ATI tries to downplay SLI

[BenSkywalker]

Dave-

I'll keep it simple this post. Answer three short questions-

What are all of the 'numerous games' that support PS 2.0?

Why is it you don't think the DooM3 engine will be as popular as prior id engines?

How many games have you played through, start to finish, in the last two years?

BFG-

B3D is already using a game that doesn't support AA for benching, Halo could bring any of the last gen parts to their knees without AA and AF thanks to its shader load.

Some of the later Quake III engined games like SOF2, Jedi Academy, COD and Elite Force 2 were using shaders reasonably extensively.

But none of them were PS 2.0 level shaders which is what they were pushing so hard.

Doom III will actually run on DX7 parts and have most IQ present.

Only GeForce for DX7 level hardware, it won't run at all on the others.

OTOH a game built around shaders like Far Cry looks nothing it should on a DX7 part and games like Deus Ex2 and Thief 3 will not launch on hardware that doesn't support DirectX 8.0 shaders or higher.

Just saw that for Thief3, DeusEX2 doesn't claim to have any shader requirement that I can find anywhere.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Rollo
BFG:
You need to get a life beyond worrying so much about which video cards other people buy?

Rollo, this childish nonsense has to stop. I couldn't care less what you call me, but seeing you turn to everyone else who puts up valid points against pre-recorded rhetoric you've been posting endlessly on these boards and insult them based on their nationality, their post count or their hobbies is ridiculous.

You are a 3000 post member, like me, on an internet board for geeks who talk about computer hardware. When your stock of BS comments starts to mount and the smell gets unbearable, you start lashing out with absurd comments like telling BFG to get a life. How about you? You're on a heaven-sent quest to prove that the 5800 series "wasn't that bad" and say that the R3x0 series was never worthwhile because it's shader performance isn't good enough for shader intensive games. Which side of the issue would you like to take today?

As you said - it's a free country (yes, even in Canada, Europe or New Zealand, for example) and we can debate hardware as much as we want. If you post BS, then we can comment on this as much as we'd like.

Jiffy, LT, Creig, and BFG:
I'm not going to respond to your inane "Why did you buy the 5800 when you had a 9800?" and "These benchmarks clearly show the 9700P better at high res!" questions/accusations any more.

Why?
1. I can't win the argument, so there's no point to try.[/quote]

The only thing inane is how you've managed to keep posting with double-speak like this. This is a 10-page thread that you've been the main participant in. It lost its focus a long time ago, and you've been arguing this point for about the last 5 pages, at least.

You guys said I was "nVidia biased" when I was using and liking ATI cards, so it's not likely I'll convince you when I'm not.

Don't forget that ATI values you as a customer more because you've bought and sold more ATI cards than any of us.

2. I don't particularly care if you think I'm "biased".

So why respond at all?

3. I don't really care what you think about 9700Pros and 5800Us.
4. Most of all, I don't have to "defend" my purchases. Free country, my money, you don't like it, too bad. LOL

More immaturity. Nobody "doesn't like" your purchases - why should we care what you buy? It's when you say stuff like "the X800 Pro is the same technology as ATI was using 2 years ago," whilst having purchased three 5800 cards that shows how ridiculous your initial argument is.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

OTOH a game built around shaders like Far Cry looks nothing it should on a DX7 part and games like Deus Ex2 and Thief 3 will not launch on hardware that doesn't support DirectX 8.0 shaders or higher.

Just saw that for Thief3, DeusEX2 doesn't claim to have any shader requirement that I can find anywhere.

Deus Ex 2: GeForce 3Ti/4Ti/FX & ATI Radeon 8500/9xxx or higher .

Thief 3 has the same requirements: PS 1.1 . A couple sites to verify this: ARS, EB. A google search for "thief deadly shadows Pixel Shader 1.1" brings up more examples.

 

[Drayvn]

So if Unreal 2 support SM2 or PS2, or whatever , doesnt that mean we already have over 30 games which support PS2?

But then again, some of u guys have already said that it doesnt..... im getting confused, can anybody help by giving me a link?

 

[EvilComputer92]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about SLI and stuff. Not about 5800 vs 9700 or 9800 (its pretty clear ATI wins on this one though)

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
<blockquote>quote:
<hr><i>Originally posted by: <b>BenSkywalker</b></i>
<blockquote>quote:
<hr>
OTOH a game built around shaders like Far Cry looks nothing it should on a DX7 part and games like Deus Ex2 and Thief 3 will not launch on hardware that doesn't support DirectX 8.0 shaders or higher.<hr></blockquote>

Just saw that for Thief3, DeusEX2 doesn't claim to have any shader requirement that I can find anywhere.<hr></blockquote>

Deus Ex 2: <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.eidosinteractive.co...l?gmid=125">GeForce 3Ti/4Ti/FX &amp; ATI Radeon 8500/9xxx or higher</a> .

DX2 worked on my original Geforce3 (without being anywhere near playable, even on 640), but I think this card was the absolute minimum requirement. This game is very badly programmed though and some areas can slow down any of the new cards to a crawl on even 1024x768 without AA/AF; I get like 15fps in some places on a 6800GT in this mode, even after using some performance hacks for the game.

 

[lordtyranus]

But then again, some of u guys have already said that it doesnt..... im getting confused, can anybody help by giving me a link?

I'm sorry about my reply. Unreal 2 doesn't have any SM2, Unreal 3 will require it.

I thought this thread was supposed to be about SLI and stuff. Not about 5800 vs 9700 or 9800 (its pretty clear ATI wins on this one though)

[Rollo mode] Hahaha newbie. The only thing superior about your precious r300 cards is useless sm2 effects. shiny pipes..oooh..smack smack, flashy water...ooohh....smack smack. Too bad there were no sm2 games at the time fool, now you should have a 6800 in your box or else you are poor and stupid. The 5800 is roxxorz and who cares about AA/AF? They don't make any difference in image quality, all R300 owners keep ranting on how the 9700 pro is better at 16x12 4x/8x with 16 fps vs 8, WOW kid. would you rather ride a donkey or a cow, Big Chief? Seriously ati fanbios are out of control. Gosh. [/Rollo mode]

 

[EvilComputer92]

Deus Ex 2 is the only game that I have to run on 1024x768. All my other
games run well at 1600x1200 (well except Halo, that I run on 1280x1024 with 4x AF)
Is Theif 3 just as badly unoptimized as DX2?

Oh yeah..I have a BFG 6800 GT...I don't think that's like a 5800 in terms of it's crappiness. But I guess x800 XT is also nice i just got a GT cuz the XT is so *%$&amp;@*^ impossible to find!

BTW has anyone seen screenies of the near-cgi Unreal 3 engines.. It makes Doom 3 look like a Playstation 1 game!

 

[nRollo]

Jiffy:

It's nice you wanted to get the last word in, but I won't respond to your "arguments".

I started this thread to talk about ATI downplaying nVidia's new "sli" technology.

As far as I'm concerned, yours (and everyone else's) off topic posts about my "bias" and 5800Ultras is unwelcome.

Did you have anything to say about sli? Or do you want to post more about my "upgrade paths"? :roll:

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: lordtyranus
<blockquote>quote:
<hr>But then again, some of u guys have already said that it doesnt..... im getting confused, can anybody help by giving me a link?<hr></blockquote>
I'm sorry about my reply. Unreal 2 doesn't have any SM2, Unreal 3 will require it.

<blockquote>quote:
<hr>I thought this thread was supposed to be about SLI and stuff. Not about 5800 vs 9700 or 9800 (its pretty clear ATI wins on this one though)<hr></blockquote>
[Rollo mode] Hahaha newbie. The only thing superior about your precious r300 cards is useless sm2 effects. shiny pipes..oooh..smack smack, flashy water...ooohh....smack smack. Too bad there were no sm2 games at the time fool, now you should have a 6800 in your box or else you are poor and stupid. The 5800 is roxxorz and who cares about AA/AF? They don't make any difference in image quality, all R300 owners keep ranting on how the 9700 pro is better at 16x12 4x/8x with 16 fps vs 8, WOW kid. would you rather ride a donkey or a cow, Big Chief? Seriously ati fanbios are out of control. Gosh. [/Rollo mode]

Thank you LT. I laughed loud and hard at this. I'm still laughing at the "would you rather ride a donkey or a cow, Big Chief?" part.

 

[Acanthus]

STFU about NV30 and R300 already.

Neither of them are involved in this discussion, please make a new thread.

MY CONTRIBUTION TO THE ACTUAL DISCUSSION:

People have theorized that the Nforce 4 motherboard will only sport 24 lanes on its PCI-E enabled southbridge, leaving 16 for one slot and 8 for the other for graphics.

I dont see this being possible as it wouldnt allow for any other PCI-E devices in a SLI PC.

I would imagine that NF4 will just break the spec and support more than 24 lanes in order to accomodate 2 graphics cards and additional PCI-E devices.

Does anyone have any links to evidence one way or the other?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

STFU about NV30 and R300 already. Don't read this post then :lips:

Everyone best lay off my venerable 5800U or I'll put the JU-JU on ya!!! Wether you love or hate D3, th...U plays it very well. It handles almost any game@exceptable res&amp;settings too. It was a good Halo card, though FarCry and PK are among the exceptions. Yes it is crippled for PS2, and unlike Rollo I liked the 9800p he sent me better in every area except aesthetics *no BFD certainly* but considering it cost me what a 5600U flip chip went for@the time $220ish, the 9800p was still at least $100 more, and 9700p for $200 or so were snatched so fast I couldn't get near one, I was stoked to get that fast a card for the money. I wear cans when gaming *gotta protect the lil' man's hearing* and the Delta 60mm screamer level noise was subsequently a non-issue outside of benching.

I know what the thread title is too, and I've posted here extensively on the topic, so this aside posting is to say I don't believe it's equal to the 9800p overall, but in most games the real world palyability difference was non-existant. We worked this trade 6months ago? and there was one game I played that I saw a difference in FarCry. Halo, CoD, BF1942, ect. were all just as readily playable@exceptable res&amp;settings on the 5800u as they were on the 9800p *I was limited by my LCDs native res. too*. Frame rate advantages are fine up to a point, but I wasn't effected by the lower FPS the 5800U offfered because the frame rates were still smooth in everything outside of FarCry *only had the demos@the time*

I suspect if Rollo didn't purposely "jerk your chains" to get ya'll worked up, that no one would pick on it anymore, but my personal experience was that aside from the noise it was very capable in all my favorite titles except FarCry and since the price fell off dramatically it provided a very equitable gaming experience</5800U the puppy no one wanted love fest> :laugh:

 

[Blastman]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

B3D is already using a game that doesn't support AA for benching, Halo could bring any of the last gen parts to their knees without AA and AF thanks to its shader load.

I would rule out Halo as a benchmark. NV (worked with developer) to write a separate shader path for their cards. Hardly a reasonable comparison of shader performance between NV and ATI cards.

 

[nRollo]

Uh oh. :Q

You did it now Punisher. You said some things about the 5800U that weren't hateful, now a pack of "geeks" is going to drop on you like hyenas with some THG and Digit Life links.......


You'd clearly rather ride a goat, Big Chief!

 

[SickBeast]

The title of this thread needs to be edited. It should read:

"ATI tries to downplay SLI. Rollo tries to downplay R300. Numerous others try to downplay the 5800U."

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
The title of this thread needs to be edited. It should read:

"ATI tries to downplay SLI. Rollo tries to downplay R300. Numerous others try to downplay the 5800U."

LOL

I did say at least three times in this thread I didn't want to discuss the the 5800U, it sort of follows me around like the scarlet letter.

Anyway, my buddy saw SLI running Doom 3 at GenCon with no problems. So the technology is done, we need some motherboards!

I was discussing the whole SLI thing with him at dinner the other night, my wife didn't look happy at my excitement about it.

Hmmmm....can she predict the future?.......

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Uh oh. :Q

You did it now Punisher. You said some things about the 5800U that weren't hateful, now a pack of "geeks" is going to drop on you like hyenas with some THG and Digit Life links.......


You'd clearly rather ride a goat, Big Chief!

Being old school like me, you know a Goat is a GTO, and you're damned straight I'd rather ride one!

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: SickBeast
The title of this thread needs to be edited. It should read:

"ATI tries to downplay SLI. Rollo tries to downplay R300. Numerous others try to downplay the 5800U."

LOL

I did say at least three times in this thread I didn't want to discuss the the 5800U, it sort of follows me around like the scarlet letter.

Anyway, my buddy saw SLI running Doom 3 at GenCon with no problems. So the technology is done, we need some motherboards!

I was discussing the whole SLI thing with him at dinner the other night, my wife didn't look happy at my excitement about it.

Hmmmm....can she predict the future?.......

It's only a matter of time before you purchase SLI, Rollo. Then you'll be able to tell everyone that you're riding a wagon being towed by two cheetahs. :beer:

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Being old school like me, you know a Goat is a GTO, and you're damned straight I'd rather ride one! [/quote]

Are you talking about the Pontiac or the Ferrari?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Being old school like me, you know a Goat is a GTO, and you're damned straight I'd rather ride one!

Are you talking about the Pontiac or the Ferrari? [/quote]

The old school Pontiac Goats

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Being old school like me, you know a Goat is a GTO, and you're damned straight I'd rather ride one!

Are you talking about the Pontiac or the Ferrari?

The old school Pontiac Goats[/quote]

OMG teh Ferrari GTO

No Ferrari has a more tenacious claim to greatness than the 250 GTO...The intent of the GTO was in its name: "Gran Turismo Omologato." This roughly translates to "Grand Touring Homologation," meaning that the car was sold as a road car solely to qualify it for GT competition.

I'll take the Ferrari.

 

[user1234]

they will not succeed IMO

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I'll take the Ferrari

You punk kids would.... You have obviously never been in a classic GTO that's been tweaked for speed and style or you would not dismiss it so quickly. It's no Ferrari, but some nice Goats are at least obtainable in a price range I can afford :light:

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
some nice Goats are at least obtainable in a price range I can afford :light:

Indeed, which explains your purchase of the 5800U.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
some nice Goats are at least obtainable in a price range I can afford :light:

Indeed, which explains your purchase of the 5800U.

See. you get it! Even if you are a biased Canuck The 5800U is like an old American Muscle Car; fast and loud with awesome style. :thumbsup: