ATOT: Need job/attitude advice

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blackdogdeek

Lifer
Mar 14, 2003
14,453
10
81
Pretty much.

Got told to "let him catch his breath" then we would talk. I'll be scheduling interviews soon.

Dude, after that list of the stuff you did in Ohio and then Omaha I would have already had interviews lined up, not "soon". That is one crazy day.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
36
91
Pretty much.

Got told to "let him catch his breath" then we would talk. I'll be scheduling interviews soon.

You need to at least scare him before you leave. The employment scam they run is serious stuff.
 

xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
71
If they have no respect for you now how can you expect them to have some later?
 

BikeJunkie

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2013
1,390
0
0
1. You don't get holiday pay OR overtime pay? In other words, you've got the sucker's end of the deal on both sides? If you're a temp worker without holiday pay, that insinuates that you're hourly. Sounds like you need to be less of a pushover in your professional life.

2. "on my radar" = buying time until either a) he can find a replacement, or b) you quit (at which point he'll decide if it's worth keeping you around, or if he should just let the chips fall)
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Dude, after that list of the stuff you did in Ohio and then Omaha I would have already had interviews lined up, not "soon". That is one crazy day.

I liked all the stuff I did. It was fun.

Filling out the invoice for my time sucked today. For over 20 hours of OT in one week my check will hardly be any bigger because of being closed on Christmas and part of Christmas Eve.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
I liked all the stuff I did. It was fun.

Filling out the invoice for my time sucked today. For over 20 hours of OT in one week my check will hardly be any bigger because of being closed on Christmas and part of Christmas Eve.

I don't understand. OT is figured on a weekly basis not, every two weeks. Or, did you mean the total amount of the check was about the same due to not working all of the second week?
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
Find another job FAST.

This is nothing out of ordinary Rudeguy, TONS of companies are exploiting their workers all around this country/world.

Count up your hours/pay and figure out EXACTLY how much you made per hour since you started there. Chances are you are fairly close to minimum wage.

In the future, remember, companies will only exploit the people that allow them to do so.

Don't be that person in the future....
 

BikeJunkie

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2013
1,390
0
0
I'm a 1099 worker. I've been a software consultant for the better part of a decade. I get paid for the time I work - every minute of it - and I don't get paid for the time I don't work (holidays, days my clients are closed, etc). If one of my clients came to me and told me that I'd be working 60 hours but getting paid for 40, I'd tell them to get fucked by a train.

The fact that you're traveling on behalf of this company makes your situation a zillion times worse. To say you're exposed is an understatement. Do you carry disability insurance for yourself? As a 1099, you should. I do, and I don't even leave my house to go to work. I also carry a hefty life insurance policy.

You are getting SCREEEEWED here. There's a lot to be said for being happy with your company, coworkers, and the work you do... but financially speaking, you are - as IndyColtsFan said - getting BONED.

You say you can have another job tomorrow. If that is actually true, then you should have your "come to Jesus" talk NOW. Not tomorrow. Not at 3PM. Right now. You walk into the CEO's office - with the owner in-hand - and outline why this is bullshit (without using the word 'bullshit') and how you can't do any more traveling without proper compensation/protection. Explain that you cherish the job, the work, and the people, but reality is reality.

And here's the thing: the owner blabbering on about how the CEO makes the decisions... yeah, that's a load of horseshit. That's him being a spineless bitch and just passing the buck. Trust me: the two of them have an agreement - probably unspoken - that workers like you are "variable staffing" and not FT. You should stop having conversations about your employment status unless both men are present. Do not let one pawn you off on the other. Fuck that.

Damn. I'm pissed and I don't even work for these clowns. Seriously - how did you let this happen???
 
Last edited:

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
I'm a 1099 worker. I've been a software consultant for the better part of a decade. I get paid for the time I work - every minute of it - and I don't get paid for the time I don't work (holidays, days my clients are closed, etc). If one of my clients came to me and told me that I'd be working 60 hours but getting paid for 40, I'd tell them to get fucked by a train.

The fact that you're traveling on behalf of this company makes your situation a zillion times worse. To say you're exposed is an understatement. Do you carry disability insurance for yourself? As a 1099, you should. I do, and I don't even leave my house to go to work. I also carry a hefty life insurance policy.

You are getting SCREEEEWED here. There's a lot to be said for being happy with your company, coworkers, and the work you do... but financially speaking, you are - as IndyColtsFan said - getting BONED.

You say you can have another job tomorrow. If that is actually true, then you should have your "come to Jesus" talk NOW. Not tomorrow. Not at 3PM. Right now. You walk into the CEO's office - with the owner in-hand - and outline why this is bullshit (without using the word 'bullshit') and how you can't do any more traveling without proper compensation/protection. Explain that you cherish the job, the work, and the people, but reality is reality.

And here's the thing: the owner blabbering on about how the CEO makes the decisions... yeah, that's a load of horseshit. That's him being a spineless bitch and just passing the buck. Trust me: the two of them have an agreement - probably unspoken - that workers like you are "variable staffing" and not FT. You should stop having conversations about your employment status unless both men are present. Do not let one pawn you off on the other. Fuck that.

Damn. I'm pissed and I don't even work for these clowns. Seriously - how did you let this happen???

This is simply another case of "good guy always ends up getting screwed in the end". Here he is putting in extra effort and working hard to prove himself/going up and beyond.

Yet the company looks at him like a sucker and laughs all the way to the bank.

Then you wonder why there isn't many good guys out there......truth is, there WAS many, but they always seemed to get screwed so they stop being one.

Even the best of the best can only take so much abuse before they say "fuck this shit".
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
I don't understand. OT is figured on a weekly basis not, every two weeks. Or, did you mean the total amount of the check was about the same due to not working all of the second week?

OT would normally be figured weekly. I get paid straight time no matter how many hours I work.

So week 1 I billed for somewhere around 65 hours. I worked more but I didn't document and that is my fault. I can't remember start and stop times. Week 2 we were closed 5 hours on 12-24 and 8 hours on 12-25.

On a normal pay cycle I bill 88 hours. This most recent one I billed 92.
 

BikeJunkie

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2013
1,390
0
0
This is simply another case of "good guy always ends up getting screwed in the end". Here he is putting in extra effort and working hard to prove himself/going up and beyond.

Yet the company looks at him like a sucker and laughs all the way to the bank.

Then you wonder why there isn't many good guys out there......truth is, there WAS many, but they always seemed to get screwed so they stop being one.

Even the best of the best can only take so much abuse before they say "fuck this shit".

Yep. What's sad is that no matter what happens, a good working relationship is destroyed. Those are hard to come by.

I don't think he should threaten to quit. I've never been an advocate of that. Best case scenario, he makes the threat and they give him what he wants. Except now no one trusts anyone. They'll feel victimized/strong-armed (even though they deserve it) and wonder if he'll do it again to them. He'll wonder if they just bought themselves time so they can lay him off or fire him outright.

What he SHOULD do is have his conversation with them today, but without threats of any kind. No ultimatums. Even if they ask "if we don't do this for you, will you leave?", you don't stoop to that. You just say "I think this is an appropriate step for someone in my position doing the work I'm doing" and leave it at that.

If they don't come through for him, then he needs to find another job ASAP and quit without entertaining a counteroffer. If they do counter (which they probably will), you just say:

No thanks. I appreciate the offer and the time I spent here, but we have different goals and I think it's best we go our separate ways.

If they have half a brain, they'll see that for what it is: You fucked me and thought you could get away with it. You were wrong. You get to have your jab without being a dick/unprofessional.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
I would say, find another job > put in notice > nothing else.

These people are clearly stupid, incompetent and inconsiderate.

These types of companies/people don't ever learn their lessons and don't ever think they can do ANYTHING wrong.

He will not prove them otherwise or change their mind.

I've seen this countless times. People up top think they are gods and even when you prove them wrong/give them all the evidence in the world of reality....they will still think they are right/did nothing wrong.

Those are the worse kinds of people IMO.
 

BikeJunkie

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2013
1,390
0
0
I would say, find another job > put in notice > nothing else.

These people are clearly stupid, incompetent and inconsiderate.

These types of companies/people don't ever learn their lessons and don't ever think they can do ANYTHING wrong.

He will not prove them otherwise or change their mind.

I've seen this countless times. People up top think they are gods and even when you prove them wrong/give them all the evidence in the world of reality....they will still think they are right/did nothing wrong.

Those are the worse kinds of people IMO.

Agree 100%. Small business may be the lifeblood of our economy (and is where I get most of my clients, to be fair), but it's also where a lot of hacks reside. The worst ego-tripping CxO's can be found at this level. They stumbled into a good idea or a rich market, but are largely uneducated and/or inexperienced. Like you said, they think they can do no wrong. On top of that, their company is like their child, and they will nourish it, protect it, and advance it at any cost whatsoever with no mind paid to the collateral damage left behind.

As far as broken laws/regulations go, it's only illegal if you get caught. That's their mentality.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,418
1,599
126
This is simply another case of "good guy always ends up getting screwed in the end". Here he is putting in extra effort and working hard to prove himself/going up and beyond.

Yet the company looks at him like a sucker and laughs all the way to the bank.

Then you wonder why there isn't many good guys out there......truth is, there WAS many, but they always seemed to get screwed so they stop being one.

Even the best of the best can only take so much abuse before they say "fuck this shit".

the solution is finding another job, not to "stop being [a good guy]"
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
That blows man. Welcome to the United Corporate States of America though. A government of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations.

I know people who have done 40 hour a week temp jobs for the same company for 2+ years before being hired on a full time employee.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
the solution is finding another job, not to "stop being [a good guy]"

I don't' disagree.

As with anything, NOTHING is good when taken to the extreme.

Moderation is the key to "being a good guy" as well.

:biggrin:
 

BikeJunkie

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2013
1,390
0
0
the solution is finding another job, not to "stop being [a good guy]"

I think what he meant is stop being naive, at least that's what I got from it.

When I was in my early 20's, I was the guy who'd give anyone the t-shirt off my back. I'd work whatever hours were necessary to get the job done, do whatever training (on my own dime and own time) to keep up with what the company needed me to know, and never asked for anything in return.

That makes you ripe for being taken advantage of, and I was (in fact, in very much the same ways RudeGuy is). I still believe that any job worth doing is worth doing right, and I take immense pride in my work. But I've stopped being naive. No freebies, no free rides. If you want my services, you will pay for them ("this is not a hobby" is my mantra). If you need specialized skills from me, you will pay for my training and and you will pay me for the time I spend in that training. If I travel for you, you will pay for all of my expenses and you will pay me above and beyond the typical 8 hour work day.

Not only do you get abused less when you stand with a firm spine, but people inherently respect you more. This leads to more opportunities, responsibilities, and higher pay.

The time for being a doormat is when you're just trying to establish your career and you need a lot more from society than you're capable of giving back. But once you've acquired measurable skill, experience, and worth to your industry and trade, you need to assert yourself more. You're holding yourself back if you don't.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
Agree 100%. Small business may be the lifeblood of our economy (and is where I get most of my clients, to be fair), but it's also where a lot of hacks reside. The worst ego-tripping CxO's can be found at this level. They stumbled into a good idea or a rich market, but are largely uneducated and/or inexperienced. Like you said, they think they can do no wrong. On top of that, their company is like their child, and they will nourish it, protect it, and advance it at any cost whatsoever with no mind paid to the collateral damage left behind.

As far as broken laws/regulations go, it's only illegal if you get caught. That's their mentality.

Very true except the small business owners /CxOs didn't start out as assholes, they learned it from emulating big business.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
I think what he meant is stop being naive, at least that's what I got from it.

When I was in my early 20's, I was the guy who'd give anyone the t-shirt off my back. I'd work whatever hours were necessary to get the job done, do whatever training (on my own dime and own time) to keep up with what the company needed me to know, and never asked for anything in return.

That makes you ripe for being taken advantage of, and I was (in fact, in very much the same ways RudeGuy is). I still believe that any job worth doing is worth doing right, and I take immense pride in my work. But I've stopped being naive. No freebies, no free rides. If you want my services, you will pay for them ("this is not a hobby" is my mantra). If you need specialized skills from me, you will pay for my training and and you will pay me for the time I spend in that training. If I travel for you, you will pay for all of my expenses and you will pay me above and beyond the typical 8 hour work day.

Not only do you get abused less when you stand with a firm spine, but people inherently respect you more. This leads to more opportunities, responsibilities, and higher pay.

The time for being a doormat is when you're just trying to establish your career and you need a lot more from society than you're capable of giving back. But once you've acquired measurable skill, experience, and worth to your industry and trade, you need to assert yourself more. You're holding yourself back if you don't.

Agreed

And for the "it's only illegal when you get caught" comment. That is 100% correct and a rule that not only our Businesses go by but our Government as well!!!!

 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,418
1,599
126
/edit

nm, don't feel like having this conversation again.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
ok...gave it one last shot.

Emailed the CEO asking to at least make up for the holiday pay (pretty decent number) and then we can figure the rest out once things calm down.

Put some money in my pocket and I can be a pretty patient guy.
 
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