaper video card can do physics processing instead of a $300 doller ppu card.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

sounds like a winner. Look out Ageia

 

[darkswordsman17]

This is starting to get interesting.

Another frontier for competition between ATi and nVidia. It'll be interesting to see how their physics solutions pan out.

I have a feeling quad SLI will become a lot more viable if they had at least one GPU doing physics work. Now, they just need to get started on dimensional audio processing, and we might have something. Maybe one GPU doing physics work and one processing the new objects that results from the physics is what will be needed for a worthwhile physics experience in games.

I still think they would be better off developing a more dedicated physics processor, but this is just the start of things, so we'll have to see where things go from here. Then again, it might be better to have, in this case, 4 GPUs and then let the game developers dynamically balance how each one gets used.

 

[the Chase]

Looking forward to seeing some demos of what they can do with this. Wow- 3 vid cards in a box. The one thing that bugged me is they state that this solution is going to be limited to "effects physics" only, and they make it sound like a new, great feature! HardOCP has a dedicated forum slot for physics discusions, so they know the difference. Ehh, they made ATI happy anyway....

 

[T9D]

I honestly dont think it's going to be needed anymore. With people being able to play cellfactor with no physX card but just using their dual core CPU. Now imagine what conroe will be able to do and then with 4 cores! CPU's are going to be just fine for physics. I know I know, in theory people say a CPU cant do the same calculations. But seeing people play cell factor with all those pysics going on and just the current CPUs seems to prove otherwise.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: tk109
I honestly dont think it's going to be needed anymore. With people being able to play cellfactor with no physX card but just using their dual core CPU. Now imagine what conroe will be able to do and then with 4 cores! CPU's are going to be just fine for physics. I know I know, in theory people say a CPU cant do the same calculations. But seeing people play cell factor with all those pysics going on and just the current CPUs seems to prove otherwise.

M-E-M-O-R-Y B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

 

[Acanthus]

The implementation is the problem with most current titles in my opinion.

Forcing spawns of things for explosions is an enormous hit on performance.

Go into developer mode on any game, even old games, and force a group of things to spawn on the screen and view the min fps drop and frame hitching.

With proper implementation, blowing up a tank would blow the already drawn pieces apart and modify them accordingly, not spawn 100 random chunks of crap slaughtering the fps.

 

[F1shF4t]

Let me guess u have to run cross fire with that. What would be better if u could just chuck in a second card in the pcie slot and get it to do physics.
Then i would just put my 6600gt in the bottom slot and let it do physics while 7800gt is rendering frames. i guess that wont happen

 

[framerateuk]

I think this, in conjunction with a dual core cpu will work quite well. I like the idea of using anolder graphics card for th physics calculations.

Also, the fact that it accelerates Havok means theres already a user base from all the havok enabled games. Instead of having to use some special api.

 

[SpeedZealot369]

Originally posted by: Dark Cupcake
Let me guess u have to run cross fire with that. What would be better if u could just chuck in a second card in the pcie slot and get it to do physics.
Then i would just put my 6600gt in the bottom slot and let it do physics while 7800gt is rendering frames. i guess that wont happen

Nah you don't have to run crossfire at all.

I like this idea much more then what AEGIA has to offer...

 

[biostud]

One thing is for sure. Don't buy a card for physcis until the software is ready.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: tk109
I honestly dont think it's going to be needed anymore. With people being able to play cellfactor with no physX card but just using their dual core CPU. Now imagine what conroe will be able to do and then with 4 cores! CPU's are going to be just fine for physics. I know I know, in theory people say a CPU cant do the same calculations. But seeing people play cell factor with all those pysics going on and just the current CPUs seems to prove otherwise.

M-E-M-O-R-Y B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

P-C-I-e-B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

Remember, you still have to move all the physics data to the "physics" card via PCIe, and then from the phsyics card to the Video card, probably by way of system memory and... yup... PCIe. It's still slower than using a dedicated CPU core for phsyics. The problem is, the CPU cores aren't optimized for the kind of things phsyics needs... yet.

 

[skooma]

Originally posted by: SpeedZealot369

Originally posted by: Dark Cupcake
Let me guess u have to run cross fire with that. What would be better if u could just chuck in a second card in the pcie slot and get it to do physics.
Then i would just put my 6600gt in the bottom slot and let it do physics while 7800gt is rendering frames. i guess that wont happen

Nah you don't have to run crossfire at all.

I like this idea much more then what AEGIA has to offer...

That was my question as well. You're sure about that? It wouldn't surprise me that this "trilogy" or whatever they call it is just marketing and it would run with a single card + another for physics, it just wasn't stated that way that I saw.

 

[the Chase]

Originally posted by: biostud
One thing is for sure. Don't buy a card for physcis until the software is ready.

Good point. I'm still waiting to run a 64 bit program (or game) on my A64 and actually see a performance improvement.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

i just want to know if 2 cards can do this instead of three. i know its already asked above but if it REQUIRES crossfire than another cards then ..... LAME. who here..even here in AT forums has a mobo with 3 pci-E sl;ots much 3 pci-e slotys with crossfire.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: tk109
I honestly dont think it's going to be needed anymore. With people being able to play cellfactor with no physX card but just using their dual core CPU. Now imagine what conroe will be able to do and then with 4 cores! CPU's are going to be just fine for physics. I know I know, in theory people say a CPU cant do the same calculations. But seeing people play cell factor with all those pysics going on and just the current CPUs seems to prove otherwise.

M-E-M-O-R-Y B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

P-C-I-e-B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

Remember, you still have to move all the physics data to the "physics" card via PCIe, and then from the phsyics card to the Video card, probably by way of system memory and... yup... PCIe. It's still slower than using a dedicated CPU core for phsyics. The problem is, the CPU cores aren't optimized for the kind of things phsyics needs... yet.

A-M-D-T-O-R-R-E-N-Z-A-H-T-X-s-l-o-t

I like this game, I think I just won.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: tk109
I honestly dont think it's going to be needed anymore. With people being able to play cellfactor with no physX card but just using their dual core CPU. Now imagine what conroe will be able to do and then with 4 cores! CPU's are going to be just fine for physics. I know I know, in theory people say a CPU cant do the same calculations. But seeing people play cell factor with all those pysics going on and just the current CPUs seems to prove otherwise.

M-E-M-O-R-Y B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

P-C-I-e-B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

Remember, you still have to move all the physics data to the "physics" card via PCIe, and then from the phsyics card to the Video card, probably by way of system memory and... yup... PCIe. It's still slower than using a dedicated CPU core for phsyics. The problem is, the CPU cores aren't optimized for the kind of things phsyics needs... yet.

Right, 24+ dedicated cores on a 128 bit crossbar bus with GDDR3 clocked higher than the fastest available DDRII for system memory will be limited by PCI-E bandwidth. Since, you know, video cards arent even close to using PCI-16X with 256bit 1.8GHZ GDDRIII.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: tk109
I honestly dont think it's going to be needed anymore. With people being able to play cellfactor with no physX card but just using their dual core CPU. Now imagine what conroe will be able to do and then with 4 cores! CPU's are going to be just fine for physics. I know I know, in theory people say a CPU cant do the same calculations. But seeing people play cell factor with all those pysics going on and just the current CPUs seems to prove otherwise.

M-E-M-O-R-Y B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

P-C-I-e-B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

Remember, you still have to move all the physics data to the "physics" card via PCIe, and then from the phsyics card to the Video card, probably by way of system memory and... yup... PCIe. It's still slower than using a dedicated CPU core for phsyics. The problem is, the CPU cores aren't optimized for the kind of things phsyics needs... yet.

A-M-D-T-O-R-R-E-N-Z-A-H-T-X-s-l-o-t

I like this game, I think I just won.

There are no details on the plans for AMDs new hyped up product, or its performance.

an 8 core rig still wont have the kind of bandwidth needed to physics. Integrating it into graphics cards or getting dedicated cards is the only way to get the bandwidth needed.

In other words, youre an idiot.

 

[remagavon]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: tk109
I honestly dont think it's going to be needed anymore. With people being able to play cellfactor with no physX card but just using their dual core CPU. Now imagine what conroe will be able to do and then with 4 cores! CPU's are going to be just fine for physics. I know I know, in theory people say a CPU cant do the same calculations. But seeing people play cell factor with all those pysics going on and just the current CPUs seems to prove otherwise.

M-E-M-O-R-Y B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

P-C-I-e-B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

Remember, you still have to move all the physics data to the "physics" card via PCIe, and then from the phsyics card to the Video card, probably by way of system memory and... yup... PCIe. It's still slower than using a dedicated CPU core for phsyics. The problem is, the CPU cores aren't optimized for the kind of things phsyics needs... yet.

A-M-D-T-O-R-R-E-N-Z-A-H-T-X-s-l-o-t

I like this game, I think I just won.

There are no details on the plans for AMDs new hyped up product, or its performance.

an 8 core rig still wont have the kind of bandwidth needed to physics. Integrating it into graphics cards or getting dedicated cards is the only way to get the bandwidth needed.

In other words, youre an idiot.

Yup. And remember foks, the cpu even if it is multicore usually has to share the same memory bus as the rest of the system, so there's still a bottleneck there, especially when the other core that's running the game is trying to soak up as much ram as possible.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: tk109
I honestly dont think it's going to be needed anymore. With people being able to play cellfactor with no physX card but just using their dual core CPU. Now imagine what conroe will be able to do and then with 4 cores! CPU's are going to be just fine for physics. I know I know, in theory people say a CPU cant do the same calculations. But seeing people play cell factor with all those pysics going on and just the current CPUs seems to prove otherwise.

M-E-M-O-R-Y B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

P-C-I-e-B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H

Remember, you still have to move all the physics data to the "physics" card via PCIe, and then from the phsyics card to the Video card, probably by way of system memory and... yup... PCIe. It's still slower than using a dedicated CPU core for phsyics. The problem is, the CPU cores aren't optimized for the kind of things phsyics needs... yet.

Right, 24+ dedicated cores on a 128 bit crossbar bus with GDDR3 clocked higher than the fastest available DDRII for system memory will be limited by PCI-E bandwidth. Since, you know, video cards arent even close to using PCI-16X with 256bit 1.8GHZ GDDRIII.

Well, to be fair, neither is the A64 or X2 anywhere close to being bandwidth limited. It all depends on what kind of physics you're planning to run, and the AGEIA solution isnt without it's own faults and limitations. If you're gonna try to emulate a very large partcle system on anything besides a programmable gpu, you're guaranteed to hit so many brick walls in terms of both bandwidth and latency, that you might as well have a physics decellerator running on the pci bus.

Then there's also the issue of communication length and driver overhead. If geometry data has to be transferred from the cpu to the ppu then back to the cpu and finally to the gpu, I can see another problem developing real fast if you try process the large amounts of geometry physics as AGEIA claims it can do. OTOH, if you could have direct communication from the ppu to the gpu, that would be a more ideal solution from a performance perspective, and I think this is where Ati is headed with their physics solution.

 

[Polish3d]

Sweet 3 video cards now. And here I was just lamenting today about how disappointed I was only getting to shell out half a grand for one.

 

[McArra]

ATi physics look too simpe, I don't think it's near Ageia in terms of power.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: tk109
I honestly dont think it's going to be needed anymore. With people being able to play cellfactor with no physX card but just using their dual core CPU. Now imagine what conroe will be able to do and then with 4 cores! CPU's are going to be just fine for physics. I know I know, in theory people say a CPU cant do the same calculations. But seeing people play cell factor with all those pysics going on and just the current CPUs seems to prove otherwise.

I dont know, it looked like they were getting 13fps with their dual core CPU's. Not exactly impressive if you ask me.