ATI + LCD @ 120hz causes jittering/distortion problem

tihifnis

Member
Sep 30, 2009
39
0
0
Edit 3: I know what the problem is now, but I'll leave the original text, in case other users can benefit from it. I have also tried a variety of fixes, before I found out that the problem was ATI's drivers.

To summarize:
Nvidia users have no problems. They have no distortion and they can use 60, 75, 85, 100, 110 and 120hz in all resolutions.

ATI users have problems with distortion in 2D mode, and some also in 3D mode with certain gfx settings. Quakelive here being a fine example. A few users have success in both 2D and 3D mode. ATI users are also stuck with 120hz in native resolution in Windows 7, while it works in XP.

The ways to fix it is either:
- Change to an Nvidia card
- Run with two monitors attached
- Increase 2D clock rate
- Use 60hz on the desktop.

The distortion problem can be seen here. Sorry about the sound but I couldn't find a way to remove audio on youtube.
(Esreality thread)


Original text
Hi, I just changed from CRT to the new 2233rz. The problem is that 120hz only works on the desktop, if I'm doing nothing. If I double click on an icon, open the calender or perform just about any action and the screen starts to blink. I've tried various solutions and many different drivers but to no luck. To the users that have a 2233RZ, VX2265 or 2268 screen, do you experience any problems like this or know what the problem could be?

My system is the following:

E7300
Sapphire HD4830
Sea Sonic S12II-500 watt. (So I'm positive I've enough watt and amp)
Windows 7 X64

I have googled for ages now and tried a variety of fixes.
- Changed the power cable since apparently it helped two users with a similar problem, granted they had regular 60hz screens.
- Under- and overclocked my ATI hard, since that helped a lot of people with similar problems, though they had also 60hz screens.
- Forced the graphic card fan to run at 100% to eliminate heat as a problem, even though it's always at 39 degrees in idle.
- Changed port on the graphic card.
- Checked I really had a dual-link cable.
- Tried the "alternate DVI operational mode" and "reduce DVI frequency..." settings.
- Enabled LCD overdrive and tried all possibilities here.
- Installed the 2233rz driver on the Samsung website and the one on the CD.
- Reinstalled Windows and tried Catalyst 9.7, 9.8, 9.10, 9.11, 9.12. No luck what so ever.

It's visible both in-game and on the desktop. I'm beginning to believe it's a problem with the ATI HDxxxx cards or drivers, from the threads on the ATI forum.

I've mailed Sapphires support, since Powercolor cards seemed prone to produce the problem on regular 60hz lcd screens. A new BIOS was released by Powercolor that supposedly fixed it.

Edit:
I got it working. I don't know who I should blame the most, Microsoft, Samsung or ATI, but ATIs GPU scaling isn't working that great in Windows 7. I got it re-enabled and enabled LCD overdrive as well, and now the screen works perfectly in 120hz! Sadly I can't use 120hz in other resolutions but at least I got a smooth picture now.

The fix is the following:

- Set your resolution to anything below your usual resolution.
- Hit the CCC
- Top left, click "Graphics", and "Desktops & Displays" on the pulldown menu.
- For your desired display, click the little black triangle in the bottom part of the screen, on the LITTLE picture, not the BIG one, and click "Configure".
- The scaling options will now be selectable, check the "Enable GPU scaling" box and select "Maintain aspect ratio".
- Change the resolution to 1680x1050 and 120hz, but NOT with CCC but instead use Windows. If you use CCC, you can't go back to GPU scaling.
- Enable LCD overdrive and adjust the slider. At first I selected 110 and then the jittering disappeared. Then I turned it back to 100 for kicks, and it still worked.
- Even though the before mentioned scaling controls are greyed out and you can actually see "Scale image to full panel size" grey-selected, don't worry.
- Go play your games!

Edit 2:
Looks like I celebrated a bit too early. As soon as the LCD overdrive window was removed, the blinking started to come back. I opened LCD overdrive again and the picture was perfect again...it seemed. From time to time it would show a slight blinking but it wasn't a lot. But even with LCD overdrive running in the background, it's not possible to play. At least I think I've found the culprit or one of the major reasons at least. Now ATI just need to fix it.
 
Last edited:

T2k

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2004
1,664
5
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Wait, I was under the impression the NV 3D Vision utilizes 120Hz...
 

smartpatrol

Senior member
Mar 8, 2006
870
0
0
tihifnis, I'm having the EXACT same problem with the 2233rz and my new Sapphire Radeon 5870.

I just got off the phone with Samsung tech support and this guy tried to tell me that 120hz is only for 3D, otherwise it's only 60hz. I told him that's incorrect, that I just want to run 120hz in 2D mode. His response was "you can send it in for repair if you want, but if they don't have any problems with it at 60hz they're going to send it back to you and say 'no problem found.'"

I've tried just about everything you have. Multiple Catalyst driver versions, tried the drivers on the Samsung CD and from the website, tried a different dual-link cable, playing with GPU clocks, etc.

One other possible hint: When GPU-Z is running, the screen flickers like once per second even if nothing else is going on. Might be due to the GPU being "polled" or whatever.
 

tihifnis

Member
Sep 30, 2009
39
0
0
Sorry about the large youtube videos, didn't see it was fullscreen but I fixed it now =)
"Glad" do see I'm not alone with the problem. What a poor reply by Samsung by the way. Even though I don't think they are to blame, they should still be more interested in trouble shooting. I hope we can get a fix from ATI soon, since I'm 99% positive that they are to blame.
 

Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
2,076
611
136
Do you have a dual-link DVI cable?

A single link one won't have the bandwidth for 120hz.

Originally posted by: T2k
So it seems I was right, it's indeed NV 3D Vision-only...

PS: maybe I'm still in the wrong: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...amsung-sm2233rz_5.html

This seems to imply it should work...

It has nothing to do with 3D vision, other then 120hz LCD being a requirement for it's operation.

It's just a monitor that works at 120hz instead of the standard 60hz. This is a good thing as most of our graphics cards go faster then 60fps so we get a more responsive and smoother display (according to the reviews).
 

smartpatrol

Senior member
Mar 8, 2006
870
0
0
Yes I tried two different dual-link DVI cables, and I am 100% sure they are dual-link.

UPDATE: I tried plugging in to the other DVI port. I still get distortion, but a different type. Whereas before it would put a bunch of flickering horizontal lines through the image when something was moving, this port would make sort of a "ghost image" flicker over the whole screen for maybe one frame. Like an image of my whole screen but offset far to the left.

On this port though, when I set it down to 100Hz, the problem is MOSTLY gone. So far all I get is an occasional horizontal line that flickers across the very top row of pixels on my display. It's still an annoyance, but at least I can live with this while waiting for a solution.
 

T2k

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2004
1,664
5
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Originally posted by: Dribble
Do you have a dual-link DVI cable?

A single link one won't have the bandwidth for 120hz.

Originally posted by: T2k
So it seems I was right, it's indeed NV 3D Vision-only...

PS: maybe I'm still in the wrong: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...amsung-sm2233rz_5.html

This seems to imply it should work...

It has nothing to do with 3D vision, other then 120hz LCD being a requirement for it's operation.

It's just a monitor that works at 120hz instead of the standard 60hz. This is a good thing as most of our graphics cards go faster then 60fps so we get a more responsive and smoother display (according to the reviews).

I got that part, my assumption was that DVI does not support 120Hz and their proprietary connector does - then I realized it's 1680 only so it must work, l;et alone dual-link DVI...
 

tihifnis

Member
Sep 30, 2009
39
0
0
I just got the best reply from Sapphire.

No , only CRT monitor can adjust up to 120hz. Actually , it also might cause by CRT monitor that cannot sync the signal from VGA card. The best way is to test with Samsung 2233RZ in 60 or 75Hz (LCD monitor) we think you will not see the problem anymore. Thanks.

 

tihifnis

Member
Sep 30, 2009
39
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0
I completely forgot to ask, but what brand is your ATI card?

Edit: Nevermind, I just saw it now Sapphire just like me.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,912
2,130
126
It's probably not the same problem but I get that same sort of jittering/flickering with my Intel GMA laptop on Win7 X64...but for me it's completely random.
 

Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
2,076
611
136
So does anyone have a 120hz LCD monitor and an ati card that works?

It's a pretty major flaw if a 5870 can't even drive a 16*10 120hz display. I know that 120hz LCD's are uncommon right now, but in a year or two they'll all be 120hz as it's the sort of thing that won't cost LCD makers much to add once the technology is standard.

If many (even all) AMD cards can't drive those displays there'll be trouble ahead.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Set my 2233RZ to 120MHz. No flickering with a GTX295 in 2D. Or 3D. Watched video, tried to duplicate. No dice.
 

tihifnis

Member
Sep 30, 2009
39
0
0
I just got a reply from Samsung, that claims it's an ATI driver problem. Incredible that they still haven't been able to fix it.
 

Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,866
3
0
I have a 2233rz and a 4890 and everything is fine over here; can it run apps @ 1680x1050 @ 120hz? If not i would start to point fingers at the videocard

My hunch though is it is a vcard problem; ATI has so many problems that fly under the radar of everyone its ridiculous, then i go into a "nvidia vs ATI drivers" thread and get labeled an Nvidiast because u cant disable vsync on d3d 6- games on win 7 with an ATI card, but my 7800gtx works perfectly

I hope something gets fixed for you guys soon because this monitor truly is the spanks once u get 120hz, not as good as a crt @ 240hz; but its also 1680x1050 vs some bs like 640x480
 

tihifnis

Member
Sep 30, 2009
39
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0
What Cat are you using? And what OS? Perhaps the issue is entirely OS and Catalyst dependant though I doubt it.
 

tihifnis

Member
Sep 30, 2009
39
0
0
Ok, I want to find out what the problem is. Could all of you that have a working system with a Samsung 2233RZ please post the following:

Brand and model and manufacturer of the card
O/S and whether it's 32 or 64bit
Version of Catalyst driver.
Do you only have 120hz in the native resolution?
Optionally it would be great to compare info from Moninfo.



For me it's this.
ATI Sapphire 4830 512mb with HDMI
Windows 7 X64
Cat 9.9 (tried 9.7 to 9.10)
Yes, can't get anything but 60hz in other resolutions.

Monitor
Model name............... SyncMaster
Manufacturer............. Samsung
Plug and Play ID......... SAM04EA
Serial number............ H9XS600334
Manufacture date......... 2009, ISO week 25
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. 480 x 300 mm (22,3 in)
Power management......... Active off/sleep
Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
-------------------------
DDC/CI................... Supported
MCCS revison............. 2.0
Display technology....... TFT
Controller............... Genesis 0x1000
Firmware revision........ 0.1
Firmware flags........... 0x1
Active power on time..... Not supported
Current frequency........ 16711,68kHz, 0,00Hz
 

Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,866
3
0
Win 7x64
cat 9.7; ill update to the newest and see if it messes anything up lol...I thought that each card had its own driver version though; so drivers were slightly different from lets say my 4890 to ur 5870/4830, but thats seems like a lot of work so im prolly just imagining things

*edit*
where is this moninfo utility u mentioned; i googled it, but my internet is being slow from downloading new drivers so i kinda didnt care that much
 

Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,866
3
0
ATI XFX 4890 1gb 859/980
Windows 7 x64 RC
Cat 9.7
Everything works perfectly (fyi 120hz only works at 1680x1050 60@all other res )

Model name............... SyncMaster
Manufacturer............. Samsung
Plug and Play ID......... SAM04EA
Serial number............ H1LQC00907
Manufacture date......... 2008, ISO week 50
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. 480 x 300 mm (22.3 in)
Power management......... Active off/sleep
Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
-------------------------
DDC/CI................... Supported
MCCS revison............. 2.0
Display technology....... TFT
Controller............... Genesis 0x1000
Firmware revision........ 0.1
Firmware flags........... 0x1
Active power on time..... Not supported
Current frequency........ 16711.68kHz, 0.00Hz
 

Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,866
3
0
Moved to 9.9 and no changes... first time i was hoping a new driver would feck something up; if u live close to az/usa and u got me in a really really good mood i might ship my 7800gtx to you and see if that fixes it
 
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