ATI & NVIDIA-based Graphics Cards Will Have an Bug in Half-Life 2? **Updated 7/23**

[SiskoDS9]

Ouch, Nv has sure had a bad month PR wise. First the Omega Driver fiasco and now this. Does anyone else get the feeling that this is not the last problem we hear about on NV.

Guess my next card will be a ATI for sure now as HL is my favorite game and I want nothing but the best.

 

[Adul]

Originally posted by: SiskoDS9
Ouch, Nv has sure had a bad month PR wise. First the Omega Driver fiasco and now this. Does anyone else get the feeling that this is not the last problem we hear about on NV.

Guess my next card will be a ATI for sure now as HL is my favorite game and I want nothing but the best.

got to see how it runs first.

 

[Corporate Thug]

i love my nforce 2 board but lets summarize what nvidia has done is the recent past:

pro: releases nforce2

con: 5800/5800 ultra
driver "optimization"
this new HL2 thing
xbox 2 goin to ATi

 

[Wingznut]

You guys really need to slow down and read the info.

• First off, realize that it's all second-hand information that was posted on a msg board from someone who claims to have had an email conversation with a Valve developer. (No, that doesn't necessarily mean that the above information is false... But I can't count how many times false information has been posted on a msg board, and others take it as fact.)
• Second, this is a DX9 problem that affects all DX9 cards.
• Third, the developer (allegedly) stated that there was "hope" that they will be able to fix it for the ATi cards. Definitely not a certainty.

Look, I'm not saying that this news isn't true... It's just that many of you are jumping to all sorts of conclusions with VERY little basis.

 

[Nebor]

Wouldn't it be funny if no cards could be made to run right for it, so everyone really would have to buy a new vid card to play HL2....

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Wouldn't it be funny if no cards could be made to run right for it, so everyone really would have to buy a new vid card to play HL2....

that would not be funny

 

[Nebor]

I don't expect to be able to run it with my video card... but I'm waiting for the week of it's release to buy my new vid card. But now I'm totally lost as to what to buy. I don't want a Radeon, under any circumstances...The day I buy a Radeon will be the day I buy an AMD processor.

But if I can't run HL2 on an NVIDIA card... hrmph. I think I'll just wait for NVIDIA to come out with a new card. Playing HL2 a month later will still be playing HL2... just a month later.

 

[BaboonGuy]

Originally posted by: BD231

Originally posted by: BaboonGuy
bye bye nvidisuck

Nice nforce 2 your running there dipsh*t.

oh. yea.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

I almost think this doesn't matter because these cards will have a good enough workout running HL2 w/o FSAA...

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Wouldn't it be funny if no cards could be made to run right for it, so everyone really would have to buy a new vid card to play HL2....

That'd make me shed tears of joy if HL2 drove every gamer to buy DX9 compliant hardware.
[/fantasy]

 

[0roo0roo]

no biggie at all. 99% of people probably will have to turn features off to play the game anyhow with current medium level cards. by the time i upgrade a new gen of 9.1 cards will be out very few games i can run with fsaa

 

[Tbirdkid]

I don't expect to be able to run it with my video card... but I'm waiting for the week of it's release to buy my new vid card. But now I'm totally lost as to what to buy. I don't want a Radeon, under any circumstances...The day I buy a Radeon will be the day I buy an AMD processor.

People in denial still... I just dont get it... I wish people would just give me the extra money they are wasting on these processors and the expensive cards so I can live. Im poor... LOL

 

[txxxx]

As useful as FSAA can be, I only notice the edge's when im not focused in the game itself, so its kinda irrelevant.

 

[Nebor]

People in denial still... I just dont get it... I wish people would just give me the extra money they are wasting on these processors and the expensive cards so I can live. Im poor... LOL

You'll get that check in the mail about the same time those hungry kids in africa get that breadcrust that I shouldn't throw away. Wastefulness is the American way, get with it!

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: shady06
i love my nforce 2 board but lets summarize what nvidia has done is the recent past:

pro: releases nforce2

con: 5800/5800 ultra
driver "optimization"
this new HL2 thing
xbox 2 goin to ATi

I think its funny that one game, that isnt out yet, is RUMORED to have an anti aliasing problem, with all cards. And NVIDIA takes heat for it.

Lets not discuss anything about how many driver revisions it has taken to make the 95xx 96xx 97xx 98xx series working properly. I really like both companies. But this is just about retarded talk. Lucky for the rest of us the fanbois should be gone soon, unless they can afford to keep replacing their drool clogged keyboards.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Nebor
I don't expect to be able to run it with my video card... but I'm waiting for the week of it's release to buy my new vid card. But now I'm totally lost as to what to buy. I don't want a Radeon, under any circumstances...The day I buy a Radeon will be the day I buy an AMD processor.

But if I can't run HL2 on an NVIDIA card... hrmph. I think I'll just wait for NVIDIA to come out with a new card. Playing HL2 a month later will still be playing HL2... just a month later.

GAH

Can't think how to express what I feel about this post.

It's only going to affect AA, and only in HL2 (thta we know of) so buying a high end card will still allow FSAA in other games, just not HL2, and if you're buying a card specifically for HL2 then you have too much money .

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
You guys really need to slow down and read the info.

• First off, realize that it's all second-hand information that was posted on a msg board from someone who claims to have had an email conversation with a Valve developer. (No, that doesn't necessarily mean that the above information is false... But I can't count how many times false information has been posted on a msg board, and others take it as fact.)
• Second, this is a DX9 problem that affects all DX9 cards.
• Third, the developer (allegedly) stated that there was "hope" that they will be able to fix it for the ATi cards. Definitely not a certainty.

Look, I'm not saying that this news isn't true... It's just that many of you are jumping to all sorts of conclusions with VERY little basis.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=142176#142176

 

[Wingznut]

Thanks for the link, NFS4...

I skimmed that thread, since I don't really have time to read the entire thread right now. But it looked like more of the same copy/paste from the other forums with the exception of this quote from a developer:

"... no current hardware will be able to do FSAA with HL2 as it
is now. We may be able to get FSAA working on ATI 9500-9800 somehow."

They don't sound as confident as the ATi fans in this thread that FSAA will work in HL2.

I'm certainly no programmer, but I don't understand why Valve would not develop HL2 so that FSAA could be implemented on current hardware. Maybe it's a trade-off for some other feature???

 

[DaveBaumann]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
Thanks for the link, NFS4...

I'm certainly no programmer, but I don't understand why Valve would not develop HL2 so that FSAA could be implemented on current hardware. Maybe it's a trade-off for some other feature???

FSAA is not really a feature developers are interested in at the moment. Because the board manufacturers have the control panel options to do it developers don't investigate it for their game as they probably believe its just something the users will do afterwards. Unfortunatly due to the nature of Force Multisampling and DX it has caused some issues (this and Splinter Cell), but because developers don't really look at it they get so far down a particular development path that they can't really back out when they get round to experimenting with it.

The other issue is that a new title like this, running with all the DX9 options, may require such a large resource on even the highest end modern boards that they think using FSAA would suck up even more performance - however, the point with Multisampling is that of the title is Shader limited in the first place FSAA shouldn't have the same performance hit as it would in non-shader titles.

WRT this issue, Valve have stated that technically the 9500-9800 hardware has the abilities to utilise AA but this is not currently exposed through DX9.0; it could be done with PS3.0 but thats not enabled you and R300 doesn't have full PS3 hardware so effectively ATI would have to circumvent part of DX to enable it and they may not want to for fear of annoying MS. Basically if you want it, lobby ATI (and potentially MS and Valve) so that they find a method of enabling it. It sounds as though this would be very difficult to achieve on GeForce FX hardware as, from what Valve say, GeForce FX doesn't contain this exact bit of hardware capability (and they'd have to do some other complicated workarounds in order for it to work).

 

[sharkeeper]

Software Dept: "This is clearly a hardware issue, send this to them to abate"
Hardware Dept: "Our parts are certified and tested when tapped out. SW doesn't know what they're talking about. This is a SW problem."
Software Dept: "You have a problem"
Hardware Dept: "You have a problem you can't fix"
Software Dept: "We're going on vacation see you in two weeks"
Hardware Dept: "Typical...never can stand up to their own mistakes"

Now we know what that weathervane that has a pointing finger instead of an arrow sitting on the boss' desk is used for!

-DAK-

 

[JungleMan1]

Originally posted by: shady06
i love my nforce 2 board but lets summarize what nvidia has done is the recent past:

pro: releases nforce2

con: 5800/5800 ultra
driver "optimization"
this new HL2 thing
xbox 2 goin to ATi

If you want my opinion the nForce2 sucks. Those stupid IDE drivers that shipped with it corrupted a bunch of my files and it took me yes 5 days to get SOME of them back (involved a lot of copying back and forth). Besides the fact that it's the fastest AMD chipset, the only good part about it is the PCI/AGP lock, and is the sole reason I replaced my 8K3A+ and 8KHA+ with two 8RDA+s.

The only reason I have an nForce2 is because the KT600 sucks even more, and the KT333 is outdated. Once A64 comes out I'll be buying AMD's chipset for it, unless VIA ships one with locked PCI/AGP then I'll consider that one as well, since I've never had an issue with VIA's KT266a or KT333 chipsets. Ever.

 

[rbV5]

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Mem

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a 9500NP, and I cannot play morrowind with cat 3.6s (cat 3.0s work though)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Weird,I can play Morrowind fine with CATs 3.6 and my Sapphire 9700NP,try Driver Cleaner 1.9.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There are a lot of people reporting these problems, and the only fix I have seen so far is going back to the old drivers.... But some people have never had the problem at all. BTW, I did dnld DriverCleaner from Rage3D. Didnt help

Morrowind working on both my rigs (AIW 7500/9700 pro) using Cat 3.6

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: shady06
i love my nforce 2 board but lets summarize what nvidia has done is the recent past:

pro: releases nforce2

con: 5800/5800 ultra
driver "optimization"
this new HL2 thing
xbox 2 goin to ATi

I think its funny that one game, that isnt out yet, is RUMORED to have an anti aliasing problem, with all cards. And NVIDIA takes heat for it.

Lets not discuss anything about how many driver revisions it has taken to make the 95xx 96xx 97xx 98xx series working properly. I really like both companies. But this is just about retarded talk. Lucky for the rest of us the fanbois should be gone soon, unless they can afford to keep replacing their drool clogged keyboards.

personally, i dont care how many driver revisions it takes to fix a problem as along as it is fixed

 

[NFS4]

I think its funny that one game, that isnt out yet, is RUMORED to have an anti aliasing problem, with all cards. And NVIDIA takes heat for it.

Well part of the reason is b/c it CAN possibly be fixed with ATI hardare. There is NO possible fix for NVIDIA hardware. And that SUCKS for people who just popped $500 down on a 5900U.

And as for it being rumor. Valve has already identified the problem and commented on it. Did you look at the links on HalfLife2.net, Rage3D and Beyond3D?

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: DaveBaumann

Originally posted by: Wingznut
Thanks for the link, NFS4...

I'm certainly no programmer, but I don't understand why Valve would not develop HL2 so that FSAA could be implemented on current hardware. Maybe it's a trade-off for some other feature???

FSAA is not really a feature developers are interested in at the moment. Because the board manufacturers have the control panel options to do it developers don't investigate it for their game as they probably believe its just something the users will do afterwards. Unfortunatly due to the nature of Force Multisampling and DX it has caused some issues (this and Splinter Cell), but because developers don't really look at it they get so far down a particular development path that they can't really back out when they get round to experimenting with it.

The other issue is that a new title like this, running with all the DX9 options, may require such a large resource on even the highest end modern boards that they think using FSAA would suck up even more performance - however, the point with Multisampling is that of the title is Shader limited in the first place FSAA shouldn't have the same performance hit as it would in non-shader titles.

WRT this issue, Valve have stated that technically the 9500-9800 hardware has the abilities to utilise AA but this is not currently exposed through DX9.0; it could be done with PS3.0 but thats not enabled you and R300 doesn't have full PS3 hardware so effectively ATI would have to circumvent part of DX to enable it and they may not want to for fear of annoying MS. Basically if you want it, lobby ATI (and potentially MS and Valve) so that they find a method of enabling it. It sounds as though this would be very difficult to achieve on GeForce FX hardware as, from what Valve say, GeForce FX doesn't contain this exact bit of hardware capability (and they'd have to do some other complicated workarounds in order for it to work).

Thanks, DaveB!

(Long time, no see... How've ya been??? )