Backup hardware

[Zucarita9000]

We need to get a tape backup unit for our server to perform daily backups.
We have an HP ProLiant ML150 G2 server, and I have these two choices:

HP DAT 72 Internal SCSI or USB
HP DLT VS 80 Internal SCSI

I would think that the SCSI version should be faster than their USB counterparts, right?
The volume of data that I need to backup is in the order of 30-50GB (although I think it might reach 70GB over the next six months).

Of course, the DAT unit os cheaper than the DLT unit.

I need something easy to use, that'll make automatic full-system backups and fast enough so that someone can take the tapes outside of the office each day. (We have had some burglaries lately, and we need to get our data safe and as far as possible).

What should I do? Is DLT better than DAT?

 

[Agamar]

I wouldn't really suggest either of those solutions. Both of them would be near full at 50G (they say they will hold close to 80, but I have never seen one get a perfect 2:1 compression). You would be better off going with something like the SDLT 220 (110/220G) Remember, you want your backup solution to be very reliable and not to change (say you have a year's worth of tapes offsite, but you have to change your tape backup device every year because you are buying 'just enough' to get buy, you will have a hell of a time recovering in case of a disaster)

 

[bob4432]

what about a couple of 1394 connected external hdds and acronis true image? i would say it would only take ~1-2hrs this way at most.

 

[Zepper]

disk images are good for Q&D recovery, but are not a true backup solution as everything in an image file past an error can be lost. Use a file by file backup program like Dantz Retrospect and the external HDs as mentioned above. Get a couple of drives and rotate them - via a mobile rack in a 5.25" external Firewire housing.

.bh.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Zepper
disk images are good for Q&D recovery, but are not a true backup solution as everything in an image file past an error can be lost. Use a file by file backup program like Dantz Retrospect and the external HDs as mentioned above. Get a couple of drives and rotate them - via a mobile rack in a 5.25" external Firewire housing.

.bh.

Q&D? what does that mean?

 

[Slowlearner]

Quick and Dirty?

 

[Zepper]

Yup, Quick & Dirty. I thought I answered this last night - must be that Old-timer's syndrome...

.bh.

 

[Zucarita9000]

Sou you're suggesting that external hdds are better than tape? I thought that hdd were more succeptible to damage that tapes.

Also, keep in mind that the media has to be phisically moved putside the office each time, and moving around a couple of hard drives will be risky. Someone might drop them and that's it. Backup tapes wouldn't be much of a problem.

 

[Zucarita9000]

Any ideas?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Agamar
I wouldn't really suggest either of those solutions. Both of them would be near full at 50G (they say they will hold close to 80, but I have never seen one get a perfect 2:1 compression). You would be better off going with something like the SDLT 220 (110/220G) Remember, you want your backup solution to be very reliable and not to change (say you have a year's worth of tapes offsite, but you have to change your tape backup device every year because you are buying 'just enough' to get buy, you will have a hell of a time recovering in case of a disaster)

Best suggestion so far.

You need to be able to rotate backups, not just use one set. Tapes may be cheaper than drives once you figure the cost of several / many sets, and they are certainly more durable if handled roughly in all the carrying off site and back.

 

[Oyeve]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: Agamar
I wouldn't really suggest either of those solutions. Both of them would be near full at 50G (they say they will hold close to 80, but I have never seen one get a perfect 2:1 compression). You would be better off going with something like the SDLT 220 (110/220G) Remember, you want your backup solution to be very reliable and not to change (say you have a year's worth of tapes offsite, but you have to change your tape backup device every year because you are buying 'just enough' to get buy, you will have a hell of a time recovering in case of a disaster)

Best suggestion so far.

You need to be able to rotate backups, not just use one set. Tapes may be cheaper than drives once you figure the cost of several / many sets, and they are certainly more durable if handled roughly in all the carrying off site and back.

Yup, SDLT. Best option. You can throw a tape off a buidling and still recover from it.

 

I love SDLT but i had 2 bad tape leads.. off new tapes.. they got stuck inside the drives.. had to RMA and exchange them...

 

[redhatlinux]

USB2 Hard-drives are pretty fast. You can also connect them to a wide variety of system to retrieve that all important file. I would look at a possible combination of both tape and disk. Obviously, you want to perform the server backup as quickly as possible. I recall. backing up to a large somewhat slower disk, but faster than tape and then performing a tape backup of that disk, the server can be online as soon as the disk backup is made.

 

[nweaver]

Tape>any HDD backup

I would get a DLT (possibly a changer, if you can afford it) and do daily rotations, with one weeks worth of tapes. You talk sizes, but are you wanting to do a FULL backup every night, or just an incremental? A full on weekends, with a nightly incremental, take inc tapes out every few days and have 3 full sets (on onsite, 2 stored offsite) should be ok, I would think.

 

[Zucarita9000]

Ok, so we finally decided on a backup solution and the external hard drive won. The price difference between a tape unit and a 250GB external hdd is huge.

I was thinking about getting two identical hdd, so that we can keep on in the office and another one off-site.

Is there any software that can make a backup file in two separte hard drives? Right now we're using the Windows built-in backup tool, wich creates a full system backup every day.

 

[rustyjeep]

You need to look at what you are trying to accomplish with your backups. Are you storing user's data and email, or simply backing up the configuration of your server. I seriously doubt that you will be able to restore suzy's lost excel spreadsheet from last tuesday if you only have one restore point (i.e. she deleted it a week ago, and the only backup you have was from last night).

I ran a remote office for about 5 years, and used a Sony TSL 9000 (like this one - http://cgi.ebay.com/INTERNAL-SONY-SDT-9...2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ) for the last 3, and it worked well. Not perfect, but it works. I would think you can pickup the drive for under $300, and about 50 tapes for another $100. The auto loader will hold 8 tapes (about 96 GB of data withougt compression).

You then need to setup a GFS rotation. This means that you keep the backup you make on the first of every month, and hold them for about 2 years. You keep about 4 weekly backups, and 5 daily ones. It seems like alot of tapes, but it has really saved my bacon in the past. You will get users asking for files restored, the legal dept. will ask to have joe's email file from last June to see if he emailed a competitor - absolutly tons of different requests.

Good luck,
Terry

 

[Zucarita9000]

Well, our setup is pretty simple. Each desktop backs up it's data to the server, so there is a backup directory for each user in the network. At the same time, Windows creates a full system backup (using the built-in software) every night.

We don't need an advance backup scheme, simply a quick and easy way to restore the system if the server gets corrupted (or stolen).

 

[Agamar]

Yep, go with SDLT. You will want to keep at least a month's worth of data, since those users will want something that they deleted one of these days. We currently keep a year's worth of tapes (1 set of full backups for each month). Comes in handy when somebody needs something they thought they didn't six months ago.

 

[alimoalem]

nothing's really cheaper than an external usb/firewire hard drive is there? i mean for backup purposes. SCSI drives are awesome but i doubt they're worth it if you're using it as a backup drive

 

[Zucarita9000]

Originally posted by: Agamar
Yep, go with SDLT. You will want to keep at least a month's worth of data, since those users will want something that they deleted one of these days. We currently keep a year's worth of tapes (1 set of full backups for each month). Comes in handy when somebody needs something they thought they didn't six months ago.

Well, important files are stored on the server, nothing critical is deleted.

Anyway, I need to know if there's any way I can create identical backup files on two separate hard drives, or if I should simply backup to one hdd, and the copy the contents to the other hdd with some other app.

What I want is to have two external hard drives with identical information in them.

 

[islandtechengineers]

Originally posted by: Zucarita9000

What I want is to have two external hard drives with identical information in them.

based on this comment, sound like you need mirroring between hd's that are internal and a nice server case that features multiple docking bays (in which 2 hd's are mirrored to each other / and are hot swappable).

at the end of your day, use the key with the bays to remove the 2 hd's, put em in an anti static heavy duty brief case and walk away with your data. Due to the hot swappable capabilities of the server, your main data drives are still in the server and it isn't powered down for the swap.

The next morning, remove the drives from the brief case (that you didn?t forget at home or mis-place the night before) and slip them right back into their server home (don?t forget to lock em into the bay).

If you think of it, you could have 10 500 gig hd?s for 5 days of protection?