ATOT Golfers, I need your advice!

[z1ggy]

I am looking to get back into golf gain. I haven't played in like 10 years and only recently found some old clubs in my basement. I have a decent driver, 3 & 5 wood, along with a few irons (2,3,4) and putter.

I found a few things on ebay but I really have no clue what is a good deal and what isn't. Should I just buy the cheapest set of irons that are in decent shape?

I'm leaning toward a set of Titleist DTR irons, 3-PW for $105. They are used and seem to be in good shape.

 

[dank69]

Yes, no point really spending much until you get serious. The clubs aren't going to make a lot of difference for most players.

 

[richardycc]

2-4 irons? and Titleist irons from the 90's? don't bother, you are just setting yourself up to quit again.

 

[z1ggy]

2-4 irons? and Titleist irons from the 90's? don't bother, you are just setting yourself up to quit again.

I'd include the link but these don't seem to be from the 90's... They look more like the modern irons with the machined out back side, etc. Then again, I honestly have no idea what is what.

What would you suggest then? For somebody like me, I don't mind a set of clubs that's maybe like 10 years old if they used to be top of the line.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

First, toss off the 2-3-4 that you have. They're gonna suck and unless you're really good you won't be able to hit them well. At best they'd stay in the bag because you were afraid to hit them, at worst you'd try to use them and they'd cost you strokes. Why bother? Get yourself a set of inexpensive irons like 5-PW and hopefully one or two hybrids in place of the long irons.

Titleist DTRs are circa late 80s. The good news is that irons have not really advanced much technologically since then, so those would be playable. But you can do better and hopefully get something newer and a little less expensive that includes a hybrid or two in place of the 3 and 4 irons. Lemme take a look around ebay, see what we can find that will be better suited for you than those DTRs.

 

[z1ggy]

First, toss off the 2-3-4 that you have. They're gonna suck and unless you're really good you won't be able to hit them well. At best they'd stay in the bag because you were afraid to hit them, at worst you'd try to use them and they'd cost you strokes. Why bother? Get yourself a set of inexpensive irons like 5-PW and hopefully one or two hybrids in place of the long irons.

Titleist DTRs are circa late 80s. The good news is that irons have not really advanced much technologically since then, so those would be playable. But you can do better and hopefully get something newer and a little less expensive that includes a hybrid or two in place of the 3 and 4 irons. Lemme take a look around ebay, see what we can find that will be better suited for you than those DTRs.

Thanks!!

Also, I am a lefty, so if you look just keep that in mind.

 

[vi edit]

Thanks!!

Also, I am a lefty, so if you look just keep that in mind.

You are entering a world of pain. Trust me as another lefty. The golf world hates us. You can walk into those golf warehouse places that have 200 putters on a wall. 2 of them will be lefties. There will be 1 set of lefty irons hanging on the wall.

No love for the southpaws in this game.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Okay, I have no idea what these will actually sell for, but they're much more in line with what you need. Watch them and get an idea of final prices. Ideally you want something with a hybrid or two or even three replacing long irons and the regular irons starting around the 5i or 6i.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-LH-ADAM...465?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d5b33a7c1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Callaway-Go...467?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5678b346e3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adams-Idea-...282?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58c92df8d2

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nickent-Gen...518?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item542183eb96


Failing that, look for a short set of 5-PW or 5-GW of regular irons without any hybrids and just buy a 3h or 4h to add in. Something like these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TITLEIST-AP...145?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item54220270c1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LH-Tommy-Ar...757?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b15b6c245


or heck, even try something like this which is a full set, but still in that $100 range:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LH-Nickent-...857?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43e00a33e1

 

[z1ggy]

Tommy Armour.. Haha have never heard of them before. I like your choices though, I will keep my eye on these for sure.

Also, out of those choices you linked, which would you say was the best deal? That full set for $100 seems awesome, but is the quality up to par...??


...See the funny I added in there???!

 

[Fritzo]

Yeah, hit the garage sales. I got a full set of TaylorMade and an Odyssey putter for $75 (including the bag!). Golfers are often older, and they don't know how to sell stuff on Craigslist or eBay, so they just give it away

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Tommy Armour.. Haha have never heard of them before. I like your choices though, I will keep my eye on these for sure.

Also, out of those choices you linked, which would you say was the best deal? That full set for $100 seems awesome, but is the quality up to par...??


...See the funny I added in there???!

Tommy Armour is excellent. When they were still around they were as well respected as anyone in the biz. The quality of Nickent is very good, another brand that should have been successful, but fell victim to bad business decisions rather than bad products.

You have to understand that pretty much all the major brands are produced in the same Chinese foundries and assembled in the same Chinese sweatshops by the same laborers. Even the uber-cheap knockoffs and clones are coming off the same lines made of the same materials as the big boys. The only difference between a $1000 set of Nikes and a $200 set of something else is that Nike has to pay Tiger to pretend he uses the stuff.

It's amazing how quickly the golf landscape changes. Those Titleist DTRs you mentioned earlier were from the 80s. At that time Titleist was okay, Wilson, Ram, Ping and Hogan were the real high end brands played by the most successful tour pros and stuff like Spalding and Northwestern were the bargain brands. Callaway was a niche product making fake wooden shafted clubs, Taylormade had just come out and sold nothing but metal woods, Nike didn't have any golf products. Bidgestone, Srixon and Adams didn't exist. By the 90s Ram was pretty much gone, Wilson was fading, Hogan was fading, Tommy Armour and Mizuno were rising, Nike still didn't exist until much later in the decade, Taylormade tried to expand from metalwoods to full line and their stuff SUCKED. Callaway took off thanks to the Big Bertha and good marketing. Spalding bought Hogan, then Callway bought Spalding to get their ball patents, Taylormade bought other peoples designs and finally made decent clubs, then marketed the shit out of it and got successful, Adams rose, fell, rose again, it's been crazy.

The real problem now is that the USGA and the R&A have locked down real innovation. Nothing has truly improved in the equipment area in more than 10 years. The balls are the same multi-layer urethane cover, 460cc titanium drivers were around then and have not been allowed to grow or get "hotter", hybrids are the same, wedges are the same, irons are the same, putters are the same. The industry tried square drivers, those failed. They tried triangular drivers, those failed. They tried moveable weights, those failed. The big thing now is adjustability. Great for fitting, but once you dial it in you never change it, so even that doesn't make the clubs better. You could easily buy stuff from 12-15 years ago and it would not be one iota worse than the stuff rolling off the assembly line now. Hell, there are guys on tour that are still using Ping irons from the 80s, fairway woods from the 90s and balls that are several model lines old because they like those better than the newer ones. Nike in particular has a bunch of their staffers using 8 year old Tour One D balls because the20xi that replaced it sucked and the RZN that replaced the 20xi sucked worse.

Don't get caught up in names or newest and shiniest. It's all pretty much the same stuff and whether you can play or not is entirely up to you, not the clubs. As you're essentially a beginner you want easy to hit and something that suits your talent level (or lack thereof), not top of the line or tour level or latest and greatest.

 

[z1ggy]

Tommy Armour is excellent. When they were still around they were as well respected as anyone in the biz. The quality of Nickent is very good, another brand that should have been successful, but fell victim to bad business decisions rather than bad products.

You have to understand that pretty much all the major brands are produced in the same Chinese foundries and assembled in the same Chinese sweatshops by the same laborers. Even the uber-cheap knockoffs and clones are coming off the same lines made of the same materials as the big boys. The only difference between a $1000 set of Nikes and a $200 set of something else is that Nike has to pay Tiger to pretend he uses the stuff.

It's amazing how quickly the golf landscape changes. Those Titleist DTRs you mentioned earlier were from the 80s. At that time Titleist was okay, Wilson, Ram, Ping and Hogan were the real high end brands played by the most successful tour pros and stuff like Spalding and Northwestern were the bargain brands. Callaway was a niche product making fake wooden shafted clubs, Taylormade had just come out and sold nothing but metal woods, Nike didn't have any golf products. Bidgestone, Srixon and Adams didn't exist. By the 90s Ram was pretty much gone, Wilson was fading, Hogan was fading, Tommy Armour and Mizuno were rising, Nike still didn't exist until much later in the decade, Taylormade tried to expand from metalwoods to full line and their stuff SUCKED. Callaway took off thanks to the Big Bertha and good marketing. Spalding bought Hogan, then Callway bought Spalding to get their ball patents, Taylormade bought other peoples designs and finally made decent clubs, then marketed the shit out of it and got successful, Adams rose, fell, rose again, it's been crazy.

The real problem now is that the USGA and the R&A have locked down real innovation. Nothing has truly improved in the equipment area in more than 10 years. The balls are the same multi-layer urethane cover, 460cc titanium drivers were around then and have not been allowed to grow or get "hotter", hybrids are the same, wedges are the same, irons are the same, putters are the same. The industry tried square drivers, those failed. They tried triangular drivers, those failed. They tried moveable weights, those failed. The big thing now is adjustability. Great for fitting, but once you dial it in you never change it, so even that doesn't make the clubs better. You could easily buy stuff from 12-15 years ago and it would not be one iota worse than the stuff rolling off the assembly line now. Hell, there are guys on tour that are still using Ping irons from the 80s, fairway woods from the 90s and balls that are several model lines old because they like those better than the newer ones. Nike in particular has a bunch of their staffers using 8 year old Tour One D balls because the20xi that replaced it sucked and the RZN that replaced the 20xi sucked worse.

Don't get caught up in names or newest and shiniest. It's all pretty much the same stuff and whether you can play or not is entirely up to you, not the clubs. As you're essentially a beginner you want easy to hit and something that suits your talent level (or lack thereof), not top of the line or tour level or latest and greatest.

Wow that's really insightful, thanks!! Definately sounds like I want to go used clubs.

Have you ever heard of Intech? That's the brand of my current clubs. At the range the driver honestly felt the same as my roommates new callaway, but maybe a bit less stiff.

 

[Papagayo]

Don't get Intech or acuity, the quality just isn't there... You can find Used major brands (callaway, Wilson, Taylormade, etc) cheap. Especially for a lefty.

Make sure to get a cavity irons set, if you are a beginner.

I don't recommend getting a complete set.

Purchase the Driver, fairway, putter separately.

Most cases, the standards for the Driver are pretty much set, but not the shaft.
Shaft make a huge difference on a Driver and Fairway woods.

Try going to Golf Galaxy or Golf Smith and try a used clubs. Sometimes you can get a great deals. Leftys tend to be cheaper, because the demand isn't there.

Example of good clubs..:
Mizuno MX 23 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mizuno-MX-23-Iron-Set-5-PW-Regular-Left-Handed-Steel-Golf-Clubs-953-/161764114619?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a9e480bb

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-TaylorMade-RocketBladez-Iron-Set-6-PW-Graphite-Stiff-Flex-LH-Box-3-/141725819994?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ff84645a

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Wow that's really insightful, thanks!! Definately sounds like I want to go used clubs.

Have you ever heard of Intech? That's the brand of my current clubs. At the range the driver honestly felt the same as my roommates new callaway, but maybe a bit less stiff.

Intech in this generations equivalent to something like Northwestern or Spalding was 20 years ago. It's sold places like Wal-Mart or Sports Authority for a lot less than tour brands. As a result it's bought mostly by beginners and mostly it's built to suitable for beginners and people who play less frequently. For a person just getting back into the game it's completely fine. Completely. An "off" brand like Intech that fits you and is suitable for your skill level will perform much better than a set that costs 10 times more and doesn't fit. Think of golf clubs like you would think of shoes. If you're a size 10, you can get a pair of size 10 sneakers for $15 from Wal-Mart, lace them up and play basketball successfully, but if you spend $400 on the latest and greatest Air Jordan model in size 15, you're gonna go out, stumble around and probably hurt yourself. Tour level clubs not only won't help you, they'll hurt you. They'll be too stiff or have too little forgiveness, won't have enough loft, will spin the ball too much, etc etc. It's like picking up groceries in an Indy Car. You want softer and friendlier, not what Phil and Tiger are hitting.

Even Callaway is mostly an ego club. The manufacturers learned that players WANT to be able to play like the pros, but can't. Almost all men buy clubs that are too stiff and have too little loft because they think they're better than they really are. Eli Callaway was one of the first to recognize that, so he built his clubs faked. The shafts marked stiff were really regular. The drivers marked 8.5* were really 10.5*, etc. So guys bought with their ego, purchased something that was stiffer than they needed and because the club specs were faked they got what they needed even if they didn't get what they thought they were buying. and it worked. So the other manufacturers followed suit. Specs are faked, drivers will have shafts that have the same label as what the tour pros are playing, but are made MUCH softer and cheaper. Iron lofts are jacked up so that a club that say 9 on the bottom is the same length and loft as a traditional 7 iron, so a guy picks up the set, hits the new "9 iron" as far as his current 7 iron and buys the set without knowing that it's all a charade.

I had a set of Wilson Staff tour blades in the 80s when it was THE club to have. The pitching wedge was 52 degrees and 35 inches long. The 9 iron was 48* and 35.5" and the 8 iron was 44* and 36" inches long. That was common for the time, those were standard lofts and club lengths. Each iron got 1/2" longer and about 4* stronger as you went through the set. Now a pitching wedge is 36" and 44* or even 42* degrees. That's where the gap wedge came from, the irons got stronger specs so the manufacturer could fool players into thinking the new clubs were longer and better, so they needed some new clubs to fit in between the 44* PW and the 56* SW. So now you have a club thats really an 8-iron, but says PW on the bottom and you have a new 48* AW and a 52* GW to fill in the space where the 9iron and pitching wedge used to be. Drivers used to be 43" long, now they're 46" and some are even 47". Most amateurs can't hit drivers that long, even the pros can't make solid contact at 47" and play their drivers at 45" or so. But the 47" models can be swung faster, if more wildly. So a player walks into a pro shop and demos 2 drivers on a launch monitor. One is 45" long and lets say he swings it at 90MPH so the machine will extrapolate that out and say that the ball went 220 yards or so. Then he'll demo the 46" driver and since it's longer the arc increases and the swing speed jumps to 100MPH and the launch monitor says the ball went 250. Which one will he buy? No brainer, of course the one that says 100MPH and 250 yards. Then he gets it on the course, can't make solid contact because it's too damn long, he hits pop ups and ground balls and gets worse and rather than growing a brain he goes back to the pro shop and buys another new driver that's ever longer and harder to make contact, but the machine says he swings it 105MPH, so it must be better, right?

At least half the guys I play with get new clubs every year or two and never ever ever get better. You'd think they'd learn, but they don't. Golfers always want to buy a better game rather than building it through practice.

 

[z1ggy]

snip

Thanks so much, youre being extremely helpful. All this info is so Interesting. Its funny you mentioned the callaway thing. My roommate who told me to het stiff callaway clubs hits the ball shorter than I do, even though im using probably 20 year old "intermediate" flex clubs for drivers.

I thought his drivers was crazy stiff compared to mine. Didnt like.

Im going to put an offer in on ebay on those Nickent 3Dx for $70 to see if thAt will work out.

Im also a huge believer in that the gear doesn't make the player. My regular hockey stick is a mid tier stick, even though I own expensive top models, too. Its just too much stick for me...I know I would not like your model clubs because I imagine it's the same thing.

 

[Papagayo]

Thanks so much, youre being extremely helpful. All this info is so Interesting. Its funny you mentioned the callaway thing. My roommate who told me to het stiff callaway clubs hits the ball shorter than I do, even though im using probably 20 year old "intermediate" flex clubs for drivers.

I thought his drivers was crazy stiff compared to mine. Didnt like.

Im going to put an offer in on ebay on those Nickent 3Dx for $70 to see if thAt will work out.

Im also a huge believer in that the gear doesn't make the player. My regular hockey stick is a mid tier stick, even though I own expensive top models, too. Its just too much stick for me...I know I would not like your model clubs because I imagine it's the same thing.

Nickent is good. I have both the 4Dx and 3Dx. My son uses the 3Dx and my dad uses 4Dx.. I also uses their hybrids..

Good luck.. In golf, you will have good days and bad days.. For me it seems mostly bad days, but I still love it.

 

[Muse]

Go to a shop where there's a person who can fit you, tell you what length shaft, etc. you need. Armed with that info you can make a smart decision what used clubs to get. You want clubs that are reasonably suited to you.

That said, a guy on the course a couple of days ago said that Bubba Watson likes to go to the course and play with just one club. He played 18 holes with just a 7 iron and scored 73! I heard a couple of years ago that he spent the winter practicing nothing but putts under 10 feet. His short putting reflects that now. Putting is such a huge part of the game.

When I was about 21 I learned by:

1. Checking out Ben Hogan's Five Lessons from the library
2. I Hit a large bucket of balls and practiced putting 7 days/week for 6 months

By then I was close to a single digit handicap. Then I stopped playing. I play now, my goal is to get to single digit handicap. At times it feels like I'm almost there, but today I faltered. I love the game!

You are entering a world of pain. Trust me as another lefty. The golf world hates us. You can walk into those golf warehouse places that have 200 putters on a wall. 2 of them will be lefties. There will be 1 set of lefty irons hanging on the wall.

No love for the southpaws in this game.

I still use the Bullseye putter I bought new at the proshop at my home course in L.A. in 1965, only putter I've ever used on an 18 hole course. It works the same for lefties as righties. Corey Paven uses the same putter.

 

[Muse]

Helluva post there, GagHalfrunt, I haven't yet read your others but the one starting with "Tommy Armour is excellent" just amazed me.

I bought an Adams Tom Watson 3 wedge set for $50 shipped exactly 4 years ago. I like them. Also bought a set of mixed cavity back and regular Golfsmith forged irons for $270 shipped over 10 years ago. The gal I took lessons from last year wanted me to get a new set with graphite shafts, but I haven't bothered to look into it. She recommends a certain guy to fit them.

My Taylormade woods (bought slightly used, cheap, online) are a few years old but I figure they're fine, that the newer stuff is marginally better (if that, judging by your post!). My focus is on me, not the equipment! I played with a guy Monday who told me he has 11 drivers! He was driving the ball all over the place and mostly I was hitting them straight and decently long. I don't give the idea of replacing my 10.5 degree driver (or 3 wood or hybrid) a 2nd thought.

A guy I played with has encouraged me to get another hybrid. That, I would consider, ditching my 3 iron. I already play without my 4 iron.

 

[BUTCH1]

First, toss off the 2-3-4 that you have. They're gonna suck and unless you're really good you won't be able to hit them well. At best they'd stay in the bag because you were afraid to hit them, at worst you'd try to use them and they'd cost you strokes. Why bother? Get yourself a set of inexpensive irons like 5-PW and hopefully one or two hybrids in place of the long irons.

Titleist DTRs are circa late 80s. The good news is that irons have not really advanced much technologically since then, so those would be playable. But you can do better and hopefully get something newer and a little less expensive that includes a hybrid or two in place of the 3 and 4 irons. Lemme take a look around ebay, see what we can find that will be better suited for you than those DTRs.

Agree and an issue with used clubs is the condition of the grips, if they've been laying around someone's basement for years the grips will be most likely worn-out or dry rotted and trying to re-learn the game with the club twisting every shot will get frustrating fast. The good news is re-gripping can be done at home fairly cheap and even paying someone it's not horribly expensive.

 

[BUTCH1]

Go to a shop where there's a person who can fit you, tell you what length shaft, etc. you need. Armed with that info you can make a smart decision what used clubs to get. You want clubs that are reasonably suited to you.

That said, a guy on the course a couple of days ago said that Bubba Watson likes to go to the course and play with just one club. He played 18 holes with just a 7 iron and scored 73! I heard a couple of years ago that he spent the winter practicing nothing but putts under 10 feet. His short putting reflects that now. Putting is such a huge part of the game.

When I was about 21 I learned by:

1. Checking out Ben Hogan's Five Lessons from the library
2. I Hit a large bucket of balls and practiced putting 7 days/week for 6 months

By then I was close to a single digit handicap. Then I stopped playing. I play now, my goal is to get to single digit handicap. At times it feels like I'm almost there, but today I faltered. I love the game!I still use the Bullseye putter I bought new at the proshop at my home course in L.A. in 1965, only putter I've ever used on an 18 hole course. It works the same for lefties as righties. Corey Paven uses the same putter.

Did you just practice putting or I'm assuming you hit a lot of balls at the range.

 

[Muse]

Did you just practice putting or I'm assuming you hit a lot of balls at the range.

In those days (~1965) I would hit a large bucket of balls every day. I would also practice my putting daily while at the course/range/practice-putting green. This was at my home course, a drive of maybe 10 minutes or less. I got to where I was pretty consistent. It was hard to get a tee time there, Rancho Park, much easier just to hit balls. That's really how Ricky Fowler learned the game. He hounded the range in his home town. But he started earlier than I did.

 

[Papagayo]

In those days (~1965) I would hit a large bucket of balls every day. I would also practice my putting daily while at the course/range/practice-putting green. This was at my home course, a drive of maybe 10 minutes or less. I got to where I was pretty consistent. It was hard to get a tee time there, Rancho Park, much easier just to hit balls. That's really how Ricky Fowler learned the game. He hounded the range in his home town. But he started earlier than I did.

I'm sure that bucket of balls were lot cheaper in 1965 also. Bucket of balls in my area are around 8-10 dollars.

Golf can get very expensive, I always look for deals. Take initial lessons to get your basics correct.

 

[BUTCH1]

In those days (~1965) I would hit a large bucket of balls every day. I would also practice my putting daily while at the course/range/practice-putting green. This was at my home course, a drive of maybe 10 minutes or less. I got to where I was pretty consistent. It was hard to get a tee time there, Rancho Park, much easier just to hit balls. That's really how Ricky Fowler learned the game. He hounded the range in his home town. But he started earlier than I did.

Yea, I agree that range-time is much more productive than playing, it's just that playing was so much more fun.

 

[Muse]

Yea, I agree that range-time is much more productive than playing, it's just that playing was so much more fun.

So true, but course time on Rancho in those days was so hard to come by that it made me nervous (not sure it was then, but at one time it was the busiest public course in the country, which would make it the busiest, period!). Several times I was maybe 38 on the front but couldn't duplicate on the back nine and failed to break 80. Alas, my life turned topsy turvy and I didn't put my hand on a club until almost 20 years later, when I played just a single round with my then house mates. I played bogey golf that day, almost beating them all. I took it up again some years later, for real.

I'm going to my home course tomorrow and practice putt, hit balls (not a large bucket, my body protests!), then practice putt some more. Not as much fun as playing, no, but my goal is to get really good so I feel compelled to hit the range once a week as well as play (I'm playing 2x/week when the weather is decent, i.e. ~6 months/year).

 

[Muse]

I'm sure that bucket of balls were lot cheaper in 1965 also. Bucket of balls in my area are around 8-10 dollars.

Golf can get very expensive, I always look for deals. Take initial lessons to get your basics correct.

Yeah, deals are all over the place in the golf world. If money is a concern to you.... They will gouge you if you don't pay attention, a lot of people who play golf have plenty of money, that's the thing. You can spend a small fortune playing golf, clubs, equipment, lessons, golf vacations, big green fees, extremely expensive country clubs, plenty of people are after your money.

Here's a fantastically great article from Golf Digest on what it's like playing on different kinds of courses:

Public And Private Golf Are Their Own Unique, Vexing Experiences

Uh, that large bucket of balls in 1965 cost me one dollar!