ATOT: Lend my your bathroom-remodeling/real-estate ears!

[stinkynathan]

First, we live in a 1920s Cape Cod house. It's perfect for a starter house, has some decent updates, and the price was right. We payed just over $100k for it. We just built a new, detached garage. We have one full bathroom on the main level. We are stubbed in for a toilet downstairs, and I'm pretty sure I could get a sink in there, but that's about it.

That said, the only bathroom is awful. The vanity is nasty, the floor (stick-on tiles) is peeling, the tub is gross and not leveled properly, the plumbing is getting slower for the second time in a year.

We've decided we're remodeling in the near future. Probably spring. Here's the rub.

She thinks we should just gut the room and replace everything with new stuff in the same place. She thinks that in a house like this there absolutely MUST be a full bath tub somewhere for little kids. I don't think she's ever taken a bath in this house. She also doesn't see the need for more vanity/counter space in there, because unlike most women, she get's ready in her office/spare bedroom where all of her clothes are stored.

I think we should tap into the mostly unused closet in my "office" by putting a shower base there with tiled walls. This will make the room seem a ton bigger, will allow us to put in a decent-sized vanity (I work for a custom cabinet shop), and give the toilet a little more room.

I'm not sure that I buy the kids in the bathtub thing and I KNOW she'll love the extra room once it's actually there. From a selling-the-house standpoint I'm torn. I see potential buyers hating the small room and counter space if we just swap things out. I also see them not enjoying the lack of full bathtub if we do it my way. What say you?

Now the questions:

1. Are we going to affect our ability to sell this house in 7 years if we do my plan and ditch the full tub?

2. Am I going to want to shoot myself in the face once we have our first kid and don't have a full bath tub?

3. What are my options for tub/shower bases that would fit in a ~51"x38" RO?

4. Who is right?

EDIT: I apparently forgot what we talked about at supper last night. She wants to do something more like this, but I just don't think there's enough room without reconfiguring quite a bit.

 

[nanette1985]

If your "office" is actually a bedroom, getting rid of the closet might be a drawback when you sell the house.

Suggestion: take a look at other houses for sale in your price range and see how many have showers.

 

[waffleironhead]

Look into a Sea Wave IV, or similar, it would fit into that corner quite well, and leave the bathroom more open.

I sold quite a few of these when I was in retail.

 

[MotF Bane]

By the fact you are saying "office", with the quotations, I suspect that your office is a converted bedroom. Leave the closet for it. The best you could do is reduce the closet depth, but that's going to be cost prohibitive for the small increase in bathroom space.

Unfortunately, you're stuck with precious little space. And I agree with your wife - keep the full bathtub if you a) plan to have children or b) plan to sell the house. Is that all you have in the bathroom; a tub, a vanity, and a toilet? No cabinets, no closet?

 

[Greenman]

1 tub in a house is almost a must, kids and dogs both use it. If your office is actually a bedroom, giving up the closet is a bad idea because that room can't be called a bedroom anymore. That's important when you sell. It might be worth the trade off of having a very nice bath though.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Keep the tub. A house without a bathtub will be a major turnoff for potential buyers.

I actually have 3 full bathrooms in my home and even though we almost never take baths it is nice to have them and my son took baths for the first few years of his life. They are a must for small kids.

 

[olds]

Wife is right. It's a no brainer.

 

[Brainonska511]

Why do people refer to houses as "starter houses?" Nothing wrong with raising a family in a cape.

But I'd keep the tub, leave the closet alone. You could always use the closet for network equipment storage...

That seems like a weird bathroom entrance. What about Cutting the closet in two? Half (or whatever fraction you want to use) the closet can be used as a linen closet, with a door next to the bathroom door, half the closet can remain for the "office."

 

[Dirigible]

For little kids you gotta have a tub.

I did not realize that before I was a parent.

 

[stinkynathan]

If your "office" is actually a bedroom, getting rid of the closet might be a drawback when you sell the house.

Suggestion: take a look at other houses for sale in your price range and see how many have showers.

This I hadn't thought of.

By the fact you are saying "office", with the quotations, I suspect that your office is a converted bedroom. Leave the closet for it. The best you could do is reduce the closet depth, but that's going to be cost prohibitive for the small increase in bathroom space.

I say "office" because it's where my computer, brewing stuff, music instruments, etc are stored. I guess that it IS a bedroom, though. It has two windows and a closet. I've never thought of it that way because it's so awkwardly-sized, but it technically is, I suppose.

Unfortunately, you're stuck with precious little space. And I agree with your wife - keep the full bathtub if you a) plan to have children or b) plan to sell the house. Is that all you have in the bathroom; a tub, a vanity, and a toilet? No cabinets, no closet?

There is an upper cabinet above the toilet. It's a piece of shit, though. No closet.

I had forgotten to mention this in the OP, but the drain lines also run in a bad spot as the stairs wrap downstairs....and they're galvanized. Did I mention they drain slowly? I'm sure they're pretty corroded internally. I'm 5'9" and I need to duck to get down there.

Another idea I had was to turn my office into main floor laundry/office. If we're already running water + drain into that closet, it would be easy to pop them out into the office. That would probably free us up to put a "bonus room" (no egress window) in the basement when we slowly finish it.

I just got back from Menard's and it IS possible to get a 48" wide full tub base. The bowl would end up being about 22"x 45". I would need to tile the surround, though, which is no problem. I just don't know that it's worth getting rid of the closet to gain the room in the bathroom and have a considerably smaller tub....unless we do the main floor laundry thing, which is also debatable. The 48"x37" shower bases are perfectly sized and very nice, but we'd be losing the closet AND the tub.

Updated floor plan with more info

 

[stinkynathan]

Also, I forgot to mention that we have a fucking WINDOW in our shower....and I'm pretty sure it's an original.

AND

The corners of the cheap 5-piece surround were installed upside-down....which is fine, except that that's where the shelves are......in the corners....

 

[Brainonska511]

Also, I forgot to mention that we have a fucking WINDOW in our shower....and I'm pretty sure it's an original.

AND

The corners of the cheap 5-piece surround were installed upside-down....which is fine, except that that's where the shelves are......in the corners....

What's wrong with a window? As long as it isn't transparent...

 

[AlienCraft]

Wife is right. It's a no brainer.

Quoth The Husband, evermore. :'(

 

[DrPizza]

Wife is right. Don't cut into the closet space; replace everything in place.

Replace the drain line with PVC. If you're willing to do some work on the ceiling below, you might be able to hide the drain line in the ceiling. Hard to tell what you'll have to work with where it ties into the stack. Are your supply lines also galvanized? If so, just replace the supply lines with Pex. 1000 times easier to run it through the walls

Replace the cabinet above the toilet with a nicer cabinet - that's a no brainer. A pedestal sink might give the bathroom the appearance of having more space. You lose the bit of space that comes with a vanity base, but who stores anything besides cleaning crap in those smaller ones?

 

[paperfist]

Also if you don't have an exhaust fan you need to have a window per codes for ventilation, plus the natural light is awesome to have. I put a frosted one in my bathroom that didn't have one up a little higher then normal. It floods the room and adjacent rooms with plenty of light.

I would just get the cast iron pipes cleaned out, everything sticks to that stuff and after 90 years the diameter is probably 3/4"

Gut the room, put in a pocket door that will slide in to the wall where your closet is. That makes room to shift the toilet next to the shower against the closet wall which also allows for a bigger vanity. Since your house is so old they probably used rough cut lumber which is nice for turning inside wall cavities into storage!

BTW, I never understood the concept of having a stand up shower with no tub. When I take a shower I want to relax and not feel claustrophobic. At your height I imagine you'd feel that way

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Now the questions:

1. Are we going to affect our ability to sell this house in 7 years if we do my plan and ditch the full tub?

2. Am I going to want to shoot myself in the face once we have our first kid and don't have a full bath tub?

3. What are my options for tub/shower bases that would fit in a ~51"x38" RO?

4. Who is right?

EDIT: I apparently forgot what we talked about at supper last night. She wants to do something more like this, but I just don't think there's enough room without reconfiguring quite a bit.

1. If you sell the house down the road, you will definitely hurt the value if you do not have a bathtub.

2. You will shoot yourself quite a bit lower if you don't have a bathtub when you have kids.

3. Standard bathtub size is 60" x 30" for rough opening but, there are LOTS of choices that don't adhere to the standard.

4. Your wife is right. Your wife is always right. Your wife is right even when she's wrong. You haven't been married very long or you would know this.

 

[Dubb]

what everyone else says. leave it as is unless you have a way to nicely replace the closet space in the office/bedroom.

you can do small bathrooms that don't feel cramped, its just harder. What you can't do is take the standard modern large bathroom approach to fixtures and cabinetry and wedge it into a smaller space - it doesn't work. A decent interior designer or an architect who's well versed in your house style might be worthwhile - though fair warning someone who won't do more harm than good may be cost prohibitive. Those kitchen/bath remodel places are usually terrible at this sort of thing.

These usually wind up being hard problems and there aren't a whole lot of people who can work through them well.

 

[olds]

Quoth The Husband, evermore. :'(

That too. But I said it because it's a HORRIBLE idea to lose a tub and a closet. A room has to have a closet to be considered a bedroom. And by eliminating the tub, in a one bath house, you'll eliminate probably half the prospective buyers.

 

[stinkynathan]

So we've been discussing this a bit in the past 24 hours. I realize that I'm wrong on the shower thing if we want to keep our pool of potential buyers as high as possible. We're also looking at what will provide the most ROI but also be nice for us in the next 5-7 years. So here's the question related to your responses. What is the best way to proceed?

Option 1: Keep the same layout. Gut the room. Replace plumbing/wiring/cabinets/shower/toilet as needed. Ditch window, add ceiling vent/heater. Install nice cabinets from work. End up with 3 bedrooms and a 65x91 bathroom.

Option 2: Gut the room. Replace plumbing/wiring/cabinets/toilet as needed. Ditch the window, add ceiling vent/heater. Install bigger vanity from work. Move the toilet to be centered in a 36" opening. Bathtub with shower in closet. My research shows we could do a 48x27 shower base, a corner style tub/shower, OR (if I can find one) a 48x37 tub base. Obviously we have a problem if we do the shower base. Build out a new closet at standard 24" interior depth instead of 37". Would lose a small amount of floor space in 3rd "bedroom" but could technically still call it a bedroom.

No matter what, we're stubbed in for at least a toilet in the basement, and possibly a half bath.

Basically, I'm wondering if the bigger deal breaker is the tiny bathroom (65x91), a bigger bathroom with tub/shower and a tiny 3rd "bedroom," or a 2 bed 1 bath with office and a nicely sized bathroom.

EDIT: forgot an updated drawing.

 

[olds]

If it doesn't have a closet, it's a room, not a bedroom.

 

[Brainonska511]

Why such an aversion to windows?

 

[DrPizza]

Personally, I'd leave it with the same layout. I also wouldn't eliminate the window above the bathtub. There's a lot to be said in favor of natural sunlight. Plus, eliminating that window = lots of exterior work to make it blend in correctly.

But, I don't think it would be a horrible mistake to eliminate that closet and expand the bedroom. If I did that, then I think the best bet for the doorway into the bathroom would be going forward. Things to consider: where is the stack (plumbing issues?) Which walls are supporting walls?

Here's a suggestion. An alternate suggestion would be to move the toilet to where the vanity used to be, and put in a stackable washer/dryer in its place.

Note: with the correct distance between the sinks, and a lot of searching/matching trim, you could tastefully leave the window and have a mirror on each side of the window.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

If you have one full bath, you need to get a tub in there. Especially if you are remodeling.

SHE IS IN FACT RIGHT.

How big is your home? That is fairly important. Sounds small though, like less than 1000 sqft. If that is the case, you only need 1 bath. Make it nice. DO NOT buy anything personal or ultra modern. You will never sell the place. Use traditional fixtures! Make it look nice. Not white cabinets. Get dark hardwood. It hides dirt better. No white tile or white grout! White tile that gets knicked shows up. And no white grout ever stays white.

Storage is very important. Getting rid of a closet for a bigger bathroom is a bad idea.

If your water flow sucks, the interior of your pipes probably have calcium buildup. Might as well replace it all. that process would also get rid of all the led based solder

You will not have anywhere to bathe for like 6 weeks. Know this.

Now, gut the thing on your own. It is a 4 hour weekend project.

I can't give you all the steps, but pay a plumber to come and install the new pipes and tub. It is worth every penny. Find a tile guy unless you are willing to be very patient on your first tile job. You could do the floor. Walls are tricky the first time around though.

 

[Jen]

had to remodel my bathroom recently its 7ft x 8ft area without windows. what i was able to do is have vanity , toilet , tub , washer , dryer and water heater in this area. due to size of this house it was important to maximize space as much as possible in this area . even in small spaces you just have to think smaller items to maximize the use


Jen

 

[DrPizza]

You will not have anywhere to bathe for like 6 weeks. Know this.

Now, gut the thing on your own. It is a 4 hour weekend project.

I can't give you all the steps, but pay a plumber to come and install the new pipes and tub. It is worth every penny. Find a tile guy unless you are willing to be very patient on your first tile job. You could do the floor. Walls are tricky the first time around though.

Of the two jobs, and depending on the location of the stack, walls that he can run lines through, etc., the plumbing is probably easier to handle than the tile. The only "hard" part of the plumbing will be knowing what meets code. i.e. in a new vanity, can he install a mechanical vent to save on running additional lines? Those sorts of questions. The supply lines - just about anyone can handle that if they have the right tools. I've said in a couple other threads, I've been sold on Pex, and thus far will only use the Wirsbo brand, because others have claimed it's easy to kink pex. I haven't had a kink in the Wirsbo. And, when I intentionally put a kink in it as part of a demonstration, the demonstrator took a torch to it, heated it until it was clear as glass, and it restored that section to the way it was before the kink was there.

I sort of take that back a little bit - depending on the layout - where the stack is, etc., his designs might be limited by the plumbing, particularly the drain lines - with the location of the toilet being the biggest question mark.