Attention Low-End/Midrange Gaming System Builders

[cbn]

I think splurging on a Z97 motherboard makes sense for anyone that thinks they will upgrade in the future. The G3258 is a great training CPU to learn most of the settings that would apply to much more expensive "K" CPUs with low cost and risk. It would be interesting to poll G3258 system builders to see how many plan to step up to an i5 or i7.

Although I like the Z boards, I personally think they made more sense in the past.

In the SB days a Z board allowed the user to overclock from 3.3 Ghz (i5-2500K) or 3.4/3.5 Ghz (i7-2600K/2700K) to 5.0 Ghz on air. (A 52% increase in clockspeed for the 2500K and 47% and 43% increases in clocks for the 2600K and 2700K respectively)

Ever since then, the potential gains from overclocking have been reduced with each generation of chip released (Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Haswell Refresh).

Now a person can even buy a i7-4790K with stock clock of 4.0 Ghz, that might get to 4.7 Ghz with overclocking. Furthermore getting that 4.7 Ghz clock would be only a 17.5% increase in clockspeed from stock, and unfortunately these gains also happen to be on the steepening part of the voltage curve.

In a nutshell, I think the Z boards are beginning to lose their value add attractiveness. And I have to wonder if this will get worse should Intel release a faster stock clocked i5-K, possibly with Broadwell. With a 3.9 GHz or 4.0 GHz stock clocked i5-K (and no substantial increase in OC headroom), I have to wonder how many will actually still overclock?

 

[Ken g6]

Is there a reason other than fear of Intel of removing overclocking ability that makes you want to avoid Non-Z overclocking for G3258?

Mainly that.

And non-Z boards aren't designed to overclock. (Witness the burning LGA2011-3 boards. Not saying that would ever happen with an H81 and a G3258, but it's more likely than with a Z board.)

And 8-series board BIOSes may not accept the Haswell Refresh chips in the first place.

G3258 will use RAM faster than DDR3 1333 if the user has a Z board. (confirmed on my own Z97 using DDR3 1600 RAM).

Its the Non-Z board that impose the limitation of 1333 RAM.

OK, good to know. Couldn't afford faster RAM this week anyway.

 

[crashtech]

I think mobo manufacturers are sensibly limiting maximum voltage to 1.3 or less on the non-Z boards so that damaging them by exceeding specs is pretty much not possible unless there is a malfunction of some kind.

But I think it is fair and totally understandable why we would not want to make non-Z overclocking an "official" recommendation. Anyone curious enough will find the required information quite easily right here.

 

[cbn]

I think mobo manufacturers are sensibly limiting maximum voltage to 1.3 or less on the non-Z boards so that damaging them by exceeding specs is pretty much not possible unless there is a malfunction of some kind.

That makes sense to me, and if we look at that MSI H81-E33 article I linked earlier in the thread a 4.3 Ghz OC Pentium G3258 is stressing the MosFets much less than a stock clocked i7-4790K:

https://translate.google.com/transl...258-dengan-msi-h81m-e33/6/&edit-text=&act=url

Using a Core processors i7-4790K the intake its pretty 'torture' Mosfet 2-phase of the H81M-E33, we found the operating temperature of 51 C, which includes the value is high enough, though not yet entered a dangerous level.

Pentium G3258 processor is overclocked to 4.3Ghz certainly ask less power than a Core i7-4790K. Here are the results of our MOSFET temperature readings while handling a G3258 @ 4.3Ghz:

(Pentium G3258 @ 4.3 GHz)

(Core i7-4790K @ stock speed)

......also G3258 specific Z97 boards like the Asrock Z97M Anniversary and ECS Z97-PK only come with 3 phase VRM without a heatsink:

(Asrock Z97M Anniversary)

(ECS Z97-PK)

Unless I am missing something that is basically low end stock power delivery specs for the G3258 specific Z boards. (And the ECS Z97-PK is claiming 4.7 GHz--> http://www.anandtech.com/show/8401/ecs-announces-z97pk-motherboard)

The main stand out feature of the motherboard is the ‘One Key OC’, which claims to boost the G3258 from 3.2 GHz to 4.7 GHz.

This an impressive claim, given the motherboard relies on a 2-3-phase power implementation with no power delivery heatsink – I would assume that ECS has performed enough testing on enough CPUs to make sure the 4.7 GHz value covers the majority of G3258 dies.

Then, in some cases, certain Non-Z boards actually appear to have better power delivery than the Z boards I mentioned above.

One example, would be the ASRock H97 Pro 4 (with four phase VRMs with heatsink) I listed in post #66:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36687590&postcount=66

(ASRock H97M Pro4)

 

[Ken g6]

On the other hand, all of this may be a moot point next week. Because I discovered the AMD Athlon 860K is finally available for purchase. So I'm thinking about making the OC build around it next week.

 

[crashtech]

On the other hand, all of this may be a moot point next week. Because I discovered the AMD Athlon 860K is finally available for purchase. So I'm thinking about making the OC build around it next week.

Haven't seen any benchmarks for this CPU. Do you know of any?

 

[Ken g6]

Based on speed, it should be identical to the A10-7850k, minus integrated graphics. So it should be really close to an i3 in most games, plus overclockable.

 

[cbn]

Based on speed, it should be identical to the A10-7850k, minus integrated graphics.

It is missing 2MB of cache compared to its A10 counterpart, which is the first time this has happened to a Athlon x4.

 

[Euro_Bucks]

I would like to share a build I am planning to get very soon
and you might wanna make it as a reference on your
upcoming purchase. Got these prices from newegg so
if you'll ask how much it would be on your country,
it would costs somewhere near these prices.

Cooler Master Elite 110 = $39
* One of the most cheapest ITX casing out there. Unlike Lian-Li's
and Silverstone's, you could fit a standard sized PSU in it.

Corsair CX 430 430W = $39
*430w of power is more than enough for this entire build

Biostar Hi-Fi B85N 3D = $69
*Cheap and has mosy of the features those famous brands currently has.
For this small platform, it has a good built-in audio.

Intel Pentium G3258 3.2 Ghz LGA 1150 = $69
*At $70 you get a special edition CPU from Intel. An unlocked
CPU that overclocks well with the Biostar Hi-Fi B85N 3D.

G.Skill Ripjaws X 4GB X 2 DDR3 1600mhz = $79
*G.sKill sports a cheap and a kickass design on their
rams. 8Gb with a 1600mhz speed is good enough to play current released games.

Zotac GTX 750Ti 1GB 128-Bit GDDR5 = $139
*Sports the new Maxwell architecture. A card so powerful to handle
games like Battlefield 4, Titanfall, COD Ghosts etc. that peaks at
insanely low 75 watts.

Western Digital WD Blue 1TB SATA = $59
1Tb is I think a pretty good enough capacity for this build.

Total = $493
(monitor excluded)

A budget gaming PC that can handle latest games @ full HD.
It has a small foot print that you could put it almost anywhere
on your table.

I need inputs, thanks guys.

 

[crashtech]

I like it well enough. I personally would probably pick one of the ASRock boards from this list, but some here report good results with Biostar, so why not.

 

[Euro_Bucks]

I like it well enough. I personally would probably pick one of the ASRock boards from this list, but some here report good results with Biostar, so why not.

Not to mention they now offer 3 year warranty. I guess they are pretty confident with their boards uh

 

[crashtech]

Not to mention they now offer 3 year warranty. I guess they are pretty confident with their boards uh

The other part that is concerning is whether or not it will OC the G3258. I have not seen any reports either way.

 

[Tim]

So is this weeks Intel budget really much better than the AMD budget? Trying to decide between the two.

 

[crashtech]

The 860K is pretty compelling as a budget gaming CPU. I lean towards Intel most of the time because of their stunning IPC lead, but once overclocked, that 860K should perform on par with something like an i5-2500 (non-K).

 

[monkeydelmagico]

So is this weeks Intel budget really much better than the AMD budget? Trying to decide between the two.

Tough to do good comparisons because there are not any good x4 860k reviews/tests out yet.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2400839

You'd be the coolest kid on the block if you got the AMD and tested it for us :awe:. I doubt it would be a mistake, seems like AMD brought a great budget chip to the table.

If you are not into overclocking then the i3 is definitely the way to go.

 

[Ken g6]

[thread=2400839]There have been some benchmarks[/thread], mostly non-english. But based on the cache being the same as the A10-7850k, I stand by my earlier link to that benchmark for an un-overclocked CPU. A slide at the first link implies that overclocking to 4.3GHz gets a 20% performance improvement, so figure that into the AnandTech benchmark as well.

 

[crashtech]

I will go so far as to say that if you know for sure you are going to have heavy CPU utilization, the 860K might be a better choice based on what I have seen, even if it is not overclocked.

But for a machine that will see only casual gaming or old games that are poorly threaded, the i3 is a bit better as an all-rounder.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Found a sweet deal on a Z87 mother board so here's a build:

Motherboard: ECS Z87 mATX - $41. AR AP
CPU: G3258 - $55.
Storage: Seagate 1TB Hard Drive -$49.
Memory: Crucial 4gb stick - $36.
Case: Fractal Core 1000 - $25.
Power Supply: EVGA 430w $20. AR
Video Card: MSI R9 280 - $170. AR
Operating System: Windows 8.1 - $90.

All prices include shipping so other than taxes as applicable this is a nice box for little scratch

Total: $486

 

[Ken g6]

I don't know if I'd trust a 430W PSU to power an R9 280. 250W for the GPU, plus 100W for the CPU OCed is very close to the 408W 12V limit for that PSU. A 285 would be safer, but is at least $30 more.

Edit: Better I should take my own advice and choose the Antec Neo Eco 620C for just $15 more.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

I don't know if I'd trust a 430W PSU to power an R9 280. 250W for the GPU, plus 100W for the CPU OCed is very close to the 408W 12V limit for that PSU. A 285 would be safer, but is at least $30 more.

Edit: Better I should take my own advice and choose the Antec Neo Eco 620C for just $15 more.

Truth, especially if you take advantage of the overclocking potential that both the G3258 and the R9 280 offer.

Gotta admit though getting an R9 280 AND overclocking potential for both the CPU and GPU at $500.- is a budget tweaker's dream build. A Z mobo with potential for a unlocked 4 core when funds allow is like icing on the cake

 

[crashtech]

Perhaps a 520W minimum PSU ought to be specced out for these machines. If these low-end PCs are presented as an entry into a PC-building hobby, a 430W PSU would quickly be maxxed out by upgrading to an i5 and an R9-290, for example.

 

[doubledeluxe]

Quick question but are there any H81 boards that work out of the box for the Haswell Refresh CPU's?

I'm building something with a 4460 instead of your I3 but having to double the price of the motherboard defeats the purpose.

 

[mfenn]

Quick question but are there any H81 boards that work out of the box for the Haswell Refresh CPU's?

I'm building something with a 4460 instead of your I3 but having to double the price of the motherboard defeats the purpose.

It's hard to guarantee because you need to have a board with an updated BIOS. If you're buying in person (like at MicroCenter, Fry's or wherever) it's probably easy enough to return the board if it doesn't happen to work. If you know somebody who has a Haswell CPU that they'd be willing to let you borrow, then that's work too. Otherwise you can roll the dice, if you pick a popular board, then it's likely that the stock is new enough to have an updated BIOS.

 

[doubledeluxe]

Hmmm. I'm still overseas buying parts for family so that won't work. I'll just suck it up and buy a 9 series board then to avoid any potential headaches.

The only other thought I had is if there are budget boards that allow bios flashes without a working CPU installed.

 

[crashtech]

Hmmm. I'm still overseas buying parts for family so that won't work. I'll just suck it up and buy a 9 series board then to avoid any potential headaches.

The only other thought I had is if there are budget boards that allow bios flashes without a working CPU installed.

10 bucks more and you could just get a 4670 that will not only work with H81, it will also be a bit faster than the 4460.