Ati talks smack about Nvidia's 512mb gtx

[compgeek89]

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: GOREGRINDER

btw what he said actually makes sense and is in line with all the rumors going right now.

so you would rather believe rumors and BS instead of facts staring you right in the face as long as the rumor is more to your liking ,....over what reality dictates?

Show me the facts.

Sorry but I dont see the G80 released before the end of 06, if you have facts then please show them to me.

The G80 will be here by next summer, possibly late spring.

No, it wont be out in February if the r580 is...

 

[nts]

Originally posted by: compgeek89
The G80 will be here by next summer, possibly late spring.

How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[GOREGRINDER]

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: GOREGRINDER

btw what he said actually makes sense and is in line with all the rumors going right now.

so you would rather believe rumors and BS instead of facts staring you right in the face as long as the rumor is more to your liking ,....over what reality dictates?

Show me the facts.

Sorry but I dont see the G80 released before the end of 06, if you have facts then please show them to me.

i didnt say sqwat about G80,..lol for all i knwo or you know its a terd with a heatsink that outbenches my mom!!...reality is what really happens in the really real world and in teh really real world ATI never does exactly what they tell sites or the consumers,....all talk,,...thats called BS,....AT is to report what ATI says they are planning,...so trusting AT is fine,...as long as you trust AT more than ATI hopes,...

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: munky
I doubt the g80 will be ready for launch any time soon. If the r580 is launched in early 2006, then NV will have nothing to compete in the high end category. They may bring out a 90nm g70 refresh possibly with higher clocks, but if the rumors of the r580 architecture are true, whatever Nv has wont stand a chance. I expect the g80 to appear some time in the second half of 2006, as well as the r600.

LOL

Yeah, ATI has been doing this to them all year......errr...wait.......

Why stop there? lets bring up last year and the year before also while you're at it.

Dude, you have NO IDEA what nVidia is up to.

Here's an idea: Lets bump up the voltage on the 7800 to 120v, list phase change cooling and a 1000w PSU as minimum requirements, and sell the card for $1000 a piece!

Why do you even post FUD like this?

You mean this kind of FUD?

Rollo 2003: LOL, my 5800u gets 1000 points higher in 3dmark03 than a 9700p. Nv pwz Ati again!

Rollo 2005: LOL, I can run Chaos Theory with HDR and soft shadows at 1024x768 0x0x, and your primitive x800 cant. Nv + SM3 roxorz!

Rollo 2005: LOL, the 512gtx gets 5 fps higher in a game I dont play than the x1800. Nv just dominates Ati as usual!

 

[Reliant1]

So 1/1000 will fail after 1170 hours at 125C that good to know!


Maybe Nvidia should of developed the Xbox 360 cooling so there wouldn't be so many people complaining about it overheating

 

[stelleg151]

just in case anyone hasnt noticed, the author is wizzard from techpowerup....

for christs sake, the first page is called Act of Desparation, why is anyone taking this seriously.

Im pretty sure this wizzard guy just has too much time on his hands.

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: stelleg151
just in case anyone hasnt noticed, the author is wizzard from techpowerup....

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[stelleg151]

Originally posted by: fierydemise

Originally posted by: stelleg151
just in case anyone hasnt noticed, the author is wizzard from techpowerup....

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Its Bulls***. (not tea in china but the article)

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: stelleg151

Originally posted by: fierydemise

Originally posted by: stelleg151
just in case anyone hasnt noticed, the author is wizzard from techpowerup....

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Its Bulls***. (not tea in china but the article)

On what grounds?

 

[orwell84]

ATI is really scraping the bottom of the barrel. They should let the performance of their cards speak for themselves. Anyone who buys a $500 + graphics cards reads a lot of reviews and is not swayed by BS propoganda. I'm an ATI fan but I think their product release this generation just plain sucked. They should just shut TF up, suck it up and work on their next generation. I will consider them next time around if they can release a good card when it's relevant.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Some of the points they make are pretty valid, like the branching penalties and WHQL failings. Then again nVidia's slides trashing ATi are just as likely to contain valid criticisms about ATi's hardware.

Filter out the good bits and ignore the rubbish.

We have already had a thread on the supposed WHQL failings BFG10K - the claim is 100% FUD! Did you happen to notice the driver revision they base those claims on? Did you know the 7800 GTX 512 isn't supported by drivers earlier than 81.86?

Have you looked at the B3D thread on this? Even DW knows its ATI bullshit.

I know you didn't bring this up, but, someone provide me with a HL2 savegame for the area depicted in slide 12 and I'll provide a screenshot that will blow ATi's inferior IQ claims clean out of the water - on a 6800 with no transparency AA to help out either!

 

[ChuzzWazza]

"Average enthusiast gamer plays at least 30 hrs per week"

1. Source?
2. The only people relevant to this are people that can afford to buy such an expensive card. IE people with full time jobs.
3. Such people to play 30 hours a week would have to play 4 hours each week night and 14 hours on the weekend. This would be very rare. Only at my most addicted to world of warcraft would I have been around 30 hours (we are talking playing whenever I could pretty much). The average is at least 30 hours? please.
4. People who buy these cards are likely enthusiast gamers, meaning they love all sorts of games. Consoles, handhelds and PC games. Few would spend all their gaming time on the PC.

In other words, this hours figure is utter crap. I would guess on average people with this card would play 16 hours PC games per week.

"Allowable Gaming Hours Before Failure" then in fine print "Before 1/1000 will fail"

Now to the graph. So every 3 years with 1000 gamers playing 7.5 hours per week on 512 7800gtx, 1 will fail.

1. 1/1000? Big deal, so 1 person in a THOUSAND has to send in for a replacement. So what?
2. Anyone who is buying this card is not going to keep it for 3 years. The scale is stupid.
3. Lets say playing 22.5 hours a week 1/1000 will fair after 1 year. Again 1 in 1000, and now you have your enthusiast gamers happy with the hours it supports.

This argument of card failure is completely bogus.

 

[BFG10K]

Did you know the 7800 GTX 512 isn't supported by drivers earlier than 81.86?

Except the Inquirer tested the plain old 7800 GTX which is supported. Also read ATi's slide carefully - they never actually singled out the GTX 512 in it.

but, someone provide me with a HL2 savegame for the area depicted in slide 12

Why don't you ask HardOCP for one given they were the ones who produced the screenshots.

 

[Gstanfor]

BFG10K, I suggest you read the threads here and on B3D before you embarrass yourself further.

Basically, the "failures" are due to differences between refrast and nVidia's hardware filtering (refrast has 5 bit filtering, nVidia hardware has 8 bit, ATi hardware has 5 bit). nVidia hardware gives a better, higher quality result than refrast and that is what causes the "failure".

 

[AznAnarchy99]

nothing new, both companies do the same thing. i remember when nvidia had a pp presentation talking trash on ATI. kinda funny how childish it has become

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
BFG10K, I suggest you read the threads here and on B3D before you embarrass yourself further.

Basically, the "failures" are due to differences between refrast and nVidia's hardware filtering (refrast has 5 bit filtering, nVidia hardware has 8 bit, ATi hardware has 5 bit). nVidia hardware gives a better, higher quality result than refrast and that is what causes the "failure".

QFT

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Rollo

C is for Cookie, he knows his stuff!

But...but... Cookie! ANYONE knows that we have to judge the XTs competition by when they SAY it should have launched, NOT after they had half a year of re-spins to try and get speeds up to a point where it could compete! And you HAVE to use the pricing from last June! And PRETEND they have the same amount of RAM! And PRETEND the 512GTX released within 10 day at an MSRP $59 higher with a similar amount of RAM doesn't exist!

Then, when all that pretending is done, open your wallet wide and spend $600 on a card that barely bests a $450 card most of us have had since June!

LOL

I thought ATI would be hitting the bottle, not hitting the skids! They sound like disgruntled "woulda/coulda/shoulda" drunks, yelling about why they are really right and we're all wrong!

This is why many people think of you as a troll, Rollo. You fail to treat most people with any sort of dignity or respect whatsoever that your posts are parodies of themselves. You still fail to see that a $700 video card does not win the video card wars singlehandedly (eg. X800XL, X800GTO2 still occupy sweet spots in their respective price ranges), and continuously make asinine posts like this:

Originally posted by: Rollo
*I honestly can't believe anyone on this planet is buying BBA cards now with their miserable one year warranty!

Maybe people buy BBA cards because they are quality products, 1 year warranty notwithstanding? Through all of your posts is a bizarre undercurrent of fanboyism that you don't want ATI to sell a single card. Why is this? Do you want Nvidia to release a $1000 card next year? Because that's where we're headed at this pace. A perfect example of competition helping the video card market is NV35. There's no way we would have seen it so soon had NV30 not been a failure. On the flipside, clearly ATI was resting on its laurels after R300 (and to a lesser extent R420), so still competition from Nvidia made ATI release better R420 cards, such as the X800XL for "value" and X850 series for performance (over a year ago), and the X1800 cards having such high clocks.

You have a tired old list of ATI failings that make it sound like the death of ATI is what you desire most. You even fail to acknowledge any shred of truth in claims such as TSMC saying Nvidia is using a higher than recommended voltage on the 512MB 7800GTX, because 'since it has a lifetime warranty who cares.' I'm a bit alarmed at this statement, and I'd make damn sure any 512MB 7800GTX I bought had a 3 year warranty at least!

On the other end of the spectrum, most ATI/Nvidia cards to date when not overclocked usually last a good 5 years aside from wonky cards (ie DOA or broken from the start), yet ATI offering a 1 year warranty is a sign of an empire crumbling to you (although you wouldn't see it as an empire, because to you ATI is an ant).

For the love of god, just let people enjoy what they want to. You have to harp on anybody buying an X1800 card like they just made the biggest mistake of their life, yet a $1400 SLI 512MB 7800GTX is a wise and just purchase to you. Fanboyism ad nauseum ad infinium.

 

[BFG10K]

BFG10K, I suggest you read the threads here and on B3D before you embarrass yourself further.

Err, so what happened to your (incorrect) driver excuses? Would to care decide where your goalposts sit before you start trying to make some kind of argument?

Basically, the "failures" are due to differences between refrast and nVidia's hardware filtering (refrast has 5 bit filtering, nVidia hardware has 8 bit, ATi hardware has 5 bit). nVidia hardware gives a better, higher quality result than refrast and that is what causes the "failure".

Except ATi is failing too so clearly there's more to this than meets the eye.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

BFG10K, I suggest you read the threads here and on B3D before you embarrass yourself further.

Err, so what happened to your (incorrect) driver excuses? Would to care decide where your goalposts sit before you start trying to make some kind of argument?

Basically, the "failures" are due to differences between refrast and nVidia's hardware filtering (refrast has 5 bit filtering, nVidia hardware has 8 bit, ATi hardware has 5 bit). nVidia hardware gives a better, higher quality result than refrast and that is what causes the "failure".

Except ATi is failing too so clearly there's more to this than meets the eye.

Sloppy ATi for reusing propoganda slides ( both the ones I mentioned have been used before). They shouldn't state they are talking about the 512mb card then actually discuss the 256mb model should they?

If this is the stance you and the fanATics are going to take, then expect nVidia supporters to criticise R5xx based on how they perform with older drivers. What's good for the goose...

 

[fire400]

wow... one word, WOW

second word: "hatred" so much of it...

 

[terentenet]

1. G70 has been out for more than 6 months already; R520 has barely hit the shelves.
2. nVidia's R&D dept had money on it's hand from the sale of G70's to develop G80
3. nVidia has been very tight lipped about their upcoming chips (we heard about 512MB GTX's some 2 weeks before launch date). So we really don't know what they have as of now.

These 2 alone and I consider nVidia much more liable to release the G80 than ATI releasing the R580. If they indeed release R580, R520 would have a life span of what? 2 months? Odd



EDIT: Hard for me to believe that once G70 was out and beating all the others, nVidia just rested on their laurels. I am preety sure the G80 is internally functional and testing, just like ATI's R580.
Both companies have "spies" and know what the other company is preping. That's why all products are on par performance wise when reaching the market.

EDIT 2: Something in ATI's 90mm process went wrong when producing the cards. I've heard some complaining of high temps (even if the 90nm process should make the core cooler). Also, the 90nm ATI chip in xbox360 is overheating.
On the other hand, nVidia works with IBM to produce the GeForce chips. IBM also works with AMD and we all know how good, cool and matured the 90nm process is over there.

 

[Sc4freak]

Hasn't Nvidia already switched over to TSMC?

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: terentenet
man, it's funny how some ppl state that cooling won't help overvolting. then let those ppl explain me how the hell do those guys with phase cooling afford to pump the voltages like mad and get fx57's to run 3800MHz? guess it's because it's not the volts that crack the circuitry, but the temp. http://www.hardwareasylum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901
i know this guy that's been running an a64 3200+ @2600MHz for a year now with no problem, on a humble vapochill II.
raising the voltage means raising the temps. that's the killer.

Well, this thread is mostly useless, but it is worth pointing out that voltage does indeed kill(chips that is), no matter the cooling.

To recite one of my favourite quotes from pm(who unfortunately doesn't post here any more, not hard to see why though):

Heat isn't too hard on a component unless it starts to get very high (>70C). The real killer is elevated voltages.

 

[GOREGRINDER]

yeah the fx-57 at 3.8ghz is one of those "one time benchmark record breaking overclocks" and thats the only purpose somethin like that serves in reality

but its different with gpu's because the core is running on its own board and the only one it will be married with,..so nvidia can tweak the boards circutry,..and tweak the core out to serve whatever purpose they intend,theres no one way to do things..,..nvidia can tweak other areas also,..without yield problems on the mature process,...just like AMD has 130nm running cooler than intels 90nm,...same boat here,..and look at AMD's 90nm now,..i forsee the same from nvidia as we did with AMD

ATI is to intel what nvidia is to AMD,..for AMD and nvidia have alot in common(which is why thier relationship is so good)

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: Rollo

C is for Cookie, he knows his stuff!

But...but... Cookie! ANYONE knows that we have to judge the XTs competition by when they SAY it should have launched, NOT after they had half a year of re-spins to try and get speeds up to a point where it could compete! And you HAVE to use the pricing from last June! And PRETEND they have the same amount of RAM! And PRETEND the 512GTX released within 10 day at an MSRP $59 higher with a similar amount of RAM doesn't exist!

Then, when all that pretending is done, open your wallet wide and spend $600 on a card that barely bests a $450 card most of us have had since June!

LOL

I thought ATI would be hitting the bottle, not hitting the skids! They sound like disgruntled "woulda/coulda/shoulda" drunks, yelling about why they are really right and we're all wrong!

This is why many people think of you as a troll, Rollo. You fail to treat most people with any sort of dignity or respect whatsoever that your posts are parodies of themselves.

The only "people" I'm not treating with respect in that post are the laughable sore losers at ATI who have been telling anyone who will listen that they should only compare the X1800XT to a card released five months earlier that has half the RAM and a $200 lower MSRP.
If you are on the ATI payroll and one of the people responsible for that idiotic bit of spin ("Let's play it off as meant to compete with nVs last gen, and that the price will be lower someday!") you are right:
I am treating you with no dignity whatsoever. I am laughing in their lieing faces, as many people are.
If you are directing this flame at me because you perceive me to be some sort of "ringleader" in this hostility toward ATI, I can assure that were I gone the members here aren't dumb enough to believe much of what ATI says anymore after a year of paper launches, actual products being below expectations, late and costly.

You still fail to see that a $700 video card does not win the video card wars singlehandedly (eg. X800XL, X800GTO2 still occupy sweet spots in their respective price ranges), and continuously make asinine posts like this:

What does ATI have to compete at the $700 price point? Nothing
What does ATI have to compete at the $450 price point? Nothing
What does ATI have to compete against SLI? Nothing
What does ATI have to compete at the $330 price point? Nothing
Do I need to go on?

Originally posted by: Rollo
*I honestly can't believe anyone on this planet is buying BBA cards now with their miserable one year warranty!

Maybe people buy BBA cards because they are quality products, 1 year warranty notwithstanding?

I think those people are gamblers at best. I know Mercedes Benz makes a quality product, but if they cut their warranty from 3 years to 1 year, I think a lot more people would drive BMW? Why would anyone risk $400-$600 on a skimpy, industry lowest one year warranty? To help ATI save money on repair costs? Give me a break- if I buy their product I want to know I'll be able to own it at least couple years without risk. ATI spit in their customers faces with that warranty.

Through all of your posts is a bizarre undercurrent of fanboyism that you don't want ATI to sell a single card.

If they are not a good deal for the members of this board, that is what I want.

Why is this? Do you want Nvidia to release a $1000 card next year? Because that's where we're headed at this pace.

We'll have a $1000 card next year if supply/demand allow it? If cars are $1000, I would expect to see more competitors get in the business.

A perfect example of competition helping the video card market is NV35. There's no way we would have seen it so soon had NV30 not been a failure. On the flipside, clearly ATI was resting on its laurels after R300 (and to a lesser extent R420), so still competition from Nvidia made ATI release better R420 cards, such as the X800XL for "value" and X850 series for performance (over a year ago), and the X1800 cards having such high clocks.

I agree.

You have a tired old list of ATI failings that make it sound like the death of ATI is what you desire most.

You mean the "old list" of things that happened in the last 12 months?

You even fail to acknowledge any shred of truth in claims such as TSMC saying Nvidia is using a higher than recommended voltage on the 512MB 7800GTX, because 'since it has a lifetime warranty who cares.' I'm a bit alarmed at this statement, and I'd make damn sure any 512MB 7800GTX I bought had a 3 year warranty at least!

I don't think that slide show gave us enough of the picture. Was the failure rate higher with a phase change? Water? Quadro fan? NO hsf? Who knows? They put up a slide and said "Lookie here, higher failure rates!" and some lapped it up like cats drinking cream.

On the other end of the spectrum, most ATI/Nvidia cards to date when not overclocked usually last a good 5 years aside from wonky cards (ie DOA or broken from the start), yet ATI offering a 1 year warranty is a sign of an empire crumbling to you (although you wouldn't see it as an empire, because to you ATI is an ant).

I don't know what else to think about it? Either a. their tests showed their new products would have much higher failure rates after one year b. or accountants told them their cost of warranty work on 2-3 years makes it impossible for them to be profitable.
Either way the consumer is screwed.

For the love of god, just let people enjoy what they want to.

I doubt God cares much about me saying ATI latest antics anger me.

You have to harp on anybody buying an X1800 card like they just made the biggest mistake of their life, yet a $1400 SLI 512MB 7800GTX is a wise and just purchase to you. Fanboyism ad nauseum ad infinium.

The X1800 cards at their current price points are a bad deal.