Attempting to get a Refund for not accepting the Windows Vista EULA

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch
Look, OP, you're the one calling others ignorant for "not understanding the legal background."

Well he called me a moron, I did the least thing and told him why he is calling me a moron while I am not. Don't make it look like I started insulting others.

Believe it or not, there is NO legal background to understand. No request for a windows refund has gone to court, so there is no legal background for the issue.

Jeeeezuz

Why do you guys keep saying stuff like you have records of every single case that has passed through a US court to date?

Here is a detailed and documented case in California for a guy who refused the EULA, proceeded to installing Linux on his system instead and demanded $199 + Court fees for Windows XP refund

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7040

Judge: The defendant didn't show up, but Mr. Oualline you still have to prove your case. You say that they owe you some money. Why?

Me: I bought a computer from them, and when I booted it up it displayed a license agreement with a long list of restrictions that limited what I could do with my computer. It also said that if I didn't agree with the license agreement, I could get a refund.

Judge: I take it you didn't get your refund.

Me: They sent me an e-mail yesterday offering me one, but it was only for the software. I want my court costs too.

The judge then fumbled through my papers looking for the printout of the refund letter. He found it.

Judge: You removed the software from your system.

Me: Yes.

Judge: You installed something else.

Me: I installed Linux.

Judge: Judgment for the plaintiff.

Sure, Microsoft has gone to court for anti-trust issues, but that is in no way related to you deserving a refund for something you did not pay for.

Yes I havepaid for Vista don't kid yourself. Vista Business doesn't come for free.

And sure, some people have gotten refunds, but it wasn't out of legal obligation.

Again you are assuming you know all the cases that have passed.

again I refer you to the same link:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7040

Again, you keep saying you bought a laptop from lenovo because they make the best laptops. Agreed.

Yes they make good laptops out and what's left to make them perfect laptops is having the option of not having to pay for Vista to get one from Lenovo. That would be sweet don't you think?

Let those who want Vista get Vista and those who don't not. Very simple logic that I follow.

And part of the laptops they make is microsoft windows. Why is microsoft windows included on every thinkpad? it doesn't matter. It could be because of financial incentives. It could be because they just are too lazy to add a "No OS" option. It could be because the CEO of lenovo specifically knew you would want a "No OS" option and he wanted to personally inconvenience you. The fact of the matter is, no matter what the reason for lenovo's business decision was, it is their decision to make. You, then, have the right to buy their product, or choose not to.

This isn't a free economy.
Microsoft has restrictions on who's arms it can twist and how much it can do so.

You even have a right to buy their product, then modify it to suit your own desires.

Really?

Microsoft says on the CD itself I don't have the legal right to make more than one copy of said CD. But I paid for the CD....but then you would jump in and say "You are restricted by the EULA that is why DK" and then that's when I would tell you "Well the EULA also says I have the right to a refund too, but somehow that doesn't count when I ask for one..."

You do not have a right to buy it, remove part of the product they sold you, and expect them to give you a partial refund for ripping out a part of the product you knew you were paying for going in.

Oh yes I do. Court cases prove it.

You might think it's immoral or perhaps outright illegal for microsoft to give financial incentives for lenovo only offering windows laptops. You may be right. And you're welcome to litigate microsoft for those business practicies or bring such practices to the attention of the governments that have the ability to charge microsoft with anti-trust concerns. And if the outcome of those court proceedings results in a requirement that microsoft's hardware partners cannot receive financial incentives for not offering competing products, then you win. And at that point, you can buy the laptop you want with the OS (or lack thereof) you want. However, short of doing that, what you're trying to do as far as gaining a personal refund for a bundled product has the backing of neither principle nor legal grounding. IANAL, but it may actually constitute something more like mail fraud. If you get anything out of your endeavors, understand that in the eyes of most rational people, your actions will be viewed as immoral and self-serving.

If a people view Microsoft's arm twisting of consumers and OEMs as anything other than self serving, then the last thing I would think about is how such people see my actions as pure and simple.

It's really funny, the same people that are having their precious little dollars discretely taken away from them are the ones defending the not greedy at all MS.

You tell me, if MS made an announcement to everyone telling them that they can get the full cost of each windows copy they don't agree to it's EULA back, how many would reconsider using Windows to begin with.

People would start looking at alternatives, either it's their own copies of the software or free software, or non-microsoft-non-free-software and that's why MS stays quiet about this and asks people to sign NDAs to not say a word about it.

Why on earth do companies like Lenovo and MS ask people to sign NDA's if what they are doing is right?

That is bull all the way.

In my opinion, you are worse than the microsoft you claim to hate.

There he goes again.

The practices of MS put me in a position of either buying a laptop with windows Vista or not buying a laptop at all from my favorite vendor.

MS uses it's position in the market through many tricky practices to have OEMs offer nothing but their solutions. Is it a surprise I got a laptop with Vista preloaded?

If I desire not to take their solution I am SOL and I will have to go elsewhere. I shouldn't have to, not when it's MS we are talking about.

I have paid for Windows and I WANT that money back.

Why do I want it back? Is it because some ~ $100+ is worth all of this??

Hell no!

But because it's my right and companies don't have the right to force me into paying up like that.

And I want people to know that they can do that. I want people to wake up and realize these practices and stop them in their lives.

Do you seriously think you paid 100 dollars for windows? You're an idiot.

 

[IlllI]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
I am trying to educate people on the matter and get some debate going, but all I am getting are dumbasses who drop one liner insults and run away.

i think you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. i havent seen one thing you've said here as 'educational'. honestly nobody gives a damn, and i think you got all bent out of shape that nobody has sided with you.

oh and people have other things more important than to spend countless arguing a meaningless thing. and it really IS meaningless. you arent going to change anyone's mind, and nobody is going to convince you that you are wasting hours of your life over something trivial.

 

[nobb]

I think the OP has already made up his mind, why bother arguing. I think the OP is so blinded by his fanboy attitude towards Linux that he feels threatened by anything that is a competitor to Linux (Microsoft).

Although you might not agree, the fact of the matter is, for the majority of users out there Windows is the best operating system period. The consumer doesn't want to bother with installing Linux, they want Windows. By including Windows with all systems, this benefits the average user in that the manufacturer can lower the cost of each system from bulk pricing.

Seriously, give it up, there's more important things to do in life rather than arguing about a stupid operating system. Go and demand your refund, you'll probably get it if you are persistent enough. All you will accomplish is to make yourself look like an ignorant and selfish fool. You will not accomplish anything as a consumer, so dont be surprised if Lenovo still does not offer a no OS option 10 years from now.

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

And, just FYI, op, the one court ruling you cite is a decision based on a small claims case where the defendant didn't show up. It's my understanding most rulings favor the side that shows up. Again, we're not saying you don't stand a chance of getting a refund. If you put the time into it, you will get a refund. However, on a note of the legality and morality of your actions, I am giving a big thumbs down. If you show up in small claims court and microsoft or lenovo doesn't show, you'll probably win, even if your case is weak. Since it's obviously not worth it to lenovo/microsoft to show up in court for a measly hundred dollars or so, they won't show and you will "win." However, don't delude yourself into thinking small claims court sets any sort of precedent or implies any "opinion of the court."

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch
And, just FYI, op, the one court ruling you cite is a decision based on a small claims case where the defendant didn't show up. It's my understanding most rulings favor the side that shows up. Again, we're not saying you don't stand a chance of getting a refund. If you put the time into it, you will get a refund. However, on a note of the legality and morality of your actions, I am giving a big thumbs down. If you show up in small claims court and microsoft or lenovo doesn't show, you'll probably win, even if your case is weak. Since it's obviously not worth it to lenovo/microsoft to show up in court for a measly hundred dollars or so, they won't show and you will "win." However, don't delude yourself into thinking small claims court sets any sort of precedent or implies any "opinion of the court."

I understand what you say. That might have an effect on the importance of the ruling, sure.


However, you are saying that if a person files for a refund he will most likely get it.

Does anything else matter?

If a person files for a refund, the OEM and MS are not going to bother defend themselves. Then more and more people sould do so.

People need to stand for what is right, if MS is not going to bother defend itself, then that is their problem. They probably knew they couldn't win, there was not much to the case, the statement is loud and clear in the EULA

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

Not bothering to defend is not the same as being guilty. You don't like microsoft, i understand that. But just because you dont like them doesn't make them automatically a bad company. That is your opinion. So, "the more and more people should do so" is not correct. Should is a question of morality, and in this case, I disagree. People should not try to defraud a company out of money they are not entitled to.

I'm going to say they definitely could win, not only because they have a stronger case, they could also hire much better lawyers than you if it was that important to them. They don't bother defending themselves because losing a couple hundred here is outweighed by the cost savings found with economies of scale, and the cost of defending themselves in each case would cost more than the meager amounts of money they would lose. However, if people started trying to pull this kind of fraud on a much larger scale, microsoft will be forced to defend themselves and, since as far as I can tell, microsoft and lenovo are not doing anything illegal, you and everyone who has tried pulling these shenanigans will lose.

 

[Andrew1990]

So, the Microsoft tax is $0(I say this because the laptop company is selling you a laptop, and just throwing the software in with it.) and what you want is a NO OS laptop for the people who know how to install their own OS. If they know how to install an OS, I am sure they know how to reformat a MS install and install their own flavor of OS.

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
So, the Microsoft tax is $0(I say this because the laptop company is selling you a laptop, and just throwing the software in with it.) and what you want is a NO OS laptop for the people who know how to install their own OS. If they know how to install an OS, I am sure they know how to reformat a MS install and install their own flavor of OS.

Thinking of it that way is pretty valid, also.

See, sometimes newegg does combo deals. Like buy a camera and you get a memory card for free with it if you also add the memory card to cart. In that case, you can't get the combo deal, then try to return just the memory card for a refund. It was free with purchase. If you want any money back, you'll have to return the whole combo deal. It doesn't matter if newegg got the memory card for free from the memory card maker or if it cost them $50. Either way, it was free TO YOU. Even though you could argue the cost has been incorporated into the cost of the camera, that was a business decision NEWEGG MADE.

In the same way, lenovo made a decision to include windows "free" to you with that laptop, along with all their other laptops. You can either return the whole laptop or accept that their product (Which you admit is the best on the market) includes a necessary "evil" (at least in your opinion).

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
So, the Microsoft tax is $0(I say this because the laptop company is selling you a laptop, and just throwing the software in with it.) and what you want is a NO OS laptop for the people who know how to install their own OS. If they know how to install an OS, I am sure they know how to reformat a MS install and install their own flavor of OS.

Well, I see what you say, it's valid thinking. But the EULA talks about a refund.

The refund can't be what the OEM wants you to believe there is.

Here is what the guy that won the case in court had to say:

Excuse: The software is only worth $10.

Answer: Okay. Send me the check.

Although this doesn't look like it, you've won a major victory with these words--that check is written evidence of the fact that the manufacturer owes you a refund. If you go to court, you don't have to establish that the company owes you something. All you have to do is establish the amount.

But before you do that, you should follow up with the company. There are several ways of doing this.

Follow up #1: I got your check for $10. You say Windows XP costs only $10, so I'd like to buy 100 copies please. To whom do I make out the check for $1000?

You won't sell me Windows XP for $10? I'll have to pay $199 for it? Then that means the check you sent me is too low. Please send me a check for the full amount.

Follow up #2: I got your check for $10. But your $10 price is far lower that the retail price of Windows XP ($199). Because of the vast difference in the amounts, I'm going to have to ask you for a copy of your purchase contract with Microsoft so I can verify the price.

You can't verify the price. Well, I can only find one documented price and that's $199. You'll have to pay that amount or document your price.

One company tried this excuse with me. When I asked for documentation, the customer service representative said, "I don't have access to price information".

"Then how did you come up with the $10 price figure?"

"I just know it's the right amount."

"So what you are really doing is guessing. Well, my guess is the software is worth $1,000,000. Tell you what, let's split the difference. Send me a check for $500,005."

Excuse: We'll give you a refund but that applies to only Microsoft Windows, not the other bundled software.

Answer: No problem. Please provide me with a copy of all the other software on another disk so I can install it under Linux using the Wine program.

 

[Andrew1990]

The thing is, the laptop company doesnt have to sell you any OS Copies as they sell laptops, and not OSes. If I built a computer, bought an OS on BULK discount from OS Company and through it in free or near free to help sell my PC, so be it.

The Laptop company is not in the business to sell OSes, they are in the business of selling Laptops. Now if they sell more laptops if they include a pre installed OS, then doing it will make them more money by selling more LAPTOPS.



The company I work for does this with stuff we manufacture as well. We throw something in for free if you are buying something very expensive.

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
So, the Microsoft tax is $0(I say this because the laptop company is selling you a laptop, and just throwing the software in with it.) and what you want is a NO OS laptop for the people who know how to install their own OS. If they know how to install an OS, I am sure they know how to reformat a MS install and install their own flavor of OS.

Well, I see what you say, it's valid thinking. But the EULA talks about a refund.

The refund can't be what the OEM wants you to believe there is.

Here is what the guy that won the case in court had to say:

Excuse: The software is only worth $10.

Answer: Okay. Send me the check.

Although this doesn't look like it, you've won a major victory with these words--that check is written evidence of the fact that the manufacturer owes you a refund. If you go to court, you don't have to establish that the company owes you something. All you have to do is establish the amount.

But before you do that, you should follow up with the company. There are several ways of doing this.

Follow up #1: I got your check for $10. You say Windows XP costs only $10, so I'd like to buy 100 copies please. To whom do I make out the check for $1000?

You won't sell me Windows XP for $10? I'll have to pay $199 for it? Then that means the check you sent me is too low. Please send me a check for the full amount.

Follow up #2: I got your check for $10. But your $10 price is far lower that the retail price of Windows XP ($199). Because of the vast difference in the amounts, I'm going to have to ask you for a copy of your purchase contract with Microsoft so I can verify the price.

You can't verify the price. Well, I can only find one documented price and that's $199. You'll have to pay that amount or document your price.

One company tried this excuse with me. When I asked for documentation, the customer service representative said, "I don't have access to price information".

"Then how did you come up with the $10 price figure?"

"I just know it's the right amount."

"So what you are really doing is guessing. Well, my guess is the software is worth $1,000,000. Tell you what, let's split the difference. Send me a check for $500,005."

Excuse: We'll give you a refund but that applies to only Microsoft Windows, not the other bundled software.

Answer: No problem. Please provide me with a copy of all the other software on another disk so I can install it under Linux using the Wine program.

While I agree even getting $10 back would be a major "victory" for you, i disagree that they owe you even that much. Like I said before, if I am say a carpenter who makes tables and with every table I sell you, I also include a free chair. It just so happens that my friend is much better at chair making than me so I don't actually make the chairs I give away with my tables, I buy them from my friend. My friend normally sells the chairs he makes for $25 each, but since I bought so many, he let me buy each chair from him for $10, and as long as I don't buy chairs from other suppliers, he'll keep giving me such a massive discount on the chairs.

Now if you buy my table and get my free chair, you are not entitled to returning that chair either to me or my friend to try to get $25 back. In fact, you are not entitled to getting $10 back either. You can either keep the chair and the table or return both. It's that simple.

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

Also, the EULA does not say you get a refund.

Let me repeat that, because apparently the more you repeat that it, the more true it is.

The EULA does not state that you get a refund.

The EULA does state that you are entitled to a refund, IF APPLICABLE.

Now, to me, and probably most people who read the EULA, the "if applicable" phrase means that when you didn't buy windows, you are not entitled to a refund.

And as much as you want to say you bought windows, you did not. You are entitled to use a copy of windows on that laptop because Lenovo bought a copy of windows and gave it to you for free when you entered into an agreement to buy a laptop.

I'm emphasizing words here to make sure you read them because it appears you selectively respond to my statements and ignore the points that you cannot rationally refute.

 

[Parasitic]

What Lenovo needs to do is to turn around and tell everyone that Microsoft subsidizes manufacturers the cost of Windows for manufacturers willing to install it onto their computers, then turn around and charge this guy for the invoice price of Vista Business.

As previously stated, I would love to buy a computer with OS delete as an option, if it offers me a discount. However I'm not about to go around calling companies to refund me the money.

 

[Parasitic]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

You keep spouting $130, the OS on that machine isn't worth that much.

Oh yes it IS


Maybe it's just me, but that guy is just being difficult. Lenovo has agreed to refund him the money, as long as he signs a NDA. I fail to see the problem. Not having much corporate law knowledge myself, I'm just going to assume that these types of NDA deals are just typical corporate procedure and there isn't anything wrong with that. He did decide to go public because of his agenda.

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Parasitic

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

You keep spouting $130, the OS on that machine isn't worth that much.

Oh yes it IS


Maybe it's just me, but that guy is just being difficult. Lenovo has agreed to refund him the money, as long as he signs a NDA. I fail to see the problem. Not having much corporate law knowledge myself, I'm just going to assume that these types of NDA deals are just typical corporate procedure and there isn't anything wrong with that. He did decide to go public because of his agenda.

No he is not.

Had he been about the money he would have taken it.

People like me are trying to get manufacturers to wake up and offer the public no OS options.

That's all we want.

When Lenovo offers people an NDA agreement there is no victory at all in that case, just money.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Did they contact you today like they said?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
People like me are trying to get manufacturers to wake up and offer the public no OS options.

That's all we want.

Dell Home...
http://www.dell.com/home/lapto...inux&a=51800~0~1932545

Dell Small Biz...
http://www.dell.com/business/l...inux&a=80770~0~1791343

HP has a phone number specifically for Linux, 1-888-HP-Linux.


The very stupid thing here is that you bought from a company which seems to be the ONLY company doing the very thing you're bitching about.

And the bottom line you seem to ignore is that you agreed to buy the laptop as configured. You knew it came with Windows, you agreed to buy it anyway, and now you want to break your agreement. You might as well be demanding they buy back the hard drive.

 

[Parasitic]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Parasitic

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

You keep spouting $130, the OS on that machine isn't worth that much.

Oh yes it IS


Maybe it's just me, but that guy is just being difficult. Lenovo has agreed to refund him the money, as long as he signs a NDA. I fail to see the problem. Not having much corporate law knowledge myself, I'm just going to assume that these types of NDA deals are just typical corporate procedure and there isn't anything wrong with that. He did decide to go public because of his agenda.

No he is not.

Had he been about the money he would have taken it.

People like me are trying to get manufacturers to wake up and offer the public no OS options.

That's all we want.

When Lenovo offers people an NDA agreement there is no victory at all in that case, just money.

Money must've been a factor. If he wasn't about the money he would've just shrugged and said, "oh well" then proceeded on wiping the drive and installing his favorite Linux distro. What most likely went down was follows:

1. He wanted to get a refund on Vista, so he called Lenovo.
2. After consulation, Lenovo agreed, but corporate policies require a NDA, similar to how cell phone companies put in the whole arbitration clause in contracts.
3. He was dissatisfied with the $130 offer (after all, a copy of Vista Business OEM probably did run much more than the $130 Lenovo was willing to refund him with (case in point).
4. Decided to go public, hoping that media attention could've net him with more money.
5. Lenovo was unwilling to bulge, and the website offered him the $130 in compensation. As a measure of saving faces, he took the $130 from the website.

If it wasn't about the money, he would've done the following:
1. Not bothering to even contact Lenovo in the first place.
2. Took the money and signed the NDA.
3. Mentioned and spread the word that Lenovo is committed to spend research and support effort on Linux...Lenovo's Compiled Linux Compatibility List (first google link with keywords "Lenovo linux", wasn't that hard to find.
4. Refused to take the compensation from the website.

And yes, Lenovo does sell preconfigured systems with Linux preloads, just no longer for the consumer market. You can't blame them for making a business decision like that. Try suing Apple for forcing OSX on all its customers. If you waited patiently enough or looked in Lenovo's other channels, you would've been able to purchase a computer without an OS or with a Linux distribution built-in.

It's like buying a car: just because you're only willing to pay $5000 for a red Mustang and can only get a blue one off the car lot, it doesn't mean Ford won't paint Mustangs red or sell them to customers. I'm certain that if you were willing to go through a different channel (say business or government) you would've been able to order a Thinkpad with a Linux distro or even without an OS preinstalled. However, you decided to order a computer off the consumer channel, which you should've known to only offer Windows as the OS, and chose to order one prebuilt from the outlet, no less, where computers are of existing stock. It's a bit unreasonable. It's like going down to the Ford dealership and screaming at the manager for them not able to sell you a Crown Victoria because Ford now chooses to only make them for fleets and not individuals

And like I mentioned earlier, would you have HAPPILY PAID THE FEE ON LABOR AND COST if Lenovo turns around and CHARGES you an X amount of money to have Linux or no OS on your computer? Car companies do this all the time - on sports cars "delete" options usually don't give you a refund on those parts removed, and in extreme cases "delete" options cost extra, like the BMW M3 CSL. The additional costs are apparently justifiable since they would have to pull a finished car off the assembly line and shipped off for additional processing, followed by ordering the additional parts (say plastic center console covers, heat shields, firewalls etc) and paying the labor to put them on. Yes, it's ridiculous, but you rarely see people complain about it.

What if this is the same situation with computers? Lenovo would have had to pay people to order a new and spare drive from their supplier instead of using ones that are already cloned/imaged, then they would have had to find somebody to pull the unit from the warehouse, somebody to install and test it, and somebody to repackage and inspect the machine, then maybe somebody to process the paperwork, pack and ship the thing? If they sent you a bill would you happily pay that?

And once again, I am on your side with OEM's needing to offer more choices when it comes to operating systems and software in general, but in some situations it's not a trivial task and you have to understand.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: heymrdj
If you want to be a free thinking linux open source junkie, buy an open source laptop. These companies are only supporting microsoft for one reason. You would be an idiot to design a company around anyones desire to install linux distros, support would be hell.

That's understood.

But all that doesn't matter. I have always used Thinkpads, they have features I can't work without. And to top it off, I got a great deal through Lenovo on this one. The thing that matters, EULA obliges them to comply with my reasonable demand.

Otherwise, they are going to have a chat with my legal representative about it.

Hahaha, this is the sign that you're full of it and just pandering. You're legal representative is going to tell you that you're wasting your time and his by persuing this any further.

Maybe when you ordered the laptop and saw that it came with Windows preinstalled you should have done something then. Perhaps you could have called Lenovo and asked if you can get it without Windows OS on it.
I'm not going to keep reading this post and all your invalid assumptions, as untimately I don't doubt all you will do is try a charge back on your CC and claim this as your reason.

 

[dementedlemur]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: heymrdj
If you want to be a free thinking linux open source junkie, buy an open source laptop. These companies are only supporting microsoft for one reason. You would be an idiot to design a company around anyones desire to install linux distros, support would be hell.

That's understood.

But all that doesn't matter. I have always used Thinkpads, they have features I can't work without. And to top it off, I got a great deal through Lenovo on this one. The thing that matters, EULA obliges them to comply with my reasonable demand.

Otherwise, they are going to have a chat with my legal representative about it.

Hahaha, this is the sign that you're full of it and just pandering. You're legal representative is going to tell you that you're wasting your time and his by persuing this any further.

Maybe when you ordered the laptop and saw that it came with Windows preinstalled you should have done something then. Perhaps you could have called Lenovo and asked if you can get it without Windows OS on it.
I'm not going to keep reading this post and all your invalid assumptions, as untimately I don't doubt all you will do is try a charge back on your CC and claim this as your reason.

You bought a refurbished laptop that comes as a package deal at a considerable savings off of a made to order new one.
If you wanted to pick and choose everything you got you should have done what JeffreyLebowski suggested, but then of course you wouldn't have the lower price you got by choosing refurbished.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Parasitic
What Lenovo needs to do is to turn around and tell everyone that Microsoft subsidizes manufacturers the cost of Windows for manufacturers willing to install it onto their computers, then turn around and charge this guy for the invoice price of Vista Business.

As previously stated, I would love to buy a computer with OS delete as an option, if it offers me a discount. However I'm not about to go around calling companies to refund me the money.

What if they charged you more for a no-OS option. Would you still take it?

 

[Parasitic]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: Parasitic
What Lenovo needs to do is to turn around and tell everyone that Microsoft subsidizes manufacturers the cost of Windows for manufacturers willing to install it onto their computers, then turn around and charge this guy for the invoice price of Vista Business.

As previously stated, I would love to buy a computer with OS delete as an option, if it offers me a discount. However I'm not about to go around calling companies to refund me the money.

What if they charged you more for a no-OS option. Would you still take it?

Me? No, but I'm not the one who's calling up Lenovo and arguing about the EULA.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
[

People like me are trying to get manufacturers to wake up and offer the public no OS options.

All 5 of you?


Honestly, your crusade is only going to end up costing business lots of money. Lots of money in processed returns when Joe Idiot buys a no-os machine and returns it because "it dont got windows". Lots of money in tech support when people want Lenovo to help them install linux. Etc etc.

It's just not worth the company's bottom line to please a very very very very very very niche minority.

 

[WackyDan]

Originally posted by: dementedlemur

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: heymrdj
If you want to be a free thinking linux open source junkie, buy an open source laptop. These companies are only supporting microsoft for one reason. You would be an idiot to design a company around anyones desire to install linux distros, support would be hell.

That's understood.

But all that doesn't matter. I have always used Thinkpads, they have features I can't work without. And to top it off, I got a great deal through Lenovo on this one. The thing that matters, EULA obliges them to comply with my reasonable demand.

Otherwise, they are going to have a chat with my legal representative about it.

Hahaha, this is the sign that you're full of it and just pandering. You're legal representative is going to tell you that you're wasting your time and his by persuing this any further.

Maybe when you ordered the laptop and saw that it came with Windows preinstalled you should have done something then. Perhaps you could have called Lenovo and asked if you can get it without Windows OS on it.
I'm not going to keep reading this post and all your invalid assumptions, as untimately I don't doubt all you will do is try a charge back on your CC and claim this as your reason.

You bought a refurbished laptop that comes as a package deal at a considerable savings off of a made to order new one.
If you wanted to pick and choose everything you got you should have done what JeffreyLebowski suggested, but then of course you wouldn't have the lower price you got by choosing refurbished.

Not to mention the fact that a refurbished laptop is stuck with the COA it originally came with per MS licensing. Something that there is no way around. If the OP thinks he knows so much, he should have known that. He likes to spout off on what is legal and not, but not on what is indeed the widely accepted licensing practice of Windows in the industry.

 

[DaFinn]

Wow, you have things pretty bad where you are at... I am an IBM and Lenovo partner, and:

1.) Lenovo offers both windows and linux versions.
2.) Refurbished computers come with freedos, but you can specify also windows that originally came with that model.
3.) For corporate customers there is a wide range of OSes to choose from...

so I dunno what you are bitching about? Surely had you just called them, they would've offered you an alternative. But no, you bought a copy with windows and then get difficult...