ATOT Mafia #2 [Live]

[Dr. Zaus]

I am willing to change my vote, but how do we know that you aren't the mafia leader and trying to sway our vote?

Because right here, right now, any mason can wake up and say "HEY NO I am a Mason!" and BAM proof of a mafia. But they won't because it will instantly prove that one of us is a mafia.

Since we are about to kill one of my masons I think it's important that we NOT. Alive is one of the masons, I am the mason leader.

We need to NOT vote for Alive!

Please, DOCTOR, protect alive tonight!

I WILL BE OK TONIGHT. do NOT protect me.

We should kill someone that's acting like mafia;

Mafia is quite and comes in late and tries to drop the kill. effowe signed up at 9am yesterday and only posted once more, for the kill, right now.

Im not sure; but it's something to go on.

 

[Kirby64]

I am willing to change my vote, but how do we know that you aren't the mafia leader and trying to sway our vote?

He's guaranteeing that he has himself protected, so unless he's betting that townspeople believe him and he's really the mafia, he has the Jailkeeper as a Mason so he's protected... and... I don't even know.

He could be lying about the whole thing and ALIVE is mafia like Krazy4Real said. I'm confused.

 

[Cuda1447]

I don't really trust Dixy, if he were a Mason, wouldn't it be REALLY stupid to come out and tell everyone he is Mason Leader? That would make him a huge target for Mafia.... so either he is lying, which makes me suspicious of him... or he is stupid. I think he's lying and have put him on a future list for killing after Alive.

 

[Krazy4Real]

I change my vote to no lynch for the time being. I don't want to risk lynching a mason member.

 

[InverseOfNeo]

Krazy, I think I'm with you. I'd rather see what the 'night' brings us.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I don't really trust Dixy, if he were a Mason, wouldn't it be REALLY stupid to come out and tell everyone he is Mason Leader? That would make him a huge target for Mafia.... so either he is lying, which makes me suspicious of him... or he is stupid. I think he's lying and have put him on a future list for killing after Alive.

You voted within a few min of the guy I'm trying to kill; you also only posted to join and to drop a kill. Now your calling me stupid for protecting a known good guy and presenting an argument that will force mafia to reveal themselves as such if they drop the kill hammer.

I'm not changing my vote to you yet; but if I die at night then it will be because you are a mafia.

He's guaranteeing that he has himself protected, so unless he's betting that townspeople believe him and he's really the mafia, he has the Jailkeeper as a Mason so he's protected... and... I don't even know.

He could be lying about the whole thing and ALIVE is mafia like Krazy4Real said. I'm confused.

Let me quote for you the first post by alive after roles went out:

okey now i read how the game is played lol
so what exacly the masons do in the game??

Ok... so clearly from his posting he's not smart enough in this game to try and trick people like this... Hes just bad at the game and revealed his role.

 

[gw186]

I think DixyCrat is a Mafia member along with his buddy ALIVE, but I am just not real shure.

I vote for mafia, for no other reason then his user name.

 

[Cuda1447]

You voted within a few min of the guy I'm trying to kill; you also only posted to join and to drop a kill. Now your calling me stupid for protecting a known good guy and presenting an argument that will force mafia to reveal themselves as such if they drop the kill hammer.

I'm not changing my vote to you yet; but if I die at night then it will be because you are a mafia.

If my vote time is the only thing you have to refute my argument with, then I think you are in trouble. Voting time is purely coincidental, regardless of what team I'm on.

As for me calling you stupid for protecting someone, that's not the case. I'm saying its stupid to reveal your role. You can protect him in other ways, arguing on his behalf without revealing your role. If I were a Mason leader I would want to keep that quiet, as it paints a huge target on my back. If you die tonight, its not because I'm Mafia, its because you painted a huge target on yourself. You won't die tonight though, as there is no way you would be that dumb to paint a target on yourself. Which means you must be Mafia. If you are Mafia, I think its safe to assume the man you are so quick to defend is probably Mafia as well. Just saying.

 

[A Casual Fitz]

lynch Alive

 

[Kirby64]

If my vote time is the only thing you have to refute my argument with, then I think you are in trouble. Voting time is purely coincidental, regardless of what team I'm on.

As for me calling you stupid for protecting someone, that's not the case. I'm saying its stupid to reveal your role. You can protect him in other ways, arguing on his behalf without revealing your role. If I were a Mason leader I would want to keep that quiet, as it paints a huge target on my back. If you die tonight, its not because I'm Mafia, its because you painted a huge target on yourself. You won't die tonight though, as there is no way you would be that dumb to paint a target on yourself. Which means you must be Mafia. If you are Mafia, I think its safe to assume the man you are so quick to defend is probably Mafia as well. Just saying.

I'm assuming his reasoning for being ok with revealing his position is due to the fact one of the masons is the Jailkeeper. Presumably it isn't ALIVE, as that would pose a problem for him at night if ALIVE gets lynched. Thereby, he feels safe because he can be protected by the Jailkeeper.

Or, you know, you're right and he's mafia defending mafia. It's kinda unclear at this point. We've got 10 mafia to deal with, so it's a rather large target. With two mafia groups, I'm not exactly sure how he can feel safe; the other mafia group could just as easily kill him...

I'm liable to consider him stupid and think he's telling the truth, but then again the ones you WANT to believe are usually the tricky ones.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Just saying.

Unless it reveals mafia.

After revealing my role like this anyone after that goes after Alive is likely just kill-hungery mafia types. (particularly given the clear evidence of his stupid post where he asked how his mason role works)

Also, there are many ways to investigate people in this game; my reveal should be easy to verify, as should Alive's status as not-mafia.

 

[Cuda1447]

Unless it reveals mafia.

After revealing my role like this anyone after that goes after Alive is likely just kill-hungery mafia types. (particularly given the clear evidence of his stupid post where he asked how his mason role works)

Also, there are many ways to investigate people in this game; my reveal should be easy to verify, as should Alive's status as not-mafia.

You say anyone going after Alive is kill-hungry... or they don't believe you. Let's not paint a false picture on things based on your word alone, until we can prove that your word is actually true and you aren't simply trying to save a fellow Mafia guy. It just doesn't make sense to me. I'm keeping my vote the same.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

based on your word alone

It is based off of the word of every other mason who doesn't speak


False; it should be the role of any one mason to reveal who he is, say I'm a liar, and then you've got two mafia for sure (us two) or one for sure (him).

Anyone who votes for a lynch after not giving enough time for a mason to step forward is working against the greater good of team good.


Kill hungry; either because they are board, stupid, or mafia.

Like I said:
dixy
Since we are about to kill one of my masons I think it's important that we NOT. Alive is one of the masons, I am the mason leader.

We need to NOT vote for Alive!

Please, DOCTOR, protect alive tonight!

I WILL BE OK TONIGHT. do NOT protect me.

OH and I DO have proof:
No one will stand up and contradict my argument.

 

[Kirby64]

You say anyone going after Alive is kill-hungry... or they don't believe you. Let's not paint a false picture on things based on your word alone, until we can prove that your word is actually true and you aren't simply trying to save a fellow Mafia guy. It just doesn't make sense to me. I'm keeping my vote the same.

You know, he makes a somewhat compelling point. I'm inclined to think he isn't totally stupid, so I (tentatively) believe him. I think I can hold off on murdering someone for tonight 'til we get a wee bit more information.

Vote officially changed to: no lynch

 

[mafia]

I think DixyCrat is a Mafia member along with his buddy ALIVE, but I am just not real shure.

I vote for mafia, for no other reason then his user name.

Thanks :\.

 

[mafia]

Let me quote for you the first post by alive after roles went out:

If you look at the times, that question was posted before the PMs were sent. You are trying to defend ALIVE. Seems obvious to me at least.

EDIT: And thats an obvious lie.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

You are trying to defend ALIVE. Seems obvious to me at least.

Yes, because he is one of my masons and because figuring out if he is shouldn't be all that hard tonight; so killing him now is a bad idea. you are right about the timing, though; my apologies for the misunderstanding. Further, it takes only one person to say he is a mason to get some traction out of this reveal. Masons are the pawns of this game, they can be sacrificed, but they should only be sacked if there's a benefit.

Again: you have the word of every mason that doesn't speak that I am their leader do NOT vote for alive, he is one of my masons.

 

[schneiderguy]

I don't know how long it took to send out PMs. I know alive didn't post in the mason chat until 4 but he asked about how masons work around 3; which is before all of the roles got out, but after the game was full.

Zudoku said he would start sending out PMs at 2:41, ALIVE's post was about half an hour before that.

 

[mafia]

I don't know how long it took to send out PMs. I know alive didn't post in the mason chat until 4 but he asked about how masons work around 3; which is before all of the roles got out, but after the game was full.

Look at the times! He asked that question before Zokodu announced he was going to start sending PMs. Zokodu didn't start sending PMs until after he announced that! And ALIVE's post was 41 minutes before Zokodu starting sending the first PMs! You are really really suspicious now!

 

[ussfletcher]

Yes, because he is one of my masons and because figuring out if he is shouldn't be all that hard tonight; so killing him now is a bad idea.I don't know how long it took to send out PMs. I know alive didn't post in the mason chat until 4 but he asked about how masons work around 3; which is before all of the roles got out, but after the game was full, so its possible his was one of the first random roles to be decided. Further, it takes only one person to say he is a mason to get some traction out of this reveal. Masons are the pawns of this game, they can be sacrificed, but they should only be sacked if there's a benefit.

Again: you have the word of every mason that doesn't speak that I am their leader do NOT vote for alive, he is one of my masons.

I am inclined to believe you at this point. I'll change my vote to no lynch.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Zudoku said he would start sending out PMs at 2:41, ALIVE's post was about half an hour before that.

Look at the times! He asked that question before Zokodu announced he was going to start sending PMs. Zokodu didn't start sending PMs until after he announced that! And ALIVE's post was 41 minutes before Zokodu starting sending the first PMs! You are really really suspicious now!

You are both right I got the timing wrong.

It is the responsibility of any mason that knows different to stand up and say "hey those two are mafia, 'cause i'm a mason and Dixy isn't my leader" because one mason reveal for two mafia reveal is a great deal and team good could have it if someone stands up and says I'm not the mason leader.

There should be no lynch votes for anyone until we give someone a chance to say that he, himself, is a mason.

Just to be sure:

Since we are about to kill one of my masons I think it's important that we NOT. Alive is one of the masons, I am the mason leader.

We need to NOT vote for Alive!

Please, DOCTOR, protect alive tonight!

I WILL BE OK TONIGHT. do NOT protect me.

 

[mafia]

There should be no lynch votes for anyone until we give someone a chance to say that he, himself, is a mason.

Thats a smart statement. Changing to no lynch for the time being and or until 'other masons' start telling different stories.

 

[Cuda1447]

I am inclined to believe you at this point. I'll change my vote to no lynch.

The problem is no other Mason wants to speak for 2 reasons. 1. We have no way to believe him. And 2. It would paint a huge target on his back now. Masons use is lost when reveal their identities and become huge targets. Getting themselves killed early does no one any good. I think Dixy is trying WAAAAY to hard here. *shrugs*

 

[Cuda1447]

Agh, this is really bothering me. I have to make another point. Trusting anyone early on is stupid. You cannot believe anyone's word no matter what. Let me illustrate why. Dixy says he's a Mason and proof of it is that no one refutes him. Well let's say theoretically I am actually a Mason and he's not. So I come out and refute him. Now its my word versus his. Next, let's pretend that he calls me a liar and says that I am mafia, when in reality he is mafia. Next he gets all his mafia buddies to 'come out of the closest' and say that dixy is telling the truth, he is a mason and so are they and that I am not. To combat this I get all my mason friends to come out of the woodwork and confirm I AM a mason and dixy is not. Now its a classic he says/she says but with groups. There is absolutely no advantage for the Masons to do this because 1. We have no way of believing them. 2. They just put huge targets on themselves EITHER way. Either they will be thought of as Masons and targeted by Mafia for sure, or they will be thought of as Mafia and be targeted by townspeople.

You see, no matter what Dixy says, we have no way of believing him. His claim that because no one is refuting him is illogical. For instance, let's pretend I'm mafia. I'm going to come out and claim I'm a mason in order to expose the true masons who I can then target. EVEN when they refute me, I can still get my buddies to lie for me and create a he says/she says so no one can prove am I NOT mason. That's worst case scenario. Best case scenario, no one says anything, as they are not foolish enough to reveal their identities this early - and as a result I cement my fake identity as Mason leader to everybody else. Dixy really has nothing to lose by going down this path. And his false assertions that because no one refutes him means he is telling the truth is poor logic.

I'm not saying he's Mafia, I don't know. But I do know that his logic is fallible and his motives are questionable.

 

[vshah]

no lynch for me as well, will wait to see what is discovered tonight.