Bad News for CRT users...

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: ZobarStyl
Yes, I can imagine a dual-screen CRT setup...I'm typing this right now on that exact style system...and yes, I have no desk space left between the 2 19" 's and they probably weigh in at, oh say, 60 pounds total. I won't move to LCD until the price is reasonable...my two 19" CRT's cost as much as one LCD equivalent (at the time)...now it's about 1.6-7 times more. I will tell you though, LAN's can be a complete pain.

CRT's actually weigh more than that. Most 19" CRTs weigh 45-50 lbs. Here's a midrange Viewsonic 19" CRT that weighs 48.5 lbs.


The industry is moving towards LCD's because they are much MUCH cheaper to manufacture. CRT's contain >20 lbs of lead, several pounds of glass and the electron guns required to create the image, as well as tons of power storage capacity (ie capacitors).

Regardless if you think LCD"s are better ot not, they are the future, so you'll have to get used to it. Personally, I'm glad the CRT is going the way of the ball-mouse. Ever since getting a Samsung 710T I can't stand CRT's anymore.

 

[carage]

Originally posted by: cryptonomicon
why would anyone discontinue CRTs? they have superior refresh rates and quality over LCD dont they? sure the average person is gonna pick the LCD, but as a gamer i would always take CRT for the performance... or is there some other kind of monitor i've been out of the loop on?

I heard there is an EU ban on all CRTs kicking in 2006 because CRTs contain some hazardous material.
Maybe that is why.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: carage

Originally posted by: cryptonomicon
why would anyone discontinue CRTs? they have superior refresh rates and quality over LCD dont they? sure the average person is gonna pick the LCD, but as a gamer i would always take CRT for the performance... or is there some other kind of monitor i've been out of the loop on?

I heard there is an EU ban on all CRTs kicking in 2006 because CRTs contain some hazardous material.
Maybe that is why.

Very good possibility. Remember there's 20+ pounds of lead in there that must be disposed of, capacitors, etc.

 

[Mem]

Don't be absurd, 100lbs? My 2141 weighs 70lbs by itself

Hehe....I know my 21" CRT weighs 70lbs,then I also have my 19" Samsung LCD and midi tower on my desk plus my speakers,DVD discs,external DVD drive etc..God knows how much all that weighs ,getting back to the NEC/Mit CRT news well that`s a real shame when it happens but no real surprise since LCDs are so popular now and getting cheaper,yes they can`t compare to CRT prices but do you remember years ago when even a 17" CRT was very expensive,how things have now changed.

I find LCDs are ok for gaming,if I had to be hyper critical the worst thing for me is scaling on lower resolutions,ghosting is not really a problem for me or the colours.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I thought flatrons are from L&G. It's a psuedo AG/SM design. Brightness of the AG without the grill lines.

You're absolutely correct. My mistake. LG does make Flatron (Flat Tension Mask) CRT. It's hybrid of Shadow Mask and Aperture Grill made by NEC/Mitsu and Panasonic.

ViewSonic makes PerfectFlat which is AG and based on Mitsu DiamondTron. I got PerfectFlat and Flatron mixed up.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
The industry is moving towards LCD's because they are much MUCH cheaper to manufacture. CRT's contain >20 lbs of lead, several pounds of glass and the electron guns required to create the image, as well as tons of power storage capacity (ie capacitors).

well, no, they're not. the problem is while a single lcd may be cheaper in raw materials, their failure rate is higher.. due to the way they are manufactured, a dead pixel requires replacing the entire board (i forget what the guy who repairs these things called them). this is likely the reason you see all the disclaimers stating they will only replace for "x" amount of dead pixels.

while the quality of manufacturing has improved and lowered the manufacturing cost somewhat, that's still the reason they are prices so much higher than a quality crt of the same size.

Regardless if you think LCD"s are better ot not, they are the future, so you'll have to get used to it. Personally, I'm glad the CRT is going the way of the ball-mouse. Ever since getting a Samsung 710T I can't stand CRT's anymore.

i just bought a new monitor, and looked hard at the lcd's. still ended up buying a crt - a samsung 997df, which i'm actually a lot happier with than i originally thought i would be. at any rate, after lots of comparing and research, i still felt the lcd's shortcomings (cost per inch of screen area, response time, limitation of resolution) didn't overcome their avantages, at least for me. i might have felt different if a 19" lcd would have supported more than 1280 res, and spending an extra $600 to be able to run 1600 native res just wasn't justified.

i'm sure in the future comprimises won't be required, but for me it the time just wasn't right yet.

 

[RealityTime]

this is absurd the 930sb and its 22" big bro are the best displays on the market. lcd or crt. period. what a shame they are discontinuing them.

 

[Nebor]

As I predicted last year, within 5 years you won't be able to buy a 19" or bigger CRT without BIG money, as the only existing ones will be made for professionals, by companies like Eizo.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
umm.. am i missing something here?

i didn't think crt's are being discontinued, rather just aperture grille monitors? this would make sense, as not only are lcd's getting better (still too expensive and not flexible due to "native" resolution), but the quality of non AG flat CRTs are such that the AG doesn't offer THAT much more for the price.

no you're not . . .. everyone ELSE is
(for a change)
:roll:





J/King (about the 'for a change')

CRTs are NOT going away. IN FACT expect a NEW breed of CRT - MUCH smaller footprint and lighter than the present models.

You can have your LCDs.

edit:
and Nebor, you'd better work on your predicting skilz. CRTs are here to stay.
:roll:

 

[apoppin]

The CRT is NOT dead!

LCD TVs face fierce fight from new tech CRTs

RESEARCH COMPANY Meko said that LG-Philips will show off a shallow depth cathode ray tube (CRT) for TVs, while other giants such as Samsung are also identifying opportunities in the technology.

According to Bob Raikes, MD of Meko, his firm's forecasts show that CRT tech will remain the dominant technology in TVs for Europe. He said: "Even in 2007 we see CRTs outselling flat panel TVs by around three to one".

It's performance that's the key, it appears. Flat panel TV makers, like their counterparts in the LCD monitor business, still need to do a great deal to match the performance of the 100 year old CRT technology.

So there
:roll:

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: apoppin


The CRT is NOT dead!

LCD TVs face fierce fight from new tech CRTs

RESEARCH COMPANY Meko said that LG-Philips will show off a shallow depth cathode ray tube (CRT) for TVs, while other giants such as Samsung are also identifying opportunities in the technology.

According to Bob Raikes, MD of Meko, his firm's forecasts show that CRT tech will remain the dominant technology in TVs for Europe. He said: "Even in 2007 we see CRTs outselling flat panel TVs by around three to one".

It's performance that's the key, it appears. Flat panel TV makers, like their counterparts in the LCD monitor business, still need to do a great deal to match the performance of the 100 year old CRT technology.

So there
:roll:

This discussion is about LCD's for computers, not how LCD-TV still hasn't really caught on in the television market. CRT's position is still very strong in the TV market...

So there!

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: apoppin


The CRT is NOT dead!

LCD TVs face fierce fight from new tech CRTs

RESEARCH COMPANY Meko said that LG-Philips will show off a shallow depth cathode ray tube (CRT) for TVs, while other giants such as Samsung are also identifying opportunities in the technology.

According to Bob Raikes, MD of Meko, his firm's forecasts show that CRT tech will remain the dominant technology in TVs for Europe. He said: "Even in 2007 we see CRTs outselling flat panel TVs by around three to one".

It's performance that's the key, it appears. Flat panel TV makers, like their counterparts in the LCD monitor business, still need to do a great deal to match the performance of the 100 year old CRT technology.

So there
:roll:

This discussion is about LCD's for computers, not how LCD-TV still hasn't really caught on in the television market. CRT's position is still very strong in the TV market...

So there!

The ONLY ones predicting the iminent demise of CRTs are LCD manufacturers.

EVENTUALLY, the LCD will overtake the CRT(unless the CRT can get really thin) . . . . but it's nowhere iminent.

edit:

need more links?


Take a look at new CRT technology:

Samsung's Vixlim

LG Philips Cyber-Tube



:roll:

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: apoppin


The CRT is NOT dead!

LCD TVs face fierce fight from new tech CRTs

RESEARCH COMPANY Meko said that LG-Philips will show off a shallow depth cathode ray tube (CRT) for TVs, while other giants such as Samsung are also identifying opportunities in the technology.

According to Bob Raikes, MD of Meko, his firm's forecasts show that CRT tech will remain the dominant technology in TVs for Europe. He said: "Even in 2007 we see CRTs outselling flat panel TVs by around three to one".

It's performance that's the key, it appears. Flat panel TV makers, like their counterparts in the LCD monitor business, still need to do a great deal to match the performance of the 100 year old CRT technology.

So there
:roll:

Sony still makes Trinitron TVs.

TVs and computer CRTs are two separate markets.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: apoppin

The ONLY ones predicting the iminent demise of CRTs are LCD manufacturers.

EVENTUALLY, the LCD will overtake the CRT(unless the CRT can get really thin) . . . .but it's not iminent.

Pretty much all CRT manufacturers make LCD's too; it's not like these new LCD manufacturers came out of nowhere to oust the CRT makers!

Yes, CRT has a big leg-up in terms of how long they've had to refine the manufacturing process, but even that advantage is disappearing because of the drastic size difference (and amount of materials necessary) in the production of LCD's.

Do you not think it is better to produce screens that produce less waste and no harmful waste?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: apoppin

The ONLY ones predicting the iminent demise of CRTs are LCD manufacturers.

EVENTUALLY, the LCD will overtake the CRT(unless the CRT can get really thin) . . . .but it's not iminent.

Pretty much all CRT manufacturers make LCD's too; it's not like these new LCD manufacturers came out of nowhere to oust the CRT makers!

Yes, CRT has a big leg-up in terms of how long they've had to refine the manufacturing process, but even that advantage is disappearing because of the drastic size difference (and amount of materials necessary) in the production of LCD's.

Do you not think it is better to produce screens that produce less waste and no harmful waste?

Sure, when black is really black and ghosting finally disappears.

Take a look at these new CRT technologies :


Samsung's Vixlim

LG Philips Cyber-Tube

You don't think they will filter through to CRT monitors?


i do

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024This discussion is about LCD's for computers, not how LCD-TV still hasn't really caught on in the television market. CRT's position is still very strong in the TV market...

what's really funny is while i just couldn't pull the trigger on an lcd for my pc, my tv is a lcd, lol....

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024This discussion is about LCD's for computers, not how LCD-TV still hasn't really caught on in the television market. CRT's position is still very strong in the TV market...

what's really funny is while i just couldn't pull the trigger on an lcd for my pc, my tv is a lcd, lol....

Let's be perfectly honest here Cainam... When have you ever been considered normal?? (just kidding)

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024


Do you not think it is better to produce screens that produce less waste and no harmful waste?

Sure, when black is really black and ghosting finally disappears.

When black is really black it will help the environment? Huh?

I think you're overplaying the issue of blacks/whites on LCD's based on certain screens... Many LCD's can display beautiful looking blacks.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024This discussion is about LCD's for computers, not how LCD-TV still hasn't really caught on in the television market. CRT's position is still very strong in the TV market...

what's really funny is while i just couldn't pull the trigger on an lcd for my pc, my tv is a lcd, lol....

Let's be perfectly honest here Cainam... When have you ever been considered normal?? (just kidding)

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024


Do you not think it is better to produce screens that produce less waste and no harmful waste?

Sure, when black is really black and ghosting finally disappears.

When black is really black it will help the environment? Huh?

I think you're overplaying the issue of blacks/whites on LCD's based on certain screens... Many LCD's can display beautiful looking blacks.

I think you're overplaying the enviroment issue . . . .

. .. . i think there are more serious pollution problems that might need addressing first. . . . PLUS, the innards of the CRT are recycleable.
:roll:

 

[knyghtbyte]

flat panels are a stable technology, meaning they might improve to a certain degree, but they are not going to alter radically,......whereas a processor, graphics card, etc are unstable in that they improve in leaps and bounds every so often.............

flat panels could easily be improved with current technology to have stupidly fast response times, the manufacturers however know that they can span it out and take a few years to get there, each year they improve a lil bit, so people who want the fastest go out and buy a new one,......then again in a year buy another one and so on......
also the costs in producing flat panels is nowadays a lot lot cheaper than people assume, the creation technologies are superior to a few years ago which means far less rejected panels due to dead pixels...
in other words the companies are definitely dropiing CRT, not because there isnt demand, but because they cannot make any real money on them nowadays, u any idea how difficult it is to accurately form the glass without defect of any kind for a CRT? a lot harder than it is to create an LCD with no dead pixels!

personally i prefer a CRT for gaming, but prefer an LCD for surfing and chatting and general work......
there will most likely be professional quality CRTs still made for the designers, and its possible a cheap enough model or so will still exist for gamers, but dont hold your breath on it being as cheap as it is now....lol (possibly Toshiba will stand up to the challenge, they still make normal CRT TV's and i understand will continue to)



EDIT: ok, might help if i wasnt so tired and realised there was more than one page to this thread when i posted...lol...seems some of what i've said has been said already....hehe..i do apologise for repeating, altho unintentionally
btw, just like to say something where someone mentioned about the LCD panels being rejected due to too many dead pixels, in regards to what i said about CRT glass tubes, many glass tubes are trashed and melted down again to be reformed due to defects, its like making a massively thick eye glass, has to have perfectly uniform focus to allow the projected picture from the guns to display without distortion.....the profit margin on CRTs is almost neglible nowadays to companies.....apart from poor quality cheapo 15in ones that end up being sold to mugs in cheap boxed computer packages in shops...lol

 

[housecat]

environment? pfft!
... i dont like to breathe!


my current tv is a 32" wega.. my next tv is a LCD no doubt.
try moving twice up and down flights of stairs, then getting married and moving your tube tv and hers into a new place yet again.. you'll wish you spent that $3,500 on a LCD tv (or something else a bit lighter).

also, be extremely nice for tv/room rearrangement.. its a fantasy for me to have everything lcd (or similar).. i think most everyone will vote the same with their dollar too.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: knyghtbyte
also the costs in producing flat panels is nowadays a lot lot cheaper than people assume, the creation technologies are superior to a few years ago which means far less rejected panels due to dead pixels...

i think you're being a bit optimistic here.. there's a reason a 20" lcd costs a $800 an up..

for example, a typical 15" lcd supports a res of 1024x768. a color lcd takes 3 "sub" pixels. multiply 1024 columns by 768 rows by 3 subpixels, and you have 2,359,296 transistors etched onto the glass. 19" & higher with 1600x1200 require 5,760,000 transisters. a few dead pixels and.. trash. last i read (and this is within the last year or so) about 40% of the displays are rejected - and this of course directly reflects the prices as consumers have to pay for the bad ones as well.

in other words the companies are definitely dropiing CRT, not because there isnt demand, but because they cannot make any real money on them nowadays, u any idea how difficult it is to accurately form the glass without defect of any kind for a CRT? a lot harder than it is to create an LCD with no dead pixels!

did you know lcd's require 2 pieces of polarized glass?

 

[acx]

LCD factories are springing up all over the place in China for 15" and 17" panels. In a year or two when these factories reach capacity, mainstream LCD prices will plummet.

 

[neo229]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
For the average user, the benefits of LCD monitors (small size and light weight, excellent brightness, lack of flicker) far outweigh the negatives (fixed resolution, worse black level, low response time, less accurate color reproduction). CRTs seem to be rapidly becoming a specialty item.

I know several people who think the text is too small on LCD flat panels at the native resolution. With CRTs, the correct move is to drop down the resolution making everything bigger. With LCDs this results in a horribly scaled picture. The alternative is to bump up the font size which makes the image look weird.

This is a big issue for those people.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: neo229

Originally posted by: Matthias99
For the average user, the benefits of LCD monitors (small size and light weight, excellent brightness, lack of flicker) far outweigh the negatives (fixed resolution, worse black level, low response time, less accurate color reproduction). CRTs seem to be rapidly becoming a specialty item.

I know several people who think the text is too small on LCD flat panels at the native resolution. With CRTs, the correct move is to drop down the resolution making everything bigger. With LCDs this results in a horribly scaled picture. The alternative is to bump up the font size which makes the image look weird.

This is a big issue for those people.

glasses and/or laser surgery...if their eyes are really that bad that they cannot see desktop LCD resolutions, they definately wouldn't be able to tell that there is terrible tearing when running off the native resolution. That and the LCDs main advantage is supposed to supposed to be with super sharp text and MUCH easier on the eyes. I've got a 15" UXGA laptop display that is stunningly sharp, desktop 15" LCDs have a native resolution of 1024x764, a tiny resolution compared to 1600x1200 (ie larger text). Besides, if they are that blind they can use the magnifying feature included in windows.

 

[CaiNaM]

lol.. i'm sure "they" are pleased to know you deciding for them what they like and tellig them how they are allowed to use "their" pcs..