Bachelors Degree, Has it lost its edge and its value?

[marvdmartian]

BS degrees should still hold their value fairly well. IMHO, they require a higher level of effort to achieve.

BA degrees are becoming dime-a-dozen, it seems. The universities seem able to come up with any program to award a liberal arts degree, and seem to push them as equally as valuable as a BS degree. Which I believe is a foolish way for anyone to think.

Stop and think about it. If the world goes to shit, would you rather have an engineer available......or someone with a degree in Art History??

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

It depends on the degree. An easy four year degree doesn't really mean much more then that person was willing to sit in a classroom for four years and do what people told them to do.

A rigorous degree shows much more then just that, it also shows that person can handle pressure and difficult assignments as well as having a certain level of brainpower that is not indicated by a lesser degree. Two years of Calculus courses for example demonstrates a capacity for high level thinking that is not the equal of two years of English courses.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What I am hearing seems to be that not having a degree can be a negative... That is, not having one can hold you back. But having one just gets your resume passed along with all the rest.

Which is a bit different than a degree being something that would open doors or provide opportunities.

Uno

Errr, how? Many places require degrees and the only way to get in is to have a degree. In other words, the degree is providing an opportunity and opening doors.

My company is the king of people having worthless degrees and portraying people who have worthless degrees as "intelligent" for getting those degrees. I remember someone bragging about a person who graduated with high honors with a degree in Canadian Studies. No, I am not kidding.

 

[unokitty]

Errr, how? Many places require degrees and the only way to get in is to have a degree. In other words, the degree is providing an opportunity and opening doors.

It a bit of a subtle difference.

It is one thing, if a credential allows you to be considered for an exceptional opportunity.

It is another thing entirely, if you can't get considered for an ordinary opportunity without that credential.

The question here is does a degree elevate you into consideration for an exceptional job, or is the situation such that without a degree, you can't even be considered for an ordinary job.

That is, is the Bachelors degree now more like what the HS degree was in 1950?

Again, a bit subtle. But I think an important difference.

Uno

 

[IndyColtsFan]

It a bit of a subtle difference.

It is one thing, if a credential allows you to be considered for an exceptional opportunity.

It is another thing entirely, if you can't get considered for an ordinary opportunity without that credential.

Every company claims they offer exceptional opportunities, so good luck trying to differentiate between those opportunities. My company has best-in-class benefits and perks and you could argue that ANY opportunity to be employed at my company is an extraordinary opportunity and yet, they were even trying to mandate a degree requirement for admin assistants.

The question here is does a degree elevate you into consideration for an exceptional job, or is the situation such that without a degree, you can't even be considered for an ordinary job.

The more important question in my mind is this -- is the knowledge obtained through a degree program necessary to do most jobs? And I'd answer that with a resounding "No."

That is, is the Bachelors degree now more like what the HS degree was in 1950?

There has been a lot of debate in this thread about this question and I say it depends on the degree program. Your average liberal arts degree? Yeah, it is the same today as a HS degree was in the 50s. An engineering degree? No, it is still an elite degree and I am not saying that because I have one and was well on my way to an MSEE before I stopped and changed careers.

 

[Triumph]

Not everyone can be engineers, physicists, molecular biologists, etc. If everyone could, then those degrees would be worth less as well. I think the lesson here is that if you don't have a degree, then get one as cheaply as you can. Two years of community college then graduate to a state school is probably the best way to go.

 

[unokitty]

Examples of ordinary opportunities:

The Bureau of Labor Statistics tells us that we now have 115,000 janitors, 83,000 bartenders, 323,000 restaurant servers, and 80,000 heavy-duty truck drivers with bachelor's degrees ... [1]

On the other hand, as IndyColtsFan points out, some companies provide best-in-class opportunities.

Perhaps the answer is that some degrees now provide ordinary opportunities whereas some can still provide extraordinary opportunities.

But overall, its starting to look like the Bachelors degree, for many people, has lost its edge.

Uno

 

[NeoV]

if you compare the avg salary of people with them and people without them, it's clear it still has a ton of value..it's really not even close

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

 

[Ns1]

if you compare the avg salary of people with them and people without them, it's clear it still has a ton of value..it's really not even close

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

chart does not take into account crushing student loans and opportunity costs of education.

Education is a great place to start but not the end all be all solution for everyone.

 

[child of wonder]

My 2 year degree that allows me to pull in six figures must be like a junior high education then.

I am teh fail.

 

[unokitty]

if you compare the avg salary of people with them and people without them, it's clear it still has a ton of value..it's really not even close

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

Those statistics are based on past performance. There is no guarantee that they will be valid in the future.

Uno

 

[6string]

In the tech field its worthless, experience will trump a degree.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

My 2 year degree that allows me to pull in six figures must be like a junior high education then.

I am teh fail.

There are millionaires who were high school dropouts, billionaires who dropped out of college, and loads of PhDs who are making minimum wage. It all comes down to opportunities and more importantly, how we seize those opportunities.

Nevertheless, I'd still strongly advise people to get the 4 year degree because of the way companies are becoming with respect to filtering based on degrees. Even if you have a great job you love today, you never know if or when it might end and it is best to be prepared. Now, as someone said earlier, I would not spend loads getting it, either. I'm even thinking of getting an MBA through WGU because that it the cheapest way for me to get one. At this point in my career/life, I can't take 2 years off and go full time to Harvard or another top school and the initials count more for anything else.

Take it from someone who has a BSEE and very nearly completed his MSEE -- if you finish up a 4 year degree just to have it on your resume, pick something easy to major in.

 

[Baasha]

Totally depends on the major.

Any STEM field, you are pretty much required to have at least a BS, if not graduate degree (except for CS).

In other words, if you want to be quite sure of a decent-paying job, learn to get good at math. It's really that simple. Dumb fucks...

 

[child of wonder]

There are millionaires who were high school dropouts, billionaires who dropped out of college, and loads of PhDs who are making minimum wage. It all comes down to opportunities and more importantly, how we seize those opportunities.

Nevertheless, I'd still strongly advise people to get the 4 year degree because of the way companies are becoming with respect to filtering based on degrees. Even if you have a great job you love today, you never know if or when it might end and it is best to be prepared. Now, as someone said earlier, I would not spend loads getting it, either. I'm even thinking of getting an MBA through WGU because that it the cheapest way for me to get one. At this point in my career/life, I can't take 2 years off and go full time to Harvard or another top school and the initials count more for anything else.

Take it from someone who has a BSEE and very nearly completed his MSEE -- if you finish up a 4 year degree just to have it on your resume, pick something easy to major in.

I hear what you're saying but as someone who has presales and post sales experience architecting and implementing VMware products, Cisco UCS, and EMC storage I'd rather just continue to focus on building my experience and certifications rather than waste time pursuing a Bachelor's degree.

If I let my tech skills go out of the mainstream and they're no longer valuable, then, yes, a Bachelor's degree might be worth it.

 

[NeoV]

child - there is a ceiling to how far you can go (for the most part, like anything else it's not going to apply 100% of the time) - but I'm in your field as well - and trust me - if you want to be the head of an IT department, or a CIO - good luck without at least a 4 year degree.

 

[child of wonder]

child - there is a ceiling to how far you can go (for the most part, like anything else it's not going to apply 100% of the time) - but I'm in your field as well - and trust me - if you want to be the head of an IT department, or a CIO - good luck without at least a 4 year degree.

No interest in that whatsoever. I'm a consultant working for a VAR and want to remain in the consulting field, perhaps work for a vendor someday if the right opportunity comes along.

 

[purbeast0]

all i know is that w/out going to school for CS there is no way in hell i would ever have learned to program the way i do now. when i graduated school i was still a total noob at programming, and i probably learned a lot more after i graduated, but it set a good groundwork for me.

i almost dropped out after my first year because college was so much harder than highschool. i got through highschool with so little effort and had over a 4.0 w/AP and honors classes. college was a huge wakeup call because you had to do A LOT of work compared.

i'm glad i buckled down though. additionally, the school i went to (UMD) looks really good on a resume (at least around here, it was #10 in the country for CS when i graduated) and it's come up quite a bit in my interviews and stuff.

that said, while recently job hunting, i've definitely seen listings that say like "BS in comp sci + 5 years, or 4 years experience can substitute for the degree" or similar listings.

 

[rchiu]

I hear what you're saying but as someone who has presales and post sales experience architecting and implementing VMware products, Cisco UCS, and EMC storage I'd rather just continue to focus on building my experience and certifications rather than waste time pursuing a Bachelor's degree.

If I let my tech skills go out of the mainstream and they're no longer valuable, then, yes, a Bachelor's degree might be worth it.

Some of the stuff you do are designed for larger enterprises, I am not sure how you got your foot in the door in the past, but now, it would be tough for someone to get those type of experience unless you work for bigger companies, and bigger companies usually requires some kind of degree.

Small/Medium enterprise on the other hand are not too strict with degrees. But you will probably deal with technologies with smaller scales, and your pay may not be as good.

 

[child of wonder]

Some of the stuff you do are designed for larger enterprises, I am not sure how you got your foot in the door in the past, but now, it would be tough for someone to get those type of experience unless you work for bigger companies, and bigger companies usually requires some kind of degree.

Small/Medium enterprise on the other hand are not too strict with degrees. But you will probably deal with technologies with smaller scales, and your pay may not be as good.

I'm definitely the exception rather than the norm. In my case, pursuing a Bachelor's wouldn't be worth the time or money.

 

[Cheesetogo]

you're doing it wrong.

+1

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I'm definitely the exception rather than the norm. In my case, pursuing a Bachelor's wouldn't be worth the time or money.

It will be if you were to lose your job. If your employer offers tuition reimbursement, I'd strongly recommend knocking a BS/BA degree out through someone like WGU.

 

[highland145]

Devils advocate...part of it has to do with federal labor laws, to qualify for an exempt status a position has to meet their guidelines, requiring a 4 year degree is an easy one to do

I remember we had a discussion about that a few weeks ago. Still B.S. for the company.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Anybody else notice this is from the Christian Science magazine?

 

[unokitty]

Anybody else notice this is from the Christian Science magazine?

I posted the link to the Christian Science Monitor.

Can you elaborate on the point that you are trying to make?

Uno