ATOT Mafia #2 [Live]

[effowe]

I think I'm just going to keep my vote for ALIVE. No one has swayed me one way or the other. Hopefully nighttime will give us some more answers.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

All the people that tried to drop a death-nail right after my self-outing are prime suspects; the only rational thing to do at that point is wait and see.

GW186 edited a vote for alive to avoid suspension

A Casual Fitz still voted alive with no discussion, so did waggy

It's also highly of these because they all voted at once:

Cuda1447 < likely mafia thug
cirrhosis
effowe

Finally: mafia don't need to lynch anyone, they can just sit-back and kill at night; makes me think that greater contributions make it more likely they are not mafia.

IMHO.

We will know more tomorrow; there's a large posy of good powers out here.

***********
DOCTOR:
We NEED you to protect Alive tonight: I am safe, so don't worry about me!

 

[waggy]

A Casual Fitz still voted alive with no discussion, so did waggy


We will know more tomorrow; there's a large posy of good powers out here.

You need ot read better..

Im going to reverse my tactics from last game. Last time i did Random and Mafia. this time i think alive needs to be dead. so

Alive is my vote.

reason i voted alive was his name. going oppisoite. last time i chose what the names were. random was my random vote then mafia.

this time i think alive needs to be dead. do i think he is mafia or townie? no fucking clue at all.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

You need ot read better..




reason i voted alive was his name. going oppisoite. last time i chose what the names were. random was my random vote then mafia.

this time i think alive needs to be dead. do i think he is mafia or townie? no fucking clue at all.

So, instead of engaging the game based off of information that's been presented; you vote entirely off of name, a name that happens to be one that many others have voted for?


This is not game play that is conducive to the killing of mafia.

 

[ALIVE]

All the people that tried to drop a death-nail right after my self-outing are prime suspects; the only rational thing to do at that point is wait and see.

GW186 edited a vote for alive to avoid suspension

A Casual Fitz still voted alive with no discussion, so did waggy

It's also highly of these because they all voted at once:

Cuda1447 < likely mafia thug
cirrhosis
effowe

Finally: mafia don't need to lynch anyone, they can just sit-back and kill at night; makes me think that greater contributions make it more likely they are not mafia.

IMHO.

We will know more tomorrow; there's a large posy of good powers out here.

mafia can simple de rail the lynching no lynch is a mafia win
cause mafia can kill from a safe spot
all that are not members are enemies
so for mafia lynch is uselles

for the townies is important
so mafia will try to make a quiet voting nto somethign spectacular
and they would not surelly do not want to be accused for lynching an inocent
some people that were so in favor of lynching me and post so many messages when dicxie said he is mason back down?
are the townies or simple they do not want to be blamed for killing a mason because they are mafia??
a mafia would not suport a lynch when someone claims to be a mason
he will kill him at night

so it makes you wonder?!?!?

 

[ALIVE]

to the doctor out there
if i am not lynch protect me during the night
DixyCrat is safe
do not give a mafia a good starting
protect me at night

 

[ALIVE]

You need ot read better..




reason i voted alive was his name. going oppisoite. last time i chose what the names were. random was my random vote then mafia.

this time i think alive needs to be dead. do i think he is mafia or townie? no fucking clue at all.

hahaha after so many post do not vote for the nick
you are going to vote because of the nick
and the only reason i am in this spot
i made a suggestion for mafia to be mafia
i did not even voted him i made a funny statement
and everyone wants to lynch me
you for my name
the other for poetic messages?!?!?!
other for being in berlin!?!?

 

[ALIVE]

sleep time
i have to sleep it is 1.30 here
so talk to you tomorow?!?!?!?
and doctor protect me during the night
mafia will try to kill me

 

[Cuda1447]

All the people that tried to drop a death-nail right after my self-outing are prime suspects; the only rational thing to do at that point is wait and see.

GW186 edited a vote for alive to avoid suspension

A Casual Fitz still voted alive with no discussion, so did waggy

It's also highly of these because they all voted at once:

Cuda1447 < likely mafia thug
cirrhosis
effowe

Finally: mafia don't need to lynch anyone, they can just sit-back and kill at night; makes me think that greater contributions make it more likely they are not mafia.

IMHO.

We will know more tomorrow; there's a large posy of good powers out here.

***********
DOCTOR:
We NEED you to protect Alive tonight: I am safe, so don't worry about me!

Your logic is confusing, I'm likely a mafia thug... but because I am voting to lynch someone and contributing to discussion, I am likely not mafia?

I think the point here is and the point I was trying to make, is we simply cannot believe anything at this point. Perhaps it is wise to wait till the night before we lynch someone, but I just have a feeling Alive is evil, thus my vote for him.

Do you think i'm a mafia thug soley because I disagreed with your logic though?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

is we simply cannot believe anything at this point.

false. You are now and have continued to actively discredit actual information.

we can't know anything the first night: unless someone pulls a move like I did. There has been about a day since I revealed my role and no one has contradicted me.

even if I was mafia the life of one mason is much more valuable than the life of two mafia; so team good should step forward, if i'm not one.

Turns out we have very credible information, then, that I AM the mason leader.

Your constant refusal to change your mind on this point either shows you are a mafia thug trying to provide cover OR (and i honestly think this is more likely) you are argumentative and suborn, unwilling to admit that anyone but you might have insight. Even if you are village, you are keeping mafia from having to defend the point and thus mitigating our ability to suss information out of others.

All some mafia has to do is say "i believed Cuda" and now they have cover for doing what, in all instances of a rational game, would hurt team good.

 

[Cuda1447]

false. You are now and have continued to actively discredit actual information.

we can't know anything the first night: unless someone pulls a move like I did. There has been about a day since I revealed my role and no one has contradicted me.

even if I was mafia the life of one mason is much more valuable than the life of two mafia; so team good should step forward, if i'm not one.

Turns out we have very credible information, then, that I AM the mason leader.

Your constant refusal to change your mind on this point either shows you are a mafia thug trying to provide cover OR (and i honestly think this is more likely) you are argumentative and suborn, unwilling to admit that anyone but you might have insight. Even if you are village, you are keeping mafia from having to defend the point and thus mitigating our ability to suss information out of others.

All some mafia has to do is say "i believed Cuda" and now they have cover for doing what, in all instances of a rational game, would hurt team good.

You assert your position to be true like Christians claim God is real, based on faith alone. I have outlined a very plausible reason for someone to not believe you. The fact of the matter is we JUST DON'T KNOW. You can claim it to be factual all you want, but that doesn't MAKE it factual, it just means you talk a lot.

That said, you might actually be telling the truth. If that is the case, I think it is highly foolish, but that is a road you've already gone down and painted a huge target on you AND Alives back, for both Mafia groups. I don't think you are this naive though, thus I don't think you are telling the truth. It's a very clever plan to get the real Masons to reveal their identity, but luckily for the village, they are not foolish enough to fall for the bait. Well done to the real Masons on that one.

 

[InverseOfNeo]

You assert your position to be true like Christians claim God is real, based on faith alone. I have outlined a very plausible reason for someone to not believe you. The fact of the matter is we JUST DON'T KNOW. You can claim it to be factual all you want, but that doesn't MAKE it factual, it just means you talk a lot.

That said, you might actually be telling the truth. If that is the case, I think it is highly foolish, but that is a road you've already gone down and painted a huge target on you AND Alives back, for both Mafia groups. I don't think you are this naive though, thus I don't think you are telling the truth. It's a very clever plan to get the real Masons to reveal their identity, but luckily for the village, they are not foolish enough to fall for the bait. Well done to the real Masons on that one.

Though, if you are not mafia, would it not be in your best interest to believe him? Thus keeping the masons (assuming he is truthful) alive. It is in the towns best interest to keep the masons alive.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

You can claim it to be factual all you want, but that doesn't MAKE it factual

Fact: I said I am the mason leader
Fact: No one has contradicted this
Fact: It would make sense to contradict this because it would expose two mafia
FACT: You are providing cover for the mafia by making arguments that fail to address these points.

FACT! 100% legit, I looked into it.


Doctor, again, PLEASE protect Alive tonight : I am safe.

 

[Cuda1447]

Though, if you are not mafia, would it not be in your best interest to believe him? Thus keeping the masons (assuming he is truthful) alive. It is in the towns best interest to keep the masons alive.

As someone has mentioned earlier, it is in the Mafia's best interest to NOT lynch someone, as they can kill freely at night. If I am a town person, it is in my best interest to make sure the town takes advantage of its lynching opportunities and targets likely bad guys, whom I think Alive is.

Now if he is truthful, of course it would be in my best interest to believe him, but why do we assume he is truthful? I have yet to see a compelling reason to believe him, despite his claims that the facts are irrefutable. Hell, I'll take this a step further. It might be best to TEST him. Kill alive, determine right then and there if what he is saying is truthful and if it turns out Alive is in fact a Mason, then we can trust Dixy for the rest of the game.

It doesn't look like Alive is going to be lynched though, so that seems like an unlikely scenario.

 

[Cuda1447]

Fact: I said I am the mason leader
Fact: No one has contradicted this
Fact: It would make sense to contradict this because it would expose two mafia
FACT: You are providing cover for the mafia by making asinine arguments to the contrary

FACT! 100% legit, I looked into it.

Ok, let's break this down a little further.

Fact: You have said you are the mason leader
Fact: I have not directly contradicted you, but I have insinuated that you may not be telling the truth. Unfortunately, I cannot or do not wish to reveal my position to actually contradict you.
NOT A FACT: It would be VERY stupid to contradict you if I were a Mason. Doing so would put down into some peoples minds as to your real identity, but the real fact is that I cannot PROVE you are not Mafia, I can only make a compelling argument. All this really accomplishes though is to confirm to YOU who is a Mason, thus putting a huge target on myself.

NOT A FACT: I am providing cover for no one, I am simply pointing out that we cannot accept your word to be gospel, because there is a very legitimate circumstance where you could be lying.


Let me lay this scenario out very clearly one more time. I apologize if I was not able to clearly explain what may be occurring here.

Theoretical example:


A mafia member (we will call him Dixy) decides he wants to blow the cover of the Masons early in the game. As a result, he claims to be a Mason himself, thus forcing the real Masons to refute his claim and expose themselves. Now Dixy has ascertained very early on the identity of one of the Masons, perhaps multiple Masons if the Masons act foolishly. Here's the most clever part of this tactic though. There is really no downside for Dixy. If the Masons do NOT refute his claim, he has given himself an EXCELLENT cover identity as the Mason leader that nearly the majority of the rest of the players have to accept as fact. No one has refuted him so he must be the Mason leader. No need to ever Lynch him and he can then begin controlling people as pawns.

Absolute worst case scenario for Dixy is that there is doubt in the minds of some players as to who is the real Mason and who is the Mafia liar, as no one can really prove it one way or the other. This isn't so bad of a scenario though, as everyone's roles are in doubt at this point of the game, so Dixy would simply be back at point A.


You see, its an extremely clever tactic that I do not want to let go unnoticed. Now, we could be dealing with a situation where Dixy is in fact telling the truth. Although, the advantages of doing that are much smaller than the harm he would be doing to himself, so I can't really believe that is what we are seeing here. Dixy might be setting himself up to be the sacrificial lamb though?!? *shrugs* I think it'll hurt the town more than it'll help him, but Dixy obviously disagrees with me on this point.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

It would be VERY stupid to contradict you if I were a Mason. Doing so would put down into some peoples minds as to your real identity, but the real fact is that I cannot PROVE you are not Mafia, I can only make a compelling argument.

Cuda1447: I see why you are so very wrong. Despite that, I have a STRONG feeling that you may be a mafia thug.

Doctor, protect Alive, I am safe tonight.

 

[drum]

technically you've outed 2 as mason not one, but you've obviously made your point

 

[Dr. Zaus]

technically you've outed 2 as mason not one, but you've obviously made your point

I was trying to save my mason; since i'm safe and we have a doc this shouldn't be too big of a problem tonight.

Further it's provided a list of people that either don't know not to drop a kill-hammer when there's information out there OR that are mafia working to drop a kill before people can respond to the information.

Also, I was about to lose 1 mason to a lynch.. so 2 masons outed is > 1 mason dead... (but then that's a judgment call: I guess being the leader makes me more valuable than a single mason; but I'm safe, so, again, no prob )

 

[drum]

Reading and thinking through this so far, my instinct takes me toward dixy's argument. This has been a great day 1 so far either way. Great debates.
Subject to change, but at this point I have to vote No Lynch

 

[Cuda1447]

Cuda1447: I see why you are so very wrong. Despite that, I have a STRONG feeling that you may be a mafia thug.

Doctor, protect Alive, I am safe tonight.

Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps I am right, we will see at a later date. But consider one last thing. If I were a mafia thug, don't you think I'd want a no lynch on Alive? For if Alive is killed and I am a mafia thug and what you say is true, then you will be proven to be the Mason leader, earning the trust of many, hurting my position.


You see, if I were a mafia thug it would be in my best interest to keep Alive.... alive

 

[drum]

It looks like everyone is content to sit back and watch the Cuda and Dixy cage match and pick sides.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps I am right, we will see at a later date. But consider one last thing. If I were a mafia thug, don't you think I'd want a no lynch on Alive? For if Alive is killed and I am a mafia thug and what you say is true, then you will be proven to be the Mason leader, earning the trust of many, hurting my position.


You see, if I were a mafia thug it would be in my best interest to keep Alive.... alive

I honestly can't disagree; I guess I didn't think through every contingency. But my math about the value of a reveal stands!

YOU MAFIA BASTARD!

 

[Cuda1447]

It looks like everyone is content to sit back and watch the Cuda and Dixy cage match and pick sides.

The best part about it, we may actually be on the same side!! If Dixy would just let us kill Alone to verify his claim of being a Mason, we would know we could trust him and could unite against the Mafia scum, unless of course he IS MAFIA SCUM!!!

 

[Kirby64]

All I have to say for now:

 

[drum]

All I have to say for now:

this is the correct answer