Atkins Induction, Day 2: I hate my life. (Also, Atkins questions)

[Dedpuhl]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

That's why many people cannot lose weight by exercise and calorie-counting.

I have never met a single person in the world who can't lose weight by excercise and PROPER calorie counting. Afterall the lack of both is the reason they got fat in the first place!

I know SEVERAL people that are morbidly obese that have tried. I've watched them starve themselves. I've watched them actually write down the calorie intake. They tried to exercise but couldn't do it for long. I've seen the frustration in their eyes. I've even seen them cry.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: amnesiac
I think I'm just going to do an XXXTREME cutback on carbs as opposed to eliminating them entirely. I'm also a lot more consious of what I'm eating too. I also work out 4 times a week.

Oh yeah and I'm quitting coffee for a week or so to detox and drinking tons of water.

I haven't had a cup in 8 days. Longest I've gone in years. I'm doing it for the teeth staining rasons though; not the caffeine, and I do plan on returning to it by month's end once my treatments are up

 

[amnesiac]

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl

Originally posted by: Skoorb

That's why many people cannot lose weight by exercise and calorie-counting.

I have never met a single person in the world who can't lose weight by excercise and PROPER calorie counting. Afterall the lack of both is the reason they got fat in the first place!

I know SEVERAL people that are morbidly obese that have tried. I've watched them starve themselves. I've watched them actually write down the calorie intake. They tried to exercise but couldn't do it for long. I've seen the frustration in their eyes. I've even seen them cry.

And then you ate them?

 

[Rudee]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Skoorb

That's why many people cannot lose weight by exercise and calorie-counting.

I have never met a single person in the world who can't lose weight by excercise and PROPER calorie counting. Afterall the lack of both is the reason they got fat in the first place!

An overweight person who is calorie counting but still overeating carbs, will be far too tired to ever exercise. Hence the entire point of cutting out complex carbohydrates. They are the hardest thing for your body to break down.

I wouldn't say that carbohydrate is "hard" for the body to break down. It's just that a little sugar goes a long way. We simply don't need to be storing excess sugar for the lives we live today. Maybe 40,000 years ago during the Caveman era it would be prudent, but not today.

 

[StageLeft]

I know SEVERAL people that are morbidly obese that have tried. I've watched them starve themselves. I've watched them actually write down the calorie intake. They tried to exercise but couldn't do it for long. I've seen the frustration in their eyes. I've even seen them cry.

I've seen fat people do the sam thing - or think they were. A very obese lady I know says that she eats like a bird but just can't lose weight. Well sure she nibbles during the day but then lunch time is a big BBQ meal and go d knows what she eats later.

The fact of the matter is that these people didn't get fat from magic. They got fat because their body had an intake of more calories than it was outputting. That's where their fat came from. If they correct that the fat WILL go away. Excercise and diet does work. If you take a fat person who eats 4500 calories/day and you put them on a reasonable restriction of calories (say 2500 to start) and get their ass walking every night (tired? Of course - you weigh 350 lbs!) they'll lose that fat. Fat people were able to get thin long before ketosis entered dieting.

 

[ElFenix]

remember to build your carbs back up slowly. you do need some.

 

[Dedpuhl]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
remember to build your carbs back up slowly. you do need some.

20g is all you need to properly function.

 

[Rudee]

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl

Originally posted by: Skoorb

That's why many people cannot lose weight by exercise and calorie-counting.

I have never met a single person in the world who can't lose weight by excercise and PROPER calorie counting. Afterall the lack of both is the reason they got fat in the first place!

I know SEVERAL people that are morbidly obese that have tried. I've watched them starve themselves. I've watched them actually write down the calorie intake. They tried to exercise but couldn't do it for long. I've seen the frustration in their eyes. I've even seen them cry.

Skoorb said "PROPER" calorie counting... starving yourself, while forcing your body to overexert itself leads to disaster. Food doesn't have to be your enemy if you make wise choices about the types of foods you are eating.

 

[Dedpuhl]

Originally posted by: Rudee

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl

Originally posted by: Skoorb

That's why many people cannot lose weight by exercise and calorie-counting.

I have never met a single person in the world who can't lose weight by excercise and PROPER calorie counting. Afterall the lack of both is the reason they got fat in the first place!

I know SEVERAL people that are morbidly obese that have tried. I've watched them starve themselves. I've watched them actually write down the calorie intake. They tried to exercise but couldn't do it for long. I've seen the frustration in their eyes. I've even seen them cry.

Skoorb said "PROPER" calorie counting... starving yourself, while forcing your body to overexert itself leads to disaster. Food doesn't have to be your enemy if you make wise choices about the types of foods you are eating.

When the counting doesnt work, people try to starve themselves. Many start properly....

 

[StageLeft]

When the counting doesnt work, people try to starve themselves. Many start properly....

I maintain that a sensible approach to it will work in all but the most dire cases (those defined by people who have some glaring illness like a totally out of whack thyroid).

Unfortunately when you're used to eating 4500 calories/day approaching food sensibly is often difficult. I believe that the average adult has very little clue about diet, calorie levels, metabolic needs, etc.

Don't forget that most successful long term dieters (people who used to be fat; not those starting out thin) have acheived their maintenance through a combination of frequent excercise and watching what they eat - and I think you'll find that a scant few have adhered to an Atkins approach for years on end.

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl

Originally posted by: Skoorb

That's why many people cannot lose weight by exercise and calorie-counting.

I have never met a single person in the world who can't lose weight by excercise and PROPER calorie counting. Afterall the lack of both is the reason they got fat in the first place!

I know SEVERAL people that are morbidly obese that have tried. I've watched them starve themselves. I've watched them actually write down the calorie intake. They tried to exercise but couldn't do it for long. I've seen the frustration in their eyes. I've even seen them cry.

The fact that they become frustrated and you have seen them cry, is proof that it is a mental response. Sure you feel like crap for a while, and sure you cant exercise more than a minute or two if you are mobidly obese. When people like this fail its because they make a mental choice that they WONT put up with the pain and suffering, not because they CANT.

True Statment:
I CANT fly like superman.

False Statement:
I CANT stop eating.

PS: And yes I do realize people have physical problems that prevent them from doing things, such as losing weight. Over-eating however, is not physical.

 

[Rudee]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

A very obese lady I know says that she eats like a bird but just can't lose weight. Well sure she nibbles during the day but then lunch time is a big BBQ meal and go d knows what she eats later.

I know exactly the type... These are the people you see at fast food restaurants ordering the double Whopper with cheese, apple pie, and large fries, but make it a point to order a Diet Coke, and beaming with pride for doing so. Yeah, sure lady...

Let's say she didn't order any junk food at all, but simply ate like a bird, with a daily caloric intake significantly lower than maintenance levels... What would end up happening is that her metabolism would down-regulate to compensate for the massive calorie deficit. Say "bye bye" to lean muscle tissue, cause it's getting sacrificed, and say "hello" to a slower metabolism. Now, it gets worse.... When she starts eating "normally" again, she will put on all the weight back that she lost - if she lost any - however, the metabolism will remain supressed as the muscle tissue that was sacrificed is gone. This is why many "yo-yo" dieters become heavier and heavier with every attempt at weightloss using drastic caloric reduction as their method for weightloss.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: amnesiac
I think I'm just going to do an XXXTREME cutback on carbs as opposed to eliminating them entirely. I'm also a lot more consious of what I'm eating too. I also work out 4 times a week.

Oh yeah and I'm quitting coffee for a week or so to detox and drinking tons of water.

You know you aren't supposed to cut out carbs altogether.... Just restrict them, and choose wisely which ones you do intake.

It seems as though you haven't read Dr Atkins' book... There is a reason why low fat AND low carb isn't necessarily a good idea. Don't be afraid to add some fat. There's no proof that a "regular" or higher fat intake (combined with a low carb intake) has any ill effects.

After being on Atkins for ~16 weeks, I had my blood tested. The results were very impressive.

 

[DT4K]

First of all, for any low-carb diet to work, you shouldn't be eating low-fat.
Low-carb diets generally have a positive affect on cholesterol even though they are higher fat.
This is probably because your body uses the fats for energy before they ever have a chance to be stored in your blood.

I went off Atkins this past weekend after 12 days.
I talk about it here.
For the first 2 days, my muscles felt weak. Then I felt pretty good for about a week.
Then I started feeling really really weak last Saturday.
And I had lost 6 pounds in the first 6 days, but hadn't lost anything in the last 6 days.

But, the more I think about it, the more I realize I didn't do it right.
I drank coffee every day, which can affect blood sugar levels and result in cravings.
I ate sugar free candy and low carb bread. Neither one of which is good for induction even though I did keep my carb count to under 20g.
I think I probably increased my total calorie intake.
I didn't exercise at all.

Now the idea of Atkins is to put your body in Ketosis, which means you are converting fat into ketones and using those ketones instead of glucose to provide fuel for your body. This is why it is so effective for people. It makes it much easier for your body to burn off your fat stores. It is actually less efficient to burn fat for energy than carbs. But this is a good thing. Less efficient means your body has to work harder and use more calories to burn the fat. This is why some people lose fat on Atkins even when their caloric intake remains the same.

But I think I went overboard with the butter and oils and other fats.
I wasn't exercising at all.
And I was likely eating more calories than before in those last 6 days with all the sugar free candies.
So even though I was in ketosis and burning fat for energy, I think my body was getting enough energy from my food so it didn't need to burn my excess body fat.

So although the low-carb approach says you don't need to count calories, I don't think that is entirely accurate. And in fact, I do believe Atkins mentions not going overboard on portions.
I read a study that showed the average calorie intake for a group of people to be 2500. When they went on a strict Atkins induction, the average calorie intake was 1500.

So I think Atkins is successful for two reasons.
1. Ketosis allows the body to more easily burn excess body fat for energy.
2. The lack of blood-sugar spikes caused by carbs, along with the filling power of proteins and fats, causes people to naturally eat less without feeling hungry.

I failed at number 2 because I consumed large amounts of caffeine, which has an affect on blood sugar, and in turn, felt hungrier and increased my caloric intake.

I am not an expert and the above is simply my current hypothesis about what went wrong.
I have started my plan to gradually switch to decaffeinated coffee over the next week or two.
And I worked out this morning for the first time in a while.
I am going to give Atkins another try once I have given up the caffeine and gotten into a regular exercise program.
Hopefully in a week or two.

 

[rahvin]

Two things:

If you are low fat and low carb you aren't following the diet.
If you are hungry you aren't following the diet. (this is critical because if you are hungry you are in a nasty insulin cycle)

I've been following in a general sort of way the diet and I have not felt hungry once, even during the hellish induction where I craved every bread and sugar known to man. I also believe the diet is more tailored to those of descent from northern european nations that traditionally ate very few grains. Being at least 1/4 swede and more than 1/2 english I believe my metabolism is geared towards consumption of meat products and as a result I have felt fantastic on this diet.

 

[Stark]

I'm on the south beach diet.
all i know is that i still eat all the time and i've lost 10 pounds.

it's not about how much you eat,
it's about learning what to eat (and what to avoid).

 

[luv2chill]

Originally posted by: Shanti
<snip>And I had lost 6 pounds in the first 6 days, but hadn't lost anything in the last 6 days.

I ate sugar free candy...

There's your problem right there. One of the biggest misconceptions perpetuated by the low-carb "industry" (even Atkins) is that you can eat "low carb" candy with the belief that it is only 1-2 grams of carbohydrates.

The dirty little lie about this stuff is that these foods almost always contain large quantities of sugar alcohols (e.g. malitol, sorbital, lacitol, erythritol, etc.). Depending on the candy, sometimes upwards of 40 grams PER serving. As you (should) know, that is more grams of carbohydrates than you're allowed to have in a single day (two days in induction!). The reason these companies are allowed to get away with this is that sugar alcohols don't have as large an effect on insulin levels *for some people*. The problem is that different people respond to them in different ways. Some lucky souls have little to no insulin response from sugar alcohols. Other people (the middle of the curve) have a reduced insulin response compared to regular sugars, and some people react to them the same as they would pure sugar. There's no hard and fast rule, but there is one very unscientific way to gauge your body's reaction to ingestion of sugar alcohols... the CYP (Crap Your Pants) factor.

As diabetics already know (they've been dealing with sugar alcohols forever), one nasty side effect of sugar alcohols is that they can cause gas and diarrhea (the euphamism on the nutrition label is usually "laxative effect"). The reason this happens is the same as why they tend not to spike insulin levels--the human body can't readily digest them. So as they pass undigested through your gut, the bacteria that live there have a field day.

So, if you are prone to the "laxitive effect" of those low-carb candies (even when just eating a normal serving) then conversely you probably don't get much of an insulin response from ingesting them--they have passed largely undigested into your intestines. On the other hand, if you don't notice any digestive problems even after eating excessive amounts of the stuff, then it means your body is digesting them just fine and thus spiking your insulin levels, ruining your diet.

See, it's a lose-lose situation with sugar alcohols. Either you can eat them knowing they won't spoil your diet (be sure a toilet is nearby and get some toilet paper with aloe) or you can eat them without any intestinal "distress" knowing that even small amounts are being treated by your body just like normal sugar.

Most of us are somewhere in between. Also, not all sugar alcohols are created equal. Malitol is the cheapest, and therefore used most often. However, has a high CYP factor and many people show an insulin response from ingensting it. Lacitol is even worse (beware of the sugar-free Reeses PB Cups). The best one (also the most expensive--go figure) is erythritol. It causes minimal digestive problems and also tends to have the smallest effect on your insulin levels.

One other point to note is that some of the less-noble food manufacturers don't even itemize how many grams of sugar alcohols are in their product--they omit it from the carb count for you, leaving you with the notion that the full size chocolate bar you just inhaled only had 1g of carbohydrates. Common sense should set off warning bells, but a lot of people don't know about how macronutrients work so they just assume they are being told the truth. Always look at the ingredient list. If you see something ending in "-tol" near the beginning, just know that it's got a large amount of carbohydrates in it--despite what the nutrition info might tell you.

Sorry to hijack your thread amnesiac. Hopefully people find this information useful.

l2c

 

[Krassus]

You're doing this all wrong. Have little to no carbs, but have TONS of fat and protein. If you reduce both carbs and fat, your body's left with no energy, which explains why you feel like crap. This is standard procedure for ketogenic diets (Atkins is just one of them). Take your weight, times 9 to get your LOWEST amount of calories. This is as low as you can go without damaging your body. Start 20% above that and reduce to that amount over a week or so. Eat <30g carbs a day, 1g of protein per pound of weight, and the rest of calories must come from fat. For example:

Weight: 200
Min calories: 1800
Carbs: 30g x 4cal (carbs are 4 cal / gram) = 120cal
Prot: 200g x 4cal = 800cal
1800cal - (120 carb cal + 800 prot cal) = 880cal / 9cal (fats are 9 cal / gram) = 98g fat

 

[BD231]

Just drink low carb protein shakes and have a Nitro-Tech Low carb high fiber bar here and there amnesiac. Those low carb meat diets rob you of fiber and nutrients, and really just end up making you feel like sh*t. At least you'll have some energy on Whey protein.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: BD231
Those low carb meat diets rob you of fiber and nutrients, and really just end up making you feel like sh*t.

I have never felt like crap on this diet. And actually, I have had more energy on a day-to-day basis the entire 16+ weeks that I've been on this plan.

 

[Krassus]

Originally posted by: BD231
Just drink low carb protein shakes and have a Nitro-Tech Low carb high fiber bar here and there amnesiac. Those low carb meat diets rob you of fiber and nutrients, and really just end up making you feel like sh*t. At least you'll have some energy on Whey protein.

They're not low-carb...

 

[Krassus]

Originally posted by: Shanti
I have started my plan to gradually switch to decaffeinated coffee over the next week or two.

I'm speechless. Gradually switch over two weeks? This is coffee, not heroin! The amount of willpower it takes to quit coffee cold turkey is laughable compared to what is needed to get a great physique. JUST DO IT!

 

[BD231]

Originally posted by: Krassus

Originally posted by: BD231
Just drink low carb protein shakes and have a Nitro-Tech Low carb high fiber bar here and there amnesiac. Those low carb meat diets rob you of fiber and nutrients, and really just end up making you feel like sh*t. At least you'll have some energy on Whey protein.

They're not low-carb...

Yeah actually they are, look harder. MuscleTech and ABB Nutrition make drinks at both 4 and 6 carbs(mostly from fiber) with 45 to 50 grams of protein and TONS of vitamins. I've lost 130 pounds, I think I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Krassus]

Originally posted by: BD231

Originally posted by: Krassus

Originally posted by: BD231 Just drink low carb protein shakes and have a Nitro-Tech Low carb high fiber bar here and there amnesiac. Those low carb meat diets rob you of fiber and nutrients, and really just end up making you feel like sh*t. At least you'll have some energy on Whey protein.

They're not low-carb...

Yeah actually they are, look harder. MuscleTech and ABB Nutrition make drinks at both 4 and 6 carbs(mostly from fiber) with 45 to 50 grams of protein and TONS of vitamins. I've lost 130 pounds, I think I know what I'm talking about.

I was referring to the bars, which are 9 i believe. If you're only supposed to have 20-30 a day (which you'll get from veggies and then some), that's off-limits.

 

[crumpet19]

I just ate a giant Wendy's triple stack.. mmmm...