Ballistics ?

[BadNewsBears]

WHat is kick measured in? Like 7mm Remington Mag, compared to 270 Winchester?

 

[BadNewsBears]

I need to know!

 

[Mookow]

<< WHat is kick measured in? Like 7mm Remington Mag, compared to 270 Winchester? >>



Thats not really ballistics. Ballistics is concerned with the bullet while in flight, at impact, and post impact. Kick depends a lot on the gun. Even if its chambered for the same cartridge, it can vary. A 1 pound 44Mag could probably be made, but the kick would be ugly, just because the gun would be traveling backwards 3x faster than a 3 pound 44Magnum, all other things being equal. For rifles, there is the consideration of weight and recoil pad. Dont forget about muzzle brakes either... basically, there isnt any ONE answer to the question of how much recoil you will feel. For example, most people that have fired a Barrett 50 cal rifle say that the recoil is like that of a 12 gauge. However, the 50BMG round has much more powder than the 12 gauge.

 

[Tominator]

<< WHat is kick measured in? Like 7mm Remington Mag, compared to 270 Winchester? >>



Dang! I forget the term. The military came up with a measurement for what we know as 'kick.'

Ballistics are a completely different subject...

 

[Russ]

Mookow,

Good explanation. There's also barrel length and balance to consider. I wonder about this, though:



<< A 1 pound 44Mag could probably be made, but the kick would be ugly, just because the gun would be traveling backwards 3x faster than a 3 pound 44Magnum >>



It doesn't seem to me that the recoil could be 3x greater just because the weapon was 1/3 the weight. I don't know how to explain it technically, but my sense is that it wouldn't be that linear.

Russ, NCNE

 

[911paramedic]

you are talking about foot pounds of force I think. Don't know where you find that info though...

 

[Tominator]

It's a little more complicated than that.

It has to do ith the sharpness and length of time the force is applied.

This formula was part of what was used to come up with the .223 Remington/SS109 Nato.

Small Arms Ballistics

 

[Mookow]

<< Mookow,

Good explanation. There's also barrel length and balance to consider. I wonder about this, though:



<< A 1 pound 44Mag could probably be made, but the kick would be ugly, just because the gun would be traveling backwards 3x faster than a 3 pound 44Magnum >>



It doesn't seem to me that the recoil could be 3x greater just because the weapon was 1/3 the weight. I don't know how to explain it technically, but my sense is that it wouldn't be that linear.

Russ, NCNE >>



I didnt say the recoil was linear, its just that the speed of the gun is linear (going from physics).
total momentum before = total momentum after
0=0
thus the total momentum afterwards = 0
the equation for momentum is: momentum=m*v
so, the speed of the bullet times its mass must be equal to the speed of the gun times its mass.
Going from that, I think the speed of the gun should be linear. But, you dont feel the speed of the gun, you feel its kinetic energy, or, rather more specifically, you feel the impulse due to its kinetic energy.
kinetic energy is = 1/2*m*v^2
I dont feel like getting into impulse, mainly because I would have to look it all up to double check. In any event, I can say that the gun's initial speed (before it really hits your hand) scales like so: v=K/m, where K is some constant.

 

[Tominator]

Handgun Ballistics

 

[BadNewsBears]

Sorry all. I merely used 'ballistics' to bring in some of the physics people. I knew its didt really apply to that before the post. Say right now I hunt with 7mm Remington Mag. I know how that feels. What would I feel from a .270 winchester??

 

[Mookow]

<< Sorry all. I merely used 'ballistics' to bring in some of the physics people. I knew its didt really apply to that before the post. Say right now I hunt with 7mm Remington Mag. I know how that feels. What would I feel from a .270 winchester?? >>



Look online for how much powder (in grains) goes into each average round. That should give you a rough basis of comparision, assuming the rifles you plan to use each are about the same in weight, length, etc.

 

[Tominator]

<< What would I feel from a .270 winchester?? >>



Maybe half the kick of your magnum....

 

[BadNewsBears]

Maybe 12-Gauge shotgun ish?

 

[BadNewsBears]

ANyone? No fire arms guru's?

 

[Prong]

Before I can answer your question *exactly*, I need to know what grain bullet you're shooting. Is it 139-140gr, 150, 160-162, or 175 grain. Factory loads or hand loads? I'd also need to know the rifle's weight. A rough estimate is that the 7 recoils about 22-25 ft. lbs and a .270 runs around 17-20. This is assuming an 8lb rifle. The reason the figure can vary is because rifle weight, bullet weight, and powder weight all factor into the equation.

 

[Tominator]

If the above sites could not answer his question then it cannot be answered.

The differences in the perceived recoil have too many variables. The main one being the size and stature of the individual doing the shooting. What might be a huge difference to one individual might be nothing to another.

 

[MadRat]

You measure force from the bullet in foot-pounds or Newtons, depending on which measure of unit you use for your measurement. Take the exit velocity of the bullet times its weight to determine approximately the "kick" of the gun when its fired.

Your .270 comes in many different load types, from light-partial to hot. There are also different cartridges in .270, either Howell or Winchester. We'd have to know which ammunition you intend to use before we can tell you the kick. Generally the .270 is somewhere between the .30-06 and the .300Win rifles.

 

[rmblam]

<< Generally the .270 is somewhere between the .30-06 and the .300Win rifles.
>>



I'd agree with that, although I'd say that it "feels" closer to the .300. I'd rather shoot a .270 over a .30-06 as the recoil is greater enough to get me anticipate it and "jerk" while pulling the trigger. I am much more consistent shooting a .270, but I don't gun hunt enough to buy one and retire my -06.

The 7mm I shot felt pretty close to my .30-06 in recoil force. I gave myself a nice black eye shooting my .30-06 as a teen. I kind of like the idea behind those rubber scope rings, but Ive never done that again to warrant changing scopes.

 

[BadNewsBears]

I believe i said it was the .270 Winchester. WHat about the 270 WSM .Brand new cartridge. Anyone shoot it?

 

[BadNewsBears]

Why doesnt anyone respond to my threads?

 

[jbod]

I don't know, but a 12 ga. 3 1/2 inch turkey shot will put a major hurtin' on ya! Most kick I have ever felt in a gun.

 

[CalamitousSoul]

If a tree falls in the forest, could you hear it?

 

[BadNewsBears]

Why thank you Cal soul I appreciated your comment

 

[Bozo Galora]

a 30-06 with a 168 gr bullet has 22 ft/lbs recoil velocity at the buttstock

a .458 Win Magnum 500Gr soild has 55 Ft/lbs energy

a .460 Weatherby Magnum 500Gr soft point has 105 ft/lbs recoil energy

Edit: perceived kick is primarily based on stock geometry, comb. pull, tang etc. and weight of shooter

Edit 2: E = .5 (Wr / 32) (Wb x MV + 4700 x Wp / 7000 x Wr)(squared).

Where E = recoil Energy in ft. lbs., Wr = Weight of rifle in pounds, Wb = Weight of bullet in grains,
MV = Muzzle Velocity of bullet in feet-per-second, Wp = Weight of powder in grains.