Backup solutions

dirtyknight71

Junior Member
Apr 27, 2005
6
0
0
I have a small business and I need a backup solution for my system. We don't have a server but a workstation that stores all the data for the company's business software and quickbooks. I'm looking at getting some sort of backup because all we do now is write to a cd every night (automatically) though I'd like to have a better backup system. I was looking at zip drives but I don't think 750 mb is enough. So that really leaves me (I assume) tape drives and an external hard drive. What are the pro's and con's to having an external hd? Is it vulnerable to random instances like lightning and such? I don't want the tape backup because I don't want to have to change tapes. Any info you guys can give me will help me tremendously.

Thanks in advance
Dirtyknight
 

ohnnyj

Golden Member
Dec 17, 2004
1,239
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Hard drives are prone to failure so if that is your only line of defense I would not feel very comfortable. You may want to check eBay for a cheap tape backup that a company may be getting rid of as they are upgrading their equipment. We have had both Quantum and Sony drives here at work and they have peformed very well alongside Veritas BackupExec.
 

Rottie

Diamond Member
Feb 10, 2002
4,795
1
81
tape back up drive are very expenisve so is tape too. It is not very fast to back up or to restore it. Tape takes forever to find indivdual files you might look to restore it.
Network Drive is a good way to back up.
 

FlyingPenguin

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2000
1,793
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I do not recommend tape backups for small businesses. They are best used for large corporate lans with very large data backup requirements. Otherwise tape is not cost effective anymore.

I use DVD-RW backups for ALL my small business clients. That's almost 9Gb of data backup with compression (18Gb if you use dual layer DVDs) - comparable storage size to tape drives, far faster and far more reliable.

I recommend Stomp's Backup MyPC software. This is essentially the same software as Veritas used to sell as their backup app (and Veritas also wrote the backup app built into Windows), and Stomp bought it from them and improved it. Backup MyPC does NOT run on a server OS, but I always do my backups from a workstation anyway.

Unlike tape, you can archive CDs or DVDs so it's a no-brainer. I have my clients use re-writeable discs for Monday thru Thursday. On Fridays they grab a DVD+R blank from a 50 pack spindle and burn a permananet archive copy - write the date on it and file it away. THIS IS INVALUABLE. I can't tell you how often I've had a client realize they deleted an important file several weeks (or even months) later, and if you're only making backups with re-writables that you re-use every week, that file is lost forever. If you keep a weekly archive you can ALWAYS go back and find a lost file.

I setup Backup MyPC to run late in the evening every business day after everyone goes home. As long as someone puts a disc in the drive, the backup will happen automatically. I also use a small batch file and schedule it to run after the backup (using Windows Scheduler) to eject the disc and print the backup log summary so the not-so-bright office people have a confirmation that the backup actually happened (and hopefully they'll read the log summary to confirm that the date is correct and there were no errors).

Cost is inexpensive: DVD-RW Drive = $60 for a good Lite-On DVD+-R drive, Backup My PC is $60, and media is dirt cheap.

Some important guidelines I give to my clients:

- EVERYONE must close all applications at the end of the business day, or you will not be able to backup all your data. Backup apps can't backup a file that's in use.

- ALWAYS use data verification. This forces the backup app to compare the files on the backup to the originals after completing the backup. This assures you that you have a good backup.

- Don't blindly rely on your backup program. Check the backup log regularly (at least once a week) to make sure the backups are occuring. Also, AT LEAST once a month, you should restore some randomly selected files from a recent backup as a test to make sure you can recover data from your backups (MAKE SURE NOT TO OVERWRITE YOUR DATA WHEN YOU DO TEST RESTORES! Select a temporary folder as the destination for your restores.

- Keep any backups, and your inportant CDs (your applications, OS CDs, etc) in a FIRE SAFE (Walmart sells one for $30). EVERYTHING you may need to get a replacement computer up and running after a disaster should be in the fire safe. If the office burns down it doesn't do you much good if you have a backup of your data, but no copy of your backup software to restore that data, and no copy of whatever applications you need to install on a replacement computer.

- Keep DUPLICATE COPIES of ALL application installation CDs OFF SITE! Office gets robbed, you're screwed if everything is on-site.

- ALWAYS keep a recent data backup OFF SITE! I tell my clients to take the previous day's backup home each night. If the place gets robbed, and you lose everything, at least you have a 24 hour old data backup and (if you followed the previous recommendation) a copy of all your apps.

Disaster recovery is MUCH MORE than just making the occasional backup. Plan for the worst. I see the worst happen all the time.

My clients adore me when they follow my instructions and disaster strikes. I can usually get them up and running again with a loaner system in a few hours at worst.
 

montag451

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,587
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As Mr Penguin says, or RAID 1 or 5.

I run a small business and this is my mainstay, as well as the weekly [or so ;-)] backup onto dvd/cd - whatever
 

forrestroche

Senior member
Apr 25, 2005
529
7
81
Originally posted by: ohnnyj
Hard drives are prone to failure so if that is your only line of defense I would not feel very comfortable.


But he has said that he doesn't want tape. Why not a second internal hdd as a mirror? I am not sure why noone is suggesting raid 1. There must be a reason, just don't know what it is? Hdd's don't tend to fail simultaneously.

Forrest
 

forrestroche

Senior member
Apr 25, 2005
529
7
81
Originally posted by: FlyingPenguin
- ALWAYS keep a recent data backup OFF SITE! I tell my clients to take the previous day's backup home each night. If the place gets robbed, and you lose everything, at least you have a 24 hour old data backup and (if you followed the previous recommendation) a copy of all your apps.

Disaster recovery is MUCH MORE than just making the occasional backup. Plan for the worst. I see the worst happen all the time.

Ok, I should have read further. That makes good sense...
 

ohnnyj

Golden Member
Dec 17, 2004
1,239
0
0
I think it depends on how much needs to be backed up. We are a small business but we do not backup each individual machine, we simply backup the server where all our files reside. The workstations simply act as an interface to the servers that way a failed workstation does not affect the integrity of the data. Our servers have way too much data for DVDs, 9GB of data isn't all that much, even for a small business.

Originally posted by: Rottie
tape back up drive are very expenisve so is tape too. It is not very fast to back up or to restore it. Tape takes forever to find indivdual files you might look to restore it.
Network Drive is a good way to back up.

I will agree that tape isn't the cheapest option, but some of the newer technologies allow for faster retreval of data. Our Sony AIT-2 Turbo drive with MIC cartridges can get to the data in a matter of seconds.
 

dirtyknight71

Junior Member
Apr 27, 2005
6
0
0
All I will be backing up is what's on the server. Probably just a few folders where some shared docs are stored and the backup files that are created by the software the business uses and the quickbook backups.

I'm not worried about saving files that an employee might have accidentaly deleted. I just want protection in case of a hd failure or some freak accident.

Thanks again
 

dirtyknight71

Junior Member
Apr 27, 2005
6
0
0
Also, cost is not a variable, though cheaper is always better. I need something that is totally automatic and doesn't need someone to be there to check frequently. I'm also not worried about someone stealing it or the building burning down so it doesn't have to be off site. Hopefully that's all. I keep thinking of stuff after i post.
 

dirtyknight71

Junior Member
Apr 27, 2005
6
0
0
OK. Anyone know anything about this

CMS Products
80 GB Velocity Serial ATA Automatic Backup System

I found it at Dell. Would this work?
 

dclive

Elite Member
Oct 23, 2003
5,626
2
81
Originally posted by: FlyingPenguin
- EVERYONE must close all applications at the end of the business day, or you will not be able to backup all your data. Backup apps can't backup a file that's in use.

With a backup program that's compliant with Windows Server 2003's (or XP's) shadow copy tools, this is no longer necessary. Stick to XP/2003's NTBACKUP (back up to a file, save that file to a DVD if you like) and it will 'just work' - and will backup files in use.

Another good idea is to use Windows Server 2003's shadow copy to permit the client to recover 'previous versions' of their data - someone updates a spreadsheet, saves the data, and then doesn't like the change - or deletes data - they (emphasis - THEY) can roll back to the previous version, or one of many previous versions. Very handy. Not a backup solution - more to help clicky mousers, but very handy all the same.
 

dclive

Elite Member
Oct 23, 2003
5,626
2
81
Originally posted by: montag451
As Mr Penguin says, or RAID 1 or 5.

I run a small business and this is my mainstay, as well as the weekly [or so ;-)] backup onto dvd/cd - whatever

RAID1 or RAID5 isn't a backup method. It's a way of protecting against media failure - that's *IT*. It doesn't help with filesystem corruption, theft, or intentional (or not) deletion of files.
 

FlyingPenguin

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2000
1,793
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With a backup program that's compliant with Windows Server 2003's (or XP's) shadow copy tools, this is no longer necessary. Stick to XP/2003's NTBACKUP (back up to a file, save that file to a DVD if you like) and it will 'just work' - and will backup files in use.

Almost none of my small business customers are running an actual server OS. And the original poster here isn't either. Businesses with 3 or 4 workstations it's just not worth it usually.

I don't like NTBackup because it doesn't do data compression to a file.
 

dclive

Elite Member
Oct 23, 2003
5,626
2
81
Granted, but the need to close out of open files is no longer true - with Shadow Copy services, one can back up open files. If you don't like NTBackup, find a backup solution that uses shadow copy / open file agent / any other vendor's implementation of same, so that file state doesn't matter to the backup.
 

FlyingPenguin

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2000
1,793
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0
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you still need Shadow Copy implemented on Server 2003 in order to use it. If you don't have a server OS (as in the case of the poster) you don't have access to Shadow Copy Service?

Stomp's Backup MyPC supports Shadow Copy Services.
 

FlyingPenguin

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2000
1,793
0
0
Interesting. Thanks. I'll read up on it.

Only experience I've run into with it is that it doesn't work on network shares (unless you're using Server 2003 of course).

My backup software always warns be that shadow copy is not available when I backup network shares (most of my clients do their backups from a workstation and not the "server" itself). So I always ask them to make sure that they've exited all programs.

That would definately make doing backups from the "server" more attractive though. I'll have to experiment.

Thanks again.
 

dclive

Elite Member
Oct 23, 2003
5,626
2
81
Originally posted by: FlyingPenguin
Interesting. Thanks. I'll read up on it.

Only experience I've run into with it is that it doesn't work on network shares (unless you're using Server 2003 of course).

My backup software always warns be that shadow copy is not available when I backup network shares (most of my clients do their backups from a workstation and not the "server" itself). So I always ask them to make sure that they've exited all programs.

That would definately make doing backups from the "server" more attractive though. I'll have to experiment.

Thanks again.


All versions of NTBACKUP work flawlessly on network shares. However, no versions will back up the System State (or use shadow copy features) via the network - you must do that locally. In other words, to back up a 'farm' of a hundred servers:

1 must have a big, empty hard drive
All machines must back up their data + System State to that big, empty hard drive.
Then, that one machine will have all data for all machines, and can back up to tape or whathaveyou without incident.

Speaking of shadow copy via the network - the suggested method is to have every local machine back up itself via NTBACKUP. It works, it's supported, it's clean, it's established, and it's been used for a decade and a half now with very, very high reliability.

Other vendors have fuller-featured backup products - no doubt about that - but particularly for single-server or simple implementations (which it sounds like this is) I don't see a big reason to use other software.
 
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