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holden j caufield

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 1999
6,324
10
81
my friends have convinced me to see this in imax. I think that's a gimmick but whatever it's only $3 more $13 on a sat night for reg or $16.50 for imax. WTF $13 for movie is just stupid. I just paid $16.50 online
 

idiotekniQues

Platinum Member
Jan 4, 2007
2,572
0
71
TBH I really can't get excited for a movie that has humans as the BAD guys. I just don't feal like I should be cheering for aliens to kill humans. I'm going to go see it obviously though for the special effects, but the plot will probably annoy me a bit. Its just another movie like Transformers, its fun to watch once, but that's it.

On another note, maybe as I get older i am getting more conservative, but alot of the movies coming out these days seem to have liberal plots which annoy me. Like when all of the bad guys in all of the movies are big business or the military?

you have some issues. take care of them.
 

Dufusyte

Senior member
Jul 7, 2000
659
0
0
Jake needed to be wasting away and getting sicker and weaker as he neglects his "real life" and chooses to live more in his avatar. This was hinted at, but it should have been dramatic so that by the time his lover Neytiri finds his real body in the trailer (or whatever it was), she sees just a shriveled weak wasted worm of a man, and nothing like the strong warrior she fell in love with. And then, in that context, she looks upon him and says, "I see you!" and she embraces him with love because she has come to love the spirit of the man, and not just his warrior prowess. And then have him near death at the end, but the tree does its magic and then you have a real happy ending, both a tragedy (his real body dies from neglect) and hope (rebirth at the tree). This would give the film and the love story much more needed punch.

Otherwise, as it stands, I did not believe the love story. Neytiri seems to just go for the strongest warrior, and that is very superficial on her part. As soon as Jake falls on hard times (suspected as a betrayer) she dumps him. And then as soon as he swoops in on the biggest bird, she loves him again. She is like a girl who goes for whoever is driving the snazziest car. That is just superficial, and I wanted to see her go beyond that, and love Jake even as a worm (see above). That would have been growth in her character; sad it never happened.

Other gripe is that Cameron likes his women to be Rambo. Ok, you have one female rambo per movie (e.g. Sarah Connor), but in Avatar *every* woman is rambo: Neytiri, Rodrigez, and Ripley. The film needed someone to play a girl (not a Xena). So I was hoping Neytiri would become somewhat more feminine (in the traditional sense). Even the love scene was cut short. The actress voicing Neytiri seemed to be all venon, and 99% of her lines are spat out. So this hurt the love story aspect, since she was a spitting cat and never became a cuddly cat. And for most humans, it's all about the love story, cf. Titanic, which remains Cameron's greatest triumph, and my favorite.

It's all about the characters, and the character I sympathized the most with was the military dude Quaritch: a fatherly figure trying to protect his people and do his job. You can tell he has a simple mind and does not grasp the treehugger persoective, but you can forgive him that since he is not a man of great enlightenment. You can't fault him for lacking a higher level of consciousness to tune in with the trees. He's meat and potatoes, and it's kind of sad to see him go.

Meanwhile the girl Neytiri seemed superficial as noted above, so I didn't really like her, and she is not the kind of girl/character I would ever fall in love with, and the guy Jake was kind of equivocal since he seemed to be playing both sides, and you get the feeling that if the Marines had beat the Na'vi, then he would have quickly assimilated back into human society. He is duplicitous, and when he gets caught on tape smashing the video cameras, you know he wished he could have remained sneaky, and he would have prefered to have not been outed. So he was very comfortable playing both sides, (which makes him a despicable character) and he was embarrassed to be outed. I would have prefered him to take a stand, rather than been caught on tape to his chagrin. I would have liked him to be wasting away (see above) and then get into a shoving match with Quaritch, which would have shown his courage to take a stand, but it would simultaneously been pathetic since he was a wheel bound skeleton, and then later in the final man to man fight have him enter into a shoving match again with Quaritch, but this time in his avatar body, where the tables are turned.

So anyway, the Jake character was kind of spineless, and Quaritch's summary of him is true: he found "local tail" and went with it. In a sense Jake is as superficial as Neytiri: they both side with whoever is winning, with whoever is driving the biggest car, and whoever is paying out the most.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
I know Cameron has a fantastic history, I know these fantastic reviews are coming out, but I just can't believe it. It looks so.. bad.
I don't get that take. There is nothing I ever read or saw about this movie that made me think it was going to be bad movie. In fact everything that has come out about this movie was positive.

The people who saw the 15 min trailer said it was awesome. The trailers looked good if not amazing, but how often do trailers look 'amazing'? And all the advance press has been good.

About the only negative things I have seen or heard have been from the 'anti' brigade that populates ATOT.
 

Proprioceptive

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2006
1,630
10
81
Just saw it today in 3D. I also noticed that it's up for best picture at the Golden Globes. While I don't agree it is Best Picture material, it was damn good and damn impressive. The world JC created is just mind-bogglingly detailed and amazingly intricate. I really enjoyed the experience, particularly with the 3D effects. 3D was definitely used to its potential for this film. JC's story here was rather cliche, but the way he presented it was worth every dime I spent.
 

TecHNooB

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
7,460
1
76
Jake needed to be wasting away and getting sicker and weaker as he neglects his "real life" and chooses to live more in his avatar. This was hinted at, but it should have been dramatic so that by the time his lover Neytiri finds his real body in the trailer (or whatever it was), she sees just a shriveled weak wasted worm of a man, and nothing like the strong warrior she fell in love with. And then, in that context, she looks upon him and says, "I see you!" and she embraces him with love because she has come to love the spirit of the man, and not just his warrior prowess. And then have him near death at the end, but the tree does its magic and then you have a real happy ending, both a tragedy (his real body dies from neglect) and hope (rebirth at the tree). This would give the film and the love story much more needed punch.

Otherwise, as it stands, I did not believe the love story. Neytiri seems to just go for the strongest warrior, and that is very superficial on her part. As soon as Jake falls on hard times (suspected as a betrayer) she dumps him. And then as soon as he swoops in on the biggest bird, she loves him again. She is like a girl who goes for whoever is driving the snazziest car. That is just superficial, and I wanted to see her go beyond that, and love Jake even as a worm (see above). That would have been growth in her character; sad it never happened.

Other gripe is that Cameron likes his women to be Rambo. Ok, you have one female rambo per movie (e.g. Sarah Connor), but in Avatar *every* woman is rambo: Neytiri, Rodrigez, and Ripley. The film needed someone to play a girl (not a Xena). So I was hoping Neytiri would become somewhat more feminine (in the traditional sense). Even the love scene was cut short. The actress voicing Neytiri seemed to be all venon, and 99% of her lines are spat out. So this hurt the love story aspect, since she was a spitting cat and never became a cuddly cat. And for most humans, it's all about the love story, cf. Titanic, which remains Cameron's greatest triumph, and my favorite.

It's all about the characters, and the character I sympathized the most with was the military dude Quaritch: a fatherly figure trying to protect his people and do his job. You can tell he has a simple mind and does not grasp the treehugger persoective, but you can forgive him that since he is not a man of great enlightenment. You can't fault him for lacking a higher level of consciousness to tune in with the trees. He's meat and potatoes, and it's kind of sad to see him go.

Meanwhile the girl Neytiri seemed superficial as noted above, so I didn't really like her, and she is not the kind of girl/character I would ever fall in love with, and the guy Jake was kind of equivocal since he seemed to be playing both sides, and you get the feeling that if the Marines had beat the Na'vi, then he would have quickly assimilated back into human society. He is duplicitous, and when he gets caught on tape smashing the video cameras, you know he wished he could have remained sneaky, and he would have prefered to have not been outed. So he was very comfortable playing both sides, (which makes him a despicable character) and he was embarrassed to be outed. I would have prefered him to take a stand, rather than been caught on tape to his chagrin. I would have liked him to be wasting away (see above) and then get into a shoving match with Quaritch, which would have shown his courage to take a stand, but it would simultaneously been pathetic since he was a wheel bound skeleton, and then later in the final man to man fight have him enter into a shoving match again with Quaritch, but this time in his avatar body, where the tables are turned.

So anyway, the Jake character was kind of spineless, and Quaritch's summary of him is true: he found "local tail" and went with it. In a sense Jake is as superficial as Neytiri: they both side with whoever is winning, with whoever is driving the biggest car, and whoever is paying out the most.

Nice critique.
 

Adrenaline

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2005
5,320
8
81
I liked it. I did not see it in 3-D as I have had eye surgeries and my vision is not the same in each eye. The storyline has been done before but then again it is hard to come up with something unique that has not been done before and make it an enjoyable movie. I will get it on blu-ray when it comes out.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,776
31
81
I just got back...

SPOILER ALERT










The movie is basically Matrix + Dances with Wolves + Lord of the Rings sprinkled in.

It is a dazzling movie from an FX point of view. Cameron created a whole new world down to the nth detail, including a new language. He is the master at this.

Otherwise, I felt the movie was very predictable. I guessed the ending half way through.

Overall, I am glad I saw it. It needs to be seen on the big screen, 2D or 3D or otherwise. I may see it one more time but that will be it.

Of course, expect quite a bit of anti-war (Iraq references, Bush references, etc.), anti-capitalism, and pro-environment rhetoric.








END SPOILER ALERT
 

Poulsonator

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2002
1,597
0
76
Saw this in 3D at the IMAX in Pointe Orlando. Possibly the most beautiful and captivating movie I've ever seen. The story was shit and the criticisms are absolutely fair, but I honestly don't know if any movie has ever transported me away like Avatar did. Pandora blew my mind and the attention to detail was insane.

I cannot recommend seeing this in 3D at a real IMAX enough.

It's nice to have you back, Mr. Cameron.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,776
31
81
Saw this in 3D at the IMAX in Pointe Orlando. Possibly the most beautiful and captivating movie I've ever seen. The story was shit and the criticisms are absolutely fair, but I honestly don't know if any movie has ever transported me away like Avatar did. Pandora blew my mind and the attention to detail was insane.

I cannot recommend seeing this in 3D at a real IMAX enough.

It's nice to have you back, Mr. Cameron.

Yep, I would move there...and "connect" with all that stuff...I loved the how everything glowed.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
0
I saw it at a digital theatre but not in 3D... effects were great but plot was sub-par. Very predictable. Evil white corporate types stealing the resources of of the peaceful indian types. Military is all a bunch of jarheads. Of course whitey and his friends have 'destroyed' their home planet while the native people live at peace with all creatures, plants, things, and each other. The anti-war undertones were quite annoying. Why not just have GWB as the commander killing Arabs for Oil?

Ending very predictable.. you can guess it very shortly into the movie. Whitey leaves in disgrace back to their barren planet while native people defeat them using rocks and sticks (Ewok battle anyone?).

Not a complete waste of time but nothing more than 'meh' from me. Best movie I have seen in a long time was 'The Blind Side'.. I felt that storyline was 100x more captivating than blue forest people defending mother nature from evil whitey.
 

lifeobry

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2008
1,326
0
0
Saw this in 3D at the IMAX in Pointe Orlando. Possibly the most beautiful and captivating movie I've ever seen. The story was shit and the criticisms are absolutely fair, but I honestly don't know if any movie has ever transported me away like Avatar did. Pandora blew my mind and the attention to detail was insane.

I cannot recommend seeing this in 3D at a real IMAX enough.

It's nice to have you back, Mr. Cameron.

YEEAH buddy :awe:

I wouldn't say the story was shit, it was predictable yes but no gaping holes that I could fit my body thru. But yeah I liked what you said about transporting to a different world. YEEAAAH :awe:
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Saw this in 3D at the IMAX in Pointe Orlando. Possibly the most beautiful and captivating movie I've ever seen. The story was shit and the criticisms are absolutely fair, but I honestly don't know if any movie has ever transported me away like Avatar did. Pandora blew my mind and the attention to detail was insane.

I cannot recommend seeing this in 3D at a real IMAX enough.

It's nice to have you back, Mr. Cameron.

So it's a really superb tech demo?

Well, at least I hope this tech gets re-used in a more suitable film in the future. I never thought I'd say this, but Halo seems like it has a better storyline than what I've gathered from the summaries I've read online.
 

Poulsonator

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2002
1,597
0
76
YEEAH buddy :awe:

I wouldn't say the story was shit, it was predictable yes but no gaping holes that I could fit my body thru. But yeah I liked what you said about transporting to a different world. YEEAAAH :awe:

Yea, 'shit' was probably too harsh. 'Unimaginative' is a much better word. Considering how much imagination it took to bring Pandora to life, it's unfortunate some of that imagination wasn't used on the story.

I think one of the things that could have improved the story immensely would have been to expand, at least just a little, on how bad the situation on Earth was. For the vast majority of the movie, the humans are painted as nothing but evil and greedy. Yet, it's mentioned a few times how there was "no green left" on Earth and life sucked back there. Maybe starting the movie on non-green shitty Earth would have changed our perceptions of the humans, showing them as trying to survive vs. just being dicks.

There are a few other problems (I didn't really care about any of the characters; the flippity-floppity Jake/Na'vi trust thing; Jake taming that huge bird by simply flying above it; etc.), but honestly, I went in for the visual effects and Cameron delivered on a level I could have never imagined.
 

Poulsonator

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2002
1,597
0
76
So it's a really superb tech demo?

Well, at least I hope this tech gets re-used in a more suitable film in the future. I never thought I'd say this, but Halo seems like it has a better storyline than what I've gathered from the summaries I've read online.

Nah, it's not that bad at all. The story is the weakest part of the movie, without a doubt, but it's still damn good entertainment.

I will say, though, that there is no way in hell I would have enjoyed this nearly as much had I waited to watch it on DVD (like I typically do as going to the theater usually blows). I'd been waiting for this to come out to bust my 3D IMAX cherry, and needless to say, James Cameron worked me like it was prom.
 

Adrenaline

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2005
5,320
8
81
I saw it at a digital theatre but not in 3D... effects were great but plot was sub-par. Very predictable. Evil white corporate types stealing the resources of of the peaceful indian types. Military is all a bunch of jarheads. Of course whitey and his friends have 'destroyed' their home planet while the native people live at peace with all creatures, plants, things, and each other. The anti-war undertones were quite annoying. Why not just have GWB as the commander killing Arabs for Oil?

Ending very predictable.. you can guess it very shortly into the movie. Whitey leaves in disgrace back to their barren planet while native people defeat them using rocks and sticks (Ewok battle anyone?).

Not a complete waste of time but nothing more than 'meh' from me. Best movie I have seen in a long time was 'The Blind Side'.. I felt that storyline was 100x more captivating than blue forest people defending mother nature from evil whitey.

Avatar was a make believe storyline whereas The Blind Side was real. How often does a storyline come across that is unique and does really really well for a whole movie? One that keeps you captivated. I enjoyed it because it is a movie and it is hard to come up with something that hasn't been done in some other form close to it.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Hey, I just heard an interview with James Cameron on NPR on the way home a little bit ago, and it actually made me consider seeing the film.

Cliffs of the interview :

(1)- Ridley Scott visited the set during filming, and is very interested in using a lot of this new tech on a new Sci-Fi film to begin preproduction after his Robin Hood film wraps.

(2)- He didn't at all pretend that there wasn't a deliberate political undertone to the film, he honestly said he made some digs at the Bush administration and went on about Iraq/Afghanistan. Although I don't necessarily think using this stuff as subtext in a fantasy film is a good idea, I applaud his honesty here at least.

(3)- I noted that 95% of what he was focused on in the interview was tech, tech, tech, tech, the guy really doesn't seem to give a shit anymore about the plot or characters. He didn't have one thing to say the entire time about plot/motivation, other than the overall obvious inspiration from how 'evil' colonization and the manifest destiny ethos is.

Given all that straight from the man himself, I think I might enjoy this as a purely technical display, and steel myself for a totally brainless visceral experience much in the same vein as Transformers or '300'. I doubt I'll see it very soon, but will at least try to catch in theatres at some point.
 
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