Backlash grows in US over foreign worker visas

[Zorba]

So the fundamental issue is that you think its less likely to happen under an American worker because they are usually more extroverted and will speak up more often. I cant argue for or against that, because I simply don't know if that is wrong or right. It still seems like the main issue is the management that does not hire the correct people though. I think time/money would be better spent on trying to get the right people into the correct positions, vs making the assumption that an American worker will speak up.

There are many Americans that will never stand up and fight for what is right, but I have meet very few people on H1Bs that will and generally they are much less confrontational than even the easy going Americans. One big reason is they are afraid if they get fired, they are going to get deported.

Now I've worked with many green card holders and as far as I am concerned they are basically the same as American workers, once the fear of deportment is gone and no longer being virtually shackled to one company.

At the end of the, unless there are truly ZERO Americans able to fill your position, I don't think someone should be brought in. If you just can't find an American that will do the job at half the going rate and work 70 hours a week, sucks to be you.

 

[Moonbeam]

Is that what today's Democrats call unions in private while not publicly soliciting their vote,

these same democrats are more than happy to solicit the vote of illegal supporters and recent foreigners because they don't have to work for it as hard as they once did for the unions and the middle class,

who back in the day help make this country the great economic superpower it once was while looking out for the worker at the same time.

Maybe the egotistical white collar force that sees themselves as too valuable to bother with unions should form them and lobby for job protection. One can fuck ones self by being propagandized to hate ones best options.

 

[Zorba]

Maybe the egotistical white collar force that sees themselves as too valuable to bother with unions should form them and lobby for job protection. One can fuck ones self by being propagandized to hate ones best options.

My site just had an engineering union meeting this afternoon, I'm interested to see where it goes.

 

[nixium]

I'm on a H1B visa. Nice to see what you guys think of us. Especially considering many people were talking about how I was a "model" immigrant just a couple of threads ago. Thanks for the welcome, guys.

There's two things going on here. First, there are smart, capable H1B workers that make plenty of $$, so the myth that all H1B workers are low paid automatons is BS. I'm not going to share my financial details on a forum so you'll have to take my word for it. I know plenty of people like me on H1Bs, and we make more than the "natives". Hell I've had US Citizen workers ask me how to bargain/negotiate for higher wages.

And secondly, I sock away 30-50% of my take home. And no I don't live in a box or drive a junk pile or eat ramen... I just am smart about what I buy, how I invest, the people I hang with, and so on. Stuff that everyone should be doing, but hey that new iPad!!!!!

The second thing is, yes, there is truth to the low paid automatons part. There are loopholes that are being exploited, but it's not the H1B workers fault... blame the government. The rules are archaic and there is no enforcement.

As I see it, there's two types of people in this thread.. xenophobes and those who are genuinely concerned about fraud and abuse in this program. To the xenophobes, I have nothing more to discuss, so you can ignore me (like the so called "Engineer" did to someone a few posts above). If you're the other type, then you need to ask yourself some questions. If you're open to immigration, then you should be supporting programs that bring in skilled talent from everywhere. So instead of ending the H1B program, you should instead focus on reforming it and make the green card process quicker so that the arbitrages that the visa produces are minimized. Currently, citizens of China and India wait for 10+ years to get a green card, during which time there's plenty of chances for the type of abuse you see about.

But I suppose it's easier to just say "end the program!!!!!!" and think of people with complex and interesting backstories as visa abbreviations and be done with it. Meh. I've learned and made enough to be successful anywhere in the world. If you guys end it, no big loss to me. I heard Canada is hiring... just have to avoid people like "Northern Lawn".

 

[Zaap]

Around here there is/was defiantly a shortage of workers.
Companies including McDonalds etc kept raising the wages they offered and still were not getting any bites.

That's not a worker shortage... that's called an "ideal job market."

Anyone who wanted to work could do so and make decent money

Exactly. And that's called "the result of an ideal job market."

 

[Zebo]

I'm on a H1B visa. Nice to see what you guys think of us. Especially considering many people were talking about how I was a "model" immigrant just a couple of threads ago. Thanks for the welcome, guys.

There's two things going on here. First, there are smart, capable H1B workers that make plenty of $$, so the myth that all H1B workers are low paid automatons is BS. I'm not going to share my financial details on a forum so you'll have to take my word for it. I know plenty of people like me on H1Bs, and we make more than the "natives". Hell I've had US Citizen workers ask me how to bargain/negotiate for higher wages.

And secondly, I sock away 30-50% of my take home. And no I don't live in a box or drive a junk pile or eat ramen... I just am smart about what I buy, how I invest, the people I hang with, and so on. Stuff that everyone should be doing, but hey that new iPad!!!!!

The second thing is, yes, there is truth to the low paid automatons part. There are loopholes that are being exploited, but it's not the H1B workers fault... blame the government. The rules are archaic and there is no enforcement.

As I see it, there's two types of people in this thread.. xenophobes and those who are genuinely concerned about fraud and abuse in this program. To the xenophobes, I have nothing more to discuss, so you can ignore me (like the so called "Engineer" did to someone a few posts above). If you're the other type, then you need to ask yourself some questions. If you're open to immigration, then you should be supporting programs that bring in skilled talent from everywhere. So instead of ending the H1B program, you should instead focus on reforming it and make the green card process quicker so that the arbitrages that the visa produces are minimized. Currently, citizens of China and India wait for 10+ years to get a green card, during which time there's plenty of chances for the type of abuse you see about.

But I suppose it's easier to just say "end the program!!!!!!" and think of people with complex and interesting backstories as visa abbreviations and be done with it. Meh. I've learned and made enough to be successful anywhere in the world. If you guys end it, no big loss to me. I heard Canada is hiring... just have to avoid people like "Northern Lawn".

Engineer is not a xenophobe. He just wants best consideration for Americans first and foremost like anyone in their own country wants what's best for their countrymen and women. Other than that I like your post and anyone reading can see why they hire foreigners.

 

[Mani]

I am an Aerospace/Mechanical Engineer, not IT. I've had several issues with people not standing up and fighting for what they know is right. Happens with Americans too, but it is much more prevalent with people on H1Bs for reasons already stated.

Maybe at your company you have no issue with releasing a bad product because someone refused to speak up

If you had any idea which company it is that I work for, you'd laugh at this. Secondly, your industry has thousands of H1Bs and so far, no catastrophic incidents from "people not speaking up". So either every single one of these people were not in positions of influence on product design, or your assertion is a broad brush with little merit. I'm going with the latter.

Businesses like H1Bs, because they can pay the person less

Once again, this is flat out incorrect. Hiring American workers is in 90+% of cases cheaper than sponsoring an H1B candidate with a comparable skillset. Ask the folks who do the hiring in your company if you don't believe that.

 

[realibrad]

There are many Americans that will never stand up and fight for what is right, but I have meet very few people on H1Bs that will and generally they are much less confrontational than even the easy going Americans. One big reason is they are afraid if they get fired, they are going to get deported.

Now I've worked with many green card holders and as far as I am concerned they are basically the same as American workers, once the fear of deportment is gone and no longer being virtually shackled to one company.

At the end of the, unless there are truly ZERO Americans able to fill your position, I don't think someone should be brought in. If you just can't find an American that will do the job at half the going rate and work 70 hours a week, sucks to be you.

It still seems like you would get bigger returns working on the culture of the company, vs not hiring foreign workers. Depending on the right people to speak up seems like a very risky thing. I would think there is a way to incentivize all workers to speak up.

To your point of the foreign worker undercutting the American worker, I still think there are ways to reduce the cost of the labor, and still raise or keep flat the American workers income in real terms.

We have to start stripping out costs for college that are not necessary for the field. Cutting out classes that don't apply to your field is about half the cost of college right there. Cut the payments people have to make on loans, and the worker can get their pay reduced by that amount, and their real income is unchanged. That would make the American worker cheaper but not hurt them in any real way.

 

[soulcougher73]

Of course it's about one thing: the money.

And your blame should be directed solely at the companies who, for decades, have driven down real wages, cut costs at every corner, cut benefits, and more, all because they are beholden to stockholders and directors who want blockbuster quarterly reports over long-term sustainable growth and profit sharing.

Wall Street is responsible for the destruction of the middle class. Instead of investing in well being of their own employees, companies are directing that wealth to stockholder # 23468.

This. Ive been saying for years in here that the stock market is the real enemy. It is a mostly useless evil thing that inspires greed at all costs.

 

[Mani]

No such thing as an indispensable person, period. Any company of more than a ~15 people could survive if any one person left, most smaller than that could too.

Ok, spare me the semantics. Go with "valuable" then if that works for you.

Decisions to outsource or hire H1Bs at most large companies are done at such a high level and removed from the actual workers, it doesn't matter how good an individual is, everyone in the group gets it.

This is also incorrect with respect to H1Bs. The hiring manager at most companies is the decisionmaker on the candidate. Said hiring manager may be given the latitude to hire an H1B, but it's not like the VP of an org will go out and say "I don't care if they suck, go out and hire 50 H1Bs this quarter". This thinking is again driven by the fallacy that H1Bs are somehow cheaper.

 

[Mani]

Exactly what more people need to do. Basically you're not a National Pity Party Partcipant. Of course, few want to hear this... when you're the most special people in the world, what could you possibly have to do to make yourself more valuable?

Issues of companies seeking cheap labor are real, but just as real are too many people thinking they are gods gift to business just for existing and that a great job is a birthright just for existing so they don't have to ever compete with the rest of the world.

The big irony... the later situation FEEDS the first.

Yep. Incidentally, it's never the really successful people at companies that bitch and complain about H1Bs. It's usually the mediocre ones that are threatened by them that do. Being mediocre however somehow doesn't detract from their sense of entitlement though.

 

[Mani]

I'm on a H1B visa. Nice to see what you guys think of us. Especially considering many people were talking about how I was a "model" immigrant just a couple of threads ago. Thanks for the welcome, guys.

There's two things going on here. First, there are smart, capable H1B workers that make plenty of $$, so the myth that all H1B workers are low paid automatons is BS. I'm not going to share my financial details on a forum so you'll have to take my word for it. I know plenty of people like me on H1Bs, and we make more than the "natives". Hell I've had US Citizen workers ask me how to bargain/negotiate for higher wages.

And secondly, I sock away 30-50% of my take home. And no I don't live in a box or drive a junk pile or eat ramen... I just am smart about what I buy, how I invest, the people I hang with, and so on. Stuff that everyone should be doing, but hey that new iPad!!!!!

The second thing is, yes, there is truth to the low paid automatons part. There are loopholes that are being exploited, but it's not the H1B workers fault... blame the government. The rules are archaic and there is no enforcement.

As I see it, there's two types of people in this thread.. xenophobes and those who are genuinely concerned about fraud and abuse in this program. To the xenophobes, I have nothing more to discuss, so you can ignore me (like the so called "Engineer" did to someone a few posts above). If you're the other type, then you need to ask yourself some questions. If you're open to immigration, then you should be supporting programs that bring in skilled talent from everywhere. So instead of ending the H1B program, you should instead focus on reforming it and make the green card process quicker so that the arbitrages that the visa produces are minimized. Currently, citizens of China and India wait for 10+ years to get a green card, during which time there's plenty of chances for the type of abuse you see about.

But I suppose it's easier to just say "end the program!!!!!!" and think of people with complex and interesting backstories as visa abbreviations and be done with it. Meh. I've learned and made enough to be successful anywhere in the world. If you guys end it, no big loss to me. I heard Canada is hiring... just have to avoid people like "Northern Lawn".

Now don't go injecting facts into this thread. You might threaten peoples' self-affirming stereotypes and generalizations, at which point they'll put you on ignore.

 

[Zorba]

If you had any idea which company it is that I work for, you'd laugh at this. Secondly, your industry has thousands of H1Bs and so far, no catastrophic incidents from "people not speaking up". So either every single one of these people were not in positions of influence on product design, or your assertion is a broad brush with little merit. I'm going with the latter.

Actually, there have been many accidents due to people not willing to speak up. A large percentage of aviation accidents occur because someone didn't take a strong enough stand. This goes for engineers, mechanics and pilots. My airline was also fined millions of dollars multiple times because people wouldn't fight back. When I worked engine design, there was a $50 million dollar cost to the program because someone in my group knew there was a problem with the CFD and "made it work" instead of getting it fixed.

If you had ever read an engineering ethics book, you would at least know the Challenger happened because (american) engineers refused to stand up against management.

Once again, this is flat out incorrect. Hiring American workers is in 90+% of cases cheaper than sponsoring an H1B candidate with a comparable skillset. Ask the folks who do the hiring in your company if you don't believe that.

I know how much my coworkers on H1Bs made at both companies I've worked for that used them, and it was far below industry average. You got any links to data showing that the five year burden on an H1B is higher than a US person? Also an American can flip the company the bird if they are mistreated, which is much harder for someone on a visa.

Really, I wasn't originally trying to paint all H1Bs with a broad brush, but that is what happens when you argue on internet forums. The people on visas I've worked with have generally been less inclined to push back and fight for what they know is right. So if a large percentage of your engineers are on visas, you could end up in a situation where the engineers will not stop something stupid from happening and in certain worlds, like airline engineering, engineers are called upon almost daily to stop something stupid from happening. I've seen the personalities of individuals change over night as soon as they get their green card too.

But like nixium said, my issue is with the visa program and the abuses made via it. I don't think people should be shackled to one company or face deportation if they loose their job. If the person is good enough to displace Americas, just get them a green card and let the companies compete for them just like anyone else. The way the program is setup now, it is just asking for massive abuses.

 

[Zorba]

Ok, spare me the semantics. Go with "valuable" then if that works for you.

Big difference between the two words.

This is also incorrect with respect to H1Bs. The hiring manager at most companies is the decisionmaker on the candidate. Said hiring manager may be given the latitude to hire an H1B, but it's not like the VP of an org will go out and say "I don't care if they suck, go out and hire 50 H1Bs this quarter". This thinking is again driven by the fallacy that H1Bs are somehow cheaper.

It depends on the company. My last company flat out banned hiring H1Bs into engineering. Which I had issue with a few times because I interviewed some great candidates coming out of school who needed sponsorship, but I was told no way no how. Quotas and direction come down from above for all kinds of stupid things. My current company will only hire level 1 engineers, even if you are replacing a level 5, you can only hire a 1. My mom's company has a target number of physical therapist to bring in on visas every year, one year she got dinged on her performance review for missing her quota.

I love how you all thinks every company is just like your company, and your company never mistreats anyone.

Yep. Incidentally, it's never the really successful people at companies that bitch and complain about H1Bs. It's usually the mediocre ones that are threatened by them that do. Being mediocre however somehow doesn't detract from their sense of entitlement though.

I know a lot of successful people that bitch the loudest. That is one reason why good people job hop so much, because it is easiest way to get raises and promotions, since big companies try work averages and be "fair" across the board.

 

[Zorba]

It still seems like you would get bigger returns working on the culture of the company, vs not hiring foreign workers. Depending on the right people to speak up seems like a very risky thing. I would think there is a way to incentivize all workers to speak up.

To your point of the foreign worker undercutting the American worker, I still think there are ways to reduce the cost of the labor, and still raise or keep flat the American workers income in real terms.

We have to start stripping out costs for college that are not necessary for the field. Cutting out classes that don't apply to your field is about half the cost of college right there. Cut the payments people have to make on loans, and the worker can get their pay reduced by that amount, and their real income is unchanged. That would make the American worker cheaper but not hurt them in any real way.

Go get your engineering degree, get an engineering job, and become a PE, then let me know if you still realistic think everything could and should be 100% back checked all the time in such a way no one ever needs to speak up. Even if you have 10 engineers who have thoroughly checked everything, at least one of them has to be willing to speak up, reference the Challenger. In fact the engineers who were afraid to rock the boat basically over ruled the one who was willing to stand up against the lunch.

BTW: A PE can stamp plans with no back check at all, by law. So if you get a PE that can be pushed around by a contractor or customer, you end up with very bad events such as this, although to be far this was also a lack of the PE back checking his own people but they allowed themselves to be pressured to do something dumb by the contractor.

In the aerospace world a DER can sign off things with no back check as well, and I've seen some really stupid stuff signed off by a DER who was pressured by their company.

 

[realibrad]

Go get your engineering degree, get an engineering job, and become a PE, then let me know if you still realistic think everything could and should be 100% back checked all the time in such a way no one ever needs to speak up. Even if you have 10 engineers who have thoroughly checked everything, at least one of them has to be willing to speak up, reference the Challenger. In fact the engineers who were afraid to rock the boat basically over ruled the one who was willing to stand up against the lunch.

BTW: A PE can stamp plans with no back check at all, by law. So if you get a PE that can be pushed around by a contractor or customer, you end up with very bad events such as this, although to be far this was also a lack of the PE back checking his own people but they allowed themselves to be pressured to do something dumb by the contractor.

In the aerospace world a DER can sign off things with no back check as well, and I've seen some really stupid stuff signed off by a DER who was pressured by their company.

So then you want to hire diversity in hopes of picking someone who will speak up. I'm just not sure that excludes foreign workers or even promotes American workers over anyone else. It still seems more like a hiring issue and that shifts it mainly to the companies issue, and not a federal immigration issue.

 

[Jeff7]

This. Ive been saying for years in here that the stock market is the real enemy. It is a mostly useless evil thing that inspires greed at all costs.

Or at least the way it stands right now. Executives can be compensated with a $1/year salary followed with mountains of stock. Their incentive is not to increase the long-term value and profitability of the company. Their incentive is to increase the perceived value of the stock, nothing more. Accounting tricks start showing up all over the place in order to make a company appear more valuable, like shuffling around pension money, even if it's just something that'll work short term. Business decisions are made with the next few years in mind, not the next 30 years, so that the next few financial quarters will look good. All these people really need to do is be there long enough to secure a decent stock payout and maybe even a pension, and the company can burn to the ground for all they care.



In reference to what Nixium said, that it can take a very long time for someone here on an H1B visa to get a green card, what's the reason that it takes so much time?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

In reference to what Nixium said, that it can take a very long time for someone here on an H1B visa to get a green card, what's the reason that it takes so much time?

In 2008/2009, it took 18 months to get green cards/entry visas for my wife and my step-daughter. 10 months of which was for FBI background checks.

 

[Mani]

Big difference between the two words.

Not in this context. You've chosen the definition of indispensable to be that matching the stereotype of an engineer that has created a need which only they can fulfill. It can also simply mean someone who contributes such value to a company that they are considered to be necessary.

It depends on the company. My last company flat out banned hiring H1Bs into engineering. Which I had issue with a few times because I interviewed some great candidates coming out of school who needed sponsorship, but I was told no way no how. Quotas and direction come down from above for all kinds of stupid things. My current company will only hire level 1 engineers, even if you are replacing a level 5, you can only hire a 1. My mom's company has a target number of physical therapist to bring in on visas every year, one year she got dinged on her performance review for missing her quota.

Of course it depends on the company. And did you bother to think about why your company banned the hire of H1Bs? Hint- it wasn't because they are cheaper. And your mom's company of sweatshop H1Bs isn't exactly a typical case.

I love how you all thinks every company is just like your company, and your company never mistreats anyone.

And it's funny that you use an extreme example to try to make a point about H1Bs and then talk about how myopic people can be when assessing the landscape.

 

[Mani]

Actually, there have been many accidents due to people not willing to speak up. A large percentage of aviation accidents occur because someone didn't take a strong enough stand. This goes for engineers, mechanics and pilots. My airline was also fined millions of dollars multiple times because people wouldn't fight back. When I worked engine design, there was a $50 million dollar cost to the program because someone in my group knew there was a problem with the CFD and "made it work" instead of getting it fixed.

If you had ever read an engineering ethics book, you would at least know the Challenger happened because (american) engineers refused to stand up against management.

So what you've got is a specious example in your company and an example from 27 years ago, neither of which is tied to H1Bs. Got it.

I know how much my coworkers on H1Bs made at both companies I've worked for that used them, and it was far below industry average. You got any links to data showing that the five year burden on an H1B is higher than a US person? Also an American can flip the company the bird if they are mistreated, which is much harder for someone on a visa.

I'm not going to research 5-year studies so that I can prove the obvious to you. There is plenty of data out there showing that H1Bs are paid comparably to US counterparts - try the GAO or Magnus Lofstrom for starters. There's also the fact that an H1B by law requires an employer to pay H-1B visa holders the higher of the prevailing or actual wage paid to similarly employed U.S. workers in the same area, something the DoL tracks. And then add the actual cost of sponsorship to that.

 

[HumblePie]

I'm on a H1B visa. Nice to see what you guys think of us. Especially considering many people were talking about how I was a "model" immigrant just a couple of threads ago. Thanks for the welcome, guys.

There's two things going on here. First, there are smart, capable H1B workers that make plenty of $$, so the myth that all H1B workers are low paid automatons is BS. I'm not going to share my financial details on a forum so you'll have to take my word for it. I know plenty of people like me on H1Bs, and we make more than the "natives". Hell I've had US Citizen workers ask me how to bargain/negotiate for higher wages.

And secondly, I sock away 30-50% of my take home. And no I don't live in a box or drive a junk pile or eat ramen... I just am smart about what I buy, how I invest, the people I hang with, and so on. Stuff that everyone should be doing, but hey that new iPad!!!!!

The second thing is, yes, there is truth to the low paid automatons part. There are loopholes that are being exploited, but it's not the H1B workers fault... blame the government. The rules are archaic and there is no enforcement.

As I see it, there's two types of people in this thread.. xenophobes and those who are genuinely concerned about fraud and abuse in this program. To the xenophobes, I have nothing more to discuss, so you can ignore me (like the so called "Engineer" did to someone a few posts above). If you're the other type, then you need to ask yourself some questions. If you're open to immigration, then you should be supporting programs that bring in skilled talent from everywhere. So instead of ending the H1B program, you should instead focus on reforming it and make the green card process quicker so that the arbitrages that the visa produces are minimized. Currently, citizens of China and India wait for 10+ years to get a green card, during which time there's plenty of chances for the type of abuse you see about.

But I suppose it's easier to just say "end the program!!!!!!" and think of people with complex and interesting backstories as visa abbreviations and be done with it. Meh. I've learned and made enough to be successful anywhere in the world. If you guys end it, no big loss to me. I heard Canada is hiring... just have to avoid people like "Northern Lawn".

As I pointed out with my thread, there are the gems.

But think of any group of humans when you apply statistics. It's a bell curve usually. As George Carlin says, in any group of people half by definition are below average.

Joking aside, I know companies that go out of their way to fulfill certain positions with what I call H1B1 grunt workers. That is not the fault of the person, but the company hiring and the laws that allow them to do it. Again, I have nothing against anyone, smart, dumb, or average trying to get a job anywhere to provide a living for themselves and those they love. If everyone did that the world would be a better place. If I was in a situation that was a bad economic situation for myself, I'd be doing whatever I could do to get out of that. If that was working as a grunt, because I wasn't too bright, overseas for a period of time I'd do it. Especially if the situation, while not ideal, is better than what I was coming from.

The root of what I find as a problem is the different side of the same coin as off-shoring American companies. I understand that companies want profit, and most will seek out to maximize any profit they can within the letter of the law. Even if they have to "bend" the law a bit. Which is why companies spend billions every year lobbying for laws that make it easier to make even more than they spent in lobbying. The laws in America allow for American companies to maximize profits by off-shoring work where they can, or having H1B1 grunts do basically slave labor for them.

I am not disparaging those with an H1B1 at all. And certain none like yourself. As you demonstrate, not all H1B1's are for grunt IT workers. There are good and great reasons for the H1B1 program to bring very talented and smart individuals from overseas to fulfill a role that there isn't a readily available American equivalent. I said though previously that your circumstance is not the norm though.

 

[realibrad]

As I pointed out with my thread, there are the gems.

But think of any group of humans when you apply statistics. It's a bell curve usually. As George Carlin says, in any group of people half by definition are below average.

Joking aside, I know companies that go out of their way to fulfill certain positions with what I call H1B1 grunt workers. That is not the fault of the person, but the company hiring and the laws that allow them to do it. Again, I have nothing against anyone, smart, dumb, or average trying to get a job anywhere to provide a living for themselves and those they love. If everyone did that the world would be a better place. If I was in a situation that was a bad economic situation for myself, I'd be doing whatever I could do to get out of that. If that was working as a grunt, because I wasn't too bright, overseas for a period of time I'd do it. Especially if the situation, while not ideal, is better than what I was coming from.

The root of what I find as a problem is the different side of the same coin as off-shoring American companies. I understand that companies want profit, and most will seek out to maximize any profit they can within the letter of the law. Even if they have to "bend" the law a bit. Which is why companies spend billions every year lobbying for laws that make it easier to make even more than they spent in lobbying. The laws in America allow for American companies to maximize profits by off-shoring work where they can, or having H1B1 grunts do basically slave labor for them.

I am not disparaging those with an H1B1 at all. And certain none like yourself. As you demonstrate, not all H1B1's are for grunt IT workers. There are good and great reasons for the H1B1 program to bring very talented and smart individuals from overseas to fulfill a role that there isn't a readily available American equivalent. I said though previously that your circumstance is not the norm though.

Saw Slave Labor and forgot everyone else you said.

 

[HumblePie]

Saw Slave Labor and forgot everyone else you said.

How so? Have you not seen the conditions that some of these companies impose upon H1B1 immigrant workers?

 

[Zorba]

So then you want to hire diversity in hopes of picking someone who will speak up. I'm just not sure that excludes foreign workers or even promotes American workers over anyone else. It still seems more like a hiring issue and that shifts it mainly to the companies issue, and not a federal immigration issue.

I've tried to make it clear I am against the visa process, not foreigners in general. It is one thing to fight when you know you may lose you job, it is another when you know you may lose your job, be deported and may never get another opportunity. Same reason American and green card holding engineers generally don't put up with being screwed over for long, but H1Bs will.

 

[realibrad]

How so? Have you not seen the conditions that some of these companies impose upon H1B1 immigrant workers?

OMG you are totally right. I mean, these companies whip their workers, rape them, cull their population, take away all freedoms so its completely the same.

How did I ever think that the horrors of slavery were any different than how American companies treat foreign workers...