Backblaze and Seagate

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Nec_V20

Senior member
May 7, 2013
404
0
0
@ Nec_V20

I'm wondering why you're mentioning RAID when criticising Blackblaze; do you realise that when multiple drives are run in a RAID configuration, the drives themselves don't work any differently, in any scenario it's the storage controller's job to tell the drive what to store.

I'm also wondering why you're saying that the person responsible is "criminally irresponsible" for buying such drives. The acronym "RAID" originally stood for:

Redundant Array of Inexpensive (or 'Independent') Disks

The point of RAID in the vast majority of cases is in the first letter: Redundancy. Drive failures are to be expected, so a competent sysadmin plans for it with as much budget as they can feasibly throw at it.

Your impression that RAID came about purely because businesses were running out of space is simply inaccurate. Using RAID for that reason makes very little sense as one can simply connect up another HDD to a computer, whereas you would need to reinitialise RAID0 every single time you add another disk "for more space"... what's the point? RAID0 (aside from obvious reliability concerns) makes things unnecessarily complicated if your only goal is to increase data storage capacity. The only valid reason to use RAID0 is to increase performance (with a large number of "ifs" and "buts"). Yet you then go on to talk about mirroring which does not increase the data storage capacity! 2x 250GB HDDs in RAID1 configuration = 250GB total capacity (ignoring GB/GiB).

If there were disks out there considered to be so reliable that redundancy isn't a cost-effective priority, then a lot of sysadmins would invest that money elsewhere. If say instead processors were deemed 'not particularly reliable', then server boards would be designed to allow redundancy in that department instead.

If a sysadmin is finding that a particular model of drive is failing a lot more often than others, the obvious thing to do is not to use that model any more. Blackblaze apparently did this and reported their findings, and for some reason you have a problem with this.

The only (on topic) reason why I might be inclined to question a sysadmin's competence when picking drives for such a scenario as Blackblaze's (as I understand it) would be if the person had been picking drives that the manufacturer had clearly marked as something like, "this drive is not designed to withstand stress caused by running 24x7, running it in such an environment will void the warranty and cause the drive to fail prematurely", which is a warning I'm not sure I've seen before on a HDD, possibly because (at least in my experience), HDDs tend to be more reliable if they're not being spun up and down on a regular basis.
"@ Nec_V20"

That was a bit passive aggressive.

Obviously you do not have a clue what RAID is. Does "Scuzzy" mean anything to you? "Inexpensive" is a relative term. It's like back in the day "RANTS" was the nickname for WinNT Wolfpack (Redundant Array of NT Servers).

Scuzzy did supply a solution for multiple drives with redundency - Wolfpack never did until Microsoft adopted Active Directory from Exchange 5.5.

In any kind of RAID all drives are accessed simultaneously. In a ten or twenty drive RAID scenario you do not have 9 or 19 drives switched off whilst one drive is being accessed.

Which planet do you live on?

There is a difference between 24/7 available and 24/7 accessible.

One is powered on, but asleep and the other is powered on and spun up.

Spun up means wear on the mechanical components.

Which part of that do you not understand and which part of moron do you not understand me considering you?
 

Nec_V20

Senior member
May 7, 2013
404
0
0
I find it interesting how some want to disregard Backblaze's findings due to their beyond the specs use of the drives. Aren't extreme tests and benchmarks what geeks pay the most attention to when hardware tech sites do their reviews? This is the same community which prizes overclocking right?

You'd think they would rejoice such test results were made public of a real world case involving a huge amount of drives, but nope, it's the opposite reaction from people like Nec_V20 who seems enraged about it for some reason. If you're going to rail against Backblaze, why not take aim at every tech site including Anandtech who uses results from extreme, out of spec testing?

I am not enraged. I am not married to Seagate.

Extreme out of spec testing is there to show the limitations of the hardware. This however sheds no light whatsoever on the hardware in question if it is used below that extreme testing.

Everyone knows the 4770K is rubbish and that the 4790K has better thermals.

REALLY?

I delidded my 4770K, got rid of the gunk on the die AND got rid of the black gunk they had the lid glued to and when I put a thin layer of TIM on my 4770K and made sure that the lid was attached to it without pressure (put some paper under the lid so that the pressure of the CPU Cooler would not hurt the processor) my temperatures were and are at 4790K now at the same "overclocks".

Backblaze trashed their Seagate drives as knowingly as Intel trashed their 4770K.

It's a win-win for Backblaze - even if they don't get warranty replacements (and you can bet they got warranty replacements) they can write it off against tax.

Wouldn't surprise me if they got warranty replacements and still wrote the drives off against tax - thus technically committing fraud.
 

eton975

Senior member
Jun 2, 2014
283
8
81
I am not enraged. I am not married to Seagate.

Extreme out of spec testing is there to show the limitations of the hardware. This however sheds no light whatsoever on the hardware in question if it is used below that extreme testing.

-snip-

Backblaze trashed their Seagate drives as knowingly as Intel trashed their 4770K.

It's a win-win for Backblaze - even if they don't get warranty replacements (and you can bet they got warranty replacements) they can write it off against tax.

Wouldn't surprise me if they got warranty replacements and still wrote the drives off against tax - thus technically committing fraud.
Backblaze conspiracy theory? Woooooow.......
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,629
11,349
136
- edit - after writing a response to Nec_v20, I realised that he had been banned.
 
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