AV Receiver and 5.1 speakers recommendations needed

[txlonghorn]

I am just getting my feet wet in the HT arena and I need lots of help in the audio section.

Here is my current setup:
* HTPC based on AMD 780 Chipset with HDMI output
* Philips 5960 upconverting DVD player with HDMI output
* Pioneer PDP-5070 plasma TV

The HTPC and the DVD player are connected to the TV via HDMI cables. The setup works fine for video, but the audio is severely lacking. This is why I am researching to buy an AV receiver and 5.1 speakers.

Ideally, I want to connect all the sources to the receiver with only HDMI cables. From what I have read, lower end receivers only provide "pass through" HDMI connectivity, which does not carry audio signals. With those receivers, I have to connect digital audio out from the source to the receiver. Is that correct?

If my understanding of the "pass through" HDMI connectivity is correct, then that pretty much rule out any inexpensive HTIB setup. I started looking at various AV receiver and speaker combination and got overwhelmed. I need some recommendations to narrow down my research.

A friend recommended Paradigm Cinema70 CT and Yamaha RX-V665. That is my starting point. Feel free to chime in and add more recommendations.

My needs are simple: The setup is geared toward watching DVDs. I may use the HTPC to stream some contents from the net, but I don't expect HD audio from that use. I am holding off on Blue Ray for now, so loss-less HD audio decoding is a bonus, but not a requirement. HDMI only connectivity is a big deal to me, as I don't want cable clutter.

Any help is appreciated.

ps. Can AMD 780 chipset output digital audio via HDMI? I read the AnandTech review of 780 chipset and its does not output LPCM audio over HDMI. If my understanding of the article is correct, it just means that the 780 chipset won't decode digital audio onboard. It is not clear to me if it can output the digital audio via HDMI. Can someone set the record straignt for me?

Thanks

 

[notposting]

It will just do stereo over HDMI is my understanding. For whatever reason, they didn't fix this in the 785G update either.

 

[shortylickens]

For that budget I would just go to a Radio Shack or Best Buy and look at Yamaha's and Sony's.
Then I'd go online and get the same thing for half as much money.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16882780021
This is a great speaker setup for 549 bucks. Then you just need an amp and some cables. Honestly I would go with a reasonably priced Yahama or Sony reciever. Make sure it has SPDIF inputs as well as HDMI. I promise you will want plenty of options, even if you think you know what you want right now. It will sound fine, and as technology progresses you will likely need to upgrade your reciever to keep up. But those speakers can last forever. Much like the upgrade path for a camera and lenses.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16882117301
Actually, in the 200-800 dollar price range I prefer Pioneer. This one has assloads of inputs.

 

[nsafreak]

It'd help us a little if we knew what kind of space you're putting this in for speaker recommendations. However the Paradigm 70 CT setup that your friend recommended is quite nice. However on the receiver end of things I would stay away from Sony and Yamaha, Sony more so than Yamaha. Non ES line gear from Sony is crap and their ES line gear would put you over budget. Yamaha receivers have a tendency to be tonally "bright" some people like it, some people don't I'm one that doesn't but frankly Yamaha receivers aren't too great for your money nowadays. Receiver wise I'd recommend something along the lines of a Harman Kardon AVR-254, Onkyo TX-SR607 or a Denon AVR-1910.

 

[Onita]

Originally posted by: nsafreak
It'd help us a little if we knew what kind of space you're putting this in for speaker recommendations. However the Paradigm 70 CT setup that your friend recommended is quite nice. However on the receiver end of things I would stay away from Sony and Yamaha, Sony more so than Yamaha. Non ES line gear from Sony is crap and their ES line gear would put you over budget. Yamaha receivers have a tendency to be tonally "bright" some people like it, some people don't I'm one that doesn't but frankly Yamaha receivers aren't too great for your money nowadays. Receiver wise I'd recommend something along the lines of a Harman Kardon AVR-254, Onkyo TX-SR607 or a Denon AVR-1910.

Listen to this.

 

[txlonghorn]

It will just do stereo over HDMI is my understanding.

So, AMD 780 won't transmit digital 5.1 audio over HDMI at all? If that is the case, then there goes my single cable requirement. Can someone confirm or deny this statement?

I did come across the Klipsch Quintet 5CH speakers in my earlier search on Newegg. However, lack of any review and the unknown "free 8" subwoofer with purchase" kind of scared me away. Can anyone comment on these speakers and the free 8" sub?

As for the Pioneer..... The link is to VSX-919-AH-K. I have been looking at VSX-819H-K as I don't need 7.1. 5.1 is good enough for me. I have read good reviews of Pioneer receivers.

It'd help us a little if we knew what kind of space you're putting this in for speaker recommendations.

The listening room is 15' X 15'. I have speaker wire pre-wired at 4 corners, 12" from the ceiling. So, I am committed to small satellite speakers. No floor standing or bookshelf speakers for me.

For that budget I would just go to a Radio Shack or Best Buy and look at Yamaha's and Sony's.

I went to BB today and looked at their Denon DHT 590BA HTIB package for $499. It is the Denon AVR 590 (same as AVR 1610) receiver sold with Boston Acoustics? MCS 90 5.1 speakers. It has everything I need and only costs 1/2 of my budget. Thoughts?

Thanks for the inputs guys. The Pioneer and Denon recommendation made me feel pretty good about my research effort. I am not too much off the mark.

 

[nsafreak]

So, AMD 780 won't transmit digital 5.1 audio over HDMI at all? If that is the case, then there goes my single cable requirement. Can someone confirm or deny this statement?

I can confirm it, the chipset will not do 5.1 audio over HDMI at all. You do have some alternatives if you're willing to invest a little in your HTPC. A pretty fair number of the Radeon 3800 & 4800 series will pass LPCM over the HDMI output. My Radeon 4870, overkill for a HTPC I know just giving an example.

I did come across the http://www.newegg.com/Product/...1&ref=dynamitedata.com">Klipsch Quintet 5CH speakers</a> in my earlier search on Newegg. However, lack of any review and the unknown "free 8" subwoofer with purchase" kind of scared me away. Can anyone comment on these speakers and the free 8" sub?

I've listened to my fair share of Klipsch speakers and the Quintets are pretty nice. Very solid horn based design. I don't know about the subwoofer though. If it is made by Klipsch then it should be just fine, if it isn't then its a tossup.

As for the Pioneer..... The link is to VSX-919-AH-K. I have been looking at VSX-819H-K as I don't need 7.1. 5.1 is good enough for me. I have read good reviews of Pioneer receivers.

Pioneer receivers are ok, although most folks tend to go with their Elite series and stay away from the base models.

I went to BB today and looked at their Denon DHT 590BA HTIB package for $499. It is the Denon AVR 590 (same as AVR 1610) receiver sold with Boston Acoustics? MCS 90 5.1 speakers. It has everything I need and only costs 1/2 of my budget. Thoughts?

Thanks for the inputs guys. The Pioneer and Denon recommendation made me feel pretty good about my research effort. I am not too much off the mark.

The Denon receiver that is a part of that bundle is a pretty solid receiver. My only concern with it is the lack of HDMI inputs. You have a total of 3 inputs on that receiver and all of your devices are going to be using those inputs, presuming you get a video card that can pass LPCM audio via HDMI. You could get a switch later down the road if you want sure but you may want to consider if that's the road you want to take.

Insofar as the speakers are concerned I haven't listened to too many Boston Acoustics speakers. The reviews that I've read about them generally are good but a Best Buy showroom is probably one of the worst enviroments to listen to any speaker in. It's not going to be anything close to the acoustics of your room at home and there's the other noise to be concerned about. You may wan to see if there's a shop in your area that deals with just selling home audio & video systems to folks and auditioning in one of their rooms. They'll likely have the Boston Acoustics and Paradigm speakers to listen to so that you can compare them to each other.

 

[txlonghorn]

I can confirm it, the chipset will not do 5.1 audio over HDMI at all.

Dang it. I'll have to live with HDMI + TOSLINK cables for now. Less than ideal.....

The Denon receiver that is a part of that bundle is a pretty solid receiver. My only concern with it is the lack of HDMI inputs.

3 is more than I need right now. I don't game and I have no plan to get any gaming console. The plan is to use the HTPC for all the playback. I don't even need the DVD player as I can play DVD with the HTPC. I am sitting on the side line regarding Blue Ray until the technology stack becomes easier to use and more compatible. Also my TV is only 720P. When Blue Ray matures to the point I see fit (and with accompanying price drop), I'll just pop in a Blue Ray ROM in the HTPC and skip the standalone BR player all together.

Best Buy showroom is probably one of the worst enviroments to listen to any speaker in

Agree. But I have 30 days to try it at home. I checked with the sales clerk. I can return it within 30 days for a full refund. I don't even need to keep the original box. The package deal is priced right, but the BA speakers are ugly. Especially the Sub. It is made of plastic. I did more research last night and I may buy just the receiver and this set of Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers. It will cost $700 total, $200 more than the packaged solution, but the Energy speakers just look so much better.

 

[nsafreak]

Understood on your points, I just prefer having more open inputs "just in case" since there have been occasions when I thought I had enough inputs and further down the road I found out that I did not. If the subwoofer for the Boston Acoustics set is made of plastic then that would definitely make me wary as well. I just can't imagine that a subwoofer made out of plastic would have the kind of solid bass punch that goes well with a home theater instead of a boomy bass. I've heard good things about the Energy speakers in general so it looks like you have a good solution there with the Denon receiver and the Take Classic 5.1 setup

 

[qbfx]

I agree about cheap Sony receivers, and yeah ES series are good but more expensive. However, I myself own a Yamaha RX-V650 and can tell you that, while I agree that they tend to sound bright, they give a VERY accurate and clean sound and if you couple them with the right speakers their sound quality is hard to beat for the price. Oh and they're one of the few, no matter what some people would say, that rate their RMS output realistically. My receiver is rated at 7x95W RMS at 8Ohms, yet it has been measured at more than 7x105W (I have yet to digg the review where they measured the output but it was a source that you can trust). For the speakers, I'd suggest you look at Mirage speakers and HT packages.

 

[mc866]

I just got 5.1 dolby digital(AC3) and DTS pass through to work on my Gigabyte 780G setup over HDMI. I've had the HTPC for a couple months but just bit on a Onkyo 607 refurb that I purchased for $331.00. I struggled with getting it setup all weekend. When I go to the Gigabyte audio setup my only option for the HDMI output is 2 channel stereo, but if I go into the audio devices in the vista menu of the control panel I can go to advanced options and select dolby digital and DTS as options for playback. I am also given the option to test these from this menu and when I test each of them my receiver clicks and indicates that it's receiving DD and DTS signals and plays the test sounds. This puzzled me because no matter what I did when playing back avi and mkv files with AC3 and or DTS signals I was only able to get 2 channel stereo. I dawned on me that I should check out the AC3 filter codec I was using, I went into the settings and changed it to 3/2 + SW 5.1 Channels and it now works.

 

[txlonghorn]

Originally posted by: mc866
I just got 5.1 dolby digital(AC3) and DTS pass through to work on my Gigabyte 780G setup over HDMI.

That's awesome! We have very similar setup. My HTPC mobo is also a Gigabyte running Vista Ultimate 64. Definitely marking this thread for future reference when I buy my receiver and speakers.

Where do you configure AC3 codec properties?

 

[mc866]

I installed the AC3 filter codec along with ffdshow. In the AC3 filter options I had to change the output option from 2 channel to 3/2 + SW 5.1 and it then worked. I still don't think I'll be able to pass through DTS HD from my blu-ray drive but I only have a 5.1 system so I'm just happy to have DD and DTS work over HDMI.

 

[mc866]

Oh and for the receiver/speaker suggestion I've been hearing good things about the energy take 5 or 5.1 packages. You can find them at amazon or newegg. That or possibly some polk's which seem to be on sale all the time over at newegg, actually right now newegg is offering a pair of polks with a few of their Onkyo receivers, the 607 being one of them. For the receiver I would stay with a denon, yamaha, or onkyo personally.

 

[txlonghorn]

I've listened to my fair share of Klipsch speakers and the Quintets are pretty nice. Very solid horn based design. I don't know about the subwoofer though. If it is made by Klipsch then it should be just fine,

I chatted with a Newegg rep online and confirmed that the sub is made by Klipsch. It is Klipsch SW-350 Subwoofer

I installed the AC3 filter codec along with ffdshow

I just skimmed the website about the AC3 filter codec. I am currently using the Vista Ultimate MCE. I don't recall any settings for the built-in codec. If I install AC3 filter codec, will MCE use it instead?


After days of research and countless mind changes, I think I am going to settle on the Denon AVR 590 / Energy Take Classic 5.1 combo. Beside having great reviews, I just love the Take Classic look.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[nsafreak]

Originally posted by: txlonghorn

I installed the AC3 filter codec along with ffdshow

I just skimmed the website about the AC3 filter codec. I am currently using the Vista Ultimate MCE. I don't recall any settings for the built-in codec. If I install AC3 filter codec, will MCE use it instead?


Thanks for all the suggestions.

Glad I turned out to be wrong on this section of your questions. Once you make the change on a system level MCE should use that codec.

Congrats on your future purchase.

 

[txlonghorn]

Congrats on your future purchase.

Thanks.

Purchase update:
I just pulled the trigger on a Denon AVR 1610 (the upscale version of Denon 590) and Energy Take Classic 5.1.

Got the Denon 1610 from Electronics-Expo.com for $378 - $99 discount + $29.99 shipping - $18.90 (5% Bing cash back) = $290.09

(I stumble upon this deal over at Slickdeals.net while searching for the best price. The 2 months old code not only works, the discount went up to 26%!)

Got the Energy speakers from Acousticsounddesign.com for $399 - $32 (8% Bing cash back, free shipping) = $367.

Let's hope the system lives up to the expectation.

Thanks for all the help.