B-Ball GOAT and General Career Ranking Thread

[Perknose]

To forestall the continued derailing of Kobe's condolence thread, let's have the ranking arguments here. I'd have to think about it further, but initially, I'd have Jordan and LeBron in the top two spots, exact order yet to be determined given LeBron is still playing at a high level.

I'd also like to add that these sort of rankings across eras is kind of a red-faced asshole exercise.

Just saying. Let's all have at it anyway!

 

[KMFJD]

Bill Russel
MJ
Lebron
the rest...

 

[purbeast0]

I think that most people will say that "the best" on their list would be "the best of their generation" simply because they were around during it actually happening.

And for me it is Jordan. And I would argue that to the grave lol.

It's also hard to say who is the best when we're talking across generations just because the game is so different.

 

[OccamsToothbrush]

Bill Russel
MJ
Lebron
the rest...

Even that simple a list isn't a slam dunk. Chamberlain was better than Russell in every measure except championships won and that was solely because of the strength of the Celtics of that era. Put Wilt on that team and he'd have a dozen rings.

MJ/LeBron too close to call
Wilt
Russell
Kareem
then all the rest.

Kobe would be on the level of Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, etc

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

How much do you factor in the rest of the teams in your calculations?

Lebron did great and won championships with Miami when you had 3 all-star players together. Not so much when he went back to Cleveland and now with LA.
Jordan had Pippen

I'm just saying that you can have a great player on a crappy team - so how do you factor that in to the evaluation?

 

[purbeast0]

How much do you factor in the rest of the teams in your calculations?

Lebron did great and won championships with Miami when you had 3 all-star players together. Not so much when he went back to Cleveland and now with LA.
Jordan had Pippen

I'm just saying that you can have a great player on a crappy team - so how do you factor that in to the evaluation?

Uh what?

 

[OccamsToothbrush]

How much do you factor in the rest of the teams in your calculations?

Lebron did great and won championships with Miami when you had 3 all-star players together. Not so much when he went back to Cleveland and now with LA.
Jordan had Pippen

I'm just saying that you can have a great player on a crappy team - so how do you factor that in to the evaluation?

Jordan had a hell of a lot more than Pippen, those Bulls teams were stacked with guys that were not superstars, but were GREAT in their respective roles. Russell was on the strongest team for 15 years. Kareem and Magic had each other and Worthy and Wilkes, Scott and Cooper. Bird had Parish, McHale, Maxwell, DJ and a whole host of great roleplayers. Nobody in the NBA ever won alone, even Wilt had a couple of hall-of-famers behind him during his championships.

Great players make crappy teams competitive, but not winners. All the greatest players ever in the NBA won only when they had strong lineups. So call it a wash. But in terms of single-handedly making weak teams dangerous Wilt and LeBron were by far the two best ever.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Jordan had a hell of a lot more than Pippen, those Bulls teams were stacked with guys that were not superstars, but were GREAT in their respective roles. Russell was on the strongest team for 15 years. Kareem and Magic had each other and Worthy and Wilkes, Scott and Cooper. Bird had Parish, McHale, Maxwell, DJ and a whole host of great roleplayers. Nobody in the NBA ever won alone, even Wilt had a couple of hall-of-famers behind him during his championships.

Great players make crappy teams competitive, but not winners. All the greatest players ever in the NBA won only when they had strong lineups. So call it a wash. But in terms of single-handedly making weak teams dangerous Wilt and LeBron were by far the two best ever.

Yeah I'm just thinking that there are players that were incredibly talented - but just never got that winning team combo and thus went more unnoticed or were knocked down on the "best" list through no real fault of their own.

 

[purbeast0]

Yeah I'm just thinking that there are players that were incredibly talented - but just never got that winning team combo and thus went more unnoticed or were knocked down on the "best" list through no real fault of their own.

Charles Barkley
Shawn Kemp
Russel Westbrook
James Harden

There are TONS of those players out there. Those were the 4 that I thought of off the top of my head across multiple generations.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I'd say Jordan, Kobe, Duncan, LeBron.
In that order.
No one can argue that a prime Tim Duncan couldnt have easily beaten any other team with any of those guys in my top 4. We just don't know. He could easily be number one.

 

[Perknose]

MJ/LeBron too close to call
Wilt
Russell
Kareem
then all the rest.

Kobe would be on the level of Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, etc

Not exactly, but I kind of like your list and the follow-on, fwiw.

 

[OccamsToothbrush]

Charles Barkley
Shawn Kemp
Russel Wilson
James Harden

There are TONS of those players out there. Those were the 4 that I thought of off the top of my head across multiple generations.

I've got a wild hunch that maybe Russell Wilson would not have kicked ass in the NBA.

As for the others, no, no and hell no. Barkley was underrated because he played on some bad teams, but he was nowhere near on the same level as the other guys we're talking about here. Same for Kemp.

As for Harden, when you look at a player like LeBron, Magic or Bird they raised the level of everyone around them. Harden is the exact opposite. The only reason you talk about Harden is because he plays on weak teams and becomes an offensive black hole while everyone else stands around and watches. He's a great SCORER, not a great PLAYER and there is a world of difference between the two. Is Harden a guy that can ever be a winner? The more players you surround him with the worse he gets because he can't play D, rebound, pass, set picks or do anything else that helps other good players become a good TEAM. Bird, LeBron, Magic could easily have become one-man shows who jack up off-balance shots all night and score a ton of points, but they didn't because that doesn't work.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Charles Barkley
Shawn Kemp
Russel Wilson
James Harden

There are TONS of those players out there. Those were the 4 that I thought of off the top of my head across multiple generations.

Stockton, Malone, Nash

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I've got a wild hunch that maybe Russell Wilson would not have kicked ass in the NBA.

As for the others, no, no and hell no. Barkley was underrated because he played on some bad teams, but he was nowhere near on the same level as the other guys we're talking about here. Same for Kemp.

As for Harden, when you look at a player like LeBron, Magic or Bird they raised the level of everyone around them. Harden is the exact opposite. The only reason you talk about Harden is because he plays on weak teams and becomes an offensive black hole while everyone else stands around and watches. He's a great SCORER, not a great PLAYER and there is a world of difference between the two. Is Harden a guy that can ever be a winner? The more players you surround him with the worse he gets because he can't play D, rebound, pass, set picks or do anything else that helps other good players be better. Bird, LeBron, Magic could easily have become one-man shows who jack up off-balance shots all night and score a ton of points, but they didn't because that doesn't work.

 

[ondma]

My list would include: Jordon (# one for sure), then in no particular order, Russell, Chamberlin, Kareem, Lebron, Bird, Magic, and then the rest. Someone nobody has mentioned is Oscar Robertson. Fantastic player, but played in the era of Celtics domination.

 

[OccamsToothbrush]

Was that video taken while the guy Harden was supposed to be guarding was dunking unopposed on the other end of the floor?

My list would include: Jordon (# one for sure), then in no particular order, Russell, Chamberlin, Kareem, Lebron, Bird, Magic, and then the rest. Someone nobody has mentioned is Oscar Robertson. Fantastic player, but played in the era of Celtics domination.

Good call. Robertson is the only guy mentioned so far that had the talent level of the guys like Lebron and Jordan, but got overlooked because his teams were bad.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Was that video taken while the guy Harden was supposed to be guarding was dunking unopposed on the other end of the floor?

No idea - I don't even disagree with your post I just thought it was a good response


Anyhow, would anyone consider hakeem olajuwon on their top 5?

 

[purbeast0]

I've got a wild hunch that maybe Russell Wilson would not have kicked ass in the NBA.

As for the others, no, no and hell no. Barkley was underrated because he played on some bad teams, but he was nowhere near on the same level as the other guys we're talking about here. Same for Kemp.

As for Harden, when you look at a player like LeBron, Magic or Bird they raised the level of everyone around them. Harden is the exact opposite. The only reason you talk about Harden is because he plays on weak teams and becomes an offensive black hole while everyone else stands around and watches. He's a great SCORER, not a great PLAYER and there is a world of difference between the two. Is Harden a guy that can ever be a winner? The more players you surround him with the worse he gets because he can't play D, rebound, pass, set picks or do anything else that helps other good players become a good TEAM. Bird, LeBron, Magic could easily have become one-man shows who jack up off-balance shots all night and score a ton of points, but they didn't because that doesn't work.

Hahaha ... definitely meant Russell Westbrook

 

[OccamsToothbrush]

Hahaha ... definitely meant Russell Westbrook

I put Westbrook in the same class as Carmelo. Would you really want to build a team around that guy? No. Would you be comfortable putting him on a team that's already good and expecting to take a lesser role? No. Can he pass and set up other players? No. Play defense? No. What exactly is Westbrook good at because nobody has ever been able to explain that? He's a guy like Kyrie Irving, if he's your best player you're fucked and if he's not your best player he's not going to be happy and will be a cancer to team chemistry.

 

[JM Aggie08]

There's an unforgivable absence of Tim Duncan in the posts above.

 

[zinfamous]

MJ
Russell
Kareem
O
Duncan
Wilt
LeBron

 

[zinfamous]

I've got a wild hunch that maybe Russell Wilson would not have kicked ass in the NBA.

He would have been great on the Rockies, though, if he had honored their drafting of him!

 

[zinfamous]

Anyhow, would anyone consider hakeem olajuwon on their top 5?

Overall, no. But I consider him ....like top-3 centers or so, all of which would be equally dominant and simply on a position-value basis, I find it hard to pick one over the other.

I think Wilt, Kareem, Olajuwon, Russell, Shaq, etc.

Honestly, I would prefer Kareem or Olajuwon over the others, because they had some nasty jump shots and could score anywhere they wanted at medium range, dominate in the center, D, and hit their free throws. Everyone else (OK, except for Russell, I guess), had exploitable weaknesses. Russell didn't have a Skyhook or a Dreamshake, though, ....so you get credit when you have a named move!

 

[OccamsToothbrush]

He would have been great on the Rockies, though, if he had honored their drafting of him!

He did honor their drafting him. He played two seasons in the Rockies organization minor league affiliates and had a career batting average under .230

Anyhow, would anyone consider hakeem olajuwon on their top 5?

Top 5 not close. Top 10 no. Yes for top 20

 

[zinfamous]

I notice that no one has Steph Curry in their list...curious...and damn, it's only been like, 2 years since he was proclaimed "Greatest Ever and someone like MJ was never even great at one thing...."

lol. wtf is Speedy when you need him to own that shit?