Atom X3/X5/X7 Windows device discussion thread

[Kaido]

have you tried the gigabyte amd brix for $135? granted it doesn't come with ram or an ssd, or OS, but it is compact and fast.

Yup, have used pretty much all of them, all the way up to the latest i7 + GTX760 model. They are great, but the performance (and budget) even on the super-cheap NUC/BRIX models vastly outweigh the new Atom X-series. For example, the $99 Kangaroo gets you a complete Windows 10 computer that you can replace grandma's Gateway from 1998 with (just add a USB optical or floppy if needed) & handle 1080p just fine, whereas you can't even get a barebones BRIX for that price, plus you still have to add OS, RAM, SSD, etc. So for Atoms, I would say that cost is the main factor rather than good performance in a small size with a tiny power footprint...the X5's are running between $99 & $159 right now for a ready-to-play box (just add keyboard/mouse/monitor).

I have one client that has switched almost entirely over to MINIX computers ($160 on Amazon plus a $99 upgrade to Pro and then the free upgrade to Windows 10 = $260 Windows 10 replacement boxes with the Baytrail-T chip). Another client uses primarily Gigabyte BRIX, mostly the i5 regular or the i7 with the GTX760 (all i5 users have dual monitors & i7 users have triple monitors). Pretty slick setups in both cases, but the first one is for really basic office use (single monitor, simple database access, Outlook, Chrome, yada yada yada) & the second site is more for power users who juggle a lot of stuff or need to do lightweight CAD with the NVIDIA-equipped BRIX (the GTX760 models always end up costing at least $1200 with a 500-gig Evo 850 mSATA drive, 16-gigs of RAM, Windows, etc.). But the power savings across the board is huge. One site saved something like $25k a year in the cost of electricity after converting over to LED monitors & BRIX mini computers.

So BRIX are definitely great, but it's just more about what fits the need. The Atom stuff is pretty wussy, but they are super-cheap, super low-power, turnkey (literally open the box, plug it in, add the user, and go), and some of them are sealed for crappier environments like dirty shops (one of the reasons I love the MINIX Z64...other than the ports, it's totally sealed, no fan, and doesn't overheat!). Bonus is I never have to do anything hardware-related unless one breaks, and if there's a virus or other issue on one, I can do a built-in factory reformat without having to pull out any of my restore tools, which is nice. As far as the BRIX go, they are pretty reliable as well...I don't think I have the exact stats, but I think I've had maybe 3 fail in the last few years since I started putting them in. Plus they don't break my back like carrying around big, heavy towers around cubicles & stuff do

 

[BrandonT]

I've had the Kangaroo and am mostly impressed. Snappy enough for web surfing, watching videos and that sort of thing. Then I loaded World of Tanks and at the lowest settings it would have pauses. With Task Manager open the cpu wasn't even working too hard but the ram was pegged, so I assume the pauses were writing to pagefile. I also noted when I had a lot of stuff open and maybe something installing in the background it would use nearly all the ram and get little pauses. Considering how low cpu usage was in a game I really think this is just a bad choice of using 2GB for ram. Win10 might be lightweight but nothing else is any different so it chokes. Pity it is otherwise a capable unit.

 

[Kaido]

I've had the Kangaroo and am mostly impressed. Snappy enough for web surfing, watching videos and that sort of thing. Then I loaded World of Tanks and at the lowest settings it would have pauses. With Task Manager open the cpu wasn't even working too hard but the ram was pegged, so I assume the pauses were writing to pagefile. I also noted when I had a lot of stuff open and maybe something installing in the background it would use nearly all the ram and get little pauses. Considering how low cpu usage was in a game I really think this is just a bad choice of using 2GB for ram. Win10 might be lightweight but nothing else is any different so it chokes. Pity it is otherwise a capable unit.

Yeah I'd like to see an X7 unit with 4 gigs of RAM, plus a faster 64-gig SSD. I think that would help all around. Sad that even Minecraft on simple graphics stutters, but hey, it's $99! :awe:

The next few generations of HDMI sticks are going to see some serious improvements, I bet. A few years from now they'll probably be decently powerful for gaming too...

 

[RossMAN]

I'm sold on the Tronsmart/Kangaroo as my desktop replacement but need more RAM (8GB) and larger 2.5" SSD.

What are my Atom X5 options that allow more RAM/traditional SSD? I do not want to use a USB stick or microSD card for additional storage.

 

[Kaido]

I'm sold on the Tronsmart/Kangaroo as my desktop replacement but need more RAM (8GB) and larger 2.5" SSD.

What are my Atom X5 options that allow more RAM/traditional SSD? I do not want to use a USB stick or microSD card for additional storage.

Nada. Atom systems are SoC's...you get what you get. Think of it similar to a cell phone board...the specs that you get are simply what it comes with. You'll want to wait until they offer an X7 desktop with 8 gigs of RAM. Microsoft had first dibs on the X7 chip for their Surface 3; Teclast also has a tablet out now that you might be interest in:

http://www.geekbuying.com/item/Tecl...C-IPS-1920-1080-HDMI-WiDi---Black-357488.html

$360, runs Windows 10 & Android 5 (dual-boot), has the X7 with 8 gigs of RAM & a 64-gig SSD. It is a tablet, but it has Micro-HDMI out plus a USB 3.0 port, so you could simply use it as a super-compact desktop with a built-in battery backup using an HDMI adapter & a USB hub. Still not going to have much in the way of local storage due to the dual-boot configuration; probably better to wait for an X7/8GB/128gb configuration in a desktop box if you don't want to use additional storage.

 

[TeknoBug]

If you're familiar with the Pentium N3530 or N3700 then you'll see identical performance from the X7 except the X7 will have a better iGPU. I wouldn't settle with an X5 Z8300 due to its single-channel memory bandwidth which can be a bottleneck.

The next few generations of HDMI sticks are going to see some serious improvements, I bet. A few years from now they'll probably be decently powerful for gaming too...

I was considering an HDMI PC stick since it was on sale during Black Friday (ideal project for the CronusMAX adapter connection to the XB1/PS4 with a PC wheel like the Logitech G27), even a Z8300 would even be sufficient compared to the Z3775. Only thing that bugs me about a X5 or X7 in one of those is heat.

 

[Muse]

Youtube review of the Atom laptop/tablet I just bought

RCA Cambio W101 V2 2in1 Windows 10 Touchscreen Atom processor laptop/tablet w/ HDMI

Got it off Amazon yesterday using my Chase Freedom for 10% discount, $118.33 to my doorstep. That's barely more than I paid for the Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit upgrade for my Thinkpad T60. I'm really stoked, it's in shipment.

 

[TeknoBug]

Youtube review of the Atom laptop/tablet I just bought for $118.33 shipped!

RCA Cambio W101 V2 2in1 Windows 10 Touchscreen Atom processor laptop/tablet w/ HDMI

Got it off Amazon yesterday using my Chase Freedom for 10% discount. I'm really stoked, it's in shipment.

I saw the Viking laptop in the Canadian Tire flyer.

 

[Muse]

I saw the Viking laptop in the Canadian Tire flyer.

I think that's the version running Android 5.0 Lollipop.

Youtube unboxing and review of Android 5.0 Lollipop version

 

[Kaido]

Good news for Kangaroo fans, Infocus is showing off docking prototypes at CES:

http://liliputing.com/2016/01/infocus-shows-off-kangaroo-mini-pc-docking-accessory-prototypes.html

One prototype is a docking station with full-sized VGA, HDMI, Ethernet, and USB ports, as well as room for a 2.5 inch drive bay, allowing you to add a high-capacity hard drive to the 32GB of built-in storage already available on the Kangaro mini PC.

I wasn't an overly huge fan of the docking idea at first, but now that I have a Kangaroo, it is crazy useful, especially with the built-in battery. I have one that goes between my home desk setup, my TV, and work. Kind of like a laptop, but less hassle because I can literally just slide it into my jacket pocket. Still kind of niche usage, but still really neat!

 

[Kaido]

Pipo (boxmaker from China) just stepped up the X5 game:

http://liliputing.com/2016/01/pipo-...-mini-pc-with-up-to-4gb-ram-64gb-storage.html

$199 for an actively-cooled X5 with 4GB RAM & a 64gb SSD. NICE! These little dudes really need the extra RAM since the eMMC's on the newer models seem to be crap for speed (like the Tronsmart X5 clocked in at around 90mb/s, whereas the previous Baytrail stuff was doing like 160+), so virtual memory really seems to suffer when you start using the machine anything more than lightly. Would love to start seeing:

1. X7 desktops
2. More 4GB options & even 8GB options
3. 128gb SSD options
4. Newer M.2 options (not sure if it's in the chipset spec or not)...2,900mb/s would be awwwwwwesome!

 

[TeknoBug]

I'm considering picking up a Kangaroo, been hearing all good things about it.

 

[Kaido]

I'm considering picking up a Kangaroo, been hearing all good things about it.

It's just cool to own a full computer, complete with a Windows 10 license, for $99. That also has a built-in battery. And swappable docks. And hooks up to your TV. And plays 1080p Youtube just fine. It's lacking in a lot of other areas because it's an Atom X5 system, but heck, for $99, hard to complain!

 

[Raduque]

In contrast, Cherry Trail SoCs run pretty hot. It could be because of yields, or the fact the CPU cores have shrunk by 68% compared to Bay Trail and extracting the generated heat is A tougher task?
While gaming on my Surface 3 I've noticed it's always thermally throttled. If I could keep it cool with active cooling, I'm pretty sure it could stay pegged @ 2.4GHz on all the CPU cores and 600MHz on the GPU at full load, as it usually does before it gets up to the 84-85c range.

If anyone is interested in seeing some gaming vids on the Surface 3 - Here they are - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCyyGwCnUZ_H0Lns-SyUOZqhL6o2PDcS-

I use an On-screen-display (OSD) to show frame rates, usage, and temperatures. I should be getting a Core i5 SP3 soon, so I can make some comparisons.

.

Which OSD are you using?

Never mind, I figured it out.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Pipo (boxmaker from China) just stepped up the X5 game:

http://liliputing.com/2016/01/pipo-...-mini-pc-with-up-to-4gb-ram-64gb-storage.html

$199 for an actively-cooled X5 with 4GB RAM & a 64gb SSD. NICE! These little dudes really need the extra RAM since the eMMC's on the newer models seem to be crap for speed (like the Tronsmart X5 clocked in at around 90mb/s, whereas the previous Baytrail stuff was doing like 160+), so virtual memory really seems to suffer when you start using the machine anything more than lightly. Would love to start seeing:

1. X7 desktops
2. More 4GB options & even 8GB options
3. 128gb SSD options
4. Newer M.2 options (not sure if it's in the chipset spec or not)...2,900mb/s would be awwwwwwesome!

I was looking at the Pipo X6S a few days ago.

Any idea if you can install Windows 7 64-bit, and boot off of the SATA drive? That would be ideal for me. I'm not a huge fan of Windows 10. (It's passable, but meh.)

 

[Kaido]

I was looking at the Pipo X6S a few days ago.

Any idea if you can install Windows 7 64-bit, and boot off of the SATA drive? That would be ideal for me. I'm not a huge fan of Windows 10. (It's passable, but meh.)

I don't believe so & I can't remember why. I think it's a combination of lack of driver support, Secure Boot locked down in the BIOS, etc. Don't take that as set in stone though...

 

[you2]

Yea. I have problems installing windows 7 on the newer nucs. It can be done but it is a royal PIA. You have to hand-roll the drivers into a boot image (make a bootable usb stick with the original windows 7 image + drivers). Never going that route again. Windows 7 runs fine on my haswell refresh system but i suspect broadwell and beyond is pain. Hopefully my current system will last 5 more years (win 7 eol) ...

 

[kenzz]

I want to get another cheap mini pc so this thread and the Atom Z3735F thread at http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2424482 are very useful. I already have an HP Stream Mini and found that I had to upgrade the 32GB SSD because W8.1 with Bing with updates and the software I needed to install quickly filled up the 32GB.

I'm happy with the HP Mini with the upgrade to 128GB as my main desktop but I want an additional mini PC for basic browsing, Kodi and online Office etc. I tried a cheap Chinese Android box but the build quality was poor and I found I prefer W10. For my purposes it seems to me that possibly the Atom Z3735F mini pc's may be the better option because they run 32 bit W10 which I've read has an installation size of a few GB less than 64 bit W10 and would fit better on the 32GB SSD. I doubt I need a 64 bit system and 2GB RAM seems OK therefore I'm considering either a Minix Z64 Windows at about $147 or a Zotac Zbox PI320 at about $180 both of which have Atom Z3735F cpu's. It appears the Minix runs cooler and has better wifi but the Zotac has an extra USB port and looks better ... just thinking aloud but having typed all that it seems I've probably convinced myself the Minix at $147 is the better option.

If I felt I needed a 64 bit system then I doubt I'd buy a mini pc with only a 32GB SSD.

 

[Kaido]

I want to get another cheap mini pc so this thread and the Atom Z3735F thread at http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2424482 are very useful. I already have an HP Stream Mini and found that I had to upgrade the 32GB SSD because W8.1 with Bing with updates and the software I needed to install quickly filled up the 32GB.

I'm happy with the HP Mini with the upgrade to 128GB as my main desktop but I want an additional mini PC for basic browsing, Kodi and online Office etc. I tried a cheap Chinese Android box but the build quality was poor and I found I prefer W10. For my purposes it seems to me that possibly the Atom Z3735F mini pc's may be the better option because they run 32 bit W10 which I've read has an installation size of a few GB less than 64 bit W10 and would fit better on the 32GB SSD. I doubt I need a 64 bit system and 2GB RAM seems OK therefore I'm considering either a Minix Z64 Windows at about $147 or a Zotac Zbox PI320 at about $180 both of which have Atom Z3735F cpu's. It appears the Minix runs cooler and has better wifi but the Zotac has an extra USB port and looks better ... just thinking aloud but having typed all that it seems I've probably convinced myself the Minix at $147 is the better option.

If I felt I needed a 64 bit system then I doubt I'd buy a mini pc with only a 32GB SSD.

So far, I've had a really good experience with the MINIX. I swapped out a company nearly entirely with MINIX boxes recently & they are rock-solid...run cool, good wifi, fast SSD. The Baytrail-T is obviously limited in performance, but for non-power users, it is fine. I'm sure we'll be seeing more X5/X7 stuff over the next year. Looking down the road, if they could do an X5 with 4 gigs of RAM & really I'd say a 128gb SSD, that would be a much more sufficient machine. 64-gigs would be waaaaaay better than 32, but really a 128-gig drive is what you'd need to be reasonably comfortable. And the X5 & X7 support up to 8 gigs of RAM each (just checked, the ARK page for the X5 now says 8 gigs instead of 2 gigs; a story broke not too long ago about it supporting 4 gigs on available hardware, so it may have been an oversight to only have originally listed support for 2 gigs).

I have the Zotac; the extra USB port is nice, although it gets a little warm for my tastes. If the MINIX had 3 USB ports, it'd be the perfect machine. But the MINIX also runs cool & has an external antenna. If a user needs more ports, I just get them a slim 4-port USB hub for $7:

http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-4-Port-Individual-Switches-HB-UMLS/dp/B00BWF5U0M/

While the MINIX does have its cons, once it's put into service, it's amazing. No fans, doesn't get hot, no noise, no vents to clean out, etc. It's like strapping a hockey puck to your monitor or TV. And keep in mind that it does have a MicroSD port, so you can easily add storage without adding bulk to the unit with an external drive. Oh, and if you order off Amazon, make sure you get a Windows model & not an Android model! (same hardware, different OS, but both show up in search results)

 

[kenzz]

So far, I've had a really good experience with the MINIX. I swapped out a company nearly entirely with MINIX boxes recently & they are rock-solid...run cool, good wifi, fast SSD. ...................

While the MINIX does have its cons, once it's put into service, it's amazing. No fans, doesn't get hot, no noise, no vents to clean out, etc. ...............

Kaido, many thanks for the Minix information. Normally I don't buy relatively unproven Chinese brands because of previous bad experiences but I've no regrets after now buying the Minix. I am impressed with good, solid quality build and I think the only PC I've bought that was literally plug&play out of the box ... minimilistic win10 factory install and no messing about uninstalling bloatware etc.

It is what it is ... good wifi with external aerial ... fixed 2GB ram and 32Gb ssd so no temptation to unnecessarily spend money upgrading ... fast ssd allows for good compression of win10 ... 32bit win10 has about 4GB less installation size than 64bit. Compressed size of updated 32bit win10 is about 5.5GB plus about 1.5GB for hiberfyl and pagefile leaves about 20GB free on the ssd. For me, that's eminently usable free space even if win10 doubles installation size with future updates over the years and it's highly unlikely I'd need to use 64bit software on a PC like this.

 

[Kaido]

Kaido, many thanks for the Minix information. Normally I don't buy relatively unproven Chinese brands because of previous bad experiences but I've no regrets after now buying the Minix. I am impressed with good, solid quality build and I think the only PC I've bought that was literally plug&play out of the box ... minimilistic win10 factory install and no messing about uninstalling bloatware etc.

It is what it is ... good wifi with external aerial ... fixed 2GB ram and 32Gb ssd so no temptation to unnecessarily spend money upgrading ... fast ssd allows for good compression of win10 ... 32bit win10 has about 4GB less installation size than 64bit. Compressed size of updated 32bit win10 is about 5.5GB plus about 1.5GB for hiberfyl and pagefile leaves about 20GB free on the ssd. For me, that's eminently usable free space even if win10 doubles installation size with future updates over the years and it's highly unlikely I'd need to use 64bit software on a PC like this.

The upcoming Z-series Braswell MINIX 4K Windows models should solve pretty much all of our complaints:

http://liliputing.com/2015/08/minix-unveils-a-mini-pc-with-intel-braswell.html

* Two CPU's available: Celeron N3150 & Pentium N3700
* 128gb M.2 SSD (Toshiba MLC)
* 4GB RAM
* Now has two antennas instead of one (802.11ac MIMO dual-band wifi)
* Both antennas are removable (I primarily use them wired to Ethernet myself, so that's nice)
* Now has 3 USB ports
* All USB ports are USB 3.0
* Case is metal alloy instead of plastic (due to heat consumption, although they are still fanless!)
* Has HDMI & Mini DisplayPort video ports (I'm assuming it supports dual monitors)
* TOSlink audio port
* Kensington port (great for businesses & schools)
* Ships with Windows 10

No set price, but you can place a pre-order here:

http://www.geekbuying.com/item/Pre-order-MINIX-NEO-Z-Series-Windows-10-TV-Box-353191/

imo this will be the box to beat in the low-power arena. Absolutely perfect. Crossing my fingers that the Pentium will be offered with 8 gigs of RAM, but 4 will suffice otherwise. This would replace the HP Stream Mini for my dual-monitor budget projects for sure!

 

[VirtualLarry]

The upcoming Z-series Braswell MINIX 4K Windows models should solve pretty much all of our complaints:

http://liliputing.com/2015/08/minix-unveils-a-mini-pc-with-intel-braswell.html

* Two CPU's available: Celeron N3150 & Pentium N3700
* 128gb M.2 SSD (Toshiba MLC)
* 4GB RAM
* Now has two antennas instead of one (802.11ac MIMO dual-band wifi)
* Both antennas are removable (I primarily use them wired to Ethernet myself, so that's nice)
* Now has 3 USB ports
* All USB ports are USB 3.0
* Case is metal alloy instead of plastic (due to heat consumption, although they are still fanless!)
* Has HDMI & Mini DisplayPort video ports (I'm assuming it supports dual monitors)
* TOSlink audio port
* Kensington port (great for businesses & schools)
* Ships with Windows 10

No set price, but you can place a pre-order here:

http://www.geekbuying.com/item/Pre-order-MINIX-NEO-Z-Series-Windows-10-TV-Box-353191/

imo this will be the box to beat in the low-power arena. Absolutely perfect. Crossing my fingers that the Pentium will be offered with 8 gigs of RAM, but 4 will suffice otherwise. This would replace the HP Stream Mini for my dual-monitor budget projects for sure!

does it have Gigabit ethernet?

 

[Kaido]

does it have Gigabit ethernet?

Yup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-YGWBan9o

@ 1:34:

That will be super nice since the current MINIX Z64 only has 10/100. Per this thread, it looks like the units are upgradable:

http://www.minixforum.com/threads/new-neo-z-with-intel-braswell.7512/

Even the Celeron supports up to 8 gigs of RAM:

http://ark.intel.com/products/87258/Intel-Celeron-Processor-N3150-2M-Cache-up-to-2_08-GHz

imo this unit will replace both the existing Z64 & the HP Stream Mini very nicely. The thread mentioned they were due out last November but apparently had heat issues with the ventless design, and also that they would be potentially sold in two configurations: Celeron/4GB/128gb SSD for $250, and Pentium/8GB/128gb SSD for $350. Excellent pricing...$350 for a 4K PC with dual monitor support, a fanless design, 8 gigs of RAM, reasonably-sized 128-gig SSD, Gigitbit Ethernet, etc. sounds super reasonable. Plus on the Pentium:

The HD Graphics (Braswell) is based on the Intel Gen8 architecture, which supports DirectX 11.2 and is also found in the Broadwell series (e.g. HD Graphics 5300). With 16 EUs (Execution Units) and a clock speed of up to 700 MHz, the GPU is about twice as fast as the HD Graphics (Bay Trail), but still not powerful enough to handle demanding 3D games of 2015. The GPU also supports 4K/H.265 video acceleration.

This would be the perfect Office PC box, as well as the perfect HTPC media streamer box. I'll definitely be picking up the Pentium model for home if the specs & pricing are in line with the rumors!

 

[TeknoBug]

I think this'll be on my to get list, going to research how good the N3150 is (which is thankfully quad core instead of dual core) before choosing between that and the N3700. Already got a N3530 laptop so I have a decent idea of how the Pentium is (not the greatest in some areas).

 

[you2]

Doesnt' seem sold anywhere. Also not sure $350 is a good price as you can find i3 nucs for 250 (then another $40 for ram and $50 for ssd); i think the mobile i3 is a bit faster than the pentinum; but perhaps i'm missing something obvious ?

Yup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-YGWBan9o

@ 1:34:

That will be super nice since the current MINIX Z64 only has 10/100. Per this thread, it looks like the units are upgradable:

http://www.minixforum.com/threads/new-neo-z-with-intel-braswell.7512/

Even the Celeron supports up to 8 gigs of RAM:

http://ark.intel.com/products/87258/Intel-Celeron-Processor-N3150-2M-Cache-up-to-2_08-GHz

imo this unit will replace both the existing Z64 & the HP Stream Mini very nicely. The thread mentioned they were due out last November but apparently had heat issues with the ventless design, and also that they would be potentially sold in two configurations: Celeron/4GB/128gb SSD for $250, and Pentium/8GB/128gb SSD for $350. Excellent pricing...$350 for a 4K PC with dual monitor support, a fanless design, 8 gigs of RAM, reasonably-sized 128-gig SSD, Gigitbit Ethernet, etc. sounds super reasonable. Plus on the Pentium:



This would be the perfect Office PC box, as well as the perfect HTPC media streamer box. I'll definitely be picking up the Pentium model for home if the specs & pricing are in line with the rumors!