Originally posted by: akugami
Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Oh well, now we know who employs ackmed, 5150joker and the rest of the fanatics...
I did say when the AEG fuss was being raised that the truth would eventually leak out, didn't I?
What truth? Look at the date of the press release, May 23, 2006. Unless ATI went into the past in a time machine after this announcement to hire Ackmed, Joker, etc.
If they employ viral marketers I think this will be as successful as nVidia's viral marketing and just as with nVidia's viral marketing. One must remember that it was nVidia hemming and hawwing and not giving out info on the exact relationship between nVidia and AEG that started the investigations. If ATI is more open about it's relationship with this new company then there will be less criticism but I for one do not and will never agree with viral marketing. Score another minus for ATI on this one. I consider it a bad move.
It's been known for quite some time ATi used PR focus groups, just noone could pin down exactly who it was until now. ATi has only recently *publically* signed on with these guys, who knows just how farback their "backroom deal" no body was supposed to know about goes though? Some would say at least as far back as digitalwanderer getting a 9700 and spamming every forum known to man. Probably even further back than that - JDPC from 3dnow.net springs instantly to mind for some reason...
Let's not name names about who does what shall we. This is just playing the blame game. And if were were to go by past posts, I've seen you post negative stuff about ATI that equally applies to nVidia with available proof. Somehow it's excusable for nVidia but not for ATI. You are accusing Ackmed and 5150Joker of being ATI marketing shills much like Rollo and co without proof. Or in the absense solid proof, post why you feel this is so. I mean, with Rollo we had the next thing to real proof until he came out considering his posting style. Always negative to ATI but more than that, he excused similar actions on the part of nVidia that he doesn't for ATI. He constantly harps on issues with ATI but as soon as an issue with nVidia is brought up, it's not important because said bug, feature or performance issue is not in a game he plays. And anyone who says a $800-1000 video card that is suppose to retail for much less a good investment is obviously trying to sell you something.
To reiterate. I completely disagree with this move on ATI's part. I said during the whole nVidia AEG thing that I will criticise ATI if they go this route and I'm true to my word. I think this will be successful for them as it was for nVidia considering the average consumer is an idiot.
I still think they make good products and considering the price performance of when I got my X1900XT, it was the best bang for the buck at the time. Even with the AEG thing I seriously considered a 7900GT but the price was just way too high at the time considering their inability to properly supply enough cards so I wouldn't say I'm forswearing ATI products. As with every single video card purchase to date, I will buy what's the best bang for the buck at the time I'm ready to upgrade.
Originally posted by: akugami
Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Oh well, now we know who employs ackmed, 5150joker and the rest of the fanatics...
I did say when the AEG fuss was being raised that the truth would eventually leak out, didn't I?
What truth? Look at the date of the press release, May 23, 2006. Unless ATI went into the past in a time machine after this announcement to hire Ackmed, Joker, etc.
If they employ viral marketers I think this will be as successful as nVidia's viral marketing and just as with nVidia's viral marketing. One must remember that it was nVidia hemming and hawwing and not giving out info on the exact relationship between nVidia and AEG that started the investigations. If ATI is more open about it's relationship with this new company then there will be less criticism but I for one do not and will never agree with viral marketing. Score another minus for ATI on this one. I consider it a bad move.
Like what?Originally posted by: Gstanfor
There is quite a lot I disagree with nVIDIA about, and when I do, I post about it, both here and on other forums.
They are? Perhaps you can show me the press release from ATI? High Road announcing it, is no different than AEG listing nvidia as a client at their website. If the statement doesn't come from ATI itself, they aren't being open about it.Originally posted by: Bull Dog
Hell, at least they are open about it.
There are no moral corporations, period.
Some people just love to have sunshine blown up their butts? I have always been confused by consumers use of terms like ethics and morals in regards to corporate entities. They only observe what they must, for legal reasons, and not even legality always stops them. The fact that some buy into the corporations propaganda, is testament to how effective it is.Originally posted by: nullpointerus
There are no moral corporations, period.
I've never understood why people expect corporations to be moral. I mean, the fact that they are legally classified as persons is just a technicality intended to overcome perceived limitations in our legal system. Yet people persist in saying corporation X or Y is good or evil and insist on them donating to charities and political causes, issuing statements about tragedies, and taking moral stands on social issues.
Originally posted by: nullpointerus
There are no moral corporations, period.
I've never understood why people expect corporations to be moral. I mean, the fact that they are legally classified as persons is just a technicality intended to overcome perceived limitations in our legal system. Yet people persist in saying corporation X or Y is good or evil and insist on them donating to charities and political causes, issuing statements about tragedies, and taking moral stands on social issues.
It is your money brudda It is definitely wise to be an informed consumer, but be careful, even the term inferior can be relative, and spun with propaganda to "win your heart&mind"Originally posted by: the Chase
While I don't really expect corporations to be "moral", I think if enough of their customers realize that a certain company is always using smoke and mirrors and fancy marketing tricks to sell a somewhat inferior product, they will lose marketshare. For me, I think I'll keep track of ATI and Nvidia's lame "starting at 50% bar graphs" and buy from whichever uses the least of such a blunt marketing tool.
It isn't! That's why they hired a company with the genetic "moral flexibilty" or :gift: they lack.Originally posted by: skooma
:laugh:
I remember when all the AT'ers who were so outraged at the aeg/nv realtionship took comfort in ATI proclaiming that it wasn't in their DNA LMAO
Originally posted by: munky
They're taking a page out of the Nvidia and Intel playbook: why waste money on expensive hardware that nobody buys when you can make cheap mediocre hardware and get sales by marketing? That's too bad, because after a certain point, the more marketing a company does, the more BS slips between the lines, and the less likely I am to buy their products.
Originally posted by: josh6079
Originally posted by: redbox
what I find funny is ATI has a good card and everyone has said that marketing is the only thing they are missing, and they need to listen to Nvidia and Intel more. Now when they do it everyone is angry about it. You can't have it both ways people.
QFT!! LOL!
Originally posted by: akugami
Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Oh well, now we know who employs ackmed, 5150joker and the rest of the fanatics...
I did say when the AEG fuss was being raised that the truth would eventually leak out, didn't I?
What truth? Look at the date of the press release, May 23, 2006. Unless ATI went into the past in a time machine after this announcement to hire Ackmed, Joker, etc.
If they employ viral marketers I think this will be as successful as nVidia's viral marketing and just as with nVidia's viral marketing. One must remember that it was nVidia hemming and hawwing and not giving out info on the exact relationship between nVidia and AEG that started the investigations. If ATI is more open about it's relationship with this new company then there will be less criticism but I for one do not and will never agree with viral marketing. Score another minus for ATI on this one. I consider it a bad move.
It's been known for quite some time ATi used PR focus groups, just noone could pin down exactly who it was until now. ATi has only recently *publically* signed on with these guys, who knows just how farback their "backroom deal" no body was supposed to know about goes though? Some would say at least as far back as digitalwanderer getting a 9700 and spamming every forum known to man. Probably even further back than that - JDPC from 3dnow.net springs instantly to mind for some reason...
All companies have focus groups. Not all companies have viral marketers. However, in todays market, it's more and more likely for companies to hire viral marketers. There is however nothing wrong with focus groups. Repeat, there is nothing wrong with focus groups. The purpose of a focus group is to guage the opinion of certain things like new names for a product, or whether there is public interest in a product which usually involves trying out the product in question. Focus groups do not do viral marketing. Viral marketers are marketing shills disguised as normal users giving out advertisements. It seems almost like lying to me which is why I hate it.
Let's not name names about who does what shall we. This is just playing the blame game. And if were were to go by past posts, I've seen you post negative stuff about ATI that equally applies to nVidia with available proof. Somehow it's excusable for nVidia but not for ATI. You are accusing Ackmed and 5150Joker of being ATI marketing shills much like Rollo and co without proof. Or in the absense solid proof, post why you feel this is so. I mean, with Rollo we had the next thing to real proof until he came out considering his posting style. Always negative to ATI but more than that, he excused similar actions on the part of nVidia that he doesn't for ATI. He constantly harps on issues with ATI but as soon as an issue with nVidia is brought up, it's not important because said bug, feature or performance issue is not in a game he plays. And anyone who says a $800-1000 video card that is suppose to retail for much less a good investment is obviously trying to sell you something.
To reiterate. I completely disagree with this move on ATI's part. I said during the whole nVidia AEG thing that I will criticise ATI if they go this route and I'm true to my word. I think this will be successful for them as it was for nVidia considering the average consumer is an idiot.
I still think they make good products and considering the price performance of when I got my X1900XT, it was the best bang for the buck at the time. Even with the AEG thing I seriously considered a 7900GT but the price was just way too high at the time considering their inability to properly supply enough cards so I wouldn't say I'm forswearing ATI products. As with every single video card purchase to date, I will buy what's the best bang for the buck at the time I'm ready to upgrade.
From myperspective it is of no consequence how the campaign is run. There shouldn't have been a witch hunt last time, there shouldn't be one now, or in the future. It is simply another excuse for those with an agenda to prosecute it.Originally posted by: geo1
I posted about this at B3D several hours before it appeared here (if I'm reading the times right).
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31020
"viral marketing" covers a very wide range of activities, not all of them offensive in my view. And, yes, I said the same thing re AEG. . .I was one of those who refused to throw "viral marketing" under the bus generically.
Transparency is the key, in my view. Will HRC/ATI be better that way? Too soon to tell. As I said at B3D, a good start with these High Road people would be in they actually show up in the community and talk about what they are doing, and what they won't do, rather than have to be dragged into the light as was the case with AEG.
Originally posted by: munky
They're taking a page out of the Nvidia and Intel playbook: why waste money on expensive hardware that nobody buys when you can make cheap mediocre hardware and get sales by marketing? That's too bad, because after a certain point, the more marketing a company does, the more BS slips between the lines, and the less likely I am to buy their products.
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
From myperspective it is of no consequence how the campaign is run. There shouldn't have been a witch hunt last time, there shouldn't be one now, or in the future. It is simply another excuse for those with an agenda to prosecute it.Originally posted by: geo1
I posted about this at B3D several hours before it appeared here (if I'm reading the times right).
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31020
"viral marketing" covers a very wide range of activities, not all of them offensive in my view. And, yes, I said the same thing re AEG. . .I was one of those who refused to throw "viral marketing" under the bus generically.
Transparency is the key, in my view. Will HRC/ATI be better that way? Too soon to tell. As I said at B3D, a good start with these High Road people would be in they actually show up in the community and talk about what they are doing, and what they won't do, rather than have to be dragged into the light as was the case with AEG.
Nothing corporations do from a proaganda standpoint offends me, because I expect them to do whatever they believe they can "get away with". Cynical? Yes, but that cynicism has repeatedly proven to be justified.
"Transparency" will only give the propaganda machine a positive spin option, since the vilification of the AEG agents was so well excuted. I sincerely believe there are viral marketers with a pro-ATI agenda already among us, and evey other major manu too. I find it difficult to except it is all just pom pom shaking, perhaps because that is so much more pitiable than being "on the take" in my mind.
:thumbsup: x 100Originally posted by: Topweasel
Where is the blind hatred, where is is the I am not going to buy another ATI video card. where is desire for blood. I never had a problem with Viral marketing I made that pretty apparent before, but you did, and you screamed about it loud. Why now is is only less then desirable. Beofre it was everyone but ATI and it was horribly wrong, but now since its just plain everybody its more OK. Are your standards really that weak, so weak that all it takes is one company to say it okay for you to no longer think its Violently wrong.
Sadly this going to come off as me trying to pick a fight. To a degree it is. I saw some pretty sickening mud slinging in the AEG threads, and the only thing more sickening is those same players attempting to brush it off their shoulders because it appears their guys did the wrong thing last. You have not earned the right to come out of this smelling like roses after the abuse you gave others for the exact same thing. I can't sling mud at ATI because I understand and respect their decision as some one who has no issue with these forms of marketing. You don't get that luxury.