Avatar made me want to throw up

[SKORPI0]

I just wonder what "movie" weflyhigh was watching. Cause I did not see anything he mentioned.

Sure there were ex-marines in Avatar, but I did not see any American Flag shown or U.S. Marine patches on the people who were in Pandora. These were hired guns by a big corporation whose sole mission was try to "convince" natives to move out from their land so obtain "Unobtanium" worth $20 million/kg. The American gov't you criticized was in no way involved.

 

[Steeplerot]

Fragging your CO is unheard of, yep.

 

[sourceninja]

Man, the OP must of REALLY hated playing Gears of War.... I mean Marcus Fenix was a sergeant in a human military squad on another planet fighting aliens who was jailed for ....... abandoning his military post during wartime. That has to be as bad as treason.

Same with starcraft, humans with US military style titles, committing treason and you go right along with it!

 

[Zebo]

Yeah message was a bit weak but I felt like a kid again 1977 again when Star Wars first came out totally shit myself at effects and visuals and jaw was on the floor throughout the film. You need to step back from politics once and awhile and enjoy the moment IMO.

 

[santz]

The OP is very naive, its only a movie.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

1. OK
2. The "Sky People" never once made the first move without due warning. They wanted the tree and so they took it. Eminent domain. I am sure the resources provided under that tree could be used to help save many American lives - why else would it be so valuable. The natives were being greedy. They did not have to die and they did not have to retaliate. If they wanted to retaliate, that is fine, but do not expect sympathy.
If all had gone according to plan, NO ONE would have died and who knows what benefits would have come. Not to mention, they are not even humans. If a dog is sitting on top of an epipen and I get stung by a bee, you better believe I will put my human life over that dog's to get it. And be justified. I am saying this as an ASPCA volunteer, too.
3. Treason can be considered worse than murder and rape when you look at it like this: a government is set up by people to protect those people. That protection includes protection from things like murder and rape and then also punishment of violators. Treason, specifically, is the betrayal of that government and the entire system. Destroying the government also destroys laws and essentially ALLOWS murder and rape.
4. The ranks matched up specifically with those of America - not to mention American names, dialects, armor, features, etc.
5. I put that in there to say that I might be biased. You are a douchebag for turning that around any other way.

Ummm Eminent Domain works if you're in the jurisdiction of that government. Hate to break it to you, but Earth's government (not America btw, there was never any specific nation mentioned in the movie just simply the planet Earth) does NOT have jurisdiction over another planet because we're there. Yes we could forcefully take control, but I'd hope we've learned by that point in time to try to live with other cultures instead of just destroy them.

Regardless, your immenent domain comment was pretty ignorant and makes me think you're just trolling.

 

[PJABBER]

I went to see this movie with the family last evening and had a blast.

1. The greenies were obviously doing significant dips of the local peyote buds. Everything glows and they talk to trees, c'mon. Just like on Earth except here the hero would be riding in on his white horse Mescalito.

2. Sigourney Weaver was tougher kicking Alien ass. And what's up with the smoking? She couldn't give it up while they were filming? Wouldn't taxes be like $1000 a pack by then? My kids liked the explosions and the awesome make believe world but were freaked at her smoking. Go figure. Oh yeah, her character is a liberal academic - do as I say, not as I do.

3. The anti-corporate message was a hoot as the movie took $250 million to make. And is likely to make a significant profit over that based on the opening week figures. Exploit the greenies, they will buy anything that looks eco-pretty!

4. I really liked the Colonel Miles Quaritch character. Came off as very mission focused, as guys with his responsibility have to be. The likelihood of stoned anachronistic greenies standing up to future weapons systems is, like, zero, unless the plot requires it for political correctness. The good Colonel, however, should have had much more effective mission planning. And, once he was committed, he should have made sure there was nothing left moving to threaten his withdrawal from the AO. Obviously he failed to reference the local equivalent of TC No. 1-400 -

https://rdl.train.army.mil/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/public/22650-1/TC/1-400/toc.htm#toc

And, in particular, develop an effective SOP derived from Chapter 3 - Reconnaissance/Security/Attack Operations -

https://rdl.train.army.mil/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/public/22650-1/TC/1-400/chap3.htm

Ah well, the character is an unrequited ground pounder, with a USMC Force Recon background to boot. I guess he didn't get much command time in with a MAG, which would have been more useful in the end.

5. Michelle Rodriguez (as Trudy Chacon,) should have been shot down much earlier. Poor flight line security for plot line convolution enabled that certain redemptive quality to manifest itself. Only in the movies!

6. The Parker Selfridge character seems oddly out of place on Pandora. Sort of like Obama in the White House, if you know what I mean. The whole Earth presence is always represented as "bad corporate," rather than "bad government" or "bad military" but one of those three is all we can really expect from Hollywood.

Avatar is good entertainment, catch it on IMAX!

 

[PimpJuice]

Anybody else recognize Colonel Miles Quaritch? He was Ike Clanton in Tombstone. He sure has been working out since then.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

SPOILERS

Let me say the movie looked AMAZING and the special effects were mind blowing. But, about half? way into the movie, I started to want to throw up:
The main characters of the movie do a complete 180 and started MURDERING their fellow soldiers and American comrades.
I understand if you do not believe in what your government is doing - and if you believe this strongly enough you can get a dishonorable discharge from the military - but to literally a) steal American weapons and then b) use them to kill those Americans you fought side by side with and are contracted under law with to serve fully and honorably just made me sick.

When that girl helicopter pilot turned her American helicopter around and started firing at her superiors, my stomach started turning. I felt no sympathy at all when she got blown up.
Treason is arguably the WORST crime a person can commit. In fact, it is the only crime documented in the US constitution. If she wants to turn her helicopter back, refuse to fight, and get sent to prison for disobeying the law, then she can - that is her only right.


Another thing that bothered me was the fact that the natives would have gotten stomped on if 1) they did not use any of the "Sky Peoples"'s weapons or 2) they hadn't gotten extremely fortunate (those explosives were seconds from being dropped before a stolen grenade stopped it - and then the second grenade that blew the hole).

I'm not a fan of any movie that shows the American military being defeated.

Notes:
I know there are threads on the movie, but I want this thread to be specifically about this part of the movie and also about Americans being defeated in movies in general.
I am contracted in the Army ROTC.

First of all, you're not ROTC, no 12 year old is ROTC and if you're older than that... The US Army is going to have problems.

Second, turning on an unlawful order is the responsibility OF EVERY SOLDIER even if that means using force to prevent it from being carried through.

 

[mwmorph]

Is this some long joke or is the OP serious?

Firstly, it is ridiculous to assume former servicemen turned corporate mercenaries in any way represent or are connected to the original branch of service. All of us in the Army know people that have left to earn more money at Blackwater/Xe but that doesn't mean they are still American soldiers anymore just because they play dress up in uniforms with weapons overseas. There is a difference, I've seen the training facilities Xe has, I've seen their pay offers and I've seen how it is run. Xe lacks everything the Army stands for, especially Honor

Secondly, as an actual U.S. Army Soldier, I can't even fathom his train of thought. Anyone that has been in even IET/BCT or even reception for more than 3 days would know that all soldiers are under oath to obey LAWFUL orders.

All military personnel are required by Duty, one of the 7 army values to refuse unlawful orders, which with even a passing knowledge of the UCMJ, constitution and geneva convention and various other international treaties would be able to see were rampant in this movie if it were to happen in reality.

You think chemical weapon usage and civilian massacres are lawful orders? You think american interests should be furthered by unjustified killing of anyone "not american" so long as it's convenient? You seriously believe in Manifest Destiny in this day and age? Really goes to show all the crazies aren't all on Al'Queda's side.

I hope to god you flunk out of your ROTC or JROTC program because I would never want to see your undiscplined, radical, misanthropic ass in my unit. It's people like you behind the reason why the My Lai Massacare happened. 99.9% of us are just here, trying to do the right thing, and support our country it's lunatics like you that screw it up and make the rest of us look bad.

 

[Kanalua]

"If you want to send a message, call Western Union"

Cameron will not recreate his Titanic success with Avatar. People don't like message movies as much as pure mind numbing entertainment: See the list for yourself...

 

[weflyhigh]

Second, turning on an unlawful order is the responsibility OF EVERY SOLDIER even if that means using force to prevent it from being carried through.

You are wrong. You are not authorized to turn against an unlawful order and most certainly not required to do so - only to not obey it (with accepting the fact that you will be locked up until judgment is decided)

Is this some long joke or is the OP serious?

As an actual U.S. Army Soldier, I can't even fathom his train of thought. Anyone that has been in even IET/BCT or even reception for more than 3 days would know that all soldiers are under oath to obey LAWFUL orders.

All military personnel are required by Duty, one of the 7 army values to refuse unlawful orders, which with even a passing knowledge of the UCMJ, constitution and geneva convention and various other international treaties would be able to see were rampant in this movie if it were to happen in reality.

You think chemical weapon usage and civilian massacres are lawful orders? You think american interests should be furthered by unjustified killing of anyone "not american" so long as it's convenient? You seriously believe in Manifest Destiny in this day and age? Really goes to show all the crazies aren't all on Al'Queda's side.

I hope to god you flunk out of your ROTC or JROTC program because I would never want to see your undiscplined, radical, misanthropic ass in my unit. It's people like you behind the reason why the My Lai Massacare happened. 99.9% of us are just here, trying to do the right thing, and support our country it's lunatics like you that screw it up and make the rest of us look bad.

RTFT.

- Refuse unlawful yes, retaliate no.
- The unlawfulness of the orders in the movie were not obvious if present at all. Even if they were unlawful, refer to the above.
- "Civilian" implies human.
- "Convenient" implies there are other methods. There were none possible within this plot.

 

[lifeobry]

Anybody else recognize Colonel Miles Quaritch? He was Ike Clanton in Tombstone. He sure has been working out since then.

Holy shit. I can't believe it's the same guy.

 

[daw123]

This thread is amusing.

I wonder if some of the posters would have the same sentiments if the US (or any other home country) was invaded purely for financial gain by a more powerful, previously unknown foe. I know that the movie doesn't specifically mention an Earth nation and it in fact states that it is a corporation (with government backing?). However, I mentioned the US specifically due to a previous unethical / immoral poster *cough* weflyhigh*cough*.

Personally, I was rooting for the aliens throughout the movie and I was happy about the (predictable) result of the battle. The humans invaded an alien planet, expected the indigenous populous to relocate so that they could steal a resource, they fought and the humans lost (and they deserved to lose).

 

[Ichigo]

USA!

USA!

USA!

USA!

USA!

allz y'allz otherz just bitchez.

 

[Dangerer]

induct this into the ownage of the year hall of fame

 

[weflyhigh]

induct this into the ownage of the year hall of fame

I agree. People all came in, said the same thing thinking they were moral butterflies, got disproved and then walked away with their tails between their legs and didn't reply

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

You are wrong. You are not authorized to turn against an unlawful order and most certainly not required to do so - only to not obey it (with accepting the fact that you will be locked up until judgment is decided)



RTFT.

- Refuse unlawful yes, retaliate no.
- The unlawfulness of the orders in the movie were not obvious if present at all. Even if they were unlawful, refer to the above.
- "Civilian" implies human.
- "Convenient" implies there are other methods. There were none possible within this plot.

Son, i'm a Captain in the SAS and i can tell you, without any doubt that it is ANY soldiers responsibility to act against unlawful orders OR actions. It rarely happens with our enemy but i'd like to think that we are better than them, if i didn't i wouldn't be doing what i do.

I didn't see the movie for reasons obvious to some but not to others (figure it out, it's not THAT hard) and your arguments are retarded at best and stupid all the same.

 

[zerocool84]

I agree. People all came in, said the same thing thinking they were moral butterflies, got disproved and then walked away with their tails between their legs and didn't reply

Look who's talking. You say you won when you didn't even answer everyone's post and only answer the ones that you wanted to but you're still wrong on every point. Sad to see someone with your limited brain power training to be an officer in the Army. You've been owned time and time again in this thread and haven't even answered the posts of the guys that are IN THE MILITARY that are disproving everything you're saying.

 

[weflyhigh]

Look who's talking. You say you won when you didn't even answer everyone's post and only answer the ones that you wanted to but you're still wrong on every point. Sad to see someone with your limited brain power training to be an officer in the Army. You've been owned time and time again in this thread and haven't even answered the posts of the guys that are IN THE MILITARY that are disproving everything you're saying.

I have not directly responded to everyone's replies because that would be completely unnecessary (copy and pasting myself from other replies). I have replied to every topic brought up, though, and no one has replied to anything I said to discredit me - so I'll just assume they changed their minds afterwards.
If I am wrong saying that - SHOW me so I can fix it.

And actually... if I remember correctly... out of the replies I made, the longer ones that explain most have been to people "in the military". You say that like I am not in the military, too.

 

[destrekor]

You are wrong. You are not authorized to turn against an unlawful order and most certainly not required to do so - only to not obey it (with accepting the fact that you will be locked up until judgment is decided)



RTFT.

- Refuse unlawful yes, retaliate no.
- The unlawfulness of the orders in the movie were not obvious if present at all. Even if they were unlawful, refer to the above.
- "Civilian" implies human.
- "Convenient" implies there are other methods. There were none possible within this plot.

You bet your sweet ass the day we ever encounter an alien civilization, either a new set of Conventions will be established, or the Geneva and/or Hague Conventions will most definitely be updated to make sure non-human civilizations are included.

And when those are updated, the U.S. will follow suit and update the UMCJ to protect peaceful non-humans.

And if you are going to be an Officer in the modern military, if you are not prepared to act immediately in the face of criminal actions (unlawful orders/actions are unlawful, you do NOT need to wait for the military judicial system to say so months later), please, don't follow through with your obligation.
In fact, you are bound by your oath to do whatever is necessary to prevent any unlawful acts from being carried out.
Yes, it is basically guaranteed someone who stood against unlawful activity will they themselves face the Military Judicial system in some shape or form, though I cannot for sure if it'd get as far as a Court-Martial (military court). A lot of pre-trial investigation may help clear things up.

It seems the current ROTC structure leaves more advanced education in regards to Military Law and Officer duties to be taught inthe Senior year, which I do not agree with, but I am but a peon compared to the top brass who do all this thinking stuff.

2 quarters away, then I graduate from the realm of Cadidiot land to just being Lost.

 

[Riceninja]

OP trolls hard, y'all

fuck the military

 

[destrekor]

And actually... if I remember correctly... out of the replies I made, the longer ones that explain most have been to people "in the military". You say that like I am not in the military, too.

take it from me, you're not exactly IN the military when you are simply a contracted cadet. In the same boat here.
If you aren't prior service or in the N.G. or Reserve, you're a lowly Cadet.

When an E-1 outranks you, you aren't in the military.

 

[Vonkhan]

When an E-1 outranks you, you aren't in the military.

As the kids say these days - pwnd

 

[Nik]

Son, i'm a Captain in the SAS and i can tell you, without any doubt that it is ANY soldiers responsibility to act against unlawful orders OR actions. It rarely happens with our enemy but i'd like to think that we are better than them, if i didn't i wouldn't be doing what i do.

I didn't see the movie for reasons obvious to some but not to others (figure it out, it's not THAT hard) and your arguments are retarded at best and stupid all the same.

Owned.